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| I think that if Danzo becomes the leader of the so called alliance he"ll use Naruto because before this chapter Danzo said to his followers that they can't let Naruto go out of the vilage. Danzo will probably suggest that they'll use Naruto-the host- for something -don't know that yet- and that Gaara will be the only one who oposes Danzo because Gaara is Naruto's friend :) I also think that at the end there will be a war and Naruto will be using the Kyuubi -He'll be able to control the Kyuubi- to finaly end that war. |
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| Still baffled at how Danzou is able to get control like this. It's still too easy and absolutely no resistance (which is kind of unthinkable) happened. Figured Sai was going to tell Sakura about Naruto's feelings. Now she'll probably get in the way at some point. |
| I thought this was a pretty interesting chapter, even with all the talk and such. I surely hope that the head doesn't fall onto Danzou's command.. and I couldn't help but laugh out loud when Sai pointed out how Naruto truly loves Sakura, It would have been rather emotional but I really found that panel amusing. Way to break the ice if I may say so myself. |
"It's because you exist.. That I'm here right now.."  |
Shancakeschan said: kurodayuchi said: B-but this isnt what i want to happen. :( I hope Raikage puts up a big fight! Even though i hate him, but not has much as Danzo! >:[Shancakeschan said: This is exactly what i didnt want the Kage's to do.. DO NOT LET DANZO LEAD! no, no, no, no. It is actually a pretty reasonable choice. The position of the leader in an alliance is always determined by its military/political power, but I don’t think the Raikage will accept this easily. Why? So far Danzo has earned nothing more but respect from me. Frankly he is the only likeable character as of now as he is the only one who thinks and does things in the realistic way instead. He is exactly what we need after how sugar fluff Tsunade ruined Konoha. |
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Fai said: Shancakeschan said: kurodayuchi said: B-but this isnt what i want to happen. :( I hope Raikage puts up a big fight! Even though i hate him, but not has much as Danzo! >:[Shancakeschan said: This is exactly what i didnt want the Kage's to do.. DO NOT LET DANZO LEAD! no, no, no, no. It is actually a pretty reasonable choice. The position of the leader in an alliance is always determined by its military/political power, but I don’t think the Raikage will accept this easily. Why? So far Danzo has earned nothing more but respect from me. Frankly he is the only likeable character as of now as he is the only one who thinks and does things in the realistic way instead. He is exactly what we need after how sugar fluff Tsunade ruined Konoha. Yeah, the guy is great (especially when he let Pain destroy Konoha and ordered his underlings to do nothing). He was also particularly caring when he killed the frog that was going to warn Naruto about the situation. |
| I thought this was an intresting chapter, i've been looking foward to seeing how that meeting would go. Gaara is about as awesome as he always was. Great chapter again, 5/5 from me XD! |
babykeiji said: Yeah, I was really amazed to see Kankuro using Sasori as a pet, LOL! That was just cool, haha! XD Anyways, Sai's sequel after the meeting really took down the tension build up from the meeting. What Sai did was really good, BUT this isn't yet the time to blame or put on burdens to each other when the village is in peril. What Sai did is good, but not on the right timing, yet... And so even if Sakura would stop Naruto doing his promise for her. Naruto won't stop cause he's not just doing it for Sakura, but he himself want Sasuke back. So he would just do it for his own now. And by the looks of Danzou, it looks like he has connections and influence with the Iron Country there, he's just silent and looks like he knows what really will happen in the meeting. This Danzou really needs to be discovered of his plot schemes. Anyways, it's a good chapter. 4/5 My thoughts exactly. Good chapter overall. |
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| at last, after 458 chapters, we get some development in Sakura. waas it really that hard? |
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| LOL, Sai. I think what he says is right, Sakura should just tell Naruto to forget his promise about Sasuke, cause seriously it's getting him nowhere and it's annoying. Nobody cares about your stupid Sasuke, so just please stop always chasing after him, ugh. Anyway, Danzo... is manipulating everyone. XD Nice. |
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| So..a five-way alliance eh. |
     #Feitoism @ irc.rizon.net - the official IRC channel for Fate Testarossa.  |
kurodayuchi said: Yeah, the guy is great (especially when he let Pain destroy Konoha and ordered his underlings to do nothing). It only makes sense to do nothing and minimize the causalities of fighting force. There is a high chance that after Pain leaves, other countries might perceive Konoha as weak and launch an attack. Rettaining you fighting force in full health is one of the best decisions to do kurodayuchi said: He was also particularly caring when he killed the frog that was going to warn Naruto about the situation. Because Naruto is exactly the thing Pain wanted to take, It would NOT make sense to bring him here. Of course Naruto still came talk-jutsued pain, Kishi trolled Pain fandom with the flashbacks and etc, but still that all succeeded only because Naruto was strong enough to face him. Had Naruto not been strong enough, letting him come to there would only easen up Pain's job. |
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fisher_88 said: I was reading this chapter, and I was actually enjoying it... but Sai cut in and did all that bullshit. I enjoyed the reasonable discussion and Raikage, and it made sense for Konoha to be the leader, enough for Danzo not to do anything to get it (nice move by outing Madara). I have to take back what I said about Danzo being a completely useless plot device for Naruto to overcome - hopefully he didn't waste chapters waiting around for Madara to act. Oh and Sai confessing for Naruto - hilarious and pathetic at the same time. But it broke the mood and dialogue of the meetings, contained unneeded flashbacks, and segued poorly into the ending. Also, Naruto is a man (maybe), he doesn't need some to speak for him, nor does he need people's permission to make his choices. Best part was Kankuro using Sasori as his puppet. Good comment, I totally agree. |
| In nomine Patri. Et Fili. Spiritus Sancti. |
| They better not let Danzou Lead |
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| Tension runs high as the meeting of the five kages begins. Erm, maybe this was explained earlier, but how the hell does Danzo know that Madara is the head of Akatsuki? I don't recall him ever finding this information out, and the fact that he knows makes me think even more that he IS Madara/Tobi. Dammit, he had better not gain leadership of the five kages. Though that seems to be the case... next chapter Raikage will obviously object, and I hope Gaara objects too. I hope everyone objects!! Sakura's crying again. I'm glad Sai as much as told her she "cursed" Naruto and that she causes him pain. WAKE UP, bitch. Ugh, she's been so thick-skulled for all these years! I was having a conversation with my best friend about this the other day, and we decided she doesn't deserve Naruto OR Sasuke. |
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| Oook. Let’s recapture: Fai said: So far Danzo has earned nothing more but respect from me. Frankly he is the only likeable character as of now as he is the only one who thinks and does things in the realistic way instead. I guess when you mean that he’s the only one that does things in a realistic way, you’re saying that the only realistic way to do things is by assassination, corruption and betrayal. This may be your “reality” sure is not mine. Fai said: ]He is exactly what we need after how sugar fluff Tsunade ruined Konoha. You said that Tsunade ruined Konoha and Danzou is the SALVATION…Hummm… This sounds difficult to accept when we know that while Tsunade was fighting against Pain and nursing the inhabitants Danzou was playing hide and seek. Fai said: It only makes sense to do nothing and minimize the causalities of fighting force. There is a high chance that after Pain leaves, other countries might perceive Konoha as weak and launch an attack. Rettaining you fighting force in full health is one of the best decisions to do Hummm… Let’s see this picture http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/429/12-13/ Look what Pain did just to show “the real pain” to everybody. And this AFTER of already knowing the whereabouts of Naruto. Therefore, we can conclude that he would bring havoc to Konoha anyway, hiding