Aldnoah.Zero 2nd Season Episode 9 Discussion

Darklight0303 said:
It's a fragment of what can be done with a mech. A mech can run a mech can steer. Inaho merely controled the arms and the fingers that pulled the triggers.

swn32 said:
What would they achieve that way? Their goal is conquest. Sitting in one place wont achieve that. They have to kill enemies encroaching their captured territories. Otherwise there is no point to having captured them.

swn32 said:


The difference is terrans respect the martians as a formidable enemy.

Darklight0303 said:


Not really. See the castles landed in highly populated areas for the shock and awe effect. But in terms of actually gaining resources they are in the WORST LOCATION.

ANGRY2011 said:


It's also far and away more than what we've seen anyone else be able to do in the entire series. Has anybody else remotely controlled any mechs? Has anybody else remotely controlled a squad of mechs? Has anybody else calculated moving enemies' positions so precisely that they are able to perfect shot dozens of them?

You can downplay it as much as you want, I can trump it up as much as I want.

ANGRY2011 said:

So I complained that the Vers were too stupid and haughty for me to believe, and in the end, your final argument is that the difference is the Terrans respect their enemy, while the Vers are too stupid and haughty to do so? You don't say?

ANGRY2011 said:


Unless you know the resources around each landing castle landing, your statement is sweeping and unsupported. In addition, your response did nothing to refute my point.

swn32 said:

Each of the martians knights were crushing their enemies with ease in all their past battles. Why would they suddenly start respecting the opposition?

Darklight0303 said:
You realize all those mechs were standing still while that happened right? Aka SITTING ducks if there were any ranged enemies. That's the point I am making. Yes it's impressive but it is something that can only work in SPECIFIC conditions. This power is not absolute. It's not going to singlehandedly turn the tide of the war. It's a desperation move that exerts an immense toll on the user.

Viktor_Otaku said:

I think that started when their members start dying 1 by 1 in combat.

swn32 said:

Each of the martians knights were crushing their enemies with ease in all their past battles. Why would they suddenly start respecting the opposition?

Darklight0303 said:


You realize all those mechs were standing still while that happened right? Aka SITTING ducks if there were any ranged enemies. That's the point I am making. Yes it's impressive but it is something that can only work in SPECIFIC conditions. This power is not absolute. It's not going to singlehandedly turn the tide of the war. It's a desperation move that exerts an immense toll on the user.

deadoptimist said:
Also making one side of the conflict completely brain-dead is an example of bad writing. Especially since they are no a runaway mental patients, but a military leaders, that are established in the fictional universe as fearsome.

They have been fighting for two years, the lost a third of kats, there are dead among the ranks - wouldn't you think your best when you might die?

And hunting =/= acting stupid. Normally "hunter opponents" are fearsome, cause they use traps, ambushes, surrounding, hounds. And they think creatively, cause they see a creature, not a person. I mean there is a trope like that, and it usually is used for a small boss.

Darklight0303 said:
Every castle we've seen other than Sazbaum's was embedded in the middle of a city. This is the facts we have seen thus far and given that Earth has managed to keep some lands including the mineral rich region of Northern europe, it's rather safe to say that containing them to said cities has more or less worked.

Darklight0303 said:
average martian kataphracts are no more sturdier than the terran ones.

ANGRY2011 said:

Maybe because the enemy with the Aldnoah powered ship has been racking up a 100% kill rate against fellow counts? Maybe because despite the fact they are supposedly just slaughtering everyone, they still have yet to win the war after a 19 month timeskip? Maybe because there have been instances in the show where characters have specifically said that "the war is taking a lot longer and the Terran forces are putting up more of a fight" than any of them expected?

Darklight0303 said:


Fox hunting involves riding around on a horse and shooting foxes. There's no traps or ambushes. Honunds they might be but in this case they are the hounds or knights under their rule are but their mechs get wrecked regardless since as we saw in the space battle, average martian kataphracts are no more sturdier than the terran ones.

ANGRY2011 said:


Maybe because the enemy with the Aldnoah powered ship has been racking up a 100% kill rate against fellow counts? Maybe because despite the fact they are supposedly just slaughtering everyone, they still have yet to win the war after a 19 month timeskip? Maybe because there have been instances in the show where characters have specifically said that "the war is taking a lot longer and the Terran forces are putting up more of a fight" than any of them expected?



