| Guys for the geranium debate here it is: http://www.ehow.com/facts_7740078_poisonous-geraniums.html Hum Elen was not a dog or a cat so yeah... |
   |
| I'm rather certain that Elen poisened herself with the petal, in not, it wouldn't have been shown. The death of Reiji wasn't that clear and it probably wasn't supposed to be either. But it's quite possible Inferno is behind it. Your explanation about 3 differen't scenes and 3 different times seems legal enough, but this won't change much in my oppinion. Either way, she will still poison herself in the end. I think this was a perfect ending! Each death was just so meaningfull! |
| This is amazing. Thank you! |
 |
| The gun shot may have been a "silent warning", (eg episode 20) saying I know where you are. Reij may be alive afterall. Right :O |
| all I have to say it was a great anime :) |
 |
vexium said: WOW! I'm shocked by the responses you guys have to this ending. Let me clear some things up: regardless if Ein lives or dies (seems pretty clear she's alive and Zwei is dead at the end, just going off what we see in the animation), Zwei DESERVED to die. It's surprising to see so many of you befuddled over the fact that Zwei died so promptly. I cannot be more concise: Zwei DESERVED to die. Hell, he even said repeatedly he wanted to die to atone for his sins. Listen, listen: Zwei did the following: - Shot and nearly killed Ein - Massacred countless people (including Stone's mother and child) in the name of Inferno, which he secretly hated - Massacred countless people in the name of Claudia, who he later ends up hating just as much as Inferno - Abandons Claudia, the person who grants him freedom and a chance at life away from Inferno (however deceptively), leaving her to die at the hands of Inferno - Abandons Lizzie, the person who keeps him sane during his time in Inferno and away from Ein - Abandons Cal (this is the big one, folks), who then becomes just like him, successfully fulfilling his worst nightmare - KILLS CAL BECAUSE HE CANT ESCAPE HIS LIFE OF KILLING TO SURVIVE - Slaughters the remaining wannabe Phantoms, who he knows are also innocent people that were tormented just like him ------------ As for a quick logical explanation as to why Zwei dies and Ein doesn't, it was clear ever since McGuire personally called upon Zwei to be Cal's mentor that Zwei was far more intertwined in the internal affairs of Inferno that Ein ever was. I would go so far as to make the claim that Ein was never revealed by Scythe Master as being alive to Inferno, and to that end, wise as he was, Scythe Master kept her a secret from everyone in Inferno after his return. Yes, Drei is a loudmouth, but she's also under Scythe's careful watch. Yes, Lizzie sees Ein, but she's also the only person from Inferno to see Ein again on-screen before immediately dying. It's clear from her conversation with Zwei towards the end that she doesn't plan on revealing all her reconnaissance to Inferno and that that has been the case for some time. So again, it makes perfect sense why McGuire would be looking to kill Zwei after Scythe fails to execute him and knows very well that someone killed Scythe. Zwei was a major traitor in McGuire's eyes to Inferno as the right-hand man of Claudia, whereas Ein was merely Scythe's puppet (and Scythe, again, was reintroduced to Inferno with praise). -------------- So go ahead and tell me Zwei didn't deserve to die, that Inferno didn't have every reason to find and kill him, that this ending wasn't entirely appropriate. Damn, to think I was thoroughly dissatisfied with the genre switch that took place in Part 3 and was only relieved by this apropos ending episode. Meanwhile, you folks are busy ranting about it! Ha! While I'm here chatting, I might as well mention that that transition to the high school setting was just pathetic. The switch-ups in the intro and ending sequences were devastatingly girlish and lost the beautifully haunting touch the original intro-outro bits had. Really, the only thing that made up for Part 3's pitiful high school melodramatic squabbling was the bitter finale and utter realization that Zwei simply DIDN'T DESERVE TO LIVE. HE NEEDED TO DIE. HE FUCKED UP BIG TIME - HE LET CAL BECOME THE MONSTER HE NEVER WANTED TO BE, AND HE DID IT BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID OF HIMSELF, EIN, AND HIS OWN ACTIONS. This ending could not have been better. Again, I just wish Part 3 had been a touch more graceful, mafia-oriented, and action-adventure-styled (I mean, come on, what happened to following Ein and Zwei through their daring escape through Inferno?) Overall, I give Phantom ~ Requiem of the Phantom the following score: 8/10 for pt. 1 (up until Ein/Zwei nearly die), 9/10 for pt. 2 (up until Cal is taken), and 6.5/10 for pt. 3, rounding up to an 8/10 overall. I really want to see this series remade into a live-action movie or TV series. It has a great plot, incredible characters, and exceptional thematic elements. The tragedy is that the animation here wasn't too unique and nor was the atmosphere or focus of Part 3, leaving a bland, high school immaturity that is eradicated by a properly poetic mafioso finish. I don't know, man... Even though you bring up some very valid points, a big part of me still wanted for Zwei and Ein to "live happily ever after". I actually didn't like Zwei in the first part of the series, but then his