Naruto or not – havoc is one of the objectives of Akatsuki as a matter of fact. And he already knew where Naruto was, but he was still going to kill Tsunade… wait, even after knowing Naruto’s location, he didn’t go after him, but rather Naruto that came to Konoha, so I don’t think the plain “wow, Pain, let’s be friends!” would work. You only do nothing when you know that your chances of victory are 0%.It’s pretty stupid to give up when you have high chances of winning, and what Danzou wanted by hiding Naruto wasn’t protect the Kyuubi (actually, as we could see in this chapter, Jinchuuriki are used exactly as weapons for defense of the villages), but rather become Hokage by Tsunade’s death. If I remember correctly what Danzou said was not “let’s minimize the causalities!” but something like “let’s cheer for Pain destroying Konoha so I can be Hokage!” I’m sorry if I don’t see patriotism in it. Danzou just wants power – he doesn’t even care if his reign is a pile of corpses. And he’s such a coward that he didn’t even comprehend that this was the perfect opportunity for him to become Hokage – but in an honorable way. The Yondaime got famous exactly in the times of crisis: he proved his value when he was needed, so everybody acknowledge him as the supreme shinobi. Danzou chose the path of the cowards. While Minato fought the invader and became a legendary Hokage, Danzou played hide and seek for this purpose. If Danzou expelled Pain, the same inhabitants would choose him as The Hokage. Fai said: ]Because Naruto is exactly the thing Pain wanted to take, It would NOT make sense to bring him here. Of course Naruto still came talk-jutsued pain, Kishi trolled Pain fandom with the flashbacks and etc, but still that all succeeded only because Naruto was strong enough to face him. Had Naruto not been strong enough, letting him come to there would only easen up Pain's job. Humm… So everything you said is correct if we IGNORE the fact that Naruto is strong – pretty convenient don’t you think? Humm… and maybe is exactly because he was strong that Tsunade was so desperately trying to call him? Naruto was the strongest ninja by then, besides being a Jinchuuriki, and everybody knew it. When Danzou killed that frog he wasn’t guarding Konoha – he was destroying the only chance Konoha had. |
kurodayuchiJul 31, 2009 9:45 AM
kurodayuchi said: Oook. Let’s recapture: Fai said: So far Danzo has earned nothing more but respect from me. Frankly he is the only likeable character as of now as he is the only one who thinks and does things in the realistic way instead. I guess when you mean that he’s the only one that does things in a realistic way, you’re saying that the only realistic way to do things is by assassination, corruption and betrayal. This may be your “reality” sure is not mine. Fai said: ]He is exactly what we need after how sugar fluff Tsunade ruined Konoha. You said that Tsunade ruined Konoha and Danzou is the SALVATION…Hummm… This sounds difficult to accept when we know that while Tsunade was fighting against Pain and nursing the inhabitants Danzou was playing hide and seek. Fai said: It only makes sense to do nothing and minimize the causalities of fighting force. There is a high chance that after Pain leaves, other countries might perceive Konoha as weak and launch an attack. Rettaining you fighting force in full health is one of the best decisions to do Hummm… Let’s see this picture http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/429/12-13/ Look what Pain did just to show “the real pain” to everybody. And this AFTER of already knowing the whereabouts of Naruto. Therefore, we can conclude that he would bring havoc to Konoha anyway, hiding Naruto or not – havoc is one of the objectives of Akatsuki as a matter of fact. And he already knew where Naruto was, but he was still going to kill Tsunade… wait, even after knowing Naruto’s location, he didn’t go after him, but rather Naruto that came to Konoha, so I don’t think the plain “wow, Pain, let’s be friends!” would work. You only do nothing when you know that your chances of victory are 0%.It’s pretty stupid to give up when you have high chances of winning, and what Danzou wanted by hiding Naruto wasn’t protect the Kyuubi (actually, as we could see in this chapter, Jinchuuriki are used exactly as weapons for defense of the villages), but rather become Hokage by Tsunade’s death. If I remember correctly what Danzou said was not “let’s minimize the causalities!” but something like “let’s cheer for Pain destroying Konoha so I can be Hokage!” I’m sorry if I don’t see patriotism in it. Danzou just wants power – he doesn’t even care if his reign is a pile of corpses. And he’s such a coward that he didn’t even comprehend that this was the perfect opportunity for him to become Hokage – but in an honorable way. The Yondaime got famous exactly in the times of crisis: he proved his value when he was needed, so everybody acknowledge him as the supreme shinobi. Danzou chose the path of the cowards. While Minato fought the invader and became a legendary Hokage, Danzou played hide and seek for this purpose. If Danzou expelled Pain, the same inhabitants would choose him as The Hokage. Um. I have to agree, 100%, with kurodayuchi. Well said. Danzo is a power-hungry, manipulative old man who cares only about advancing his position in the world. I am sure his reign as Hokage will become tyrannical and his true colors will be obvious to everyone before this is all over. Unless Sasuke kills him before he can be a tyrant. Good leaders need to have at least some ounce of human understanding and compassion. In no way does being capable of empathy make one "sugar fluff." |
AikaHimeJul 31, 2009 10:05 AM
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kurodayuchi said: I guess when you mean that he’s the only one that does things in a realistic way, you’re saying that the only realistic way to do things is by assassination, corruption and betrayal. This may be your “reality” sure is not mine. He used all available methods to strengthen the position of the country he is loyal to. The only two Hokage to be smart were the first and the third. Others seemingly just slept on peace pillows dreaming about the peaceful world while everything went to hell. kurodayuchi said: You said that Tsunade ruined Konoha and Danzou is the SALVATION…Hummm… This sounds difficult to accept when we know that while Tsunade was fighting against Pain and nursing the inhabitants Danzou was playing hide and seek. Let's see: Tsunade - Provoked Pain into nuking Konoha - never issued orders to kill Sauce - did mostly nothing Danzou - Did everything possible to protect a tailed beast from Akatsuki. - Issued order to kill Sauce. - Is ready to go to hell as long as his country survives. - made a great tactic decision which made sure that most of his ninja survive, instead of foolishly going to fight an unbeatable enemy who would have just left after finding out that no one knows where Naruto is. kurodayuchi said: Hummm… Let’s see this picture http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/429/12-13/ Look what Pain did just to show “the real pain” to everybody. And this AFTER of already knowing the whereabouts of Naruto. Therefore, we can conclude that he would bring havoc to Konoha anyway, hiding Naruto or not – havoc is one of the objectives of Akatsuki as a matter of fact. And he already knew where Naruto was, but he was still going to kill Tsunade… wait, even after knowing Naruto’s location, he didn’t go after him, but rather Naruto that came to Konoha, so I don’t think the plain “wow, Pain, let’s be friends!” would work. Pain did that because useless Tsunade pissed him off with her hypocritical talks. If nothing like that had happened, Konoha would not have been blown up. Pain after figuring out where Naruto is or is not, would have just left. it was never about "killing" tsunade". it was trying to show her that everyone can feel pain and that konoha-truth isn't the only truth in the world. Akatsuki goals are not to "create havoc". Pain's goals are to create a series of events similar to Hiroshima of the real world, so the world would understand on just how shitty this whole war stuff is and get together in grief. Which, if that was a realistic way, would be the best possible way to avert wars. But of course this is Naruto and Naruto will achieve peace by talking everyone out of fighting. kurodayuchi said: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/429/12-13/ You only do nothing when you know that your chances of victory are 0%.It’s pretty stupid to give up when you have high chances of winning, and what Danzou wanted by hiding Naruto wasn’t protect the Kyuubi (actually, as we could see in this chapter, Jinchuuriki are used exactly as weapons for defense of the villages), but rather become Hokage by Tsunade’s death. Surely everyone knew that its the guy who massacred Ganzo and ganzo family. Naruto is the target of the Akatsuki operation, hiding him only makes