Yes, they were standing still. Does this automatically make doing something no one else is capable of doing any less impressive? You say it can't turn the tide of the war, but isn't that last battle pretty much a textbook case of turning the tide of the war? The Vers knights were going to work together and make things very difficult, but he beats them, including beating an enemy that no one else can defeat, and now they are taking that momentum and launching an attack in space?

swn32 said:

They had only "heard" about some orange guy. I'm pretty sure they didn't have a clue what they were up against. They had too much confidence in their aldnoah powered robots. After all that shit is OP. Also the war taking longer than expected would only push them to use more aggressive tactics. Not sit back and defend.

Darklight0303 said:
Fox hunting involves riding around on a horse and shooting foxes. There's no traps or ambushes. Honunds they might be but in this case they are the hounds or knights under their rule are but their mechs get wrecked regardless since as we saw in the space battle, average martian kataphracts are no more sturdier than the terran ones.

ANGRY2011 said:

So, once again, your argument is that they are too haughty and stupid?

ANGRY2011 said:


So, once again, your argument is that they are too haughty and stupid?

Darklight0303 said:


Actually only one mech was making things dificult. The other two were taken out by normal team work. The replicating mech pushed Inaho to use this feat. So no it was not teamwork that forced Inaho's hand. it was the unique nature of ONE kataphract

Darklight0303 said:
Actually only one mech was making things dificult. The other two were taken out by normal team work. The replicating mech pushed Inaho to use this feat. So no it was not teamwork that forced Inaho's hand. it was the unique nature of ONE kataphract

Darklight0303 said:


That is what the series painted them out to be from the start. We never denied that.

ANGRY2011 said:
So, once again, your argument is that they are too haughty and stupid?

Viktor_Otaku said:

Inaho used his eye to calculate the location of the invisible mech more faster and with much more accuracy. And then he relayed it to his friends, his hand was forced with the combination.

swn32 said:

That's already established. I'm reasoning why it is justified.

ANGRY2011 said:


This doesn't address my point, you've refuted nothing. The battle is a textbook example of turning the tides in the war, and it was only possible thanks to Inaho's eye. It doesn't matter if the power didn't win the whole battle, the point is WITHOUT the power they lose.

Darklight0303 said:


No that was was subconscious bias gathered from Data in the past battles and the first exchange. Also Smoke rounds give away the invisible one as we saw in hte first battle.

ANGRY2011 said:


This doesn't address my point, you've refuted nothing. The battle is a textbook example of turning the tides in the war, and it was only possible thanks to Inaho's eye. It doesn't matter if the power didn't win the whole battle, the point is WITHOUT the power they lose.

Darklight0303 said:


No that was was subconscious bias gathered from Data in the past battles and the first exchange. Also Smoke rounds give away the invisible one as we saw in hte first battle.

Darklight0303 said:


One battle doesn't win a whole war.

Well then I can say the same for Vers. Without Aldnoah they also lose. But unlike Aldnoah, Inaho's eye is likely going to leave him with permanent damage.

Viktor_Otaku said:


The smoke was easily nullified by the electric ions. And Inaho himself admitted that this combination was unexpected, your argument falls flat here.

ANGRY2011 said:

I disagree with your point. Even the most basic of fighting forces should take note of their losses and gauge the strength of an enemy. The lack of ability to do so is unjustifiable with any people who are able to think.

Darklight0303 said:


And then they separated the two using the Subconscious bias of their behavioral pattern. Once they were separated they were decimated. YOu see the point here? No of course you don't.

Darklight0303 said:
One battle doesn't win a whole war.

Well then I can say the same for Vers. Without Aldnoah they also lose. But unlike Aldnoah, Inaho's eye is likely going to leave him with permanent damage.

Viktor_Otaku said:


You forget the point where one of the mech got damaged by a lucky shot and was forced to abandone the cover screen. And that shot was guided by Inaho;s eye for you info.

Viktor_Otaku said:


You forget the point where one of the mech got damaged by a lucky shot and was forced to abandone the cover screen. And that shot was guided by Inaho;s eye for you info.

swn32 said:
Again, the 3 counts gauged the enemy based on their experience. They really had no good intel on the enemy. To them it just appeared as a bunch of terran kataphrakts that they have been decimating all this while. They only thing they didn't know was Inaho was one of them.