relationship with Cal in the second part made me really appreciate his character (he didn't want her to walk the same path as him, and he didn't know she had survived the explosion, otherwise he would have never abandoned her). Yes, he did kill a lot of people, but with the exception of Stone's wife and little kid (which I never forgave him for), they were all mafiosos and gangsters. And even though in your view Inferno had their reasons for wanting him dead, when did they actually act on moral and principles? Zwei was a traitor, but he was out of the picture and had all intentions to stay out. He held no importance to Inferno, so I really don't see any reason for them to bother so much in order to find and kill him. So, yeah, the ending did make sense, but even if it had ended the other way around, I think it would have been a fine and adequate conclusion to the series. |
| Honestly I think they both died. Though I don't know if they assassinated or just Reiji and Elen committed suicide. I think Elen died too because she looks like she died at the end. Someone brought up a point that the grass next to her neck was had a reddish hue. I hope she didn't kill Reiji because that would go against everything she said she lived for after met Reiji. If they both died, though shocking, I think it was their "faith" or "karma" because they knew they would have to face death one day for what they've done. I don't mean it in a spiritual way, but they knew there were consequences for their actions. It's not like they would be forgiven so easily, especially not by Inferno. It's just how things work, there was bound to some kind of reaction to their actions and it looks like they were able to accept it. I would of been happy if they both lived happily but that would be running away and rejecting their past and crimes which I think goes against this series' theme. The "oh they didn't exist at all after that they were shot and fell in the ocean" theories are funny because that would be completely inconsistent with the plot after that especially with Cal's role in the series. |
penguindrum264Jun 14, 2013 1:59 PM
 |
| I originally started watching this anime because it's categorized under the "thriller" genre, which I happen to be a big fan of. However, it never really felt like a thriller to me. Although I felt like it was a disappointment as a thriller, I ended up watching it to the very end for Reiji and Elen. This is the first time I actually cared about a relationship between two characters in a very, very long time. This gets a solid 9 from me. OriginANIME said: Its up to you if you want to read it or not. I just made this for people who are having trouble understanding the ending. No one is right, and no one is wrong in my opinion. Its all speculation. Here is a copy and paste of my blog entry explaining the ending. (my take on it with pictures, quotes, and evidence) I agree with nearly everything you said. The ending really confused me, but you made a whole lot of sense out of it with your post. Pretty much everything you said made sense, and I really believe that's what happened myself as well. I didn't even know those flowers contained a deadly poison until you said that! However, there's just one thing I must disagree with you on: OriginANIME said: This is what I was referring to by saying "Even Elen knew it wouldn't work out even though she wanted it to.". (the quote below) "Please go to hell first. I still want to stay with him for a little longer." - Elen (episode 26 right after she shot Scythe Master) I interpreted that in a completely different way. Elen said "Please go to hell first. I still want to stay with him for a little longer," however, the part that you should be focusing on is not "a little longer", but "go to hell first". She told Scythe Master to go to hell "first", followed by her saying she wants to stay with Reiji "a little longer". I don't see this as an implication that she felt she couldn't continue living a happy life with Reiji, rather, it implies that she believes she will go to hell too. That's why she tells him to go to hell "first", because she wasn't ready to die and did not want to throw away a future spent with Reiji. If you recall near the beginning of this arc, she was shown in the chapel praying, where she explicitly stated she was trying to atone for her sins. Reiji asked her who she was trying to seek forgiveness from, and she told him "To God directly, because I'll meet with him one day." I interpreted that as her feeling guilty of the countless murders she had committed, so she turned to religion in hopes that it would help her wash away all of her unwanted memories of serving Scythe Master, to help her enjoy living her new life with only good memories of her time spent with Reiji. After Cal showed up, their "dream" ended, and they were forced to give up the peaceful life that they worked so hard to obtain. After that series of events, she once again found herself killing people in order to protect Reiji, which revived and added to the old memories she was trying to forget. This culminated with her showdown against Scythe Master. She began the arc by saying she wanted to atone for her sins and seek forgiveness from God, but after the firefight, she said "go to to hell first", which implies that she believes she will go to hell. The reason she said that is because she realized that she would never truly be able to escape her past. This is the reason she said "go to hell first". drakere said: This is just a stupid addition and distasteful addition to the anime just to add a "shock" factor to the ending of the anime This never happens in the VN. Rest assured, they both live happily live ever after. Seriously, Zwei, an infamous assassin and survived impossible life and death situations and who can dodge bullets like dodging rain in a storm, is somehow found in the middle of who knows, Mongolia and caught off guard? Yeah right. Just a extremely bad way to shock viewers. Nothing more, nothing less. Oh man... if that's true, I have to read the VN. |
