Re:ZERO -Starting Life in Another World- (light novel)
KlinsK said: Sorry, i can't help but feel like you're trolling. No, knowing the basic limits of his ability won't really create more tense. Did you at least think about it? What is the scariest thing : knowing that you'll really die in 10 deaths, or not knowing if the next death will be the last? (This is not spoiler, just assumption, i didn't read the novel). Anyway it is only logical from the author, Subaru has no way to find out how his power works for the moment. It will most likely be revealed when he'll meet with the Witch. :/ If you don't want to discuss a series, you don't have to. If you feel i'm "trolling" you personally by responding to what you said or making a post, that's not my intention and I have already clarified this. Your example of "knowing when you die" is not relevant. If you do not define a character's ability, the series then becomes "his ability is convenient to the plot" and breaks all immersion/consistency that could be established. Lets say that Subaru resets one time, but he does it in a way that a character remains dead. Lets say that Subaru resets one time, but he does it in a way that a character remains alive. Let's say subaru resets, but he only goes back 5 minutes. 10 minutes, a day, a month, to the beggining at random. What is the difference? How does the audience distinguish which is consistent within the narrative? Well, you don't. The immersion is broken because you've established events do not work within their own framework of the universe, but merely how the author writes it to unfold. And it's not too much to ask for Subaru to be the tiniest bit curious about the events unfolding around him. That is after, only human. |
Rehls said: Manjix said: Besides that, you have basically nailed the point where every single death of the main character is a plot device in order to either show something gory or bail the main character out of awkward situations. Which is why you can see as early as the second episode, he was killed by the thugs immediately after he made a bad first impression to the girl he wants to bone. The author is too used to getting away with using the main character's inability to be killed in order to "load game" and the fangays of this series is just too much of a sucker to be impressed by it. If you look into it objectively, there are so many deus ex machina death of the main character, including what I have mentioned, also him jumping off the cliff, and him getting beheaded at the end of episode 15. The shows as a proof of where Subaru is indeed a plot device and not a character. No, none of those deaths were unreasonable. You don't know what you're talking about. You're making false accusations. He should've failed and died many more times. Felt should've made him bleed in their encounter. But the author instead gave him unrealistic dodging abilities. Elsa should've killed him with ease, but instead he was made able to parry her attacks. Only one madog went to attack him, and he was able to kill it, impaling it on a tree stick - through its rib cage. Why haven't many madogs attacked him instead of only one? The show's going easier on him for convenience's sake. It was totally reasonable for him to be killed by a psychotic thug, after angering him. And he jumped off the cliff because he concluded that he'd live longer by not being hunted down. It wasn't beheading that killed him, but extreme cold. He died before his head fell. He didn't know that Puck would go berserk. It was a condition in Emilia's contract, hinted in episode 3. 'out of awkward situations'? Hahah. Must be the viewers that lack enough stomach to see Subaru, for example, biting his tongue and bleeding to death instead of having Rem free him. What would you prefer to see? ... You're nitpicking about this sht? Nice to see that the haters aren't saying much. I think you miss the point. It's not that he shouldn't die in those scenarios. It's that when he dies, he dies when it's convenient for the plot to advance. |
| . xFrown said: And Rem is the typical girl that falls for the main dude because he "saved" her and now she is like his little bitch. Agreed...there is not really much I have to add. The only reason I keep watching this show is that I keep hearing that Subaru is going to improve and because I heard there will be plenty of well-developed male characters later in the show. So far, though, none of this has come to pass.[/quote] Rem does not love subaru for saving her but instead because of his words that made her overcome here inferiority complex and guilty of her sister and it is by their interactiom that rem becomes able to find value in her actions again |
gabrielrroizJul 29, 2016 2:38 PM
