Insertanamehere said: It'd be plenty weaker than the original. That said, a mutual kill wasn't his threat there anyway. It was killing Rin and Shirou from the result of the exchange. He did say "I could take you with me" though. Also if that really would have killed Shirou and Rin, why didn't the clash between Excalibur and Enuma Elish kill Shirou in Fate route? |
 |
Izanaginookami said: hoo, so this rule doesn't apply to other universe like Kaleid because Kuro was able to project Excalibur She has unlimited prana. It still applies. Grey-Zone said: mira-nyan said: And Archer was bluffing. He said himself that he can't make an exact copy, but he could certainly make a sword that "is close" and that can shoot a "beam" that is strong enough to At most, it's a bit weaker than the original, but he CAN do it. It's only questionable if it would really "result in a mutual kill" if he used it on Saber, while Saber uses her own beam. He's not copying the sword. He's copying a fragment of it. Do you really think he could copy the world? |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: He's not copying the sword. He's copying a fragment of it. Do you really think he could copy the world? He copies only the part that makes him able to shoot a giant "beamu". He doesn't need the excessive parts. |
|
Grey-Zone said: mira-nyan said: He's not copying the sword. He's copying a fragment of it. Do you really think he could copy the world? He copies only the part that makes him able to shoot a giant "beamu". Which is literally any part but the hilt and below because that's all the sword does. Like I said;fragment. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| then what about this? at the end of HF |
 |
mira-nyan said: Which is literally any part but the hilt and below because that's all the sword does. Like I said;fragment. Then what's the problem? It's not like Shirou or Archer would use it for anything else, aside from shooting the "beamu" or the Fate-route style "using it together with the wielder (Saber)". He can still do it though and that was my point. Izanaginookami said: then what about this? at the end of HF After quite some retcons, that is what it appearntly is ment to be, yes. |
|
Grey-Zone said: mira-nyan said: Which is literally any part but the hilt and below because that's all the sword does. Like I said;fragment. Then what's the problem? It's not like Shirou or Archer would use it for anything else, aside from shooting the "beamu" or the Fate-route style "using it together with the wielder (Saber)". He can still do it though and that was my point. Yes, and my point was that he's not tracing the actual sword. Izanaginookami said: then what about this? at the end of HF Yes, it is. Actually, it's more like he tried to project it and it ended in a beamu. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| but it's still different from Ea, because Shirou can't even analyze it while he can project a fragment of Excalibur or is Excalibur an exception due to the link between Saber and Shirou? |
|
Izanaginookami said: but it's still different from Ea, because Shirou can't even analyze it while he can project a fragment of Excalibur or is Excalibur an exception due to the link between Saber and Shirou? Fate/complete said: Q: What is the limit of replication in UBW? The highest level of NP (sword types) is probably Ea, but while it might be impossible for Shirou, could Archer make it? Also, under the meaning of weapons, to what extent can he make modern weapons? Must it be only blade types or can he make guns and mobile weapons? A: Divine constructs like Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable. There might be some degraded NPs with similar performance in stock though. Also, since sword is becoming his origin, the weapons that he has stored are fundamentally limited to close combat. |
| thanks, wonder if Archer has a sword similar to Ea though well now I'm satisfied, good night FAQs like that would be pretty useful |
|
Fate/complete said: [/quote]Q: What is the limit of replication in UBW? The highest level of NP (sword types) is probably Ea, but while it might be impossible for Shirou, could Archer make it? Also, under the meaning of weapons, to what extent can he make modern weapons? Must it be only blade types or can he make guns and mobile weapons? A: Divine constructs like Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable. There might be some degraded NPs with similar performance in stock though. Also, since sword is becoming his origin, the weapons that he has stored are fundamentally limited to close combat. Though Archer managed to copy Rho Aias that cannot be qualify as a sword nor is even a material thing so How? If i understood well Shirou abilities(aka trace on) are structure analysis(+ability understanding), shaping(projection) and hardening(+matter creation) moreover he can give an history/essence for his creation or rather he uses this history/essence as a blueprint so that in the end he can reproduce the body and what he understood of the 'soul' of the sword. So with those abilities If he can create a beam-launcher-excalibahr too he should be able to make guns, materializing a small piece of metal and making a burst of mana to propulse it like what he always do with his swords. I