| Some parts of this post may be exaggerated. |
| This thread brings me nostalgia. |
 |
| good anime :D |
| Cty Best mid |
| loved thank you very much! helped me a bunch lol! |
| Like robots? Then watch getter robot :D |
| This thread was awesome in so many levels. Even though those are all speculations, OriginANIME, you did an excellent job. I enjoyed this anime quite a bit, I even watched it all in one day. I just couldn't stop. Ending was like a ice cold water on hot steel for me. 22nd minute in 26th episode was so fu*ked up that it made me wanna kill the one who put that scene there. But, after reading all of this, I relaxed and now I can let it go a bit. Thanks. |
| Ad Astra Per Aspera |
| Thank you SO MUCH for the explanation. |
Live, Laugh, Love.  |
DouLou said: I just want to say that the reason I liked the ending is because Zwei really did deserve to die. [ ... ] The series also hammers home how Zwei "kills to survive of his own free will". (And just for extra measure, he says it himself at the end "I will kill to survive"). [ ... ] Zwei represents a character that deserves his fate. I'd have to disagree with that. I saw Zwei as a character who didn't deserve to die. Yes, he killed people, but that doesn't inherently mean he deserves to die. You must remember that Zwei isn't just some psychopath who likes to go around and murder people. His disposition fluctuates a bit; in the beginning, he's played like a card, but later tries to escape. However, the one thing that never changes is his kill-or-be-killed attitude. He's not killing just for the sake of killing, he's killing for the sake of his own survival, which is something that I just can't condemn him for. You only get one chance at life, and whether or not it's morally questionable to kill, I have to respect him for persevering and refusing to let go of that one and only chance. One thing that I will never understand is why people act like the lives of women and children are more important than the lives of any other man. You went out of your way to explicitly mention the scene where he kills a mother and her child, but I must ask how that can possibly be more of a sin than killing a man? That comment implies the assumption that the life of a man is of less worth than the life of a woman or child. Is death somehow not as grave for men as it is for women or children? Shouldn't we be concerned with the safety and well-being of all life, rather than just the mother and her offspring? _ |
LarasoJan 14, 2014 12:08 AM
| Some parts of this post may be exaggerated. |
Kadouzeki said: I don't quite understand why so many people are saying they weren't together until the sunset scene. They're saying that because they were never truly together in peace until the end of Scythe Master. They had been running from Inferno all the way up until that point. |
| Some parts of this post may be exaggerated. |
| Well...... 1. These last couple episodes far eclipsed thier predecessors in terms of character development, pathos, and script. Where was this kind of stuff earlier??? 2. Cal got much more interesting toward the end (couldn't stand her part in the series earlier), but her shooting arguably the coolest cat in the whole series (Lizzie) was hard to stomach. Forseeable, but wish she could have played a more pivotal role in some creative ending. Cal's emo reversal toward Reiji upon dying....spare me. 3. Final battle scene with the six Asian gowns lol was nauseatingly cliche, however the way Reiji takes down the two in the church was maybe the highlight of the episode. This is the kind of intelligent fighting that should have been pervasive throughout the whole series. 4. Ending. J.C. Where to begin... Nothing but cheap shock-value, forcibly inserted that completely contradicted the themes of the series--namely, redemption, reestablishment of memory/identity, loyalty to partners (not masters), and most importantly, the CONTINUED struggle for life under insurmountable odds. Allowance of some geezer to cheap shot him from a carriage violates all of those. Much as I cringe at their murderous past, they were in fact SLAVES to Inferno--kill or be killed. Furthermore, I don't subscribe to the atonement argument to excuse a credit run bullshit ending, however 'real' or 'deserved' it might be. It might feel warm and fuzzy after what they did, but that doesn't make it free from contrivance. I would have rather seen the creators turn it on its head with happy ending just as an act of flippancy to anime predictability and mediocrity. Instead we get an ending with infinite possible interpretations, each of which is plagued with inconsistencies. Therefore, I say **** the last two minutes. But the one great thing is that it was so bad and so short, it makes it easy to completely forget. LOL. Still...a damn good series. |
