fst said: megamachine said: As it happens in literature with the classification based on readers age: "young" "adult" etc, shonen is not officially a genre; but It should be because It serves as a hint of the content. Also if most shonen share a characteristic (like lack of : sex, deep character development, more mature reactions/relations between characters) then It should be a genre you'll find that it's far too diverse and loosely defined to be a genre. Consider that Bakuman, Akame ga Kill and Shigatsu are all shounens. Just because MAL uses those terms as genres in it's database does not make them useful for classifying manga (much less anime) in such a manner. Any classification alone is diverse. It should be used to add accuracy Example: Slam Dunk is shonen and Ro Kyu Bu is not - why?, because the first one is about self improvement hard work naive goals etc etc and the other one is about a boy who is a coach. Its not about if it is suitable for children but it is about if they might like it or not |
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| Socially constructed misconception. |
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megamachine said: As it happens in literature with the classification based on readers age: "young" "adult" etc, shonen is not officially a genre; but It should be because It serves as a hint of the content. I don't really see how it hints at content in the same way genre does. The description of shonen on the internet states that is is aimed for children below 14 years old. and that they tend to be serialized in shonen aimed magazines and time schedules for children. Some shounen magazines are aimed at the late teen/early 20s range. |
megamachine said: fst said: you'll find that it's far too diverse and loosely defined to be a genre. Consider that Bakuman, Akame ga Kill and Shigatsu are all shounens. Just because MAL uses those terms as genres in it's database does not make them useful for classifying manga (much less anime) in such a manner. Any classification alone is diverse. It should be used to add accuracy Example: Slam Dunk is shonen and Ro Kyu Bu is not - why?, because the first one is about self improvement hard work naive goals etc etc and the other one is about a boy who is a coach. Its not about if it is suitable for children but it is about if they might like it or not Can you explain what the sort of content one can expect in general shounen? I gave my definition for battle shounen, which is more specific. I wonder what's your take. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheRefractingOne said: LOLZ!Gangsta is a seinen, but it's content is more shounen-esque and barely comparable to seinen like Monster. |
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TheBrainintheJar said: megamachine said: Any classification alone is diverse. It should be used to add accuracy Example: Slam Dunk is shonen and Ro Kyu Bu is not - why?, because the first one is about self improvement hard work naive goals etc etc and the other one is about a boy who is a coach. Its not about if it is suitable for children but it is about if they might like it or not Can you explain what the sort of content one can expect in general shounen? I gave my definition for battle shounen, which is more specific. I wonder what's your take. Based on induction and internet definitions, I expect from a shounen Anime/Manga the same I expect from "young oriented" books/movies; high chance of school setting, pretty low slice of life content, if there is some slice of life content it is far from reality or dull or based on teenagers day-life, main character and immediate support below 20 years old, if there is romance it is not the main aspect of the show or is not too far developed, they face dull problems in a very excessive dramatic way, and a complete lack of elements with witch an adult can relate (job, university, girlfriend/boyfriend, homosexuality, prostitution, show ironically how modern life is like a puppet show, poverty, etc) |
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megamachine said: As it happens in literature with the classification based on readers age: "young" "adult" etc, shonen is not officially a genre; but It should be because It serves as a hint of the content. Also if most shonen share a characteristic (like lack of : sex, deep character development, more mature reactions/relations between characters) then It should be a genre You can certainty judge the content of the comic book by it's demographic but we're still not getting this doesn't make it a genre. It might be common in shonen, yeah friendship and stuff usually are, doesn't make a genre. Should TV-MA be counted as a genre, because they have content that seperates them from the rest of the tv-guidelines? No. |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
| because it is good |
| Since when is fantasy not a genre lmao |
ashfrliebert said: flannan said: There exists a type of anime that is like DBZ, Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Digimon, MAR and a thousand others. Different anime of this type are sufficiently alike that it can be considered a valid (genre) tag of its own. When people talk about "battle shounen", "shounen fighting anime", or "shounen genre" - they refer to this type of anime. Unless you're willing to find a better name for it, and spend a lot of effort to make it stick, it will continue being referred like that. How about action manga? I understand we're you all are coming from, but if the discussion is about semantics battle shonen is 'still' not a genre by itself. It's like, who cares, but a demographic still doesn't technically describe genre in theory. You say "battle shonen" have systems, but "battle manga" works in that category completely fine because it covers such a wide scope. "Guinea pig" is a