| Alright I'm going to remove 2003 then and watch it myself because I never did watch it in full. |
| I see Princess Mononoke and San listed in relations;but what about Lady Eboshi (Gozen, Eboshi)? She is the leader of Iron Town, the woman out right refuses to bend to a mans will! She is a wonderfully feminist character as well :) |
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| TW: Prositution, sex slavery, guns. Lady Eboshi is awesome, all of the women workers she has she found in sex slavery, paid for, and allows them to work and earn their own wages. She also supplies medical treatment and comfortable living situations for people with severe diseases without making them feel like they are inferior. She relies on women and the disabled and they do a better job than the male able workers in other towns. She also makes sure that her weapons designers make weapons that are light enough for the average woman to carry and fire without special training so that the women can help defend themselves and their town. |
| I think I saw Mononoke when I was too young to appreciate Eboshi because she certainly sounds awesome. :) |
| Yeah I only vaguely remember that stuff about Eboshi, I don't remember the thing about the women being sex slaves but holy crap that's seriously awesome. |
| I personally think she's one of Miyazaki's most interesting characters: you want to dislike her for her disregard for non-human life, but at the same time she's such a remarkable person (and one whose care for her citizenry is clearly sincere) that you can't entirely feel that way. I wonder if her characterization reflects a belief that even the best people are capable of doing terrible things if society has accepted those aspects. On the other hand, if the town really is entirely her creation (as in, the industrialization was her doing) then that interpretation wouldn't work. I need to re-watch it, since I don't entirely remember those details. I recall that I've managed to mispronounce or misspell her name many, many times, also. ^^; |
| I've started watching Revolutionary Girl Utena (finished episode 4 now) and I'm enjoying it very much. Though I've noticed there are a lot of weird brother-imouto relationships going on. I also get this Mean Girls vibe from it for some reason. Nanami = Regina George? I think the only thing that's bothering me so far is how they recycle the same music over and over again. ): But I hope I stick with it till the end and enjoy every episode! |
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| Oh yeah there's a lot of incest in Utena. Later on there is actual physical incest as well, fair warning. But Utena does not glorify it at all- If anything, like with everything else in the series, it's deconstructing the whole incest fantasy thing. |
| A lot of what nevermore999 says about FMA 2003 is just plain factually inaccurate (like, Lust's development is absolutely NOT "just about a love triangle", she...isn't even really part of a love triangle at all? It's part of the backstory of the woman she was created to replace, but Lust's journey as her own character is 100% about finding her own identity, and to what extent it does or doesn't jive with the person she used to be. And about finding out where her allegiances are and if she still wants to follow Dante). But having gotten in discussions with her on Tumblr about it and knowing how those usually go, I'd rather not go point-by-point. It's all very obvious if you re-watch the series. The fact is while 2003 downplayed some female characters (I think the idea that Winry was massively downplayed to be...debatable - it did DIFFERENT things with her, I would say), it promoted other ones significantly, Lust being just one example. It also created new ones, including making Sloth a male character and making the main villain a woman (though I don't think I'd call Dante a feminist portrayal by any means). And while it definitely did some very problematic things with how it dealt with Rose, it wasn't like the manga and Brotherhood were free of making light of sexual assault. There was a "lol sexual harassment" joke where Grumman tapped Rebecca on the butt, and a homophobic stereotype character (Garfiel) who existed to sexually-harass male characters for laughs. Anyway, I wasn't suggesting that 2003 be listed as a "feminist" anime. I don't find either version of FMA very feminist. I just don't think "female characters get to kick butt and aren't treated like crap" is sufficient to call Brotherhood a "feminist" anime, when most of those female characters' arcs revolve around male characters. The whole FMA debate is really strained and it would probably be better if this group stayed out of it by not listing either, tbh. |
idislikemalApr 12, 2014 2:46 AM