DouluoJan 24, 2014 2:16 PM
OriginANIME said: Its up to you if you want to read it or not. I just made this for people who are having trouble understanding the ending. No one is right, and no one is wrong in my opinion. Its all speculation. Here is a copy and paste of my blog entry explaining the ending. (my take on it with pictures, quotes, and evidence) I know that this is a very old thread but I have a question for you. You say you dont think Erin killed Reiji. Well bullet casings tend to end up where the bullet was shot from. The casing was in the grass right by the leaves where Erin was, suggesting that she killed him as they both wanted. Which brings me to another point, if this was the case, wouldnt it make more sense for erin to kill herself right after killing reiji. They both wanted to die after all. Care to explain those 2 points? (Im just trying to understand the ending a little better. |
Defective_Minus said: OriginANIME said: Its up to you if you want to read it or not. I just made this for people who are having trouble understanding the ending. No one is right, and no one is wrong in my opinion. Its all speculation. Here is a copy and paste of my blog entry explaining the ending. (my take on it with pictures, quotes, and evidence) I know that this is a very old thread but I have a question for you. You say you dont think Erin killed Reiji. Well bullet casings tend to end up where the bullet was shot from. The casing was in the grass right by the leaves where Erin was, suggesting that she killed him as they both wanted. Which brings me to another point, if this was the case, wouldnt it make more sense for erin to kill herself right after killing reiji. They both wanted to die after all. Care to explain those 2 points? (Im just trying to understand the ending a little better. I believe the guy passing by Reiji on the carriage symbolized a future event of someone from Inferno killing him. None of these events actually happened as they showed. I noticed this anime used a lot of foreshadowing and symbolizing, so it would make sense. (there would also be no reason for the creator to add the carriage dude passing by if he had no real role) To add onto what you're asking, I don't believe Erin was the one who killed Reiji because, as it would make a little sense, it would have gave no purpose for the guy passing by on the carriage. I feel the safest outcome is to use all evidence in front of us, which would be: 1. Inferno killed Reiji. (the guy passing by shoots Reiji therefore leaving a bullet shell on the grass where he was standing) 2. Eren says shes made enough memories. In episode 26 she mentioned how she believed great things wont last forever and that she just wants to live for " a little longer". 3. She killed herself. I noticed the ending tried emphasizing 3 main things (meaning they must have played a huge role): 1. the missing flower pedal 2. the bullet shell 3. "transparent" (Eren disappearing in the credits symbolizing she is no longer a live) Again, just my 2 cents. |
funkotakuJul 13, 2014 10:33 AM
 |
OriginANIME said: Defective_Minus said: I know that this is a very old thread but I have a question for you. You say you dont think Erin killed Reiji. Well bullet casings tend to end up where the bullet was shot from. The casing was in the grass right by the leaves where Erin was, suggesting that she killed him as they both wanted. Which brings me to another point, if this was the case, wouldnt it make more sense for erin to kill herself right after killing reiji. They both wanted to die after all. Care to explain those 2 points? (Im just trying to understand the ending a little better. I believe the guy passing by Reiji on the carriage symbolized a future event of someone from Inferno killing him. None of these events actually happened as they showed. I noticed this anime used a lot of foreshadowing and symbolizing, so it would make sense. (there would also be no reason for the creator to add the carriage dude passing by if he had no real role) To add onto what you're asking, I don't believe Erin was the one who killed Reiji because, as it would make a little sense, it would have gave no purpose for the guy passing by on the carriage. I feel the safest outcome is to use all evidence in front of us, which would be: 1. Inferno killed Reiji. (the guy passing by shoots Reiji therefore leaving a bullet shell on the grass where he was standing) 2. Eren says shes made enough memories. In episode 26 she mentioned how she believed great things wont last forever and that she just wants to live for " a little longer". 