sense. And if Danzou manages to get hokage post too by this action - thats a plus too. WINNING? AGAINST PAIN? No one could expect that Naruto was as powerful as he is. Had Naruto not been as powerful as he was, Akatsuki would have all 9 beasts right now kurodayuchi said: If I remember correctly what Danzou said was not “let’s minimize the causalities!” but something like “let’s cheer for Pain destroying Konoha so I can be Hokage!” I’m sorry if I don’t see patriotism in it. Danzou just wants power – he doesn’t even care if his reign is a pile of corpses. So everything HAS to be spelled out for you to acknowledge it? All the reigns and nations in our world are built upon the corpses of others. What Danzou did protected his main force as well as furthered his goals. Any means necessary so to say. kurodayuchi said: And he’s such a coward that he didn’t even comprehend that this was the perfect opportunity for him to become Hokage – but in an honorable way. Honourable way? Coward? Oh please. We have seen with Miss Fail Tsunade how honourable works. The way Sarutobi dealt with it was right because the invaders had no intent of leaving village alone. The way Tsunade dealt with Pain invasion was incomprehensible. Angering a skirmish force which would probably leave after getting or not getting the info they wanted. What Danzou did was right. Even if Pain planned to annex the village, its best to retain most of the forces during the first strike so the partisan war can be waged latter on. kurodayuchi said: The Yondaime got famous exactly in the times of crisis: he proved his value when he was needed, so everybody acknowledge him as the supreme shinobi. He was "supreme shinobi" because of his skills and Hiraishin technique. He is "famous" because sacrificial lambs are always famous. Its popular for masses but not necessary useful for country. kurodayuchi said: Danzou chose the path of the cowards. While Minato fought the invader and became a legendary Hokage, Danzou played hide and seek for this purpose. If Danzou expelled Pain, the same inhabitants would choose him as The Hokage. Minato was hokage already before that fight. He became legendary because of his skills during the war, because of his technique, Hiraishin, not because he suicided himself to seal off Kyuubi. And even his self-suicide was part of Minato's plan to fight against Madara and to train his own son. All Danzo did was to assert his chances at losing - as every clear-minded leader should. kurodayuchi said: Humm… So everything you said is correct if we IGNORE the fact that Naruto is strong – pretty convenient don’t you think? Surely naruto is strong now, but nor Danzou nor anyone else(except Frog Mountain) knew that right at that moment. You do not take chances with such important goals unless you are 100% sure to succeed. What Danzou did was the best way regardless of Naruto's strength. kurodayuchi said: Humm… and maybe is exactly because he was strong that Tsunade was so desperately trying to call him? No. Tsunade was just her old usual indecisive trusting self. And leaders should not act on their heart in such grave circumstances. kurodayuchi said: Naruto was the strongest ninja by then, besides being a Jinchuuriki, and everybody knew it. Erm no. Before Sage mode surely Naruto was stronger than Kakashi or Sauce, but not as strong as other high-calliber ninja like other Kages(minus Tsunade) or other high-tier ninja of Konoha. Surelly after Sage Training Naruto was stronger than anyone in Konoha, but before all what was normally known was that he has created a forbidden jutsu. Thats all kurodayuchi said: When Danzou killed that frog he wasn’t guarding Konoha – he was destroying the only chance Konoha had. Danzou: 1. Protected the Tailed Beast from getting captured by Pain. 2. Ensured his own military force survives. 3. Understood the idea that Konoha can be rebuild as long as its not officially annexed. Loosing a few citizens or the town itself is no big deal. Sayuri-Hime said: Danzo is a power-hungry, manipulative old man who cares only about advancing his position in the world. I am sure his reign as Hokage will become tyrannical and his true colors will be obvious to everyone before this is all over. Unless Sasuke kills him before he can be a tyrant. Power-hungry? Yes, as every feudal leader should b e. "Advancing his positioN" - nope. Danzou is a man who does not care about damning himself as long as the country he is working for. His ROOT forecs did a lot of dark things for the sake of Konoha. They and Danzou are the only ones in Konoha who seemingly understand that with only goodie tricks you can't run a country. "I am sure his reign as Hokage will become tyrannical and his true colors will be obvious to everyone before this is all over." And since when Shinobi world was a democracy fluff? Never. Its strength of mind of leader that decides the the outcomes. Hashirima manipulated the world into peace by giving off WMDs to major nations. "Unless Sasuke kills him before he can be a tyrant" oh god I can't wait to see Saucegay try to do that. Maybe after FOUR fighting fail Sauce will understand on just how ignorant, prideful and weak he is. Sayuri-Hime said: Good leaders need to have at least some ounce of human understanding and compassion. In no way does being capable of empathy make one "sugar fluff." There's no place for that in feudal world. One must be strong and one-step ahead than the other leaders. Its the only way to ensure your nation's safety. Just as in the real world, the only way to prevail is to use any means necessary. |
AhenshihaelJul 31, 2009 10:38 AM
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Fai said: He used all available methods to strengthen the position of the country he is loyal to. The only two Hokage to be smart were the first and the third. Others seemingly just slept on peace pillows dreaming about the peaceful world while everything went to hell.[/Fai] It’s quite hard for my mind to apprehend how letting a guy open a freaking moon’s eye in my village is going to strengthen it. Hummm Correct me if I’m wrong but… wasn’t Hashirama the peaceful leader in contrast with Madara the war-lover one? And isn’t this one of the reasons that Danzou hates both The third and Tsunade? Because they’re the followers of his policy? So, Proposition: Hashirama is good in your opinion Tsunadae follows the same policy that her ancestor Solution: Tsunade is bad -_-!!! Fai said: Tsunade - Provoked Pain into nuking Konoha - never issued orders to kill Sauce - did mostly nothing Yeah, Tsunade just hurt the feelings of the poor Pain – I soo pity him. When someone invades your territory the wisest thing to do is to invite him for a cup of tea. If helping Naruto develop his Rasengan, If being the only Kage to send missions against Akatsuki Is mostly nothing… Yes, Danzou playing hide and seek while the enemy plays Hiroshima and Nagasaki is a role much more proactive. Again, all Danzou’s actions were purely selfish so far, so I can’t see how he’s this great Hokage that you claim.(actually he isn’t officially). If watch your people die for your own ego is a great leader… God help us! Fai said: Danzou - Did everything possible to protect a tailed beast from Akatsuki. -Humm. Let’s recapture this. The whole crappy childhood that was impost to the Jinchuuriki was for the sake of building a weapon to secure each village. You’re carrying an AK-47 and then a guy comes to fight you. Yet, instead of using this gun, which’s your only chance of survival, you prefer to hide the Ak cause you’re really scared that the guy may stole it XD. Do I have to say once again that what Danzou said was not “Let’s protect the Bijuu”, but rather: “Screw Konoha – I want to have power?” Fai said: - Is ready to go to hell as long as his country survives. Seriously?! It seems to me something more like: “my people should be ready to go to hell for me, as Pain was killing them”. Fai said: made a great tactic decision which made sure that most of his ninja survive, instead of foolishly going to fight an unbeatable enemy who would have just left after finding out that no one knows where Naruto is. If I am not wrong, Pain wanted to show real pain to people. I don’t see how he would be able to do this by… Knock, Knock -Is Naruto there? - No, he isn’t. - Ok, I come back later. ???????? What great tactic decision? You claimed that he was guarding Konoha’s main forces, but in fact it was only Naruto. Kakashi is elite, but he couldn’t care less by his death or any other character that was perishing. Honestly: do I really need to post here the page in which Danzou is saying screw Konoha, I want to be Hokage? But then you will have to show me the page that he said “I want to keep my people alive!”