LordLagann said: Old news. The industry has been taking the easy outs for years now. All you have to do is pump a series full of moe and it'll sell by default. Just as long you keep the show right in that strike zone and don't do anything adventurous like tell a story or develop characters. Anything too ambitious and the people found at other end of the spectrum, overly analytical asshats, will find whatever niche excuse to blow it out of the water. What a load of BS. Moe, lolis, harems, ecchi, and whatever else people complain about their abundance, don't guarantee the sales at all. And often than not, the best sellers, don't have those in them, at least not as a main appeal or a genre. |
 |
tsudecimo said: Moe, lolis, harems, ecchi, and whatever else people complain about their abundance, don't guarantee the sales at all. And often than not, the best sellers, don't have those in them, at least not as a main appeal or a genre. Go back each season and pick the most popular show vs the season's actual best show. Now take both and subtract moe. Which do you think will lessen as a whole because the entire show based itself off of one niche selling point. Hell you could take every show of each season, take away moe, and see which ones baffle you as why those shows even make it to production. I'll tell you why, because that shit sells like hotcakes and people are pig faced junk munchers. Just take a look at the releases from early 2000's and follow it to now. What used to be something that took a bit of effort and writing to achieve now is being sold by the bucket loads because people rather just have moe crammed down their throats then to have it naturally occur. It's been broken down, formulated, mass produced, and fetishized. It's also currently the industry's biggest drug. |
LordLagann said: tsudecimo said: Moe, lolis, harems, ecchi, and whatever else people complain about their abundance, don't guarantee the sales at all. And often than not, the best sellers, don't have those in them, at least not as a main appeal or a genre. Go back each season and pick the most popular show vs the season's actual best show. Now take both and subtract moe. Which do you think will lessen as a whole because the entire show based itself off of one niche selling point. Hell you could take every show of each season, take away moe, and see which ones baffle you as why those shows even make it to production. I'll tell you why, because that shit sells like hotcakes and people are pig faced junk munchers. Just take a look at the releases from early 2000's and follow it to now. What used to be something that took a bit of effort and writing to achieve now is being sold by the bucket loads because people rather just have moe crammed down their throats then to have it naturally occur. It's been broken down, formulated, mass produced, and fetishized. It's also currently the industry's biggest drug. There is no way to determine ''actual best show of the season'' unless you are referring to the MAL ranking in which case; lol. Baseless claims after baseless claims. Let's go by the actual sales of top sellers not just your pointless assertions. 2014 average sales: 60,887 Love Live! 2nd Season 24,893 Haikyuu!! 22,552 Free! -Eternal Summer- 20,214 Sword Art Online II 14,652 Hoozuki no Reitetsu 11,875 Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei 11,163 Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu ka? 11,017 Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun 10,529 Persona 4 The Golden 8,655 No Game No Life 8,309 Aldnoah Zero 8,275 Psycho-Pass 2 Lets see, hmm. I can count 2 or 3 series that has moe in them (Love live, Usagi desu ka, No game No life). The rest of the top sellers doesn't have what you are complaining about. But then again if we go by Moe = Cute girls doing cute things like K-On, then there is only one (Usagi Desuk ka!) |
|
Ratohnhaketon said: People only see what they want to see. K-On is one of the forerunners of dealing with the theme of just having fun and enjoying life, the cutesy style just helps reinforce that feel good, drama free sensation. I have not seen many shows that are able to incorporate moe with substance as well as K-On and, to an extent, Aria have. Sheesh, it's like you either need a ton of violence or completely realistic characters to make claims on quality storytelling these days. True.. K-on made a very typical idea very good.. However, a lot of moe anime are good for encorporating other elements besides mindless cuteness... girls und panzer encorporates action... Nichijou encorporates surreal comedy Okashi_sama said: silversongwriter said: Really? That's the example you use? Don't get me wrong, it's alright... I like the MC, but one of the best anime heroines? I think that's a bit of an overstatement If anything, it's an understatement. she just be called the best fictional character ever. Really? I mean... I'm curious. I like her... don't get me wrong. I felt she really lacked a lot of personality in the beginning, while towards the end, she gets some really great character development as we go into her back story. But I think she's more interesting than charismatic. I guess her back story is just more interesting to me than her over-all personality. Then again... my favorite anime girl is Haruhi Suzumiya... so I guess I tend to go for more energetic girls |
silversongwriterJan 31, 2015 1:32 PM
 |
| Get y'all minds out of the gutter. |
 |