| Honestly, it's nice if people want to interpret the FMA manga as "subversive" of gendered tropes, but that's defining a lot of that pretttttttty far away from the original intent and cultural context. A lot of what people praise FMA Mangahood for as "feminist" is entirely their own interpretations and looks very very different in the context of Japan. Like, I guess maybe it's "subversive" that Winry has a huge plan to get herself out of her own hostage situation, but I doubt that was intended as "fuck this gendered trope!" since she can only do it with the assistance of several men, and one of her very next appearances in the series is about how she has to stay home while Ed battles the Big Bad so she can keep a pie warm for him. Riza never has some grand plan for getting out of her hostage situation, btw, she just does because the government infrastructure falls apart and it's no different from how Mustang's men who were pulled away from him by the government in a similar manner, manage to reassmble themselves to help lead his coup. Winry in general is a huge example of "this thing that might look progressive from a Western lens is soooo not from a Japanese lens." Western feminists on Tumblr like to talk about how progressive she is for having both tomboyish AND girly traits, but she falls into a pretty common pattern in anime where a tomboyish girl has her more feminine traits emphasized more and more as she gets slotted into "heterosexual love interest" status. In the Japanese context, that's used as a way to *apologize* for her more masculine traits because those are seen as unbecoming for a good woman and future wife. The stuff where, instead of using her medical skills to help out in the Promised Day battles (which she totally could do, especially given what a big deal the narrative makes of them earlier), she instead has to stay home and "keep a pie warm", fits into this completely. Individual scenes I've seen people overanalyze to call her feminist, like one where she proves to Hughes, who makes some "boys will be boys and shut in their emotions" statement, that being feminine and open about her emotions wins the day - again, might be feminist in a Western context, but in the context of a society with gender roles as strict as Japan's, is just a way to uphold those gendered ways of behaving for women. And Hiromu Arakawa has never said anything to the effect of intending her series to be "feminist". The only thing I've seen are misinterpretations of something she said about "showing women who work", which was meant less as being about feminism and more about "I grew up on a farm where everyone was useful, and I believe people should be useful." It's so obviously an attempt to fit a comment that had nothing to do with that into a different ideological context to suit people's purposes. Long story short, with all that coupled with the mockery of sexual harassment/assault in "jokes" throughout the series (both in the manga/anime itself and in the omakes/4-Koma theater shorts based on them), I don't think FMA Mangahood is all that feminist. Maybe it has a decent amount of interesting and plot-moving ladies for a shounen anime, but I can list a number of shounen that kick its butt in that regard (both Attack on Titan and Evangelion have more women with more plot importance, and less of them have motivations that revolve around male characters), so it isn't even the *best* there. If we've removed other works for being "open to feminist interpretations but totally not-feminist in their original contexts" - like Puella Magi Madoka Magica* - I think it should be removed as well. Plus, it just keeps the entire FMA debate wank away from the group, which is always a good thing. *I don't know if this is the particular reason that it was removed on this group - I know your post said something about "sexist tropes without enough empowerment to make up for it", and I...don't really agree at all and would be interested in an explanation for what those sexist elements are, but okay - but that's what I've seen around the Internet. That those "sexist" elements are things that are mainly seen that way in the original context. And personally I'd say that both FMA are disqualified as being feminist for a similar reason. Lots of playing into women being oriented around men in their motivations, and I don't think they empower women enough to be considered "feminist". Plus, making light of sexual assault/harassment. (Hell, I'd argue that the FMA manga and Brotherhood do this worse than 2003 does, because even with the issues with Rose's storyline, I don't think it makes *light* of it. Although I don't think that's handled nearly as poorly as nevermore999 characterizes it anyway, but it still missed the mark by making it primarily about Ed's reactions rather than Rose's own.) Lastly, I apologize for how rude I came off in my earlier post about Madoka Magica. I think I saw some shades of debates I've had about this elsewhere on the Internet and jumped to lots of conclusions, and I shouldn't have done that. |
idislikemalApr 12, 2014 9:11 AM
| Look, Titan, forgive me for being rude, but why are you here? For friends, or to continue feminist arguments you've had on tumblr? This is supposed to be a safe haven for the girls of MAL to feel safely able to express their opinions without ridicule, but also to make FRIENDS. The lists are not a priority nor are they the core thing of our club. They are just lists made by a few girls who share an opinion. I don't want this to be the deeper part of Tumblr 2.0 where it's just feminists who really SHOULD just agree to disagree on some very minor opinion differences and then just move on with their lives and be friends because in the end we all want the same damn thing. There are more important things to discuss, more important things in life, than what nuances the officers happen to agree as feminist or not. I made this club because I was sick of fanboys arguing about stupid shit. I'd rather not see the same thing happen here. Madoka isn't going to be added, I asked people to stop bringing it up. FMA:B stays. I'm sorry you disagree but arguing about it is only causing unneeded stress for yourself and anyone else involved. Move on to the next subject and start trying to make friends please. This applies to ANYONE who pops in ONLY to talk about how they disagree with the lists. |