. He didn’t have to fight and unbeatable enemy – btw did you see that Danzou is not just an old guy, right? – but he didn’t have to stop the coming of Konoha’s only hope. He’s a great tactician, nobody can deny it, but I don’t saw his decision as the option that allowed the survival of most people. Fai said: Pain did that because useless Tsunade pissed him off with her hypocritical talks Yes, she should praise him. Fai said: Akatsuki goals are not to "create havoc". Pain's goals are to create a series of events similar to Hiroshima of the real world, so the world would understand on just how shitty this whole war stuff is and get together in grief. I don’t know if you noticed it, but this is pretty condradictory: 1. Akatsuki’s goal are not to create havoc. 2. Akatsuki's goals are to create a series of events similar to Hiroshima ????????????????? Events similar to Hiroshima seem a pretty good havoc to me. Fai said: Naruto is the target of the Akatsuki operation, hiding him only makes sense. Hide your AK, man! Fai said: And if Danzou manages to get hokage post too by this action - thats a plus too. Are you sure that the “plus” I not the main thing? Fai said: WINNING? AGAINST PAIN? No one could expect that Naruto was as powerful as he is. Had Naruto not been as powerful as he was, Akatsuki would have all 9 beasts right now Yes, the guy has the most powerful Bijuu, is the son of Yondaime, disciple of Jiraya, went to a super training and everybody was hoping that he would become weaker. No one could expect? Don’t you remember that Tobi foresaw this? + Don’t you think is weird that Tobi sent Pain to Konoha exactly when Naruto wasn’t around, mainly if we consider that Zetsu somehow knows everything that happens in Konoha? So we can assume that Tobi’s real objective wasn’t to capture Naruto – the same way Tobi knew Itachi wouldn’t do it? Fai said: All the reigns and nations in our world are built upon the corpses of others Pretty morbid, aren’t you? Yes, it cannot be denied that every nation has deaths in its history. However, it’s something that’s temporal. Naruto’s world already saw three great shinobi wars and these battles were exactly to set peace. But, as in our world, there are some who make some profit with it, so they want never-ending battles, like Danzou, Mandara, etc. Fai said: Honourable way? Coward? Oh please. We have seen with Miss Fail Tsunade how honourable works. Again: Tsunade: Development of the Jinchuuriki, missions against Akatsuki (that may have some relation with Danzou), missions against Orochimiru (who’s an acquiatance of Danzou btw), Mission to search for Sasuke, fighting against Pain, nursing the inhabitants. Danzou: playing hide and seek… eetooo… eetooo… I can’t think in anything else. Fai said: He was "supreme shinobi" because of his skills and Hiraishin technique. He is "famous" because sacrificial lambs are always famous. Its popular for masses but not necessary useful for country. Are you sure it was just his techniques? Yes, he would still be the supreme ninja if his history consisted in playing poker… his actions are totally irrelevant. Yes, someone who sacrifices his own life to save his village is a piece of garbage… but hide and seek is cooool. While Minato fought the invader and became a legendary Hokage, Danzou played hide and seek for this purpose Fai said: Minato was hokage already before that fight. There’s a difference between a Hokage and a legendary one. I don’t think Danzou will have this adjective. Fai said: He is "famous" because sacrificial lambs are always famous. Its popular for masses but not necessary useful for country. Fai said: He became legendary because of his skills during the war, because of his technique, Hiraishin, not because he suicided himself to seal off Kyuubi ?????????????????????-_-????????????? Can’t you decide? -He’s famous for 1 -He’s famous for 2, not for 1 S= impossible Fai said: Surely naruto is strong now, but nor Danzou nor anyone else(except Frog Mountain) knew that right at that moment. You do not take chances with such important goals unless you are 100% sure to succeed. What Danzou did was the best way regardless of Naruto's strength. Please read again and see that Tobi could see this. Danzou only stopped the frog because he knew Naruto could beat Pain. He didn’t want anybody to interfere in TsunadexPain for he knew the outcome. So do you think everybody was saying: “Naruto Kaerou!” because they liked its sound? When you know that you are going to die, and is inevitable, you can only say to people that you care to run away - especially the “weak” Tsunade, isn’t? She wouldn’t say, “let’s die together, bro”. She literally said to Pain that Naruto was strong. Naruto learned The Fourth technique when he was still a kid (and in only one week). He has the nine tailed beats within himself, he has been training with Kakashi, Jiraya and the frogs since then… yeah: It was really unpredictable. You can never disregard the chances of winning from a huge chakra monster. No. Tsunade was just her old usual indecisive trusting self. And leaders should not act on their heart in such grave circumstances. Let’s resume this: Tsunade was wrong – calling Naruto was a terrible idea. Naruto came and beat Pain.?????? You’re judging Danzou merely by his pseudo altruistic actions, right? Something like Machiavelli: the end justifies the means, right? 1.Tsunade called naruto. Naruto won the fight 2.Danzou let his people die for his own egoistic reasons How’s the really objective one here? Fai said: Erm no. Before Sage mode surely Naruto was stronger than Kakashi or Sauce, but not as strong as other high-calliber ninja like other Kages(minus Tsunade) or other high-tier ninja of Konoha. Surelly after Sage Training Naruto was stronger than anyone in Konoha, but before all what was normally known was that he has created a forbidden jutsu. Thats all. Again, the most powerful jinchuuriki, son of Yondaime, disciple of Kakashi and Jiraya, etc, etc. Yes, they should expect that he would come back weaker after the super training. But if everybody was so wrong in trusting Naruto – How were they right in the end? Fai said: Danzou: 1. Protected the Tailed Beast from getting captured by Pain. 2. Ensured his own military force survives. 3. Understood the idea that Konoha can be rebuild as long as its not officially annexed. Loosing a few citizens or the town itself is no big deal. 1.Wrong. Used the death of its people as a stair. 2.True. 3.I think I solved the mystery Tobi is Danzou, and Danzou is you XD obs: If you are not going to bring a new argument or at least something that has the minimum of factual basis and it’s not just your idealization of Danzou, don’t even bother, I won’t read it - nobody will. |
| Sai earned a lot of points for telling things right as they are: Sakura and Sasuke are a real pain in the ass for both Naruto AND the people reading the manga. The reunion could have been better, but I still like how Danzo pulls the strings. |
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Fai said: Loosing a few citizens or the town itself is no big deal. How can that be called "no big deal?" Of course it's a big deal, the people of the town are suffering and dying (though resurrected in the end)! These are human lives we are talking about. Fai said: "Advancing his positioN" - nope. Danzou is a man who does not care about damning himself as long as the country he is working for. His ROOT forecs did a lot of dark things for the sake of Konoha. They and Danzou are the only ones in Konoha who seemingly understand that with only goodie tricks you can't run a country. Eh? Since when has Danzo ever cared about anything besides becoming the Hokage? Last I checked, that's called advancing your position. "Goodie tricks?" Define "goodie tricks," and exactly how do you run a country then? You act like you know all about that. Fai said: And since when Shinobi world was a democracy fluff? Never. Its strength of mind of leader that decides the the outcomes. Who said anything about the Shinobi world being a "democracy fluff?" You take it from the extreme of tyranny to the extreme on the opposite end of the spectrum. There is an OCEAN of gray between democracy and tyranny. And, a leader can't win a war by himself, he needs his people to win a war. Fai said: "Unless Sasuke kills him before he can be a tyrant" oh god I can't wait to see Saucegay try to do that. Maybe after FOUR fighting fail Sauce will understand on just how ignorant, prideful and weak he is. Yeah, I also can't wait to see him try - and succeed. Sasuke should NOT be underestimated. Fai said: Sayuri-Hime said: Good leaders need to have at least some ounce of human understanding and compassion. In no way does being capable of empathy make one "sugar fluff." There's no place for that in feudal world. One must be strong and one-step ahead than the other leaders. Its the only way to ensure your nation's safety. Just as in the real world, the only way to prevail is to use any means necessary. What?! Are you saying that in the real world people have to lie, corrupt, cheat, steal, and kill in order to prevail? That the ends justify the means? Geez, whatever happened to good old hard work, effort, and determination? What happened to prevailing in an HONEST way? If this was the case, all the successful people in this world would be bad people. I'm sorry, but if you really think that "the only way to prevail is to use any means necessary," you're gonna be in for a tough time. |