suppose he just likes sword too much and the materializing of swords comes more natural for him than anything else~ To some extent i believe it could be possible for him to create his own Ea with the tools he has(Caladbolg could provide a good start), after all he can reproduce imperfect version of exalibur and Avalon (noting that he cannot create holy/cursed class weps) with more or less the same abilities whereas they are not made by men. +Even High class weps can be more faithfully replicated inside UBW. And btw more questions~ [spoiler ending ubw] -No one knows what could have been Shirou first origin before Avalon? -The sword Saber is always fighting with is excalibur right? but doesn't she could have her first sword Caliburn as a NP too? She also used a holy spear in her life. lol after thinking about it i just realized that Caliburn is the sword of Saber Lily, each sword is defining a Saber~ So does it makes the Saber at the end off the Fate route become a Lily Saber as she emotionally retake a hold of this sword? -Does Avalon was made of Caliburn fragments since they have pretty much the same ability? -Saber has a magic core granted by her mixed dragon blood that is supposed to create prana so would not that allow her to stay in the world whitout a master? |
Lap1Jun 14, 2015 6:55 PM
 |
| as for saber not having caliburn when she's summoned. i'm pretty sure this has to do with fame. Saber is most famous for wielding Excalibur therefore it will be her default sword. as for her lance. once again she was summoned as a Saber it's a trade off. other examples include Diarmuid not getting his twin swords, Cu Chulain not just up and spamming rune magic. etc. remember that Servants are NOT heroic spirits. they are merely copies of heroic spirits placed into a "servant container" these containers being labeled with their classes. and this label dictating what is available to them ranging from nerfing and buffing some things or even outright not letting them have access to some things. |
WrongPriest said: If Rider becomes closer to her Gorgon form the more she uses monstrous strength, could she go full Gorgon during a HGW war? I mean, she'd probably kill her own master afterwards. HA spoilers: |
FakePriest said: -No one knows what could have been Shirou first origin before Avalon? Yeah, I don't think anyone knows this cuz Shirou became a magus after having Avalon put in him. No, Shirou had Magic Circuits before Avalon. -The sword Saber is always fighting with is excalibur right? but doesn't she could have her first sword Caliburn as a NP too? She also used a holy spear in her life. lol after thinking about it i just realized that Caliburn is the sword of Saber Lily, each sword is defining a Saber~ So does it makes the Saber at the end off the Fate route become a Lily Saber as she emotionally retake a hold of this sword? No, Caliburn broke. She can't use it as an NP. However, she can also be summoned in a Lancer class. -Does Avalon was made of Caliburn fragments since they have pretty much the same ability? Avalon and Caliburn do not have the same ability. And no, they're not remotely the same. Pretty sure you got Avalon mixed up with Gram and or Excalibur. |
mira-pyonJun 14, 2015 11:38 PM
The sun is a deadly laser |
WrongPriest said: astroprogs said: HA spoilers: Was that from that one scene in the woods behind the temple with the cool eyes CG? I might have to go read it again. Yup, the one that ends with Avenger's monologue. |
| I have a question: How does Gae Bolg exactly work? Because is should be a spear that reverse cause and effect, an unavoidable strike and yet both Saber and Archer could block it or at least survive |
|
frenze12 said: Actually i believe that the reason why saber could not have Caliburn has more do with her being a "special" case. She is still alive afterall and not actually a heroic spirit yet due to her contract and at that time Caliburn was broken already. I believe if she would have been a "normal" heroic spirit It would have been possible to summon a younger version of her that still wielded caliburn simular how a younger version of Li Shuwen could be summoned in fate extra. Just a brain teaser but not impossible i think. Nope. Li Shuwen case depends on CLASS he is summoned to. Its still the same data. Izanaginookami said: I have a question: How does Gae Bolg exactly work? Because is should be a spear that reverse cause and effect, an unavoidable strike and yet both Saber and Archer could block it or at least survive Archer "survives" the THROWN version(does not have causality effect, but still always pierces the target) Saber had high luck stat(Luck is pretty much low level reality warping) and even then it most likely would not work again frenze12 said: Actually i believe that the reason why saber could not have Caliburn has more do with her being a "special" case. She is still alive afterall and not actually a heroic spirit yet due to her contract and at that time Caliburn was broken already. I believe if she would have been a "normal" heroic spirit It would have been possible to summon a younger version of her that still wielded caliburn simular how a younger version of Li Shuwen could be summoned in fate extra. Just a brain teaser but not impossible i think. Nope. Li Shuwen case