| It might not be the main purpose but this is basically the only place on MAL where such things can be discussed. Whether FMA gets removed or not there is no reason we can't still talk about it is there? Not to mention such discussion can lead to friendship anyway. As long as it doesn't evolve into a fight I really don't see what's wrong with it. |
| Oh I have no problems with discussion- I just worry that Titan's only posts in the entire club have been arguments as to why FMA isn't feminist and it sounds like she feels a tad over passionate about that subject in particular and frequently gets into arguments over it. |
| Watched Kita e: Diamond Dust Drops recently. Do not let the description fool you! There are 2 episodes per woman, they are about her issues in life. Be it getting married before she is ready, wanting to succeed at business but not coming to terms with feelings first, or even being true to your talents and still being friends with a competitor (best friend). I really find this one to be full of strong women. Some of the stories make you want to cry, others make you get the "you go girl" vibe. It is only a short 12 episodes, but worth the watch :) p.s. Sometimes you get the feeling that the writer is casting the woman as weak, but then you find it is just the opposite; the characters evolve in just 2 short episodes. That is a feat that is hard to accomplish in even 20 episodes. Well done in my opinion. p.p.s. Be warned, it starts off a bit slow. |
RachelPandaApr 22, 2014 9:58 PM
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| I'm 40 episodes into Fresh Precure and I would make a good argument for it being added to the list. Like most magical girl shows it's all about female friendship and girls kicking ass and saving the world while looking great doing so. even aside from that there are specific things Fresh does well: - Miki is a rare example of a girl who is proud of her appearance and herself (her catchphrase is "I'm perfect!") but is never shamed for it or presented as self absorbed.(as to often confident female characters are) and her compassion and supportiveness toward other characters is also shown. -It also contains an utterly fantastic character arc which is centered around one female characters relationships with the others and how they help her develop as a person. (not going into details because spoilers) -Also of note is the guy who has a crush on Love struggles to present himself as stereotypically "manly" but fails and is often saved by her. He grows out of this attitude over time. He's also never shamed for his failures - when a villain mocks him for being afraid of thunder Love shuts him down. The girls also save other guys a lot too In summery this has been a really great show with some awesome development and I would heartily recommend it be put on the list. |
MemoBookwormMay 1, 2014 8:23 PM
| I'm okay with adding pretty much anything Precure to the list. |
kitajima said: You know, I think I read all of Rumiko's works when I was in middle school, and despite all the bad, Ranma was still my favourite. Because it was utterly hilarious. Sometimes overdone, sometimes just stupid, which is hard to avoid with a, what 50 volumes?, manga, but it had its absolutely wonderful moments. I'm joining quickly just to say this.. I'm not really interested in joining but I think ranma 1/2 is extremely girl friendly and feminist.. Ya it does have subtle fanservice like nipples but it is from the 70's when things like that weren't a big issue (my mom used to live in japan as a kid and watched ranma and it aired in children's hours despite the nipples) also when they are shown they are never shown in a sexual way just a kind of "oh well all girls have them" such as ranma in his girl form just kind of lounges about without a shirt like it's normal and nobody makes a big fuss over it, it's just there. Also the writer of ranma 1/2 is a female. Though it has a harem setting all the girls have their own distinct and unique personalities and aren't over shadowed by the boys.. In fact they are stronger for the majority then the men. Akane is a great female lead who doesn't revolve around ranma and her love for him. Takahashi refuses to reduce her to a chibi (cute) cheerleader for Ranma, which is ageneric treatment for action sequences, making her a proactive (if not always effective) contributor to action and plot. Also she is not involved in any of the fanservice which is always left to female ranma. http://animelovin.tumblr.com/post/83488105765 this is an occurring theme. Woman not caring about their looks or how men perceive them. Not worrying about being cute or trying to attract some guy (sure some of the girls do try to get ranma's attention but when he does something that makes them made they let him know and call