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kurodayuchi said: Look what Pain did just to show “the real pain” to everybody. And this AFTER of already knowing the whereabouts of Naruto. Therefore, we can conclude that he would bring havoc to Konoha anyway, hiding Naruto or not – havoc is one of the objectives of Akatsuki as a matter of fact. And he already knew where Naruto was, but he was still going to kill Tsunade… wait, even after knowing Naruto’s location, he didn’t go after him, but rather Naruto that came to Konoha, so I don’t think the plain “wow, Pain, let’s be friends!” would work. You only do nothing when you know that your chances of victory are 0%.It’s pretty stupid to give up when you have high chances of winning, and what Danzou wanted by hiding Naruto wasn’t protect the Kyuubi (actually, as we could see in this chapter, Jinchuuriki are used exactly as weapons for defense of the villages), but rather become Hokage by Tsunade’s death. If I remember correctly what Danzou said was not “let’s minimize the causalities!” but something like “let’s cheer for Pain destroying Konoha so I can be Hokage!” I’m sorry if I don’t see patriotism in it. Danzou just wants power – he doesn’t even care if his reign is a pile of corpses. And he’s such a coward that he didn’t even comprehend that this was the perfect opportunity for him to become Hokage – but in an honorable way. The Yondaime got famous exactly in the times of crisis: he proved his value when he was needed, so everybody acknowledge him as the supreme shinobi. Danzou chose the path of the cowards. While Minato fought the invader and became a legendary Hokage, Danzou played hide and seek for this purpose. If Danzou expelled Pain, the same inhabitants would choose him as The Hokage. Fai said: Because Naruto is exactly the thing Pain wanted to take, It would NOT make sense to bring him here. Of course Naruto still came talk-jutsued pain, Kishi trolled Pain fandom with the flashbacks and etc, but still that all succeeded only because Naruto was strong enough to face him. Had Naruto not been strong enough, letting him come to there would only easen up Pain's job. Humm… So everything you said is correct if we IGNORE the fact that Naruto is strong – pretty convenient don’t you think? Humm… and maybe is exactly because he was strong that Tsunade was so desperately trying to call him? Naruto was the strongest ninja by then, besides being a Jinchuuriki, and everybody knew it. When Danzou killed that frog he wasn’t guarding Konoha – he was destroying the only chance Konoha had. Honorable way does not fits Danzou. He's secretive and NOT very charismatic. He seems to like political wars, but you wouldn't see Danzou smilling, strolling in Konoha and kissing babies. Pretending to be something that he's completely different is not a very good plan. He's clever. No way he would ever mobilize his root members to fight Pain. How many, in Root, would actually be able to fight Pain? Regardless of Root being powerful enough to handle Pain, would Danzou be willing to sacrifice his most "valuabe assets" to protect "this" Konoha? No way. He already manifested his disgust with the previous Hokages ideology, and the majority of Konoha citizens seem share that ideology too. So he he needed such an event like Pain's attack to shock the people, making them susceptible to accept his way and rule. Letting Naruto know and come back could have ruined his plans. What if Naruto was captured or if he had made back in time and defeated/convinced Pain before anything happened to Konoha? It would be really interesting if Danzou doesn't turns out to be the villain a lot of us are expecting him to be. (I'm included). And who knows, maybe he tried to do things in a honourable way before but didn't succeed, so he's doing this way. I'm not a big fan of Danzou's but, that's how the guy is, and he's not bad in what he does. Fai said: Sayuri-Hime said: Danzo is a power-hungry, manipulative old man who cares only about advancing his position in the world. I am sure his reign as Hokage will become tyrannical and his true colors will be obvious to everyone before this is all over. Unless Sasuke kills him before he can be a tyrant. Power-hungry? Yes, as every feudal leader should b e. "Advancing his positioN" - nope. Danzou is a man who does not care about damning himself as long as the country he is working for. His ROOT forecs did a lot of dark things for the sake of Konoha. They and Danzou are the only ones in Konoha who seemingly understand that with only goodie tricks you can't run a country. "I am sure his reign as Hokage will become tyrannical and his true colors will be obvious to everyone before this is all over." And since when Shinobi world was a democracy fluff? Never. Its strength of mind of leader that decides the the outcomes. Hashirima manipulated the world into peace by giving off WMDs to major nations. "Unless Sasuke kills him before he can be a tyrant" oh god I can't wait to see Saucegay try to do that. Maybe after FOUR fighting fail Sauce will understand on just how ignorant, prideful and weak he is. That's one important point in all this. What Danzou truly wants? Does he really care about Konoha and its people? Or He only wants to make Konoha HIS ideal village with him sitted at the top as Hokage? |
R-ZeroJul 31, 2009 2:11 PM
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R-Zero said: He only wants to make Konoha HIS ideal village with him sitted at the top as Hokage? This. I believe. |
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kurodayuchi said: It’s quite hard for my mind to apprehend how letting a guy open a freaking moon’s eye in my village is going to strengthen it. Hummm Correct me if I’m wrong but… Surelly, but village is not the buildings. Pain could have build a christmas treeee there for all I care. Village is people. If there are people to rebuild village and if there is a military strength to protect them then village destruction means nothing. Danzou understood that completely. kurodayuchi said: wasn’t Hashirama the peaceful leader in contrast with Madara the war-lover one? And isn’t this one of the reasons that Danzou hates both The third and Tsunade? Because they’re the followers of his policy? Hashirima was more of manipulator who understood the risks and did what he could to strengthen Konoha. Don't mistake it for the warmonger that is Madara. Madara just wanted wars, wars and wars. he thought that only through fights Konoha can be stronger, that wars strengthen the village. Hashirima, from what I gather, was a planner - "yes a war is a war if its needed, but if I can pull a few strings from behind the shadows the war won't be needed" type of thinking. Sarutobi was a genius at both combat and diplomacy. he did follow the teachings of First, hoping that someday in future the current harsh reality will be different. However he clearly understood the sacrifices needed to be taken in order for village to survive. While not as manipulative as Hashirima, he clearly was a true pupil of the ideas Hashirima had. Tsunade, on other hand, followed the "peace" part of Hashirima's teachings. She was too weak-minded to use a drastic measures or a darker means, often hypocritically turning a blind eye to the workings of Konoha village and thinking that peace-time is right now. Her monologue when pain attacked proved that. kurodayuchi said: Yeah, Tsunade just hurt the feelings of the poor Pain – I soo pity him. When someone invades your territory the wisest thing to do is to invite him for a cup of tea. Yes she did. As powerful as Pain was he was still just a same child who thought that those who do not understand will only learn through pain, When you confront the more powerful opponent, its better NOT to escalate the conflict. Its the basics of diplomacy. A smaller power does not go waving his weapons against the higher power unless he has some sort of plan. Tsunade just blurted out right in the face of the more powerful country that everything they stand for is wrong and that Konoha is the only right thing in this situation. A good leader does NOT put his country in danger just because he does not accept the propaganda of the other country. kurodayuchi said: If helping Naruto develop his Rasengan, If being the only Kage to send missions against Akatsuki Tsunade helping Naruto to develp a Rasengan has nothing to do with her being a kage. Its a duty of older generation to teach new generation. It has nothing to do with the workings of hokage title. As for Akatsuki missions - well, lets see, Akatsuki was not as active before the whole first appearance of Itachi. If a retaliation against akatsuki is well planet by using a lot of gathered information - its all good. However what tsunade did