logic340 said: #6 - Soren "Penta got sent-a scum role pm Vote: PentaFlare" #54 PentaFlare in response to #6 "Sure did, but the only way you would know that is if you saw me in the secret club, so you must be scum too! :o Vote: Soren" Is this the truth in plain sight or just playful banter? Nobody ever lies in a mafia game, it must be the truth. |
Be like this seal. It is a happy seal. ~Review Guidelines~ | ~Recommendation Guidelines~ | ~Mafia Society~ |
| I also want to say that I have a 13 hour car ride ahead of me tomorrow so if you have questions for me you are going to need to ask them in the early part of the phase. |
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logic340 said: YEAH LET'S LYNCH THEM.#6 - Soren "Penta got sent-a scum role pm Vote: PentaFlare" #54 - PentaFlare in response to #6 "Sure did, but the only way you would know that is if you saw me in the secret club, so you must be scum too! :o Vote: Soren" Is this the truth in plain sight or just playful banter? I can see this as playful banter between townies or scum/townie banter. |
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PentaFlare said: IJS....these are the questions that I ask myself when I read these things. I know people lie but as we saw with Bursama there are times where we tell the truth.logic340 said: #6 - Soren "Penta got sent-a scum role pm Vote: PentaFlare" #54 PentaFlare in response to #6 "Sure did, but the only way you would know that is if you saw me in the secret club, so you must be scum too! :o Vote: Soren" Is this the truth in plain sight or just playful banter? Nobody ever lies in a mafia game, it must be the truth. |
Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC  |
 ~ π π½ π π‘π ~ Haruhi's inflated ego started ballooning out of control, sucking in people, objects, and the precious time of this game's flavor writers. (Sorry guys :/) However, there was one more thing she sucked in that would never be seen again: Soren has been killed. He was: ~ π π½ π π‘π ~ It is now Day 3. With 11 Alive, it’s 6 players to majority lynch. Deadline is 24 hours from this post, on January 5th at 11:00 pm GMT. β Day 3 Timer β |
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logic340 said: #6 - Soren "Penta got sent-a scum role pm Vote: PentaFlare" #54 - PentaFlare in response to #6 "Sure did, but the only way you would know that is if you saw me in the secret club, so you must be scum too! :o Vote: Soren" Is this the truth in plain sight or just playful banter? When I reread this earlier I thought the same thing. |
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| well damn I guess that answers that question.... |
| Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
Gruffin said: @Kit @Phraze @Oyasumi_Rosie @logic340 @aa-dono @LucianRoy @Grapefruit21 @Lord_Sithis @Sonata @PentaFlareBefore we get into D3, I have a question for everyone to think about looking back at D2: Who out of us here isn't providing clarity on their actions? Who's actions are causing confusion and discord among us? I think once we find and question these people, we'll have a better time figuring out who the scum are through their motives. Because scum want confusion, and town wants clarity. I'm going to work on answering this question myself, and I'd like to see your guys' thoughts on it. |
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I feel pretty stupid after this, I think I may quit mafia for a while after the game ends... If I had to, I'd vote up the common links between the lynches in days 1 and 2, but I have no clue if this is a good idea or not. I'm pretty jaded at the moment. |
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Gruffin said: Gruffin said: @Kit @Phraze @Oyasumi_Rosie @logic340 @aa-dono @LucianRoy @Grapefruit21 @Lord_Sithis @Sonata @PentaFlareBefore we get into D3, I have a question for everyone to think about looking back at D2: Who out of us here isn't providing clarity on their actions? Who's actions are causing confusion and discord among us? I think once we find and question these people, we'll have a better time figuring out who the scum are through their motives. Because scum want confusion, and town wants clarity. I'm going to work on answering this question myself, and I'd like to see your guys' thoughts on it. Confusion = LucianRoy this game in my eyes. Well, and apparently myself aswell, since I'm pretty fucking confused. |
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| I'll answer you more thoroughly tomorrow, I'm too tired tonight and I'd rather read all your thoughts on it before I spit any more nonsense. |
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Sonata said: Gruffin said: @Kit @Phraze @Oyasumi_Rosie @logic340 @aa-dono @LucianRoy @Grapefruit21 @Lord_Sithis @Sonata @PentaFlare I'm going to work on answering this question myself, and I'd like to see your guys' thoughts on it. Confusion = LucianRoy this game in my eyes. Well, and apparently myself aswell, since I'm pretty fucking confused. Lucian is always a little confusing, but there is definitely method in the madness. It is more important in his case to determine if it is scum method or town method because the madness will be there either way. |