| I love how people jump to saying "NO IT DOESN'T UR DUMB" without actually debating any of the points made. But yeah, the story is pretty flat and the characters aren't all that interesting. It's not terrible, but it falls into that 'ah yes generic thing #1000' category of anime storytelling. |
kdog1000 said: I love how people jump to saying "NO IT DOESN'T UR DUMB" without actually debating any of the points made. But yeah, the story is pretty flat and the characters aren't all that interesting. It's not terrible, but it falls into that 'ah yes generic thing #1000' category of anime storytelling. I've heard the similar variation of this with about every popluar show ever. |
| The anime is just an edge fiesta. I won't judge the writing of the WN/LN because I haven't read it. But the anime is pretty average at best lol.. |
Well the problem (as I see it) is that Subaru should be interested in his ability from the start. Now given that subaru is an idiot at the start, it's excusable. But when he hits the mansion he should register that his "checkpoint" was not at the apple vendor. Waiting till he finally meets the witch (or whoever gave him the ability), only for the person to say "hey this is how your abiilty works" kind of tells us as the audience that the characters themselves don't really care about their circumstance, even though it directly affects them. |
EmpirenXDJul 29, 2016 10:40 PM
Darklord_bg said: EmpirenXD said: Outside of "best girl" or "waifu" stuff, you're really left with nothing else but a very bland fantasy. Also true - I'm pretty sure most people who enjoy this show do it because Rem is best girl (or Emilia, whatever) - so it's really another "waifu" anime. The fact that in this very forum 70% of users chose Rem and Emilia as favorite characters speaks enough about the kind of anime this is. Nah, I like it for the story, the analysis on human trauma and how the mystery and foreshadowing envelops the whole series. Seriously if you look back on arc one and look at the show minus the hate bias, you'll see tons of referrences to what will happen in the future arcs. |
BRB-kun said: Darklord_bg said: Also true - I'm pretty sure most people who enjoy this show do it because Rem is best girl (or Emilia, whatever) - so it's really another "waifu" anime. The fact that in this very forum 70% of users chose Rem and Emilia as favorite characters speaks enough about the kind of anime this is. Nah, I like it for the story, the analysis on human trauma and how the mystery and foreshadowing envelops the whole series. Seriously if you look back on arc one and look at the show minus the hate bias, you'll see tons of referrences to what will happen in the future arcs. The TC and several people here are pretty much trolls at point. I've been so many forums that have had people discussing tons of aspects of this of series, the biggest being it's plot, lore, mysteries and Subaru's development. The waifu nonsense has been secondary. At best it's just discussed a alongside the actual narrative so this part of post straight up BS. They live own bubble, pull shit of their ass and then arrogantly try to force a reality about that. |
Iron_MawJul 29, 2016 11:21 PM
BRB-kun said: Darklord_bg said: Also true - I'm pretty sure most people who enjoy this show do it because Rem is best girl (or Emilia, whatever) - so it's really another "waifu" anime. The fact that in this very forum 70% of users chose Rem and Emilia as favorite characters speaks enough about the kind of anime this is. Nah, I like it for the story, the analysis on human trauma and how the mystery and foreshadowing envelops the whole series. Seriously if you look back on arc one and look at the show minus the hate bias, you'll see tons of referrences to what will happen in the future arcs. Concurred, to me the world building, characters backstory-interaction details and the mysteries were what hooked me to the series, even after read to the current WN arc, it's still intriguing to watch the anime, manga and taste how all that details unfold. |
kdog1000 said: I love how people jump to saying "NO IT DOESN'T UR DUMB" without actually debating any of the points made. But yeah, the story is pretty flat and the characters aren't all that interesting. It's not terrible, but it falls into that 'ah yes generic thing #1000' category of anime storytelling. Then why don't you explain why the characters are "flat"? Them being interesting depends on the person. Some people love the Re:Zero characters and some don't. You're no better than the Re:Zero fans who defend the show without good reasoning. |