tsudecimo said: LordLagann said: Go back each season and pick the most popular show vs the season's actual best show. Now take both and subtract moe. Which do you think will lessen as a whole because the entire show based itself off of one niche selling point. Hell you could take every show of each season, take away moe, and see which ones baffle you as why those shows even make it to production. I'll tell you why, because that shit sells like hotcakes and people are pig faced junk munchers. Just take a look at the releases from early 2000's and follow it to now. What used to be something that took a bit of effort and writing to achieve now is being sold by the bucket loads because people rather just have moe crammed down their throats then to have it naturally occur. It's been broken down, formulated, mass produced, and fetishized. It's also currently the industry's biggest drug. There is no way to determine ''actual best show of the season'' unless you are referring to the MAL ranking in which case; lol. Baseless claims after baseless claims. Let's go by the actual sales of top sellers not just your pointless assertions. 2014 average sales: 60,887 Love Live! 2nd Season 24,893 Haikyuu!! 22,552 Free! -Eternal Summer- 20,214 Sword Art Online II 14,652 Hoozuki no Reitetsu 11,875 Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei 11,163 Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu ka? 11,017 Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun 10,529 Persona 4 The Golden 8,655 No Game No Life 8,309 Aldnoah Zero 8,275 Psycho-Pass 2 Lets see, hmm. I can count 2 or 3 series that has moe in them (Love live, Usagi desu ka, No game No life). The rest of the top sellers doesn't have what you are complaining about. But then again if we go by Moe = Cute girls doing cute things like K-On, then there is only one (Usagi Desuk ka!) Well, I'd say most of these shows have moe (since it's not just cute girls doing cute things. Free! is hella moe at times) and it doesn't really impact the storytelling that the creators want to do. Then again that Lagan dude is most likely using the common 'I don't like it = moe and if I like it it can't be moe' definition and it's hard to argue with that. Let's just show him all the shows with tons of cute girls shows last season and how awesomely they are selling: 25. **,419 Ushinawareta Mirai wo Motomete [BD] (2014/12/24) 23. **,622 Denki-gai no Honya-san [BD] (2014/12/24) 20. *1,107 Ai Tenchi Muyou! [BD] (2015/01/21) 15. *1,919 Inou-Battle wa Nichijou-kei no Naka de [BD] (2014/12/26) 14. *2,609 Girlfriend (Kari) (2015/01/21) Then there are a few who sold decently but far from being super successful (and they all look more ecchi than moe to me): *9. *4,574 Grisaia no Kajitsu (2014/12/25) 10. *4,165 Trinity Seven (2014/12/19) 12. *3,184 Ore, Twintails ni Narimasu. (2014/12/26) Now if we look at the top 8: *1. 11,098 Yowamushi Pedal: Grande Road (2015/01/21) - SPORTS *2. 10,912 Yuuki Yuuna wa Yuusha de Aru (2014/12/17) - ONLY CUTE GIRL SHOW *3. *9,003 Psycho-Pass 2 (2014/12/17) - SCI-FI DYSTOPIA *4. *8,855 Cross Ange: Tenshi to Ryuu no Rondo (2014/12/24) - MECHA *5. *8,194 Amagi Brilliant Park (2014/12/26) - ENSEMBLE CAST COMEDY *6. *7,923 Shirobako [BD] (2014/12/24) - ENSEMBLE CAST SLICE OF LIFE *7. *5,694 Gundam: G no Reconguista (2014/12/25) - MECHA *8. *5,360 Gugure! Kokkuri-san (2014/12/24) - PURE COMEDY Not like I think something puny like facts will actually convince him, but it doesn't really get much more obvious how wrong he is. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Higashi_no_Kaze said: Well, I'd say most of these shows have moe (since it's not just cute girls doing cute things. Free! is hella moe at times) and it doesn't really impact the storytelling that the creators want to do. Then again that Lagan dude is most likely using the common 'I don't like it = moe and if I like it it can't be moe' definition and it's hard to argue with that. I doubt he would consider Free, moe, due to the gender. But yeah that the problem with the ''moe is killing the industry'' baseless assertion and claims, the term is broad, so you can't pinpoint how much of it is there, and how successful, unless you go by cute girls doing cute things, as the main selling point of an anime. The same goes for ecchi really, many ecchi and harem series sell pretty terribly, people don't realize that DxD, infinite Stratos are not the norm. |
|
| That's not at all my point there, Date. I didn't say Love Live made more money than Gundam or precure. Actually you are helping my point, since the majority of the industry's money doesn't come from the ''moe'' shows released every season. |
|
tsudecimo said: Higashi_no_Kaze said: Well, I'd say most of these shows have moe (since it's not just cute girls doing cute things. Free! is hella moe at times) and it doesn't really impact the storytelling that the creators want to do. Then again that Lagan dude is most likely using the common 'I don't like it = moe and if I like it it can't be moe' definition and it's hard to argue with that. I doubt he would consider Free, moe, due to the gender. But yeah that the problem with the ''moe is killing the industry'' baseless assertion and claims, the term is broad, so you can't pinpoint how much of it is there, and how successful, unless you go by cute girls doing cute things, as the main selling point of an anime. The same goes for ecchi really, many ecchi and harem series sell pretty terribly, people don't realize that DxD, infinite Stratos are not the norm. Moe is not killing the anime industry... However, lack of creativity is killing moe |
|
silversongwriter said: Moe is not killing the anime industry... However, lack of creativity is killing moe Hey OP! Since you were kind enough to return to your shitty thread that already snowballed into a massive rolling crap, would you be a sweet little boy and read my post here: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1349114&show=60#msg37881430 Then fix your original post to avoid more random lurkers getting the wrong idea about a person who never said such things? Thank you, sweetie. |
| #your hate on moe fuels my fanboyism |
 |
| If it exists, someone will make porn out of it. That's how the world works, if anime wasn't around we would probably just sexualize something else |
| Signature removed. Bro, can you please follow the signature rules? How many times do I have to tell you, 300kb MAX. You know we don't have the server space for your giant ass gifs. Site & Forum Guidelines (read them dumbass). |