3. She killed herself. I noticed the ending tried emphasizing 3 main things (meaning they must have played a huge role): 1. the missing flower pedal 2. the bullet shell 3. "transparent" (Eren disappearing in the credits symbolizing she is no longer a live) Again, just my 2 cents. OriginANIME said: Defective_Minus said: I know that this is a very old thread but I have a question for you. You say you dont think Erin killed Reiji. Well bullet casings tend to end up where the bullet was shot from. The casing was in the grass right by the leaves where Erin was, suggesting that she killed him as they both wanted. Which brings me to another point, if this was the case, wouldnt it make more sense for erin to kill herself right after killing reiji. They both wanted to die after all. Care to explain those 2 points? (Im just trying to understand the ending a little better. I believe the guy passing by Reiji on the carriage symbolized a future event of someone from Inferno killing him. None of these events actually happened as they showed. I noticed this anime used a lot of foreshadowing and symbolizing, so it would make sense. (there would also be no reason for the creator to add the carriage dude passing by if he had no real role) To add onto what you're asking, I don't believe Erin was the one who killed Reiji because, as it would make a little sense, it would have gave no purpose for the guy passing by on the carriage. I feel the safest outcome is to use all evidence in front of us, which would be: 1. Inferno killed Reiji. (the guy passing by shoots Reiji therefore leaving a bullet shell on the grass where he was standing) 2. Eren says shes made enough memories. In episode 26 she mentioned how she believed great things wont last forever and that she just wants to live for " a little longer". 3. She killed herself. I noticed the ending tried emphasizing 3 main things (meaning they must have played a huge role): 1. the missing flower pedal 2. the bullet shell 3. "transparent" (Eren disappearing in the credits symbolizing she is no longer a live) Again, just my 2 cents. Yea I get what your saying. The only things that got me were 1. The bullet casing was actually in the field, by where erin was. 2. Erin smiled at reiji as he died, despite her saying numerous times that She lives only for Reiji. I dont think Erin would smile upon finding Reiji's dead body. 3. The carriage could have just been a way for the director to keep us from guessing the truth by covering up where the bullet came from. 4. This is the biggest one and the main reason I am skeptical of erin killing him. If the guy in the carriage truely did kill Raiji, then why did he just not kill erin also? That hasnt made since to me. 5. Also why do you think Erin waited a while before killing herself, instead of killing herself on the spot? 6. I agree with Erin killing herself, but there is something else that bothers me. She says "my memories of reiji are enough for me to live on". When you think about her saying that, then suicide doesnt make sense anymore. Some people also say Reiji offed himself but I think that is a little far fetched. iKnow this is all opinion and all but I hate when writers do this, this is like Code Geass ending but 10x more open. All we know is that Reiji most likely died. We dont truely know who killed him, how they found him, etc. It was the most anticlimatic death in the whole series. Should kinda expect it though considering this is an "Original Ending". The game had 3 different main endings. Non of these involved Reiji dying. 1. Cal dies (This is the one the anime is based off of but this one doesnt have reiji and eren dying in mongol, they just go to mongol and live together), Eren dies and Reiji and Cal live together, nobody dies and Reiji decides to help Mio out. They just added this ending for more drama which explains why there wasnt much build up or "epicness" to it. This is by far the darkest anime I have ever seen. Simply because it wasnt trying to be a dark anime like attack on titan, gantz, school days, etc. All it tried to do was be sort of realistic, and showed how dark the world is. i actually have to watch some light hearted stuff after watching and thinking about this anime a lot. I would give it a 10/10 but the whole last 3 minutes of it and then the thing with Cal and her emotional and physical growth dissapointed me, so I give it an 8 or 9. Also do you know where I could find the Visual Novels to buy? in english |
Defective_MinusJul 14, 2014 9:51 AM
| This series was freakin absolutely awesome until the very end. So i am going to forget how Cal died. Forget what happened to Reiji and forget the four petaled flower. Because WTF. Like for real. WTF. The last 2 episodes literally disappeared from my memory due to immense trauma. I will do you justice. Who needs interpretations when you can have a good ending? This is how it ended in my head (this is all my imagination and it is original, feel free to imagine the scenes that of how i imagined it to end): Cal and Reiji duels. Reiji slowly walks towards Cal while the music is playing while Cal shouts to him "What are you doing?" Reiji then picks up the pace as the song is almost over and as Cal draws out her gun on the last note of the song, Reiji full body embraces her and holds her there while her hand is holding the gun up high. Tears streaming down Cal's face as Reiji hugs her tightly repeating "Sorry, I am so so sorry." He grits his teeth with tears streaming down his face, "If you have to, then please kill me. I deserve it. I really thought you were killed in the explosion. If I had known... I would have looked to the ends of the Earth. I'm the worst, because of me, you have killed and killed. I am truly sorry that I abandoned you. I'd never have left if I hadn't thought you were dead." Cal, still with tears streaming down her face buries her face into Reiji's shoulder as she says "I love you Reiji, I have always wanted to be with you and will be your partner, we promised remember? Please don't leave me again." Reiji with his eyes closed whispers to her "Never, I promise will I ever leave