Rehls said: He'd really only die for Emilia. In case death of others prevented him from staying beside Emilia, then he'd consider life not worth living, and die so he could try again. He didn't come to this world to keep commiting suicide. It was to start a new a life. You think he's fine/would be fine with this? Hah. Before when I didn't understand Subaru enough, I thought he'd be more comfortable with killing himself. But that's me, not him. In his place I'd consider it smarter not to abuse of it. It's too great a risk to lose such a wonderful world. See two things. 1. He already committed suicide and I'm almost certain that Rem > emilia for Subaru. 2. I'm not saying he needs to commit suicide, but that he needs to be curious about his ability. He legitimately just kind of wakes up and goes "oh ok, i'm not dead, that was painful" and moves on. It doesn't take a lot of effort to have a 5 minute scene with subaru saying "alright, so I can only go back 2 days" or something along those lines.(especially given how padded that mansion arc was). |
Rehls said: 1) No, he still loves Emilia, but doesn't Rem. 2) Curious? It's not like he always has the key to solve he issue. He's been always learning more. He's doing it right for relying on RbD last. 3) No, he's always been experiencing different kinds of trauma. Now if he were to experience another massacre, he'd probably (as we can presume) not be affected as much. 1. Hardly care on his relationships. 2. How does him having the key to solve an issue have anything to do with a characters (natural) curiosity? 3) Again, how is his trauma relevant to what I stated? |
EmpirenXD said: Yuzuryn said: Then why don't you explain why the characters are "flat"? Them being interesting depends on the person. Some people love the Re:Zero characters and some don't. You're no better than the Re:Zero fans who defend the show without good reasoning. Seeing as I'm the OP and I was the one who originally called a lot of the characters "flat" let me explain myself. Flat characters are those characters that show a limited or single character traits and the audience does not know that much about them. If you were to go down the character list: http://myanimelist.net/anime/31240/Re_Zero_kara_Hajimeru_Isekai_Seikatsu/characters You'd see that outside of those 4 characters I listed (Subaru, emilia, Rem/Ram) most of them are flat characters because they display a single trait and we know virtually nothing about the majority of the cast. [Note: A character showing "true intentions" or "changing viewpoint on another character" does not make them round.] Now all characters have potential to be round in storytelling, so this may change with time. But currently we have been introduced to a lot of characters that feel very shallow. I agree with you that the characters besides the four you listed are somehow flat in comparison. However, it is inevitable as the anime takes the POV of Subaru, who is immature and does less effort to understand those around him (Crucsh, Felis etc) while he is clings himself to the idealize Emilia who thus far is his anchor of his already unstable mind. thus we have limited characterization for other characters though Subaru's narrow scope. And I think the author did a good job showcasing how limited Subaru knew about this world. And yeah, I agree that given time the other characters will have their share of development. Although it will not be too apparent in the current arc as Arc 1 to 3 focus on the development and growth of Subaru's character. Have a nice day~~ |
NitroKageAki said: I agree with you that the characters besides the four you listed are somehow flat in comparison. However, it is inevitable as the anime takes the POV of Subaru, who is immature and does less effort to understand those around him (Crucsh, Felis etc) while he is clings himself to the idealize Emilia who thus far is his anchor of his already unstable mind. thus we have limited characterization for other characters though Subaru's narrow scope. And I think the author did a good job showcasing how limited Subaru knew about this world. And yeah, I agree that given time the other characters will have their share of development. Although it will not be too apparent in the current arc as Arc 1 to 3 focus on the development and growth of Subaru's character. Have a nice day~~ You know, I take it no one here has actually read H.P. Lovecraft or actual psychological tales from victims of insanity. See when you tell me that "oh it's because it's a focus on Subaru" all I can think of is the exact same thing was with SAO with Kirito. Now I hope it expands, I hope the characters become their own personalities, but how it's looking so far does not have me with that much faith in it. |
| It's writting is pretty good when it comes to the character's interactions. In the case of the overarching plot it has yet to impress me, its decent at best. |
| sic mundus |