practically equals what bush did when invading Iraq - it only made matters worse. Tsunade might have had the right ideas, but she had no experience to actually execute them and was guided by her hear too much. kurodayuchi said: Is mostly nothing… Yes, Danzou playing hide and seek while the enemy plays Hiroshima and Nagasaki is a role much more proactive. Yes it is. Because that hide and seek made sure that entirety of ROOT is retained after the prime strike of Pain. Just think about this - had he sent everyone to attack Pain and Pain did the same what he did. What if Pain did NOT revive everyone he killed? With kages like Raikage so easily putting a blame on someone, Konoha would have armies of ninja marching towards them in few days, with totally NO military force. So yes retaining the elite military force was a right decision kurodayuchi said: Again, all Danzou’s actions were purely selfish so far, so I can’t see how he’s this great Hokage that you claim. Because all of his actions actually did something good for Konoha. You might not agree with his methods, but everything he did worked in favour of Konoha - retaining elite ninja force, trying to prevent Pain from locating Tailed Beast, etc. kurodayuchi said: If watch your people die for your own ego is a great leader… God help us! No. Great leader knows that sacrifices are necessary for the whole bigger goals to be achieved. Surely certain people would have died in the Pain-Nuke, but Root being intact as organisation and etc would be a whole bigger help for the rebuilding of Konoha than Root being wiped out in the explosion. Watching people die IS what Leaders mostly have to do. you have to be able to deal with that and, if possible use it for the advantage of your own country. You can't save everyone, if you want to save your country. kurodayuchi said: -Humm. Let’s recapture this. The whole crappy childhood that was impost to the Jinchuuriki was for the sake of building a weapon to secure each village. No. Crappy childhood is Minato's fault. Facts: 1. Minato, before the Kyuubi event, planned to leave Naruto alone to grow up, possibly vanishing together with Kushina. 2. He chose to seal Kyuubi in Naruto so village would view Naruto as a hero one day. 3. Sarutobi thought that it was a right thing to do, not telling Naruto about his past So yes, most of shit what happened to Naruto was the fault of Minato and Sarutobi. kurodayuchi said: You’re carrying an AK-47 and then a guy comes to fight you. Yet, instead of using this gun, which’s your only chance of survival, you prefer to hide the Ak cause you’re really scared that the guy may stole it XD. Wrong comparison. You are carrying an AK-47 and guy in A TANK comes to fight you. So instead of pointlessly shooting at the tank, you hide your weapon, wait till tank goes away and use your weapon to strike at the footsoldiers. kurodayuchi said: Do I have to say once again that what Danzou said was not “Let’s protect the Bijuu”, but rather: “Screw Konoha – I want to have power?” Its called multitasking. Going against that guy with all of my troops for now would be futile > Screw village - the people will survive anyway, since they are evacuated. > Hopefully Tsunade dies there, so I can do what I think is right for Konoha. kurodayuchi said: Seriously?! It seems to me something more like: “my people should be ready to go to hell for me, as Pain was killing them”. Do not misunderstand, I am not talking about the literal hell(considering there's no literal hell). I am talking about being damned by his own people. Danzou is ready to take the blame if needed for the means he uses, as long as these means bring the results. kurodayuchi said: If I am not wrong, Pain wanted to show real pain to people. I don’t see how he would be able to do this by… Pain had exact mission to retrieve Naruto. He was there to get Naruto without revealing his own capabilities, obviously. Pain had no reason to blow anything up to that extent, unless someone else pissed him off. kurodayuchi said: Knock, Knock -Is Naruto there? - No, he isn’t. - Ok, I come back later. ???????? More like: Pain gathers the information on Naruto's location. Mission complete. Pain leaves the current location without revealing any of the wildcards he may have. kurodayuchi said: What great tactic decision? You claimed that he was guarding Konoha’s main forces, but in fact it was only Naruto. He made sure all the forces under his command survive intact. He made sure the tailed beast stays intact and in possession of Konoha. He made sure the organisational structure of ROOT stays intact. kurodayuchi said: Kakashi is elite, but he couldn’t care less by his death or any other character that was perishing. Kakashi? ELITE? Surely he is strong, but he is nowhere near "elite". And Danzou had no control over Kakashi, remember? Kakashi is NOT under his control, thus Danzou made sure that the elite forces under HIS CONTROL survive. kurodayuchi said: Honestly: do I really need to post here the page in which Danzou is saying screw Konoha, I want to be Hokage? But then you will have to show me the page that he said “I want to keep my people alive!”. It does not have to be WRITTEN in manga to be clear. Danzou did many things with one movie, just as every leader would. kurodayuchi said: He didn’t have to fight and unbeatable enemy – btw did you see that Danzou is not just an old guy, right? And he, as experienced person, would have figured out that he has no chances against the leader of international organisation of whose capabilities he has no information, except for the fact that he knows that one of Three Great already fell against him. kurodayuchi said: – but he didn’t have to stop the coming of Konoha’s only hope. He’s a great tactician, nobody can deny it, but I don’t saw his decision as the option that allowed the survival of most people. Konoha's only hope in shounen sense for sure is Naruto. However in reality and in Danzou's mind, Konoha;s only hope was to survive the Pain attack with as less casualties as possible. Launching an unstable tailed beast user in the middle of your town to fight a person who can slaughter thousands in second(as Danzou saw in t he past) is not a good idea. kurodayuchi said: Yes, she should praise him. No, she should stay silent. What she did is the same as if JFK would suddenly have punched some Russian higher-up in face during the cold-war. kurodayuchi said: 1. Akatsuki’s goal are not to create havoc. 2. Akatsuki's goals are to create a series of events similar to Hiroshima Events similar to Hiroshima seem a pretty good havoc to me. Means =/= Ends kurodayuchi said: Are you sure that the “plus” I not the main thing? There's no "main things" in that plan. All the things he achieved with that move are equally important. kurodayuchi said: Yes, the guy has the most powerful Bijuu, is the son of Yondaime, disciple of Jiraya, went to a super training and everybody was hoping that he would become weaker. No one could expect? Don’t you remember that Tobi foresaw this? And sending that Jinchiruuki against the owner of Rinnegan, who: - comes in six pieces at once, - who slaughtered huge army right in front of your eyes in the past - who killed off arguably superior teacher of the aforementioned Tailed Beast Owner - who killed off the strongest person you knew, who was regarded as strongest ninja Should be the "wise decision"? Yes, No one could expect it. kurodayuchi said: + Don’t you think is weird that Tobi sent Pain to Konoha exactly when Naruto wasn’t around, mainly if we consider that Zetsu somehow knows everything that happens in Konoha? So we can assume that Tobi’s real objective wasn’t to capture Naruto – the same way Tobi knew Itachi wouldn’t do it? Tobi did not "send" Pain when Naruto was not in village. When he did that Naruto WAS in village. And by that the whole argument you had fails down. kurodayuchi said: Pretty morbid, aren’t you? Yes, it cannot be denied that every nation has deaths in its history. However, it’s something that’s temporal. No. It happens again and again and again. So far people never learned. kurodayuchi said: Naruto’s world already saw three great shinobi wars and these battles were exactly to set peace. Our world already saw two world wars and thousands of gruesome battles in the past and all the wars were for "peace". kurodayuchi said: But, as in our world, there are some who make some profit with it, so they want never-ending battles, like Danzou, Mandara, etc. Madara for sure, but Danzou? there's nothing to indicate that he is a warmonger. kurodayuchi said: Tsunade: Development of the Jinchuuriki, Has nothing to do with being a Kage. kurodayuchi said: missions against Akatsuki And those missions were poorly planned and gave off no results. kurodayuchi said: missions against Orochimiru (who’s an acquiatance of Danzou btw) Which would be the prime objective of any kage after Sarutobi. kurodayuchi said: Mission to search for Sasuke, Which is why she failed as Kage. You do not search for missing nins. You search and kill the missing nins. kurodayuchi said: fighting against Pain, Which caused Konoha to go boom. kurodayuchi said: nursing the inhabitants. which is the duty of medical ninja and NOT Hokage. kurodayuchi said: Are you sure it was just his techniques? Yes, he would still be the supreme ninja if his history consisted in playing poker… his actions are totally irrelevant. . Yes he was a GENIUS and LEGENDARY Ninja because of his talents and not because of his sacrifice. Because of his sacrifice he was a hero of the citiziens. kurodayuchi said: There’s a difference between a Hokage and a legendary one. I don’t think Danzou will have this adjective. Yes, Because Danzou does not need FAME. He wants to do what he thinks is right for Fire Country. kurodayuchi said: ?????????????????????