xbobx said: The importance of source: A study. Dear OP, after reading some of your comments and threads, I thought you were a nice, capable and intelligent guy. Don't make me regret that thought now... Do you have the sauce on that quote? Seems not. So, I'm forced to ask: Did you just assume Miyazaki was talking about "moe" by mistake or you used his misplaced quote to start the discussion you wanted about "moe"? Well, the fact is, Miyazaki wasn't addressing moe in that comment. It is an excerpt from an interview he gave about Nausicaa to a Japanese reporter back in 1996 and they're talking about the role a male/female protagonist plays in a story, their personality differences and character design. Ironically, "moe" as an industry trend didn't even exist back then. http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/interviews/heroines.html The quote on Wikipedia is a poorly-placed one. And we've already tried a dozen times to remove it, but somehow, some faggot keeps adding it again. It's also sad to see so many replies to this thread badmouthing Miyazaki. You may not like him -personally, I hate a fair amount of his works- but one must respect and recognize his importance to the establishment of this medium. Miyazaki have indeed shown in public his displeasure with the current animu industry a couple of times already. However, just like Anno -who despises the status of his fanbase- they both know this medium is changing and that this fandom is inevitable and it's just futile to fight against it. Tastes changes, the target audience changes, times change. Pampering is a cancer killing the industry? I know it not. -poi. I admit my interpretation was taken slightly out of context. I know that's not exactly what he meant.. but I think it's relevant today however. He's talking about people sexualizing his characters... now I did make a mistake when originally posting this thread. I will however say that what he said was not only right, but it's probably one of the reasons why moe anime is where it is today... People complain about sexualization of little girls in anime... but why is it there in the first place? because of demand. People want the sort of thing Miyazaki was talking badly about. And because anime fans want it... they get it. That's why the industry has become so perverted. And with that demand comes lack of creativity. Taking a female character, making her a loli/moe play toy... is easy. That's why so many characters are so bland. Because animators focus more on making them easy to sexualize than giving them proper character. And that's why, even though I was wrong at first. I still feel that what he said is relevant to anime in this day and age |
|
-Axcel- said: If it exists, someone will make porn out of it. That's how the world works, if anime wasn't around we would probably just sexualize something else moe is not ecchi my dear ignorant friend. It has little to do with sexualization and even less with porn. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
tsudecimo said: There is no way to determine ''actual best show of the season'' unless you are referring to the MAL ranking in which case; lol. Baseless claims after baseless claims. Let's go by the actual sales of top sellers not just your pointless assertions. 2014 average sales: Lets see, hmm. I can count 2 or 3 series that has moe in them (Love live, Usagi desu ka, No game No life). The rest of the top sellers doesn't have what you are complaining about. But then again if we go by Moe = Cute girls doing cute things like K-On, then there is only one (Usagi Desuk ka!) I don't know why you insist on arguing when the more evidence that gets piled on the more foolish you end up looking. You say my assertions are baseless but conveniently ignore that the higher up we go on sales it's clear the series with more moe do much better then the ones who forgo it. What, you gonna sit here and tell me Love Live is much more intriguing then Psycho Pass? Sure, if vanilla fan service and moe girls are your thing. Both series are at the ends of the spectrum yet Love Live topples second place with almost a 40k difference. The power of moe and the moe goers. I doubt it'll get the same amount of coverage otherwise. If you don't think moe, or any other form of cute service, is the current dominating factor in Anime then you're touched in the head. FYI - These things need to be looked at from an observers point of view. Assuming all moe is aimed at men and consist of women/girls infers that only men watch/create/buy Anime, which is obviously not the case. I consider Free, and shows of the sort, the female equivalent of our cutsy wutsy shit. Of course I'm not a girl so this is completely just me throwing out opinions. |
LordLagannJan 31, 2015 5:33 PM
LordLagann said: tsudecimo said: There is no way to determine ''actual best show of the season'' unless you are referring to the MAL ranking in which case; lol. Baseless claims after baseless claims. Let's go by the actual sales of top sellers not just your pointless assertions. 2014 average sales: Lets see, hmm. I can count 2 or 3 series that has moe in them (Love live, Usagi desu ka, No game No life). The rest of the top sellers doesn't have what you are complaining about. But then again if we go by Moe = Cute girls doing cute things like K-On, then there is only one (Usagi Desuk ka!) I don't know why you insist on arguing when the more evidence that gets piled on the more foolish you end up looking. You say my assertions are baseless but conveniently ignore that the higher up we go on sales it's clear the series with more moe do much better then the ones who forgo it. What, you gonna sit here and tell me Love Live is much more intriguing then Psycho Pass? Sure, if vanilla fan service and moe girls are your thing. Both series are at the ends of the spectrum yet Love Live topples second place with almost a 40k difference. The power of moe and the moe goers. I doubt it'll get the same amount of coverage otherwise. If you don't think moe, or any other form of cute service, is the current dominating factor in Anime then you're touched in the head. FYI - These things need to be looked at from an observers point of view. Assuming all moe is aimed at men and consist of women/girls infers that only men watch/create/buy Anime, which is obviously not the case. I consider Free, and shows of the sort, the female equivalent of our cutsy wutsy shit. Of course I'm not a girl so this is completely just me throwing out opinions. Trust me, the only one looking foolish here is you with how you ignore most of the data and twist the rest to fit your agenda. Your whole argument is not an argument, because saying PP is more intriguing than Love Live is just an opinion, unlike the facts we provided that prove that a lot of moe stuff fails in sales and there are enough other shows that still manage to be successful. Just because the topseller happens to be Love Live doesn't mean anything. There are hundreds of anime aired each year, if you want to prove that moe ruins the industry then show how many of these were moe series and how big of a % of those sold at least 3-4k. Just