Be like this seal. It is a happy seal. ~Review Guidelines~ | ~Recommendation Guidelines~ | ~Mafia Society~ |
PentaFlare said: ^ I've got some comments on this I'm writing up right now. I think he may be town with the direction his posts are going in.Sonata said: Confusion = LucianRoy this game in my eyes. Well, and apparently myself aswell, since I'm pretty fucking confused. Lucian is always a little confusing, but there is definitely method in the madness. It is more important in his case to determine if it is scum method or town method because the madness will be there either way. |
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| If I had to pick someone I am not entirely clear on, it would probably be Kit but that might be because I haven't focused in on them yet at any point in the game like I have with other players. I'll do some backreading on them now. |
Be like this seal. It is a happy seal. ~Review Guidelines~ | ~Recommendation Guidelines~ | ~Mafia Society~ |
PentaFlare said: If I had to pick someone I am not entirely clear on, it would probably be Kit but that might be because I haven't focused in on them yet at any point in the game like I have with other players. I'll do some backreading on them now. I too think Kit is confusing from what I was reading earlier, but mostly day 1 since day 2 I didn't really give him much time... Still, I mentioned that Mishukax was the one who voted him up day 1, and after some playful chatting in night 1 he appeared dead day 2. Could be irrelevant tho. |
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| @Grapefruit21 I've got a townread on Lucian. Lucian Lucian established that he had townvibes from 0x40 early on which eventually faded away. When Soren and Kit voted 0x40, he supported them as good votes, but then the train started gaining traction. It was then that he started having doubts and voiced the thought that 0x40 could be experiencing culture clash. I thought that there was a chance that he was last-minute white-knighting the lynch, but then he provides his thought process for this in 640 and I believe it. I see a lot of questions from him that are aimed at figuring out people’s alignment, and some of them show that he is trying to imagine things from their perspective. (If you want examples, I can pull up plenty.) The part that confused me was post 331, where he called Sithis’ post IIoA when there really was some analysis in it. When I asked him about this, he explained in 616 that he eventually worked it out and the meaning behind that post of his became clear to me. So basically, Lucian does change his mind a lot, but I can follow his logic on each change he makes and it’s a pretty natural progression each time. He acts in the interest of clarity which would ultimately come back to bite him late game if he were scum. I don’t mean to rely on meta, but to add on to this: In TGT he acted more as a spectator, commenting on a thing or two every now and then. Here I get the sense he’s trying to actively work things out and solve the game. @aa-dono I remember you saying something about scumreading Lucian. Could you consider and respond to this post? I invite everyone to do the same as well. Edit: And @Sonata |
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| @Sonata do you still scum read me? #678 |
| Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
Grapefruit21 said: Well yeah, but I'm talking about those who are promoting confusion, not those who are confused. I'm confused, you're confused, but are our actions geared towards becoming less confused or not?@Gruffin you are right that mafia wants confusion, but our collective reads have been so far off base *raises hand* that we've done a dandy job confusing ourselves. Edit: And this is regardless of whether we are actually successful in becoming clearer on the situation. |
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PentaFlare said: I'll need to do this too, You and Kit haven't gotten much focus from me yet.If I had to pick someone I am not entirely clear on, it would probably be Kit but that might be because I haven't focused in on them yet at any point in the game like I have with other players. I'll do some backreading on them now. |
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logic340 said: Question of the Day: Do you think that Sonata is either overzealous town or sacrificial scum? Sorry, late gifts came in the mail today so I was playing with them... ^3^ Overzealous town is my lean. It would be such a stupid move for maifa to stick out that much. I want to spend day three improving my read on Kit/Gruffin, seeing as they are on the train again, as well as really look at some others who I have bad feelings, but no evidence. |
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| @Oyasumi_Rosie I remember you asking for some tips on scumhunting earlier, apologies for not noticing at first. 1, 2, 3. I'm not sure how useful these will be or if they're outdated or not, but it's at least something to start with. There's better players than I in this game that could probably give you better advice. -only in my fourth game- |