common name used for the species of rodent, "battle shonen" is not a common name universally used to a wide extent in Japan, as far as I know. It still doesn't matter though. Sure, battle shonen is more specific but if it's not a very widely used term in comparison to the way "shonen" is in relation to the shonen manga, it's not "official, official" you dig? It's very widely used on MAL though and it's obviously not a negative term by itself, it more or less has pretty much the exact same meaning as "action" ,because shonen seems to be the dominant demographic. So this really shouldn't matter. Don't take what I say as fact, I wasn't raised in Japan, but this is from my understanding of it. ps. "Shounen genre" is hardly ever even used on MAL for "battle manga" inherently, it's used for manga of shounen demographic in general, incorrectly, but still. "Action" isn't any better at describing the genre in question than "shounen". Shingeki no Bahamut is an action anime - characters fight all the time, with demons, zombies, giant enemy crabs, and so on. It isn't part of the genre in question. MC doesn't become a bit more powerful. Arguably, he doesn't even become a better person. Hellsing is an action anime. In fact, a lot of anime with "overpowered" MCs are action anime, but aren't part of the "battle shounen" genre, because MC doesn't need to become stronger, overcome difficulties with power of will, and in fact might not encounter any worthy opponents. |
pparaply said: Since when is fantasy not a genre lmao One of the more complicated genre arguments I've encountered was about sci-fi. Some sci-fi is about exploring future technology, its practical, moral and social problems (which are often modern problems extrapolated into the future). It is sci-fi as a genre. Ghost in the Shell, SAO, Gargantia are examples of it. I've heard (but not seen myself) that Plastic Memories and Gundams are like that too. Other sci-fi could just as well have been set in any other place, like Wild West, but people shoot blasters instead of revolvers there. It's sci-fi as a setting. I'd say Dirty Pair is like that most of the episodes. Speaking of fantasy, fantasy definitely makes a good setting, but I don't know what defines it as a genre. absentminded said: flannan said: anoo, can you explain what corellation between masochism and seinen?Good definition! Let's use it to re-classify all the anime on MAL, it will be a lot more useful than definition based on the publishing magazine. As people grow older, they begin to enjoy their shows exploring all kind of dark themes - politics, divorce, rape, crime, insanity, deaths... In short, people become masochistic. Now, I know that "cute girls doing cute things", and other slice-of-life anime is mostly enjoyed by older audience. In fact, I'm part of it. Still, most of the depressing and soul-tainting stuff is marketed to seinen audience. megamachine said: fst said: you'll find that it's far too diverse and loosely defined to be a genre. Consider that Bakuman, Akame ga Kill and Shigatsu are all shounens. Just because MAL uses those terms as genres in it's database does not make them useful for classifying manga (much less anime) in such a manner. Any classification alone is diverse. It should be used to add accuracy Example: Slam Dunk is shonen and Ro Kyu Bu is not - why?, because the first one is about self improvement hard work naive goals etc etc and the other one is about a boy who is a coach. Its not about if it is suitable for children but it is about if they might like it or not So true! That's why most anime are tagged with multiple "genres". "Shining Tears x Wind" and "Shiawase no Pan" are both "fantasy". Maybe they're even set in the same world. But they're completely different stories - one a slice-of-life story about a fantasy baker, the other an action story about a hero saving the world from nazi elves. |
megamachine said: Based on induction and internet definitions, I expect from a shounen Anime/Manga the same I expect from "young oriented" books/movies; high chance of school setting, pretty low slice of life content, if there is some slice of life content it is far from reality or dull or based on teenagers day-life, main character and immediate support below 20 years old, if there is romance it is not the main aspect of the show or is not too far developed, they face dull problems in a very excessive dramatic way, and a complete lack of elements with witch an adult can relate (job, university, girlfriend/boyfriend, homosexuality, prostitution, show ironically how modern life is like a puppet show, poverty, etc) That doesn't make shounen a genre. With a genre, there will always be some element of it in the story. It might manifest itself in different ways, but it's still there. But it's quite possible for not all shounen manga to fit this definition. |
ichii_1 said: Z4k said: What about Terraformars, Tokyo ghoul and One Punch Man? Should we call those battle shounen too? Terraformars might as well be a gag series now, johj roaches too goddamn stronk XD Tokyo ghoul RE isn't good enough to be a battle shounen. OPM regularly appears in shounen magazine so yes. Your inputs are always appreciated ichii. |
megamachine said: TheBrainintheJar said: Can you explain what the sort of content one can expect in general shounen? I gave my definition for battle shounen, which is more specific. I wonder what's your take. Based on induction and internet definitions, I expect from a shounen Anime/Manga the same I expect from "young oriented" books/movies; high chance of school setting, pretty low slice of life content, if there is some slice of life content it is far from reality or dull or based on teenagers day-life, main character and immediate support below 20 years old, if there is romance it is not the main aspect of the show or is not too far developed, they face dull problems in a very excessive dramatic way, and a complete lack of elements with witch an adult can relate (job, university, girlfriend/boyfriend, homosexuality, prostitution, show ironically how modern life is like a puppet show, poverty, etc) This is too vague. How do the stories work? You tell me what won't appear in shounen, but what does it include? |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