jumping to conclusions based on one show is some of the stupidest arguing I've ever seen on MAL especially since it's a show that taps into much larger existing fandoms than just the anime fans. Fuck the fact that PP sold more than 95% of the anime this year, which would include about 200 moe series if we trust your assessment that 'moe is the dominating factor' at the moment. Obviously the industry and fans only cares about moe and nothing else sells and moe never doesn't sell. BECAUSE LOVE LIVE SOLD EVEN MORE THAN PSYCHO-PASS!!! Do you even realize how pitiful your line of arguing is? You talk about the industry as if you had a clue but then always focus your argument on individual examples while neglecting the statistical data we provided. Your selective argumentation is too transparent so it makes your credibility when you talk about 'things need to be looked at from an observors point of view' nonexistent. You don't observe, you first form your opinion, then judge, then look at the data trying to cherrypick information that supports your view. Neglecting individual circumstances (like the multi-media appeal of Love Live and the giant existing idol fandom in Japan that is only vaguely related to anime fandom) and just twisting every little bit of seemingly supportive information in your favor just shows me that your goal is not to adequately discuss the subject, but do everything in your power to come to a pre-determined conclusion. You can do that on your own, it's just rude to pretend you're discussing something when you don't intend to actually do that and just call people who aren't as ignorant and biased as you 'touched in the head' when they provide you with facts and arguments. And some addendum about your precious Psycho-Pass. If thats how 'mature' shows should look like I'd rather have shows all about cute girls. Stuff like PP being seen as deep, substantial and well-written is more dangerous to the future quality of mature anime than moe, that's for sure. [spoiler] It's a disgrace that PP sold that much already so I find it fairly hilarious that that's the base of your argument. It just shows that cheaply appealing to the 'sophisticated' anti moe crowd is often the most successful when it's cheap and lazy without much interesting substance. Just make everything in a dark color palette, gives us guns that make people explosive and quote some stuff without context and anyone will feel good about preferring it over a cute girl show despite being written like shit. You are not less superficial than any moe fan if you think Psycho-Pass is an anime with substance and good writing. You just react to other visual cues like dark colors and explosion guns, not cute girls and moe. But there's no substantial difference between you and someone that enjoys K-On. In fact I'd say K-On is less pretentious and enjoying K-On is less pretentious than praising PP for it's writing and substance. Both series do a lot to appeal to their target audience when it comes to how the visually present their content, the target audience is just different so the methods of appealing are different. Unless you have some stupid and wrong opinion like dark = always more mature and interesting and deep, there's no argument to be made here without discussion each series in depth individually. But I guess generalized judgments based on superficial impressions are the privilege of the ignorant, so you just stick to what works for you... |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Personally... these anti-moe people perplex me... How can one be anti-cuteness. When you get down to it. Moe is NOT a genre... I REPEAT!!! MOE IS NOT REALLY A GENRE!!!! Moe is an element. Girls Und Panzer is a moe action series. An action that deals in heavy amounts of cuteness. Nichijou is a surreal comedy with moe K-on is a slice of life anime with moe Yes, there is a problem with a lot of anime that use the moe art style and slice of life format. There are countless copycats of anime such as K-on or Azumanga Diaoh... However, that's because hack anime ride on the coattails of those anime which really are great. K-on is a slice of life... it has moe in it. Take the moe out, and you'd just have a slice of life that's not as cute to look at. TL;DR There's nothing wrong with moe. All anime could benefit from. It's just a style that emphasizes heavy amounts of cuteness and does not ruin nor destroy a show because it's there. If a moe anime sucks, it's usually because they recycle clichés from other anime with moe, and you get a carbon copy... but not because moe is any form of problem. |
|
Zergneedsfood said: tsudecimo said: I've posted this before, but a common thing that people don't realize is that sex sells far less than what people expect. Sex sells is a "thing" because it sounds good and it has alliteration on top of being a rather logical statement based on what we know of human nature, but one thing you actually learn when you do some preliminary academic studies in marketing is that empirically....the idea that "sex sells" is very dependent on precisely what product you are selling and how you do it. Sex appeal is incredibly hit or miss, so there's a lot of possibility for something with sex to not sell at all.The same goes for ecchi really, many ecchi and harem series sell pretty terribly, people don't realize that DxD, infinite Stratos are not the norm. Which, I think, is testament to why ecchi doesn't sell nearly as well as people think it does. The statistics dictate otherwise, unfortunately. Shitty ecchi shows gets more views on the air and sells more on average than other anime. Fanservice, regardless if you want to admit it; sells. Kuroko's Basketball is a good example. It's a meh show but fujoshi hyped the shit out of it, drew a trillion doujinshi and it's selling well. Compare it to something like Terror in Tokyo... and well you start to see a pattern. |