crx07 said: Everyone else in the show is flat and simply exist as a sort of nod to "oh ok this character has this archetype, moving on." Lol. Felix really follows an archetype. While it's true that every character follows an archetype in the first glance, you cannot move on because there are more than what you see.EmpirenXD said: A lot of characters feel flat because of lack of screen time. But if you really think about it, and watch the series carefully, they are not that flat. Kadomon and Felix are not that flat for me. Priscilla's outrage meats her up a bit. Crusch got more meat than Priscilla. Even Otto has some meat.Flat characters are those characters that show a limited or single character traits and the audience does not know that much about them. You'd see that outside of those 4 characters I listed (Subaru, emilia, Rem/Ram) most of them are flat characters because they display a single trait and we know virtually nothing about the majority of the cast. [Note: A character showing "true intentions" or "changing viewpoint on another character" does not make them round.] Now all characters have potential to be round in storytelling, so this may change with time. But currently we have been introduced to a lot of characters that feel very shallow. Yes yes, I know the "if you really think about it" answer. It's a staple of flat characters that people will interpret and make up things that are not specifically there in attempt to make them round. You see this happens with a lot of shallow/background characters in an attempt to make them more interesting or relevant than a show actually presents them as. |
EmpirenXDJul 30, 2016 1:18 PM
EmpirenXD said: Rehls said: 2) Again, what's there to learn? He should already be aware that the checkpoint moves further. And what if someone's controlling it? We've (as him) been hinted this. Meaning that he wouldn't be able to predict. Apparently everything, as there has not been a set limit established outside of it's base "checkpoint" limit. Even if someone is controlling it, it still has to have a limit or mechanic that the character would be curious about. You don't just reset yourself and accept that. You ask why and how, you try to figure it out. It's this shows lack of character curiosity that really makes for bad writing. Because if the characters aren't interested, why should anyone else be? Testing the limit would be messing with death (permanent) though. Why would you do that? |
Re:Zero nice troll ending.  |
EmpirenXD said: NitroKageAki said: I agree with you that the characters besides the four you listed are somehow flat in comparison. However, it is inevitable as the anime takes the POV of Subaru, who is immature and does less effort to understand those around him (Crucsh, Felis etc) while he is clings himself to the idealize Emilia who thus far is his anchor of his already unstable mind. thus we have limited characterization for other characters though Subaru's narrow scope. And I think the author did a good job showcasing how limited Subaru knew about this world. And yeah, I agree that given time the other characters will have their share of development. Although it will not be too apparent in the current arc as Arc 1 to 3 focus on the development and growth of Subaru's character. Have a nice day~~ You know, I take it no one here has actually read H.P. Lovecraft or actual psychological tales from victims of insanity. See when you tell me that "oh it's because it's a focus on Subaru" all I can think of is the exact same thing was with SAO with Kirito. Now I hope it expands, I hope the characters become their own personalities, but how it's looking so far does not have me with that much faith in it. Yeah, I haven't got the chance to read Lovecraft and had plan to read it for ages.... Any recommendation? I do agree that most of the Re:zero chapters is Subaru-centric (except few chapters that features some side characters). What separates Re:Zero to SAO is that the side characters are introduced back to the series with an ample share of development where you have the book-by-book heroines of SAO receives little to no development after their arc ended. That said, I totally agree that the rest of the casts are not that flashed out and like you said, it will change if given time since the anime as a whole is just amount to 10-15% of the whole story. |
Sometimes791 said: Testing the limit would be messing with death (permanent) though. Why would you do that? Because some people here think they're smart and that Subaru is an in videogame or something and not actual dangerous predicament. No sane person who might be put in that situation would potentially jeopardize their life like that when there are so many unknowns, moreso when they aren't even control of their power. It's easy to talk about tempting fate when you're the one sitting at your desk with no fear. Rehls said: On_the_Lam said: inb4 I'll be attacked by Re:Zero fanatics. Anyway, it was interesting initially, but then it started becoming repetitive. Not as much as it could've become. Can't you imagine? And this can be said about any other show. And I'm not Re:Zero's fanatic. I'm a fan of this kind of content. More even seeing it being done well. On_the_Lam