you again." Suddenly Elen bursts through the church doors, "Hurry! Scythe Master is here with 6 of his new creations, new Phantoms, with no emotion and without a will of their own." Cal and Reiji each picks up a gun. [Normal Route] They kill off all the 6 Phantoms that Scythe Master brought with him ending with Elen and Reiji along with Cal shooting the Scythe Master multiple times as his last phantom puppet is shot down, "This can't be... my perfect creations can't lose to these emotional pieces of trash!!!" *BANG* *BANG* *BANG* Scythe Master falls back with 3 holes in his head while a feather slowly lands onto his palm. Elen and Reiji then start living together happily. Later scene reveals that Lizzie whom was thought to be killed by Cal actually survived that shot and she later forgives Cal when Cal breaks down in tears begging for her forgiveness. Then they live together happily reminding Cal of the good old days when she lived with Judy. =The End= [Harem Route] They kill off all the 6 Phantoms that Scythe Master brought with him ending with Elen and Reiji along with Cal shooting the Scythe Master multiple times as his last phantom puppet is shot down, "This can't be... my perfect creations can't lose to these emotional pieces of trash!!!" *BANG* *BANG* *BANG* Scythe Master falls back with 3 holes in his head while a feather slowly lands onto his palm. Elen and Reiji then start living together happily with Cal while Mio comes over everyday to hang out with Reiji. Cal makes up with Mio and they both fight everyday over who should cook for Reiji and who gets to feed him while Reiji sighs with Elen giggling watching those two both shoving their spoons into Reiji's mouth. The ending scene shows Reiji sleeping on his bed with Cal and Mio on either sides of him each getting an arm while Elen lies on top of him with her face resting on his chest, slowly fading out with all three of them smiling in their sleep. =The End= [Yuri Route] After defeating the 6 phantoms, Reiji is injured by several bullets, and Elen has a knife wound and Cal lies infront of the Scythe Master hands over a bullet wound to her shoulder. Scythe Master slowly pulls out two of his special pistols and points one at Cal while the other one aimed at Elen. Scythe Master throws back his head and laughs into the sky, "HAHAHAHAHA!!! You fools! You think you can win? You're nothing but my creations, my failed lab rats. DIE!!!" As the Scythe Master pulls the trigger for the pistol pointing at Cal first, Reiji musters all the strength that is left in his body and uses his own body to intercept the bullet that would've killed Cal then continues to also intecept the bullet fired from Scythe Master's 2nd gun that is directed at Elen. As Reiji's lifeless body thuds to the ground, both of the girls scream out his name, "REIJII!!!!" Their faces furious with tears, each grabbing the nearest pistol to them and both shooting the Scythe Master in the head at the same time. *BANG* *BANG* -- 3 Months Later -- Cal and Elen have started living together. They swore to always be with each other forever and will protect each other until their last breath. Cal cooks while Elen does the laundry. They both loved Reiji as well as the most precious things to him, and since they both are the most precious things to him, they love each other more than anything. It ends with Cal sleeping in the same bed as Elen in an tight embrace with chests pressed together, both smiling sweetly into their dreams. =The End= Any of those 3 works for me and they all allow me to sleep in peace at night. Please feel free to use this as your personal ending if you want. Remember, everything is my own opinion so please do not detest me for my imagination. |
| "No one knows what the future holds. That's why its potential is infinite.” - Okabe Rintarou "El Psy Congroo." Kirino Kyousake Picture  |
| You are right, after watching it again, I saw that a petal of the flower was taken, so Elen must have killed herself... =/ |
 |
| These were on the character bio's on mal and pretty much explains it She dies by eating a petal of one of the many flowers and because its poison is deadly, she falls and then dies along with Rejii. At the end, when Reiji and Eren finally set out to find her past and end up in Mongolia in a field of Oxytropis flowers, an unidentified assassin kills Reiji with a silenced gun, and he collapses silently to the ground. Ein then appears to commit suicide by eating a leaf of the poisonous flower. It is hinted in the leadup to his death that Reiji saw his end coming, and accepted it, having considered his final task complete. |