Zergneedsfood said: tsudecimo said: I've posted this before, but a common thing that people don't realize is that sex sells far less than what people expect. Sex sells is a "thing" because it sounds good and it has alliteration on top of being a rather logical statement based on what we know of human nature, but one thing you actually learn when you do some preliminary academic studies in marketing is that empirically....the idea that "sex sells" is very dependent on precisely what product you are selling and how you do it. Sex appeal is incredibly hit or miss, so there's a lot of possibility for something with sex to not sell at all.The same goes for ecchi really, many ecchi and harem series sell pretty terribly, people don't realize that DxD, infinite Stratos are not the norm. Which, I think, is testament to why ecchi doesn't sell nearly as well as people think it does. ...in the anime industry. The phrase 'Sex Sells' comes from American Television and Movies--and with books like "Fifty Shades of Shit" selling out, it could stretch into American Literature. |
YaN333Jan 31, 2015 6:58 PM
| It's natural for a person to deny he's a failure as a human being. That's why he searches for somebody who is more miserable than himself. That's why so much animosity exists on the internet. Those who aren't able to find a more miserable person, turn to the internet and call other people losers, even though they've never met. Just to make themselves feel superior. isn't that pathetic? There's a sense of security that comes from speaking badly of someone else. But that isn't true salvation. — Tatsuhiro Satou YandereTheEmo said: The only thing more pathetic than quoting someone you know nothing about, is quoting yourself. |
| Immanoob would love this shit... |
FragOutFire said: Why am I a Berserk fan? All I ever experience is pain. We are in the eclipse and Miura has sacrificed us |
PriestSlayer said: Immanoob would love this shit... Where is he when we need him? |
|
Consequent said: Probably fighting ignorance somewhere else. I've heard 4chan is great this time of the year.PriestSlayer said: Immanoob would love this shit... Where is he when we need him? |
FragOutFire said: Why am I a Berserk fan? All I ever experience is pain. We are in the eclipse and Miura has sacrificed us |
Zergneedsfood said: Rance-sama said: The stats on the previous page would really beg to differ.The statistics dictate otherwise, unfortunately. Shitty ecchi shows gets more views on the air and sells more on average than other anime. Fanservice, regardless if you want to admit it; sells. Kuroko's Basketball is a good example. It's a meh show but fujoshi hyped the shit out of it, drew a trillion doujinshi and it's selling well. Compare it to something like Terror in Tokyo... and well you start to see a pattern. 60,887 Love Live! 2nd Season 24,893 Haikyuu!! 22,552 Free! -Eternal Summer- 20,214 Sword Art Online II 14,652 Hoozuki no Reitetsu 11,875 Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei 11,163 Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu ka? 11,017 Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun 10,529 Persona 4 The Golden 8,655 No Game No Life 8,309 Aldnoah Zero 8,275 Psycho-Pass 2 *1. 11,098 Yowamushi Pedal: Grande Road (2015/01/21) - SPORTS *2. 10,912 Yuuki Yuuna wa Yuusha de Aru (2014/12/17) - ONLY CUTE GIRL SHOW *3. *9,003 Psycho-Pass 2 (2014/12/17) - SCI-FI DYSTOPIA *4. *8,855 Cross Ange: Tenshi to Ryuu no Rondo (2014/12/24) - MECHA *5. *8,194 Amagi Brilliant Park (2014/12/26) - ENSEMBLE CAST COMEDY *6. *7,923 Shirobako [BD] (2014/12/24) - ENSEMBLE CAST SLICE OF LIFE *7. *5,694 Gundam: G no Reconguista (2014/12/25) - MECHA *8. *5,360 Gugure! Kokkuri-san (2014/12/24) - PURE COMEDY And while I think it's fair to say that yaoi doujinshi boosted Kuroko Basket is kind of disheartening because it means people are buying it as a product of some other source and not because of the work's merits itself, I still don't see that as a particular reason to say that ecchi is naturally selling more than all other types. Never seen this "love live"... I guess I got to.. if it's that fucking good it sold that much. I'm glad Cross Ange is selling a lot. I've never seen it, but it looks like the greatest yuri ever made. It's got the potential to be |
|
| From the OP: silversongwriter said: ShadowRanger88 said: Shinsekai Yori. It's pretty obscure but after the first few episodes when you start to understand the setting, it just gets full on and awesome That anime has gay shit in it, so I won't watch it http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1338767&show=0#msg37361779 |
SightScreen said: From the OP: silversongwriter said: That anime has gay shit in it, so I won't watch it http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1338767&show=0#msg37361779 well yea.. I don't watch anime with gay stuff... If the main protagonist is a male homosexual, I won't watch it... but I like it if it's two chicks... Now please explain what that has to do with anything whatsoever? How is that relevant to the topic or literally anything else for that matter? |
|
LucasRTS said: orario said: Moe is okay in a moderate amount, but when it's basically thrown in your face every minute (K-On), it's not.So what's the point of this thread? It's not like posting this will make at least one guy to not like moe anymore. After all..what's so bad about moe? Wut. K-On is the pinnacle of moe. |
| |
Journey_95 said: LOL I was disappointed with Shinsekai Yori but not because it had yaoi/yuri scenes thats just childish behavior especially since it was only one freaking episode If the characters who did it died quickly like in Akume ga Kill, then I'd do it. The problem with me is that their sexuality taints my image of them so I can no longer care about them. I watched Gurren Lagann because the gay guy was a side character. I liked Doki Doki School Hours because he was a joke and was just there to be made fun of. I've actually seen anime with more gay content than Shinseki Yori... but in those anime they were the side characters, and not main protagonists. I'm sorry, I just can't like a fictional character if they're gay, and if I can't like them, how can I enjoy the story? How can I get invested if I don't even root for the protagonists? And more importantly... WHO THE FUCK CARES?!!! Silversongwriter has a homophobic view of anime... EVERYONE HERE KNOWS THIS!!!! And what people should know... but fail to get across.. is that I... don't... care... |
|