said: I'm also not a fan of the whole election subplot, which at this point is being handled rather poorly. The world we've been introduced to as of now is also kind of generic. The witch cult brought chills to my spine until Betelgeuse was introduced. Oh, and the (in)famous Subaru is also a big problem, of course. It was handled well to me, as the characters were true to themselves; honest and confident. Subaru isn't a problem to me. For similar reasons the candidates weren't. You should check the manga and make comparisons. On_the_Lam said: Still has the potential to improve itself, though. Apparently White Fox is actually doing the source material justice and taking the adaptation seriously, so I guess the source material is at fault. There's not much else that could've been better done realistically. People were already wanting to avoid the reality in Subaru's behavior. It's too unpleasant for them, eh. It turns them off. They were already criticizing the candidates' behaviors, too. Wanting them to behave like politicians from our world. Would they threaten another politician in the senate? With a gun? This is the equivalent of what Priscilla did to Felt. DingDing! This is obvious in the anime too but Priscilia just comes out voices it. That's all I'm gonna say in this containment thread. Continue putting up the good fight man. |
Iron_MawJul 30, 2016 2:00 PM
Rehls said: xD That's the impression people get. They got the same from Hunter x Hunter (2011) in the first 15 episodes. I get the feeling I/we are talking against a wall. Is it so hard to comprehend that this anime season adapts the immediate start of the story? The amount of demands people have from the first 10% of the story is ridiculous considering that the majority of shows reach their 10% within the first 2-4 episodes. |
Sometimes791 said: Testing the limit would be messing with death (permanent) though. Why would you do that? Noting the limit would not be though, since it doesn't require suicide. AdultTickets said: I don't see how Subaru lacks curiosity towards his powers. Over the course of the series it has already been shown that he has attempted to examine the reason for his powers. . Source, please! AdultTickets said: One, Subaru's number one priority has never been about discovering more about the world, it has been Emilia. Yeah it's pretty weird how Subaru just doesn't care about these things and they constantly come to bite him in the ass. (You'd think he learn after awhile that following "the waifu" isn't the best course). AdultTickets said: So why does Subaru break down even when he was able to go back to the past before the massacre? That I believe has to do with how he believes that he caused the massacre to happen and other factors. This can be supported by how he had a flashback to a comment that he made to Emilia that he's given the chance he could make everything better. This comment was made because of his awareness of his ability. But suddenly he was given the chance, and he believes that the comment that he made led to the massacre. This may seem irrational to us outside viewers, but thoughts like these are not uncommon in the real world. One example that comes to mind is how some fans believe that if they watch their team play, it leads to their favorite team losing. Although logically it makes no sense, humans are not always logical. What is your point here? Because I could take what you said here and apply it to bad writing in any scenario. Excusing something with "it's not logical, but neither are humans" is ridiculous. Right there you've arrived at a conclusion that you'd literally go to the ends of the earth for relativism in order to defend a series. AdultTickets said: Although the trigger that broke him may have been him believing that he may have caused the massacres, the things that stressed him were his traumas. For some reason there are some people here that seem to think that trauma is something that can be gotten over easily, just because he has the ability to come back to life after death. That's like saying when a person is being tortured, even though they know that won't really die, because they have information that is needed, they won't break and spill the beans. Saying Subaru can just ignore his trauma is degrading to soldiers who have come back from war and still break-down even though they know that they are in a safe location just by hearing a sound that is reminiscent of war. It is asinine to expect an 18-year old boy who lived in a cush 1st world country to be able to deal with everything that Subaru has gone through. Subaru has been thrown into an entirely different culture and world where there is no one he can really turn to for his issues. Really, really don't care what "broke" subaru. It's a temporal tragedy. It's no big deal if a character dies in a reset zone. That whole episode was to prop up Beltagoose. |