| I just finished the series, and had to search for a meaning to the end leading me here. Reading all the theories put it into perspective, so kudos for the theories. I've formed my own, based on logic and not much regard to what I would like to believe. I think they were both there at the same time. The man in the cart was from Inferno and shot Reiji, otherwise McGuire's line 'Even if it's just a fleeting dream, we have things we must do.' would be pointless. And I don't think Reiji expected it. He was vulnerable because of his desire to see Elen smile, the one thing that was more important to him than living. He did welcome death after seeing her smile. This is where I think the creators made 1 of 2 mistakes, leading to confusion. What makes the most sense is that Elen turned around and smiled at Reiji before he fell. That wasn't very clear with the order of the scenes. When she witnessed his death, the picture of her smiling fades, which I believe represents her smile fading. Since she had stated numerous times that she couldn't live without him, his death causes her to commit suicide, which is where the second mistake from the creators was made. They probably didn't know that the Geranium flower was not highly poisonous, or felt that the semi-common misconception of it was enough to go on. Like a lot of people here said, the creators wouldn't have shown the missing petal were it not significant. Another way to look at it is the causes of their deaths were shown side by side, the petal and the shell. And to note, Elen's comment 'These memories are enough for me to continue living' was made before she saw him die. This is what makes the most sense to me. It's a very poetic ending, following all the plot points that ran throughout the show. |
| very nice explanatio/theory, I'm gonna accept it as it is :D thank you |
ctcdreamer said: kingsheep812, you should write a fanfic omg! I love these endings. I didn't want Cal to die either :'( Haha thanks! Its fine just knowing that it pleases others out there makes me feel happy. Because this is how i truly wanted it to end. |
| "No one knows what the future holds. That's why its potential is infinite.” - Okabe Rintarou "El Psy Congroo." Kirino Kyousake Picture |
vexium said: The story's closing lacks a sense of purpose if Ein dies. Zwei's sacrifice means little to nothing, and the triviality is vast if we consider just how much effort it took to reinvigorate Ein to remember and fully become 'Erin.'... ...The flower remains intact, but it is damaged. However, in the end, it survives at all costs, and persists in its magnificence, just as Zwei wanted Erin to do. Live for herself and him, no matter what. That sounds fitting, I agree. My view of the suicide theory was that both of their deaths were unexpected, but at that point didn't matter because they both achieved what they wanted. I don't think both their deaths would be pointless, because even though Inferno eliminates Zwei and effectively Ein as well (assumingly), the pair broke out of Inferno's grasp, making them the true victors. Looking at it from your perspective makes more sense though. Elen's peaceful expression at the end can go either way. And the significance of showing the petal and shell together would instead depict the beginning of regrowth, as hellorynn wrote, and the sacrifice that made it happen. So yeah, I like this better :) |
| First of all, I'd lke to thank you (OP) for such an awesome post. The ending got me really confused, but you kinda opened my eyes. Still, there are 2 things unclear: 1. How the hell did they survive the fall into the ocean after being shot? 2. How did Scythe Master convinced Cal to be so angry towards Zwei. I never "bought" this. Her strong desire to kill him. I thought the only emotion she would show after seeing him again is happyness. Without any explanation it's just absurd. And no - saying stuff like "Scythe Master was a master psychologist" and such stuff ain't really cutting it... |
| Since Aldnoah Zero finished recently and it had a I couldn't help but think back to Phantom, which is still one of my all-time favorites, but I still dislike the ending. It may fit the whole "Requiem for the Phantom" & "live by the gun, die by the gun" themes but it felt out of the place anyway with how the series was progressing. Heck, the last 2 mins where Reiji dies is liberal anime-only decision which doesn't happen in the same ending of the VN. Because of that knowledge I find it easier nowadays to just ignore this bad anime-only decision, something which was done mainly for shock value. And I mean, just checking the numerous posts here & in other threads about the ending; everyone speculates & speculates but Reiji dying like that will always feel out of place & the same goes for Elen. Reiji intentionally letting his guard down and wanting to meet oblivion after meeting with Elen again isn't something he'd do, ESPECIALLY after she repeatedly told him that she can't afford to loose him. And just look at them in the 3rd arc: they were enjoying their temporary normal & peaceful lives and I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't want to experience more of that even after finding Elen's homeland. If he had the same mindset like when he worked for Claudia then that might've been more plausible since he felt was feeling emptier by the day. That changed when he got to know Cal, after which he felt empty once again when he thought she died but got his determination back again when he was reunited with Elen, which he's been together ever since. Other possibilities such as Reiji not noticing the guy in the cart was an assassin are too unrealistic to even take into account IMO, consider what we've seen throughout the show so far. He & Elen knew Inferno's assassins might still be after them and there's no way neither of them would notice that single cart approaching. At least if it was a more populated area then it might be more reasonable, but their self-awareness should've kept them safe even then - that's not something you can just forget after having to live the way they did for so long. Elen shooting him would be the most ridiculous thing of all so let's not even go there... So in the end, I just came to the conclusion that Urobutcher probably wanted to mess with the audience, which isn't anything unusual for him. His endings are also rather lacking at times, despite his excellent storytelling which I'm generally a fan of. |