Journey_95 said: silversongwriter said: If the characters who did it died quickly like in Akume ga Kill, then I'd do it. The problem with me is that their sexuality taints my image of them so I can no longer care about them. I watched Gurren Lagann because the gay guy was a side character. I liked Doki Doki School Hours because he was a joke and was just there to be made fun of. I've actually seen anime with more gay content than Shinseki Yori... but in those anime they were the side characters, and not main protagonists. I'm sorry, I just can't like a fictional character if they're gay, and if I can't like them, how can I enjoy the story? How can I get invested if I don't even root for the protagonists? And more importantly... WHO THE FUCK CARES?!!! Silversongwriter has a homophobic view of anime... EVERYONE HERE KNOWS THIS!!!! And what people should know... but fail to get across.. is that I... don't... care... I didn't know you had a homophobic view of anime (or in general) And "tainted" is a bit harsh man there are probably some gay people on myanimelist right now Don't humor him. |
| It's natural for a person to deny he's a failure as a human being. That's why he searches for somebody who is more miserable than himself. That's why so much animosity exists on the internet. Those who aren't able to find a more miserable person, turn to the internet and call other people losers, even though they've never met. Just to make themselves feel superior. isn't that pathetic? There's a sense of security that comes from speaking badly of someone else. But that isn't true salvation. — Tatsuhiro Satou YandereTheEmo said: The only thing more pathetic than quoting someone you know nothing about, is quoting yourself. |
Journey_95 said: silversongwriter said: If the characters who did it died quickly like in Akume ga Kill, then I'd do it. The problem with me is that their sexuality taints my image of them so I can no longer care about them. I watched Gurren Lagann because the gay guy was a side character. I liked Doki Doki School Hours because he was a joke and was just there to be made fun of. I've actually seen anime with more gay content than Shinseki Yori... but in those anime they were the side characters, and not main protagonists. I'm sorry, I just can't like a fictional character if they're gay, and if I can't like them, how can I enjoy the story? How can I get invested if I don't even root for the protagonists? And more importantly... WHO THE FUCK CARES?!!! Silversongwriter has a homophobic view of anime... EVERYONE HERE KNOWS THIS!!!! And what people should know... but fail to get across.. is that I... don't... care... I didn't know you had a homophobic view of anime (or in general) And "tainted" is a bit harsh man there are probably some gay people on myanimelist right now well I'm just a homophobe in anime... I do not hate anyone in reality. And more importantly, who cares what I watch. I can avoid gays, and jack off to yuri if I feel like it. It doesn't reflect my view of gays as human beings, and my anime preferences don't mean anything. |
|
Journey_95 said: lol what? of course they do you think characters are "tainted" just because they are gay and you can't root for them pretty sure it reflects your view of gays in real life Whatever... even if I do have something subconsciously telling me "gays are inferior" then I still wouldn't actively do something bad to someone for their sexuality. So whether or not I'm a homophobe shouldn't be anything that anyone cares about. Because in no way, shape, or form does it matter. Am I? I don't know... I don't care... |
|
silversongwriter said: Journey_95 said: lol what? of course they do you think characters are "tainted" just because they are gay and you can't root for them pretty sure it reflects your view of gays in real life Whatever... even if I do have something subconsciously telling me "gays are inferior" then I still wouldn't actively do something bad to someone for their sexuality. So whether or not I'm a homophobe shouldn't be anything that anyone cares about. Because in no way, shape, or form does it matter. Am I? I don't know... I don't care... The biggest hint to realize you're a homophobe/bigot in general is your black and white view of sexuality as w a whole. The character in SSY are not gay, that is a fact. But in your world they are forever branded as 'gay' based on one 5 second scene that has totally different reasons that are even explained in the anime episodes before it ever happens. When you can only see people as heterosexual or gay without any room for nuance, you either have no clue about sexuality or are so appalled by the thought that anything that even remotely reminds you of it must immediately be thrown out and buried. Probably both. And you can think what you want, but the moment you open your mouth or write a post about it you're spreading your poisonous homophobia to the world and it's just fair that people who care about tolerance and open-mindedness would try to counter that mindset. It's to prevent people from thinking noone cares just because homophobes don't care. We do care, even heterosexual people like me (gasp!). I'd like to think we don't live in times where homophobia was socially accepted or even supported anymore, so I (and others) try to create an atmosphere that reflects that. When people get called out on being homophobic everytime they are it slowly changes the collective mindset of society towards the matter (at least that's the hope). It doesn't have to do with you actually physically hurting gay people (at that point you're a criminal and need to be in prison and probably therapy), but with the mindset itself being outdated, unreasonable, hurtful and hostile, even if you are 'so tolerant as to not bash their heads in when you see them on the street' (which seems to be what a lot of homophobes think is tolerance). It's not like racism is only when people get physically hurt either, there are a lot of other ways to hurt people or to discriminate against them. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Higashi_no_Kaze said: silversongwriter said: Whatever... even if I do have something subconsciously telling me "gays are inferior" then I still wouldn't actively do something bad to someone for their sexuality. So whether or not I'm a homophobe shouldn't be anything that anyone cares about. Because in no way, shape, or form does it matter. Am I? I don't know... I don't care... The biggest hint to realize you're a homophobe/bigot in general is your black and white view of sexuality as w a whole. The character in SSY are not gay, that is a fact. But in your world they are forever branded as 'gay' based on one 5 second scene that has totally different reasons that are even explained in the anime episodes before it ever happens. When you can only see people as heterosexual or gay without any room for nuance, you either have no clue about sexuality or are so appalled by the thought that anything that even remotely reminds you of it must immediately be thrown out and buried. Probably both. And you can think what you want, but the moment you open your mouth or write a post about it you're spreading your poisonous homophobia to the world and it's just fair that people who care about tolerance and open-mindedness would try to counter that mindset. It's to prevent people from thinking noone cares just because homophobes don't care. We do care, even heterosexual people like me (gasp!). I'd like to think we don't live in times where homophobia was socially accepted or even supported anymore, so I (and others) try to create an atmosphere that reflects that. When people get called out on being homophobic everytime they are it slowly changes the collective mindset of society towards the matter (at least that's the hope). It doesn't have to do with you actually physically hurting gay people (at that point you're a criminal and need to be in prison and probably therapy), but with the mindset itself being outdated, unreasonable, hurtful and hostile, even if you are 'so tolerant as to not bash their heads in when you see them on the street' (which seems to be what a lot of homophobes think is tolerance). It's not like racism is only when people get physically hurt either, there are a lot of other ways to hurt people or to discriminate against them. no.. the characters are not gay, they're bisexual... whatever, they still like dudes. And I think there is one key concept that continuously seems to escape you... I DON'T GIVE A SHIT!!! It's a very zen concept. I truly don't care how you feel, how gay people feel, how the lgbt community feels, or how anyone feels. I think homophobia should reflect upon actual hatred of gays, not whether or not someone is willing to watch gay anime or not. And what's this "poisonous homophobia" I keep hearing about? The only gays I hate are annoying wanna-be activists who go around, suiing everyone they feel like, crying discrimination upon private churches and business's, and pretending like gays deserve some special treatment. What have I said that's so offensive, other than I don't watch anime with gays in it... and if someone, gay or straight, is offended by my choice of anime, fuck them. I don't care how someone feels about my choice of what I wanna watch or not. People like you are offensive to gay people... I bet most real homosexuals don't give a shit about what I choose to watch or not. People like you are giving them a bad name, as if they're all self-righteous freaks. There are homosexuals who have enough sense to know that shit doesn't matter. Meanwhile, people like you drive the negative stereotype that gays are over-sensitive pussies who get offended easlly. If anyone is spreading negativity towards homosexuals, it's YOU |
|
| [quote=silversongwriter] no.. the characters are not gay, they're bisexual... whatever, they still like dudes.[/spoiler] As I said, no room for nuance. Sexuality is absolute and every act commited has to be because liking guys is an essential part of his self. Not because of the genetic manipulation they mentioned a few episodes earlier that just doesn't draw a line between genders because for the intended purpose gender was irrelevant. These concepts seem too nuanced for you though since they don't treat sexuality as something absolute where you can either 'like dudes or be normal' basically. Sexuality is mostly vague and it just depends on what mindset society implanted in you whether Homosexuality is seem as something disgusting (christianity) or if sexuality is just seen as another part of life that can be part of all kinds of different relationships. And I think there is one key concept that continuously seems to escape you... I DON'T GIVE A SHIT!!! It's a very zen concept. I truly don't care how you feel, how gay people feel, how the lgbt community feels, or how anyone feels. That is exactly my point. You don't give a shit how your homophobia may make other people feel. That's the intolerance and poisonous atmosphere I was talking about. Pretty sure racists don't give a fuck how their remarks make people of other races feel. That's what makes them racist assholes. Not giving a fuck does not make you tolerant. I think homophobia should reflect upon actual hatred of gays, not whether or not someone is willing to watch gay anime or not. It's a mindset, not the act of hating individual people. It's not only being unable to handle real, gay people, but not accepting the concept of Homosexuality itself as something completely normal that shouldn't be treated with disgust, despise or disrespect, no matter the context. When 5 seconds of kissing make the whole 8-10 hour experience unwatchable, that's a unreasonable aversion against homosexuality, ergo homophobia. I don't see much to argue there. One kiss = the whole characters is GAY to it's core = all other elements of his character and personality become immediately unwatchable since 'they are tainted'' when they are GAY. That's your line of thinking in a nutshell. And from any perspective except strong homophobia that is completely irrational. If you're honestly telling me you don't know why gay people or even people who care would be offended by your statements, then I really can't help you, your thinking is already too far gone. You can't really argue with extremists of any kind, and your stance on homosexuality is definitely extreme no matter how much you pat yourself on the shoulder for managing to not violently attack them on the streets. I mean I have stuff I don't like either, but when it's at the point where 5 seconds make you completely hate an anime it's an unhealthy obsession warranting therapy, not a question of slightly different preferences. That's not the mindset of a reasonable person. A normal person who just isn't homosexual might be a bit annoyed for a while (like I get annoyed by tsunderes or ecchi scenes) and then focus on the actual contents again, not spending another thought on it. That you can't do that is prove enough that your aversion is unhealthily strong. And what's this "poisonous homophobia" I keep hearing