-_-????????????? Can’t you decide? -He’s famous for 1 -He’s famous for 2, not for 1 S= impossible Famous =/= Legendary/Respected ;] kurodayuchi said: Please read again and see that Tobi could see this. Danzou only stopped the frog because he knew Naruto could beat Pain. He didn’t want anybody to interfere in TsunadexPain for he knew the outcome. Thats a 100% assumption. kurodayuchi said: So do you think everybody was saying: “Naruto Kaerou!” because they liked its sound? Yes. People like to have a celebrity heroes, thinking that they will solve all their problems. kurodayuchi said: When you know that you are going to die, and is inevitable, you can only say to people that you care to run away No. You plan out on how much of manforce you can sacrifice so the bigger/more_important part survives. kurodayuchi said: - especially the “weak” Tsunade, isn’t? She wouldn’t say, “let’s die together, bro”. She literally said to Pain that Naruto was strong. Naruto learned The Fourth technique when he was still a kid (and in only one week). He has the nine tailed beats within himself, he has been training with Kakashi, Jiraya and the frogs since then… yeah: It was really unpredictable. You can never disregard the chances of winning from a huge chakra monster. And Pain answered by blowing up a village. Oh how much did Tsunade's childish blabber help~ kurodayuchi said: Tsunade was wrong – calling Naruto was a terrible idea. Naruto came and beat Pain.?????? Yes. Even if he beat Pain, tactically it was a terrible idea. Now if one had a 100% proof that Naruto could defeat Pain, then it would be tactically good idea. kurodayuchi said: You’re judging Danzou merely by his pseudo altruistic actions, right? Yes because we did not see anything like where he is laughing evilly about how evil he is. kurodayuchi said: Something like Machiavelli: the end justifies the means, right? That is the truth of the world, actually. (btw its not Machiavelli. Its the main idea of consequentialism ) kurodayuchi said: 1.Tsunade called naruto. Naruto won the fight 2.Danzou let his people die for his own egoistic reasons How’s the really objective one here? 1. Tsunade placed Jinchiruuki, possibly last one active at risk, provoked the enemy into blowing up the village and etc just because she was trying to use good means. 2. Danzou protected his military forces, tried to place Jinchiruuki as far away as possible from Pain and etc BECAUSE he was looking at what will come after this situation. kurodayuchi said: Again, the most powerful jinchuuriki, son of Yondaime, disciple of Kakashi and Jiraya, etc, etc. Son of Yondaime - means nothing in relation of current strength, if only that he is too valuable to be wasted. the most powerful jinchiruuki - which he can't control. which is the last one not-captured. Makes sense to keep it far away from the organisation that is trying to capture it. Disciple of Kakashi - Kakashi just got defeated, whats the point of sending his pupil to fight? Disciple of Jiraya - Jiraya died against the enemy, what are the chances that his A LOT younger and FAR LESS experienced pupil would win. kurodayuchi said: But if everybody was so wrong in trusting Naruto – How were they right in the end? They were LUCKY. Not right, not wrong. Just LUCKY. kurodayuchi said: obs: If you are not going to bring a new argument or at least something that has the minimum of factual basis and it’s not just your idealization of Danzou, don’t even bother, I won’t read it - nobody will. Bringing the usual "we" aren't we? Well if you ran out of arguments, just stop, nobody will punch you for that, kid. Sayuri-Hime said: How can that be called "no big deal?" Of course it's a big deal, the people of the town are suffering and dying (though resurrected in the end)! These are human lives we are talking about. Sacrificing a few for wellbeing of many - I see nothing wrong in that. Human lives are just numbers in the game. Sayuri-Hime said: Eh? Since when has Danzo ever cared about anything besides becoming the Hokage? Last I checked, that's called advancing your position. "Goodie tricks?" Define "goodie tricks," and exactly how do you run a country then? You act like you know all about that. You run country by using any means necessary to strengthen it against whatever can come in future. Danzo cares about the country he is serving. he is loyal and willing to do anything for it. Sayuri-Hime said: Who said anything about the Shinobi world being a "democracy fluff?" You take it from the extreme of tyranny to the extreme on the opposite end of the spectrum. There is an OCEAN of gray between democracy and tyranny. And the current morals do not apply to feudal world. Sayuri-Hime said: And, a leader can't win a war by himself, he needs his people to win a war. Hence why Danzou keeping his military force intact was the right decision. Sayuri-Hime said: Yeah, I also can't wait to see him try - and succeed. Sasuke should NOT be underestimated. Itachi. Killerbee. Madara. Sasuke is full of fail. His pride and unquestionable hatred is stagnating his potential. He does not realize that, but he is NOTHING but a weak sacrificial puppet of Madara's. Sayuri-Hime said: What?! Are you saying that in the real world people have to lie, corrupt, cheat, steal, and kill in order to prevail? Thats what we do after all. The stronger, the smarter prevail, creating a stairs out of corpses of the weak. Sayuri-Hime said: That the ends justify the means? Yes. Sayuri-Hime said: Geez, whatever happened to good old hard work, effort, and determination? It got left somewhere in propaganda. Sayuri-Hime said: What happened to prevailing in an HONEST way? It got left somewhere in propaganda. Sayuri-Hime said: If this was the case, all the successful people in this world would be bad people. There's no good and bad in the world. There's no "GOOD" people in the world. Everyone has skeletons in their closet. Sayuri-Hime said: I'm sorry, but if you really think that "the only way to prevail is to use any means necessary," you're gonna be in for a tough time. Thats how life goes. |
AhenshihaelJul 31, 2009 2:34 PM
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| Fai you are so annoying. Can someone write a short recap of what happened in this chapter? I'm a little confused. |
p r o f i l e 👀 |
| Those are some f'ing long ass posts. I kinda liked this chapter. Nice discussion among the kages and then sakura having the obvious pointed out to her from the most dense character. I couldn't figure out that was sasori at first because it looked like a cloaked gaara but he was in the back. but now that i'm aware it's sasori, that's pretty cool. And that'd be weird to let the newest kage have power. one would think they'd let someone with more "kaging" experience take lead. but of course that wouldn't help plot progression. /shrug |
Fai said: Human lives are just numbers in the game. This leads me to believe you have no respect for life. Fai said: Sayuri-Hime said: What?! Are you saying that in the real world people have to lie, corrupt, cheat, steal, and kill in order to prevail? Thats what we do after all. The stronger, the smarter prevail, creating a stairs out of corpses of the weak. Don't presume to include all of humanity in "we." There are plenty of people who can prevail WITHOUT "creating a stair of corpses of the weak." Fai said: There's no good and bad in the world. There's no "GOOD" people in the world. Everyone has skeletons in their closet. I didn't say people are perfect, of course we all have skeletons in our closets. But overall, I think most people are inherently good. Other than that, I'm finished with this conversation. THE END. |
AikaHimeJul 31, 2009 4:50 PM
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Naruleach said: Can someone write a short recap of what happened in this chapter? I'm a little confused. Quick Recap: The meeting of the five kages has commenced and there is some serious tension in the air. The plan is to defeat Akatsuki by uniting the five villages and giving one person military authority over all. Unfortunately, Danzo has been nominated for this position. > X P |