| From what I've seen,this show hype is all about Rem lol... Honestly I was forced to watch this show because of the constant spoiler and crap ton of rem photos everywhere. however,I think its better to wait until the show is over to give your verdict since there is quite few episodes left. |
| The closer you get to the light,the greater your shadow becomes. |
On_the_Lam said: Ok, maybe you're right. This kind of reminds me of how mediocre the first season of Avatar was, with just a 3 or 4 stand-out episodes out of 21, until the two-part finale. But it was a damn good finale. I'm sure if it had ended right then and there, it wouldn't be as acclaimed as it is, though. However, Re:Zero currently stands as one of the highest rated anime series on MAL with just 17 episodes aired, and it honestly doesn't deserve the praise. It can get better and I wish it will get better, however it is still getting undeserved acclaim. Keep in mind that after I finished binge-watching the first 9 or so episodes of Re:Zero, I felt genuinely excited and told others to check out the series, whereas other people on this board who criticize it are also members of clubs with names such as "Re:Zero sux!!!". To be honest, this series and it's reactions are very, very similar to SAO and Akame Ga Kill's initial reception by the anime community. Tons of hype for the edge. "Best girl" contest. Tons of apologetics for things you wouldn't dare make for in other series. And a lot of bad writing elements that are overlooked, while it still being praised for being "good writing". Now is Re:Zero as bad as those two? Not even close. But it's popularity, fanbase reactions, and general state are. As for MAL's scoring.......MAL is notorious for scoring things because of hype and fanboys rigging the voting system. Examples: Gintama does not deserve 5 slots in the top 100. Erased sure as hell doesn't deserve to be in the top 100(no one will remember it in a year). (and you can go on and on with this stuff). |
yamen said: From what I've seen,this show hype is all about Rem lol... Honestly I was forced to watch this show because of the constant spoiler and crap ton of rem photos everywhere. however,I think its better to wait until the show is over to give your verdict since there is quite few episodes left. Oh I plan to. this is just for forming a general thought about the show and following it up at the end. |
AdultTickets said: EmpirenXD said: What is your point here? Because I could take what you said here and apply it to bad writing in any scenario. Excusing something with "it's not logical, but neither are humans" is ridiculous. Right there you've arrived at a conclusion that you'd literally go to the ends of the earth for relativism in order to defend a series. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that Subaru is without a doubt a human and as such would act like a human? Also what is relativism supposed to mean in this context? It's a temporal tragedy. It's no big deal if a character dies in a reset zone. Again how does Subaru know for certain it is temporary. How is he supposed to know with 100% certainty that he has another chance? Also what does it being temporary have to do with the fact that in Subaru's case it did happen and for him they did die. They might be able to come back alive, but that does not excuse the fact that because of him they died.Please, don't attribute any action as "well he's human". That's just lazy. 99% of characters in fiction are humans. Them being stupidly illogical or inconsistent is not excused by "well they are human" for those scenarios. Relativism is the action where you say everything is subjective, sorry, wrong terminology. Apologetics/vague answers is the correct response. How does subaru know for certainty? Repeated demonstration of reality. This is apologetics. You are using a borderline sollipsism argument for something that is as simple as a set mechanic within a series. How does naruto know that this time he's going to use the rasengan? How does he know that it won't blow his arm off? Because when you repeat something 10+ times, it's establishing that it as a mechanic. |
| now subaru was made to be a very generic character, a normal human. now this is something interesting since every and I mean every human thinks they are special or/and they are the only one who act the way they do, that is not true you are just one of many. Also subaru is scared of dying so whenever he dies maybe the terror isnt about the events to come but him knowing that he will die again, if you would have to die over and over again you would surely go insane also now you might say "oh I would think totaly rationaly and wouldnt akt like subaru does" are you sure? I do have to say that subaru should be a bit more logical but I think its fine as is |
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