about? The only gays I hate are annoying wanna-be activists who go around, suiing everyone they feel like, crying discrimination upon private churches and business's, and pretending like gays deserve some special treatment. The fact that a lot of people think that statements and opinions like yours are actually tolerant and that it's 'normal' treatment, actually does support the argument that we still have the need for 'special' treatment (as in protection from discrimination). If the normal treatment is talking about them as being 'tainted' then yes, they deserve 'special' treatment. What have I said that's so offensive, other than I don't watch anime with gays in it... and if someone, gay or straight, is offended by my choice of anime, fuck them. I don't care how someone feels about my choice of what I wanna watch or not. On the one hand everything you said (see the rest of my post) and on the other hand especially that stuff about gay characters being 'tainted' (as if that was a morally neutral description) and your absolute views on sexuality as a whole offended me personally since I don't want to live in the middle ages under christian morality. Not in a personal sense, in a very general sense, the same sense that tells me I wouldn't want to live in a society full of racists or antisemitic Nazis. I don't argue against you personally, I argue against your mindset since a lot of people share it and, like you, even think it's a tolerant one. People like you are offensive to gay people... I bet most real homosexuals don't give a shit about what I choose to watch or not. People like you are giving them a bad name, as if they're all self-righteous freaks. There are homosexuals who have enough sense to know that shit doesn't matter. Meanwhile, people like you drive the negative stereotype that gays are over-sensitive pussies who get offended easlly. If anyone is spreading negativity towards homosexuals, it's YOU Yeah, right. I'm not even gay (that assumption on your side just proves my point about your black/white wordlview), I just don't want to share a society with intolerant, ignorant people who have outdated morals and are ignorant of their own intolerance. It's one thing to be a blatant homophobe, it's another to think of yourself as a messager of tolerance at the same time. I'll always call out hypocrisy, until my dying breath. Seeing how you still think this is only about your choice of anime just shows how ignorant you are of the actual issue (probably on purpose since I spelled it out CLEARLY already). If you find some gay people who support your views over mine be my guest to introduce them to the discussion. But I doubt it, since that would mean you'd have to go and seek out homosexuals, even communicate with them. Could you even do that? I mean, they are 'tainted' after all. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| I feel like Miyazaki is a MAL regular who likes to randomly say shit about otaku culture just to see AD explode |
 |
Rance-sama said: Zergneedsfood said: I've posted this before, but a common thing that people don't realize is that sex sells far less than what people expect. Sex sells is a "thing" because it sounds good and it has alliteration on top of being a rather logical statement based on what we know of human nature, but one thing you actually learn when you do some preliminary academic studies in marketing is that empirically....the idea that "sex sells" is very dependent on precisely what product you are selling and how you do it. Sex appeal is incredibly hit or miss, so there's a lot of possibility for something with sex to not sell at all. Which, I think, is testament to why ecchi doesn't sell nearly as well as people think it does. The statistics dictate otherwise, unfortunately. Shitty ecchi shows gets more views on the air and sells more on average than other anime. Fanservice, regardless if you want to admit it; sells. Kuroko's Basketball is a good example. It's a meh show but fujoshi hyped the shit out of it, drew a trillion doujinshi and it's selling well. Compare it to something like Terror in Tokyo... and well you start to see a pattern. Are you serious? you are trying to prove ''ecchi and fanservice sells'' by using a Shounen sports anime? (Free! would have made more sense) That's straight up BS, there was virtually no fanservice, in the first season of KnB, aside from some scenes from Momoi. Saying that ''fujoshi'' bought it, because of some doujins is pretty baseless. The manga was doing decently before the anime, and just like other big hits, it became really popular after it's first anime adaptation, which is the whole point of adaptations. Furthermore saying ''fanservice sells'' is incredibly vague, as most anime have some form of fanservice, whether it's sexual or otherwise, and it's hard to prove that it's the reason for good sales. And no the statistics prove that ecchi shows aside from exceptions don't sell that great (above 5-10k). Average sales of ecchi anime in 2014: No Game No Life 8,655 Trinity Seven 4,064 Mangaka-san to Assistant-san to 616 Nourin 2,423 Madan no Ou to Vanadis 3,540 Seirei Tsukai no Blade Dance 1,978 Majimoji Rurumo 280 Seikoku no Dragonar 1,183 Rail Wars! 2,004 Soul Eater! NOT 288 Kenzen Robo Daimidaler 1,879 Saikin, Imouto no Yousuga Chotto Okashinda ga. 1,365 Maken-ki! two 3,199 Momokyun Sword 501 Source: http://www.someanithing.com/1045 So yeah great sales. Only one is above 5k (which happen to have more than ecchi going for it, Surprise! surprise!), 10 below 3k. |
tsudecimoFeb 1, 2015 1:45 AM
|
More topics from this board
» 🎖️Ending of all time & discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )nirererin - Jul 28 |
978 |
by WatchTillTandava
»»
4 minutes ago |
|
» What anime that had a sanitized dub would you want to get a new dub first?TheBlockernator - Sep 6 |
6 |
by LSSJ_Chloe
»»
17 minutes ago |
|
» Let's go, Rainbow Crown! Waifu War Hair Color-Edition! (Quarterfinals) ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )TheMinkalex - Aug 15 |
380 |
by MinakoBestGirl
»»
19 minutes ago |
|
Sticky: » AWC 2025 Anime Watching Challenge - Sign-Up (Open Until December 10th) ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )AWC_mod - Jan 1 |
869 |
by belleandoatmeal
»»
26 minutes ago |
|
» Are you more empathetic to female characters?TheBlockernator - Yesterday |
31 |
by nishant0
»»
27 minutes ago |