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| they did WHAT?!?!?!?! ugh, things are going waaaaay too smoothly for Danzo. and go Sai for telling Sakura stuff. hmm... and yeah the previous Mizukage kinda looks like Tobi... and we know that the Mizukage has connections to Akatsuki... and i'm pretty sure Tobi didn't appear until after the events in the village of the rain? hmm. |
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| Reality check Sakura! xD I hope Danzo get's the power just to see what will happen next. Naruto only appeared in flashbacks. lol :D |
Fai said: Fai said: Just for the sake of space1.- Danzou is currently the most realistic and best character in Naruto-verse 2.- WE, As we won't read anymore your rants, or as I should exactly quote kurodayuchi "- nobody will" was wrong, and 3.- We live in a harsh reality... We have to bear and deal we it, don't we?, That pretty much encloses both above... And yes I'm contradicting myself.... I have to face it XD 1 Yes Danzou is one of the best characters right now... Yes he uses inhuman ways to achieve his goals... Yes he's currently the best tactician... Yes he knows what he's dealing with, and hoe to deal with it... But let's face it.... He ain't oen of the more likable characters XD 2 Yup there will be always someone that do exactly the opposite thing that you would do... So let's not enclose everyone in this And 3 Yes many want an utopia happening.... but it's impossible... As long as differences, whichever the nature of the difference is, the world many want is impossible.... besides... let's leave aside morals and that kind of stuff... It's obvious it's hard to sort out morals in this space... BTW this is fiction... So who cares and also... Yeh I liked when the Kages' bodyguards poped out from nowhere and immediately protected their respective Kage.... Kewl scene... And that made me yearn for more action... I want action pleaseeeeeS!!! Signs, Green PS: Please read wholeheartedly.... This' for those who want's two join the discussion... And There ain't a limit for posts? Like character limit? There should be!!! that would make things easier for the servers XD |
rebwatersJul 31, 2009 4:22 PM
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| ^^ just read the thing about Danzo being the most realistic and best character... Danzo was just a forgotten plot device that Kishimoto suddenly remembered to pick up again. Before this arc, he wasn't really developed, he was just this evil old guy who's against the Third. And now, suddenly, he's the best character in Naruto? Where did that fully fleshed, three-dimensional character, suddenly appear from? There are 458 chapters of Naruto, and Danzo is the best character right now? Let's get things in perspective now. Kishimoto is a mangaka, not a magician (notice the lame attempt to retroactively hype up Danzo this chapter). |
| is it just me or does danzo seem like Hitler. |
| Believe in me that believes in you. |
MeLcHoR said: Reality check Sakura! xD I hope Danzo get's the power just to see what will happen next. Naruto only appeared in flashbacks. lol :D I haven't thought in this side XD It is totally true and gets to be funny XD I still hate Danzo After all >.>; |
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fisher_88 said: Oh well... what can we do... That happens... Again... It's human nature after all... May be a lame comparison, but tell me, how can we like/dislike a character in a few panels/scenes in a manga and/or anime... And at the moment this my POV... and more or less, Fai's too...^^ just read the thing about Danzo being the most realistic and best character... Danzo was just a forgotten plot device that Kishimoto suddenly remembered to pick up again. Before this arc, he wasn't really developed, he was just this evil old guy who's against the Third. And now, suddenly, he's the best character in Naruto? Where did that fully fleshed, three-dimensional character, suddenly appear from? There are 458 chapters of Naruto, and Danzo is the best character right now? Let's get things in perspective now. Kishimoto is a mangaka, not a magician (notice the lame attempt to retroactively hype up Danzo this chapter). Signs, Green |
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| What a touchy bunch of bastarads Tsuchikage & Raikage need to chill the f*ck out! I suppose the meeting was good for something. But what's the point of this massive army? Up to this point, Konoha has done most of the work in wiping these guys out. Sasori, Hidan & Kakuzu, Pain. Sasuke was former Konoha & he took out Deidara & (by default) Itachi. I hope it was misinterpreted and they're sending a task or mercenary force(s) instead. I don't understand why it seems like such a big surprise to Sakura when Naruto's feelings are "revealed" to her. Maybe its because she's played ignorant all this time or because Sai blatantly called her out for being the burden she tends to be. But I thought a bright girl like her would have caught on by now. |
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| Of course this is probably what Danzo wants, control over the five great nations. Jeeze, he's so annoying. And what's with the Sakura and Naruto thing? Did Kishimoto forget that Hinata confessed to Naruto? I can't wait for that to resurface again. |
| I don't need to 'get a life.' I'm a gamer, I have lots of lives! |
shinigami_san said: And what's with the Sakura and Naruto thing? Did Kishimoto forget that Hinata confessed to Naruto? I can't wait for that to resurface again. Hey yeah, what the hell happened with Hinata? She FINALLY confessed, she sacrificed her life to protect him, was resurrected and then POOF! She disappears. Frankly, I'd rather see Naruto with her than with Sakura, but - I highly doubt that will happen. |
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| Wow...there was some heated discussion. Didn't read though it all, but I pretty much caught the gist of it. My one opinion about Danzou and Pain's invasion: The fact that Danzou left his people at risk to total annihilation (yes, Tsunade's decision might of led to this outcome, but what's past is past and you must deal with the present) is not the quality of any good leader. And this wasn't the typical "sacrifice a few to save the greater good." No, the entire hidden leaf village was at risk and the fact that Danzou did absolutely nothing to ensure the safety of his citizens really doesn't put him in the "good leader" portion of my book. |
Yagami-Teru said: snakea said: is it just me or does Danzo seem like Hitler. Honesty, that is a terrible comparison. actually thats a really good comparison. we just don't know yet if he'll screw everyone over with his new gained power or put it to good use. for all we kno he could basically start a mass genocide and start betraying everyone. its naruto... seriously... anything could happen. |
| FINALLY, Sai tells Sakura what a major Bitch she has been since day one. Also I absolutely DO NOT WANT TO SEE a Naruto X Sakura ending, Sakura is a mean bitch who has really never accepted Naruto, it would just be lame to see them end up together, obviously Naruto X Hinata makes more sense, not to mention Hinata has liked Naruto since the beginning. |
snakea said: is it just me or does danzo seem like Hitler. GODWIN'S LAW is officially in play. |
| GAARA!!!!!! |
xdzzz said: Yagami-Teru said: snakea said: is it just me or does Danzo seem like Hitler. Honesty, that is a terrible comparison. actually thats a really good comparison. we just don't know yet if he'll screw everyone over with his new gained power or put it to good use. for all we kno he could basically start a mass genocide and start betraying everyone. its naruto... seriously... anything could happen. basing a comparison on what we don't know and how anything can happen - talk about terrible! |
| lol I love Sai in just a couple pages he managed to tell Sakura what we've all wanted her to realise since forever ago. Also I'm saddened because I was hoping Tsunade would come to and foil Danzo's plans (I know it was asking for the imposible but what ever). |
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| The best part in that chapter for me has to be when Gaara got called a "Cheeky Brat", thats the first time we've seen Gaara use sarcasm! Actually, it was quite interesting to find out the 4th Mizukage was the 3 Tails' Jinchuuriki. What makes it more interesting now is trying to figure out what happened to him since he could apparantly "control" the beast well. Sai telling Sakura, it was kinda sweet! You can tell that Sai has truely formed a bond with Naruto, he understands how he feels. I still hope for a NaruHina finish but with Sakura crying like that then I just wonder how the relationships will go! It was kinda obvious Danzo would be the leader, he is currently the suspected villan of the show so it had to be him. Also, the only Kage that holds importance in the manga is Gaara and I dont think they would let him lead cause of his age! |
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