Another thing is, the landing castles aren't impenetrable. So being too defensive would only accumulate damage. While playing an RTS game, do you just create a fortress and sit there? No, you create an army as well and attack.

swn32 said:
Again, the 3 counts gauged the enemy based on their experience. They really had no good intel on the enemy. To them it just appeared as a bunch of terran kataphrakts that they have been decimating all this while. They only thing they didn't know was Inaho was one of them.

ANGRY2011 said:

Inaho still turned the tide of the war with his increasingly strong eye.

Darklight0303 said:
And then they separated the two using the Subconscious bias of their behavioral pattern. Once they were separated they were decimated. YOu see the point here? No of course you don't.

ANGRY2011 said:


Yes, Aldnoah is a strong power. Inaho continually overcomes it. One battle doesn't win the whole war, but Inaho has used his eye's powers to an increasing extent to win several battles, which is turning the tide.

The damage to Inaho is irrelevant to the point I was making. Inaho still turned the tide of the war with his increasingly strong eye.

Darklight0303 said:


Guided? He calculated where they woudl be moving basied on the behavioral patterns of the two mechs. Behavioral pattern analysis IS a thing. The eye merely allows him to process it faster. This isn't magic. It's simple observation and calculation based on previously gathered Data.

swn32 said:

And that's a bad thing because? The hero always has something that differentiates him from everyone else. That's how mecha anime have always been.

Darklight0303 said:
Several battles and yet there's still plenty of Earth under Vers Rule. As we saw in the first round with the comined effort, his eye does not guarantee victory. IF you want to defeat Inaho you simply need to kill him before he can get enough Data on you. It's as simple as that.

Feats that are heavily reliant on circumstances aren't really all that useful in gauging a character's power.

swn32 said:
Again, the 3 counts gauged the enemy based on their experience. They really had no good intel on the enemy. To them it just appeared as a bunch of terran kataphrakts that they have been decimating all this while. They only thing they didn't know was Inaho was one of them.

Another thing is, the landing castles aren't impenetrable. So being too defensive would only accumulate damage. While playing an RTS game, do you just create a fortress and sit there? No, you create an army as well and attack.

ANGRY2011 said:


The counts should have plenty of intel on a range of Terran forces given the length of the conflict. The very fact that they were not able to eliminate the forces from last episode should also make them cautious. If they are so superior, why were they not able to destroy the enemy?

I still do not agree with you. The counts put almost no thought into anything they do, and they do not approach the battle with the seriousness that the circumstances of the war at hand should dictate.

Even on a fundamental level, no serious military officer or unit after being bogged down in a war for far longer than they anticipated should believe themselves to be beyond getting killed. The cavalier stupidity of the counts is not justified.

Viktor_Otaku said:
I would expect the Knights to move the castle and create similiar kind of outpost to cover the grounds. Then create a mobile force capable of covering such grounds in a short time to reinforce the outpost as need to be.

swn32 said:

And that's a bad thing because? The hero always has something that differentiates him from everyone else. That's how mecha anime have always been.

deadoptimist said:

If they now work together they can have a ton of intel on Inaho. And they actually recognise the orange kat anyway.

If the castle can shoot an enemy, why not let him and not waste units? It's like a turret too, if we talk about games.

swn32 said:
Then again you are assuming that Inaho is a high priority target. He isn't that famous. Martians of only heard of a orange kataphrakt.

Viktor_Otaku said:

The problem here is that the MC is constantly abusing this ability and the enemy does not have yet figure out a mean to combat it. And this ability is usually not the silver bullet to every single combat, in Gundam, the MC always fire his BFG and takes out multiple enemies, yet when he faces an enemy ace it always get dodged or deflected.
In Inaho's case his eye and brain power works every single time. Inaho never had to rely on anything more, he need not rely on on the stop spontaneous actions or reflexes.

ANGRY2011 said:


If you notice, I never said it was bad. I suggest if you want to jump in on this argument you actually read the train of it.



And yet they are launching an attack on space, the "enemy territory" if you will. Clearly, they've had enough success on the ground to be able to strike at the enemy instead of simply retake their own land or defend themselves. Hence, turning the tide of the war.

Once again, the thing that matters is not that the eye does it ALONE, it is that WITHOUT the eye they would lose.

Please keep track of what we are talking about.