ManlyTearSep 21, 2014 8:18 PM
SubZer0o said: Hi there. I've read the first post about how Reiji (and Elen) died because of several reasons. I haven't read all other comments, but I'd like to give my opinion on the ending as well. If I repeat what anyone said before, I apologise. Just wanna share my idea^^ First of all, I was very confused after watching the last episode (like most of you) and decided to rewatch it a couple of days later, since I couldn't stay satisfied with people dying without reason, leaving me in despair :P My interpretation of the ending is focused on a happy ending. I'm of the opinion, that although this was a pretty dark and serious anime, it was going for a happy ending. I was hoping from the start, that Reiji and Elen would get together as a couple sooner or later. Having watched the last episode, I was more or less unsatisfied. Here's what I think: After Elen found true happiness at the end, Reiji stepped away from her, looking into the sunset of the mongolian sky (which was beautiful by the way :D). By stepping away , the Reiji known as "Phantom", meaning the "murderer" inside him left his body and got shot. The person known as Phantom is dead, leaving only Reiji as a human being, who is still standing next to Elen, seeing her smile, which he wants to see so bad. I've read that Elen dies by the poison of a oxytropis flower, because Reiji died. I could give you 2 explanations: 1. Elen's "phantom" died by the plant, "cleansing" Elen, leaving her as a human being. (The more unlikely explanation) 2. Elen didn't die. She was merely gazing at the beautiful flower, which coincidentally had the same look as a poisonous plant. I'd rather say, that the flower is symbolising the beauty of mongolia and Elen herself. Furthermore, a single petal of a plant wouldn't be enough to kill a human being, even if it's toxic. I'd say the scene of the flower with a missing petal is a symbol for a "missing part", referring to Elen's lost memory. I shouldn't be the one to talk, but Elen getting killed by a flower is too much overanalysing and rather absurd in my opinion. Having said that, I see the ending of the anime as a situation, where Elen and Reiji spend the rest of their lives in peace together. Maybe I'm just hoping for a happy ending, because I really like the deep relationship between the two. It was better than most romance animes. Thanks for reading ^^ That's actually a pretty good interpretation - I might think of it like that instead. Some might say that it's not realistic enough but neither is Reiji miraculously loosing all his awareness that should come off instinctively and getting surprised by a single random guy in a chart passing through when there was no one else but him & Elen around. Of course, it still would've better if someone was near Urobuchi when he decided to put those less-than-20-seconds-altogether where Reiji get's shot & tell him: "Dude,seriously just don't." |
| I watched this anime yesterday and thank you a lot for the explanation :D Yeah, I kinda agree. I think Reiji wasn't together with Ellen that time, in the final ep., and when he was shot Ellen wasn't there. I think she died too. I don't know if she ate that flower, that petal, or if she died later, maybe Inferno shot her too, or she killed herself... I'm still dumbfounded by Reiji's death haha I really liked him :P |
qazwsx159 said: Very good, well thought out explanation man...really appreciate u posting this. Teared up several times reading thru it, this anime truly is an extremely heart breaking story. Had quite a few "flaws", but overall i really enjoyed it...Tbh this was sadder than clannad AS, at least for me it was...In particular, the story of Cal and how everything turned out for her was extremely heart breaking in itself. Although the way she acted and the things she did were however not justified, i still cant help but sympathize for the kind hearted little girl that she once was. And the story of Ein and Reiji was unbelievably sad as well, especially when u consider this explanation of the ending. Glad you liked it. It was pretty sad if you think about it. |
|
More topics from this board
Poll: » Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ Episode 26 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )LadyOrihime - Sep 24, 2009 |
641 |
by isck1
»»
Aug 4, 4:57 AM |
|
Poll: » Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ Episode 25 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 )LadyOrihime - Sep 17, 2009 |
181 |
by ryylsz
»»
May 21, 6:29 AM |
|
Poll: » Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ Episode 23 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )kerobear - Sep 3, 2009 |
142 |
by ryylsz
»»
May 21, 5:23 AM |
|
Poll: » Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ Episode 22 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 )tsubasalover - Aug 27, 2009 |
161 |
by ryylsz
»»
May 21, 4:45 AM |
|
Poll: » Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ Episode 21 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 )tsubasalover - Aug 20, 2009 |
191 |
by ryylsz
»»
May 21, 4:02 AM |