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Gruffin said: Gruffin said: @Kit @Phraze @Oyasumi_Rosie @logic340 @aa-dono @LucianRoy @Grapefruit21 @Lord_Sithis @Sonata @PentaFlareBefore we get into D3, I have a question for everyone to think about looking back at D2: Who out of us here isn't providing clarity on their actions? Who's actions are causing confusion and discord among us? I think once we find and question these people, we'll have a better time figuring out who the scum are through their motives. Because scum want confusion, and town wants clarity. Yeah I was planning to answer just wanted to catch up. Should be up in the next 3 hours? I'm going to work on answering this question myself, and I'd like to see your guys' thoughts on it. |
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Gruffin said: @Oyasumi_Rosie I remember you asking for some tips on scumhunting earlier, apologies for not noticing at first. 1, 2, 3. I'm not sure how useful these will be or if they're outdated or not, but it's at least something to start with. There's better players than I in this game that could probably give you better advice. -only in my fourth game- Oooh~ Thank you thank you! I will read this up once I am done with the other question you asked! |
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Gruffin said: If you have something to say to me, go ahead. I'm not gonna counter you right now because I haven't done ISO on Lucian, just using memory.Since we appear to have differing opinions, would you like to discuss it together? |
Oyasumi_Rosie said: You're welcome. Also, I warn you not to give me town points on this because our gracious host Crossbell did this as scum in my first game. :POooh~ Thank you thank you! I will read this up once I am done with the other question you asked! |
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Kit said: I completely disagree with you assessment of Lucian. I really like Gruffin's read on Lucian. @Logic340 What do you think of LucianRoy? I gave my thoughts in 1040 and Gruffin gave hers in 1071, I'd like to see another opinion.. Kit said: As Gruffin stated and you to a lesser extent here you can see Lucian actually working through his read. Also calling his read on the meta pulling "out of his ass" is actually imo one of the key pieces in determining the Lucian is actually working the game trying to understand players and their alignment. I also agree with that reasoning and stated so right after I read it as I tried to save 40.logic340 said: I'm only going off memory right now. The progression of his read on 40 seemed unnatural- feels 40 is town from his early posts, likes my vote on 40 says im doing good work, feels less town on 40 when i asked him about it, then at the end of the day thinks 40 is town for a completely new, random/out of game reason in an attempt to save 40. Lucian's defense for 40 really tipped me off because while you/logic gave some well thought out reasons why 40 could be town, Lucian seemed to pull a reason out of his ass like he knew 40 would flip town and wanted to look good for defending him. Like, if 40 was used to 2-week phases, that would still apply if he was scum.Can you give examples of where Lucian contradicted himself please? Happened again with the Bursama vote, sort of. He shows his intention to vote Bursama then immediately unvotes because it's L-1. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember him having a case on Bursama, just not liking some of his recent posts. In the end it didn't seem like Lucian cared about if he got lynched, just that Lucian didn't want to contribute to getting Bursama hammered. I see Lucian moving off of Bursama as a very reasonable move. Why should he put him in position to be hammered the way he was in hindsight I am actually a little surprised you would even argue that as a contradiction instead of actually seeing the town mindset behind giving us time to figure it out. |
| Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
| It makes me uncomfortable that Soren, comf town, agreed with me on having a bad feeling about Lucian, and Logic, one of my bigger town reads, is susp of Gruffin, who is town reading Lucian, who I slightly scum read. In other words, poss Gruffin/Lucian team if me, Logic, and Soren are correct, but I don't have concrete evidence... |
logic340 said: Hmm.. Maybe I'm just being paranoid..Kit said: I completely disagree with you assessment of Lucian. I really like Gruffin's read on Lucian. @Logic340 What do you think of LucianRoy? I gave my thoughts in 1040 and Gruffin gave hers in 1071, I'd like to see another opinion.. Kit said: As Gruffin stated and you to a lesser extent here you can see Lucian actually working through his read. Also calling his read on the meta pulling "out of his ass" is actually imo one of the key pieces in determining the Lucian is actually working the game trying to understand players and their alignment. I also agree with that reasoning and stated so right after I read it as I tried to save 40.I'm only going off memory right now. The progression of his read on 40 seemed unnatural- feels 40 is town from his early posts, likes my vote on 40 says im doing good work, feels less town on 40 when i asked him about it, then at the end of the day thinks 40 is town for a completely new, random/out of game reason in an attempt to save 40. Lucian's defense for 40 really tipped me off because while you/logic gave some well thought out reasons why 40 could be town, Lucian seemed to pull a reason out of his ass like he knew 40 would flip town and wanted to look good for defending him. Like, if 40 was used to 2-week phases, that would still apply if he was scum. Happened again with the Bursama vote, sort of. He shows his intention to vote Bursama then immediately unvotes because it's L-1. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember him having a case on Bursama, just not liking some of his recent posts. In the end it didn't seem like Lucian cared about if he got lynched, just that Lucian didn't want to contribute to getting Bursama hammered. I see Lucian moving off of Bursama as a very reasonable move. Why should he put him in position to be hammered the way he was in hindsight I am actually a little surprised you would even argue that as a contradiction instead of actually seeing the town mindset behind giving us time to figure it out. |
Kit said: Hm. Okay, so since you didn't do an ISO on him, could you give me your opinions on certain posts of his and tell me if that affects your read?Gruffin said: If you have something to say to me, go ahead. I'm not gonna counter you right now because I haven't done ISO on Lucian, just using memory.Since we appear to have differing opinions, would you like to discuss it together? You said his progression on the 0x40 read felt unnatural. Take a look at 640 and go back through his posts on 0x40 up until that point. Can you follow his thought process now or no? Why or why not? What do you think of how he handled Sithis? Aaand I haven't gone through his D2 posts yet, so add that to the list of things I need to do. ;-; |
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| Going through day 2 again, got a question. Do we actually know if the kills done at night are done by mafia? |
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Oyasumi_Rosie said: Yes. There are such thing as killing TPRs (Third Party Roles), but since there's only been one death each night, I think it's just mafia.Going through day 2 again, got a question. Do we actually know if the kills done at night are done by mafia? |
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Kit said: Kit, this is just baseless speculation if you do not have evidence to back it up. Don't let paranoia get the better of you if you are town.It makes me uncomfortable that Soren, comf town, agreed with me on having a bad feeling about Lucian, and Logic, one of my bigger town reads, is susp of Gruffin, who is town reading Lucian, who I slightly scum read. In other words, poss Gruffin/Lucian team if me, Logic, and Soren are correct, but I don't have concrete evidence... |
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Gruffin said: hmm.....I feel like it was aa-dono, or Sonata from my PoV. Phraze as well to an extent but I see her interaction with Grapefruit seems very familiar to me (in a good way).Gruffin said: @Kit @Phraze @Oyasumi_Rosie @logic340 @aa-dono @LucianRoy @Grapefruit21 @Lord_Sithis @Sonata @PentaFlareBefore we get into D3, I have a question for everyone to think about looking back at D2: Who out of us here isn't providing clarity on their actions? Who's actions are causing confusion and discord among us? I think once we find and question these people, we'll have a better time figuring out who the scum are through their motives. Because scum want confusion, and town wants clarity. Yeah I was planning to answer just wanted to catch up. Should be up in the next 3 hours? I'm going to work on answering this question myself, and I'd like to see your guys' thoughts on it. |
logic340Jan 3, 2017 4:43 PM
| Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
Gruffin said: I really don't think that post you linked is that illuminating into Lucian's thought process or why 40 should have been saved. Lucian even admitted that he "guessed right" and it was "dumb luck" so he really did not have a town read on 40. Scum don't need real reasons to town read because they know who is town. And I have no idea where he pulled the 2-week-meta out from. here is where he first brings it up but the post he quoted doesn't really hint that 40 is from a 2-week meta, unless Lucian personally knows 40 better than the rest of us.Kit said: Hm. Okay, so since you didn't do an ISO on him, could you give me your opinions on certain posts of his and tell me if that affects your read?If you have something to say to me, go ahead. I'm not gonna counter you right now because I haven't done ISO on Lucian, just using memory. You said his progression on the 0x40 read felt unnatural. Take a look at 640 and go back through his posts on 0x40 up until that point. Can you follow his thought process now or no? Why or why not? What do you think of how he handled Sithis? Aaand I haven't gone through his D2 posts yet, so add that to the list of things I need to do. ;-; He also doesn't explain why "The reasons people were pushing him looked less and less shiny when put in ... the perspective of somebody experienced with the entire 2-week phases meta" And he doesn't explain why that