depends on CLASS he is summoned to. Its still the same data. Izanaginookami said: I have a question: How does Gae Bolg exactly work? Because is should be a spear that reverse cause and effect, an unavoidable strike and yet both Saber and Archer could block it or at least survive Archer "survives" the THROWN version(does not have causality effect, but still always pierces the target) Saber had high luck stat(Luck is pretty much low level reality warping) and even then it most likely would not work again frenze12 said: Something that has been bothering me for a while: The axe rock that berserker used in this HGW, just what exactly is it? It ain't a NB but it could still match NB's regardless? Does that mean mundane weapons wielded by heroic spirits can match against NB's? I mean even Archer's broken caladbolg failed to destroy the axe... Did Nasu "dun goofed" again? Its made from the stone from his temple, so it still has conceptual strength, its just not an NP. His own skill at fighting is though, conceptually(same with Assassin who is using a "normal" sword). NP is not needed to fight or hurt a servant. You just need a conceptually strong something to be able to contest the "legend" you are fighting against. |
 |
Izanaginookami said: I have a question: How does Gae Bolg exactly work? Because is should be a spear that reverse cause and effect, an unavoidable strike and yet both Saber and Archer could block it or at least survive Saber has a very Luck stat, so she simply got extremely lucky in that she was able to survive a blow. Like rolling a die and getting the 6 you want. Chances are that it wouldn't have happened again. As for Archer, even though Lancer was much stronger, Archer was keeping him at a range so that he wouldn't be able to use the short-ranged version, meaning that Lancer had to switch to the thrown version instead. While it's still the same NP, it acts differently when thrown, in that it becomes like an Anti-Army cannon that aims for the heart in a straight line. This meant that Archer could block it by using Rho Aias, his greatest shield. In that second fight, a paradox actually occurred - Gae Bolg is an unstoppable force, whereas Rho Aias is an immovable object. The ultimate attack versus the ultimate defense. Quite epic when you think about it~ |
 |
| thanks for the explanation, it came in mind because in F/HA I just saw Gae Bolg vs Fragarach |
|
| then about Heracles NP, he can't be killed twice by the same weapon or the same NP? Take Gae Bolg for example: if it was weapon, Lancer could kill him only one time But if it was NP Lancer could kill him two times: one with the anti-unit and another with the anti-army |
|
| Question Time : 1. After UBW end, can I just read the summary of HF (and read the manga) in the Type-Moin wiki? I am really looking forward watching FZ. 2. Who is the most popular male servant in FS? Archer, Gil or Lancer? |
| F0XFIRE said: OP 4 most butthurt bitch on MAL. |
Izanaginookami said: then about Heracles NP, he can't be killed twice by the same weapon or the same NP? Take Gae Bolg for example: if it was weapon, Lancer could kill him only one time But if it was NP Lancer could kill him two times: one with the anti-unit and another with the anti-army Herc can only be killed by A Rank or higher weapons Same weapon works on him only one time. Then immunity develops. Since Gae Bolg always reaches the heart, it could kill him once despite not meeting the rank. |
|
| Then Herc can be killed only by NP like GoB or UBW, or by weapons that kill him more thatn one time like Caliburn? |
|
| Yeah. Weapons that kill him one time can still kill him though-just once. |
Izanaginookami said: Then Herc can be killed only by NP like GoB or UBW, or by weapons that kill him more thatn one time like Caliburn? Weapons that hit multiple etimes can kill multiple times as long as they manage to kill him multiple times before godhand reforms. Needless to say there are not many of that kind. |
|
peeyaj said: Question Time : 1. After UBW end, can I just read the summary of HF (and read the manga) in the Type-Moin wiki? I am really looking forward watching FZ. Have you played the Fate route or watched a play-through of it on youtube first? If not, do that first and DO NOT under any circumstances look at any of the Heaven Feel content if you're an anime only viewer. |
 All credit goes to Sacred. |
FireEmblemIke24 said: peeyaj said: Question Time : 1. After UBW end, can I just read the summary of HF (and read the manga) in the Type-Moin wiki? I am really looking forward watching FZ. Have you played the Fate route or watched a play-through of it on youtube first? If not, do that first and DO NOT under any circumstances look at any of the Heaven Feel content if you're an anime only viewer. 1. I just read the summary of Fate route in the wiki and watch bits of it on the Deen version. I put hold FZ for more than a year now and I just want to finish it quick once the UBW adaptation ends. |
| F0XFIRE said: OP 4 most butthurt bitch on MAL. |