megamachine said: Based on induction and internet definitions, I expect from a shounen Anime/Manga the same I expect from "young oriented" books/movies; high chance of school setting, pretty low slice of life content, if there is some slice of life content it is far from reality or dull or based on teenagers day-life, main character and immediate support below 20 years old, if there is romance it is not the main aspect of the show or is not too far developed, they face dull problems in a very excessive dramatic way, and a complete lack of elements with witch an adult can relate (job, university, girlfriend/boyfriend, homosexuality, prostitution, show ironically how modern life is like a puppet show, poverty, etc) @bolded: That's great! Now everytime I am reading a shounen series I can laugh at others for indulging in wishfulfillment/self-insert, while I read stuff where "self insert" is impossible! And then laugh at how low both adults who read/watch seinen and teenagers who read/watch shounen are!  |
Grey-ZoneSep 25, 2015 9:44 AM
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DrGeroCreation said: FTFYTheRefractingOne said: LOLZ!monster is a seinen, but it's content is more shounen-esque and barely comparable to seinen like crayon shin-chan. |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
flannan said: "Action" isn't any better at describing the genre in question than "shounen". Shingeki no Bahamut is an action anime - characters fight all the time, with demons, zombies, giant enemy crabs, and so on. It isn't part of the genre in question. MC doesn't become a bit more powerful. Arguably, he doesn't even become a better person. Hellsing is an action anime. In fact, a lot of anime with "overpowered" MCs are action anime, but aren't part of the "battle shounen" genre, because MC doesn't need to become stronger, overcome difficulties with power of will, and in fact might not encounter any worthy opponents. Just assuming I assumed right from much Wikipedia searching I don't know if Shingeki no Bahamut is even shonen, but assuming it is, I said "action anime/manga" can describe literally every single "battle shonen", not the other way around-and if I didn't I meant. And it's really not a better term to describe, I guess "battle" comes to mind before "action" to most. Shounen usually have elements that are generally marketed towards their audience, that's the entire point. But genre's are specific, and "shounen manga" isn't a specific term that describes one thing, it describes a static group of human beings, adolescent boys. You can't say it's of the "young boy genre", it has common elements that are marketed towards a certain demographic but that doesn't make said demographic a genre. Shounen isn't and can't ever be a genre by itself. It just doesn't work that way, this is the argument, battle shounen is not a term in itself that can't just fall under the "action" umbrella. But "action" describe every so called "battle shonen" ever. Battle shounen is literally "shonen"-a demographic, that's "battle" and I guess that works! But shounen doesn't really describe one thing, but use what you want, I'll probably still use the term battle shonen, linguistic discussions are probably the most pointless ever. MC becomes stronger and meets friends because it's an action manga that's aimed at a shounen audience. M8, a demographic usually has specific things that doesn't make it a genre soley because of the "specific" part. Things of genre usually HAVE to have a certain element to be part of that genre, shonen is basically literally just an age group, and a certain age group usually likes the ol dumb and silly adventure-going, friendship making stuff. And people punching each other. To make this simple A demographic(/age group) likes dumb and silly adventure going and defeating monsters, so it's marketed towards such. Those things are two aspects, you see? It fits under both the adventure genre and the action genre, but both of things can still be separate things. A demographic is a aimed group of actual human beings, genres aren't sentient. Simple, no? I'm pretty sure absolutely none of us lives in Japan anyway, so who really cares, right? |
ashfrliebertSep 26, 2015 1:43 AM
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
| To people who say Shonen is not a genre? You are on a website: MAL. The website has rules and regulations. You are confined within those while you are on said website. -= ie. Word of God. MAL classifies shonen as a genre. [b]Therefore, your argument is invalid. SHONEN IS A GENRE! |
KuroudoAkabane said: To people who say Shonen is not a genre? You are on a website: MAL. The website has rules and regulations. You are confined within those while you are on said website. -= ie. Word of God. MAL classifies shonen as a genre. Therefore, your argument is invalid. SHONEN IS A GENRE![/b] MyAnimeList said: LMAO. can this called genre? and soo many exceptions. also seinen and josei have it as well.Josei - *BLANK* Seinen - *BLANK* Shoujo - Anime that are targeted towards the "young girl" market. Usually the story is from the point of view of a girl and deals with romance, drama or magic. Shounen - Anime that are targeted towards the "young boy" market. The usual topics for this involve fighting, friendship and sometimes super powers. |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
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