made 40 town. He dismisses his own protection of 40 like it wasn't that important so people don't look at it too closely. He never explains why he thought 40 was town (while Logic did a great job explaining). He even showed suspicion of 40 throughout the day. Also I still don't understand why 40's responses to me were "clinical" when they sounded fueled with emotion to me. 40 sounded incredulous that I would accuse him of being mafia, which in hindsight actually seems a bit more townie than being "clinical" This has no mention of town reading. Like I said, even as scum he could be unused to the short days so it's not a free pass. and then he posts this just to push the fact that he "knew" 40 would flip town. I'd say your little exercise has made me feel even worse about Lucian, honestly :/ At the time, I liked where he was going with Sithis, but now I'm not so sure, because I'm starting to feel more town from Sithis. |
| @LucianRoy What do you think of Kit's suspicion of you? |
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Gruffin said: Hmm, you didn't mind me speculating back here and even slightly agreed with me. But now that I bring you and Lucian into it, all of a sudden I should be doubting myself? #triggered, Gruffin?Kit said: Kit, this is just baseless speculation if you do not have evidence to back it up. Don't let paranoia get the better of you if you are town.It makes me uncomfortable that Soren, comf town, agreed with me on having a bad feeling about Lucian, and Logic, one of my bigger town reads, is susp of Gruffin, who is town reading Lucian, who I slightly scum read. In other words, poss Gruffin/Lucian team if me, Logic, and Soren are correct, but I don't have concrete evidence... |
Gruffin said: Oyasumi_Rosie said: You're welcome. Also, I warn you not to give me town points on this because our gracious host Crossbell did this as scum in my first game. :POooh~ Thank you thank you! I will read this up once I am done with the other question you asked! Nah don't worry. I got my oblivious, unknowing, newbie eye on you ;3 |
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| @Kit I feel like you aren't trying to see things from Lucian's perspective. Think, why is he doing everything he has done so far? What are the benefits/drawbacks of doing it as town? What are the benefits/drawbacks of doing it as mafia? I feel his actions highly benefit town and don't help the mafia's agenda. Look at his early questions. How does that help him? How does it help his team (town/mafia)? Your read is based on specifics. Try to look at the bigger picture here. |
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Kit said: I did mind, which is why I voiced my concerns. Are you trying to incite emotional response from me with this? :\Hmm, you didn't mind me speculating back here and even slightly agreed with me. But now that I bring you and Lucian into it, all of a sudden I should be doubting myself? #triggered, Gruffin? Edit: Also, I didn't agree, just said I had a similar idea (that I've since dismissed because it's paranoid) |
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Gruffin said: What, that post is not my case against Lucian. It's a reply to a specific question you asked me, so of course it is specific!@Kit I feel like you aren't trying to see things from Lucian's perspective. Think, why is he doing everything he has done so far? What are the benefits/drawbacks of doing it as town? What are the benefits/drawbacks of doing it as mafia? I feel his actions highly benefit town and don't help the mafia's agenda. Look at his early questions. How does that help him? How does it help his team (town/mafia)? Your read is based on specifics. Try to look at the bigger picture here. Maybe it's because I have only gotten to play with you as town for 1 day phase per game, but you have never reacted to my opinions about someone else like this except when I was suspicious of Crossbell, your scum buddy. Gruffin said: I'm just having fun. It's about time we have a fight. It's a bonding experience~Kit said: I did mind, which is why I voiced my concerns. Are you trying to incite emotional response from me with this? :\Hmm, you didn't mind me speculating back here and even slightly agreed with me. But now that I bring you and Lucian into it, all of a sudden I should be doubting myself? #triggered, Gruffin? Edit: Also, I didn't agree, just said I had a similar idea (that I've since dismissed because it's paranoid) You said you might revisit the idea later ("I don't want to jump to this conclusion quite yet "), so from my POV you slightly agreed and didn't completely dismiss it. Should I remind you that contradicting yourself was a scum tell in CCL? I thought you said you were being careful with your words this time. |
| Sadly I have like zero reason. Mishu was going to protect Sithis, and Mishu was town. Which I know doesn't mean Sithis is town just because a townie said it, but I feel like they haven't been particularly scummy? I probably need to look at them again. But I'm just feeling more townie on them in relation to before, since I used to lean scum on them, and now it's more like neutral-to-town |
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