peeyaj said: FireEmblemIke24 said: Have you played the Fate route or watched a play-through of it on youtube first? If not, do that first and DO NOT under any circumstances look at any of the Heaven Feel content if you're an anime only viewer. 1. I just read the summary of Fate route in the wiki and watch bits of it on the Deen version. I put hold FZ for more than a year now and I just want to finish it quick once the UBW adaptation ends. If you think that a sub-optimal experience now is better than an almost optimal experience years from now (after HF comes out), go ahead, I find nothing wrong with this reasoning. |
 |
FakePriest said: mira-nyan said: No, Shirou had Magic Circuits before Avalon. Yeah so? Shirou himself only knew about about magic after having Avalon put in him so he couldn't have checked his origin before. And I doubt anyone else would even realise he's a magus to check his origin. Tohsaka never realised he was one even though she stayed in the same school for years. And having magic circuits only doesn't automatically make u a magus. I didn't say he was a magus; I said he had magic circuits. I didn't even say he was a magecraft user. Seriously... -_- |
The sun is a deadly laser |
FakePriest said: mira-nyan said: No, Shirou had Magic Circuits before Avalon. This "No" means what then ? I didn't say he didn't have magic circuits before Avalon. Well, that's what I thought you meant - that he didn't have circuits before Avalon was put in him. I mean, he was never a magus, so I thought you had said it instead of magecraft user, or something. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
About shirou first origin: i'd think that even if your never activated your circuits they woud already have a specialization. And his first origin couldn't be something completely unrelated to the one he has now, even if Avalon influenced it it would not changed it for something else far from his basic nature, either it would redirect it or would just add him a extra affinity to something. Too bad noone asked if Nasu could said something about it~ About Caliburn, it is said that when Arturia pulled it from the stone she stops aging. Otherwise, Why f/sn Lancer is THAT liked and That popular?, the poll make him the 1st man (with Archer) of Fsn, I mean he is a bloody killer, didn't he kill innocents people and would rather prefer to stop battling to go kill witnesses without giving a damn? |
|
| Maybe because almost everyone likes dogs |
|
Lap1 said: About shirou first origin: i'd think that even if your never activated your circuits they woud already have a specialization. And his first origin couldn't be something completely unrelated to the one he has now, even if Avalon influenced it it would not changed it for something else far from his basic nature, either it would redirect it or would just add him a extra affinity to something. Too bad noone asked if Nasu could said something about it~ About Caliburn, it is said that when Arturia pulled it from the stone she stops aging. Otherwise, Why f/sn Lancer is THAT liked and That popular?, the poll make him the 1st man (with Archer) of Fsn, I mean he is a bloody killer, didn't he kill innocents people and would rather prefer to stop battling to go kill witnesses without giving a damn? Because sometimes soldiers have to do unpleasant things when ordered to, but instead of going all emo like Archer, he bucked the fuck up and made the best of bad circumstances, that is why Lancer is awesome.......also warp spasm........warp spasm...... This should give you some idea of how awesome Lancer is: |
Dug_FinJun 15, 2015 12:28 PM
| I'll change this as soon as I think of something clever. |
Lap1 said: I mean he is a bloody killer, didn't he kill innocents people and would rather prefer to stop battling to go kill witnesses without giving a damn? what |
FakePriest said: lel look at them all defend Lancer. Lancer may have done that(don't know if he actually did) but he wouldn't have rather done that. Lancer does everything his King orders him to. That's why. He's really loyal to his king. wait what |
FakePriest said: What do u want stev? what're u complaining about? Lap1 was talking about the prologue, when he killed Shirou, not his life. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: FakePriest said: What do u want stev? what're u complaining about? Lap1 was talking about the prologue, when he killed Shirou, not his life. No, I'm sure he's just complaining, heh, regardless, I think I answered it pretty well. |
| I'll change this as soon as I think of something clever. |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) 2nd Season Episode 13 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Luna - Jun 20, 2015 |
1406 |
by Alvie48xi
»»
Sep 10, 9:45 AM |
|
Poll: » Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) 2nd Season Episode 12 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Luna - Jun 13, 2015 |
1582 |
by Alvie48xi
»»
Sep 10, 8:38 AM |
|
Poll: » Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) 2nd Season Episode 10 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Luna - May 30, 2015 |
970 |
by Alvie48xi
»»
Sep 9, 11:00 AM |
|
Poll: » Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) 2nd Season Episode 9 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Luna - May 23, 2015 |
985 |
by Alvie48xi
»»
Sep 9, 10:18 AM |
|
Poll: » Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) 2nd Season Episode 8 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Luna - May 17, 2015 |
1454 |
by Alvie48xi
»»
Sep 9, 7:49 AM |