him out on it) For example shampoo extremely in love with ranma and constantly trying to get his attention in an ep ranma did something (it's been long can't remember what) to make her made and she said something along the lines of "I'm ashamed Ranma, I didn't think you were this kind of man" Also it should be noted that for the large part of ranma the plot only moves forward through Ranma's interactions or desire for Akane never the other way around. He is the one who eventually pursues her. They never make Akane's character about Ranma. Takahashi has also made Akane a very strong character, both physically and in terms of resilience. When imprisoned, she tries to fight it instead of giving up and waiting for rescue. She rarely, if ever, cries. Also there is a book about girls in shonen manga that makes a point that the three akane sisters are there to exemplify the roles that the modern japanese woman is supposed to have. for example the oldest sister is the picture of the perfect japanese house wife but then the writer added the other two sisters to contrast that.. The middle sister attacks the system, she chooses to manipulate and be cunning to make herself in control. Akane rebels almost subconsciously We see this through her apathy towards the system. She refuses to be complicitous of so patriarchal a society,symbolically by (for the most part) rejecting the tie of engagement to Ranma as set up by their fathers. While she also loves to fight and show of her strength she also likes stereotypical female traits such as the ability to cook or the desire to manipulate is somewhere between necessary and inspirational for the modern Japanese woman. Ranma as a whole is a visual representation of the fact that all have a masculine and a feminine side to a greater or lesser extent .where Ranma could return his body to normal, he tells Akane, “I suppose in the end I understand that my girl side is always a part of me anyway. Maybe it was never a curse to begin with. The writer for ranma got the idea to use water to make the change because of the segregated baths in japan that separate males and females, ranma is crossing that divided wall. For an anime of it's time it was extremely important to young girls especially akane's character because it taught them they don't have to be feminine or a certain type of girl, they don't have to fall into one category. They could be strong, cute, tom boyish, cunning, smart, talented and more |
grumpytoastMay 14, 2014 1:50 PM
| It's worth noting, of course, that female mangaka have written some terribly sexist series. Sumomomo Momomo is my case in point. That only relates to the "the artist is female" point, and I have no other objections to what you say. |
| Hi! I'm new~. Alright so it's been a while since I actually read the manga so maybe I've forgotten some important things about it, but could Nana (by Ai Yazawa) be considered feminist? Sorry this ended up being pretty lengthy. Warning, spoilers (how do you insert a hide/show button? uwu;;): I mean, it does have more male characters than female ones, but the two mains (Nana & Nana/Hachi) are both women. I always really liked this manga because I feel it has a lot of realistic characters, and while not everyone is necessarily stereotypically 'strong' I feel that they are dynamic and interesting and not defined in any way by this-and-this is how a female character should be and act like. I like how the friendship between Nana and Hachi is very much a focus, and that you have the contrast between Nana being career-oriented, while Hachi dreams about romance and family and being an house-wife - you also have Junko and Hachi's friendship which I really enjoyed. Actually I think Junko is awesome as a character in general. And you have Mai/Misato who started as a fan and eventually ends up being Nana's manager - I don't know I could go on talking about Miu and Reira, but my point is mostly that you have a lot of different female characters, and I don't feel like any of them are presented in a negative light, regardless of being strong/weak/romantic/realistic.etc. I also like how sex is presented in the manga, you have female characters who have sexual desires and that's not a big deal, and you have characters who are more reluctant towards sex (like Miu) and that's also not a big deal - no one is shamed for being 'promiscuous' or a 'prude'. There is a lot of focus on romance, and I feel it portrays romance in a pretty realistic way. Everyone has different feelings and views and it's varied how much they care about love. Nana struggling with feeling that she wants to show that she is as good/better than Ren as a musician, and how that is interfering with her relationship and her feelings for him, Hachi falling in love very often, Junko having a stable relationship with Kyosuke - you also have the fact that Hachi probably (? I'm not sure if this was confirmed before the manga 'ended') divorcing Takumi, which I feel was a turn for the better because he was an abusive jerk (and a complex and interesting character, but still an abusive jerk). Ahh, I'm sorry if this ended up being a bit all over the place, this is my first time ever writing about a manga in general, and also from a feminist perspective. I'm not completely sure how valid my points are though, I might be misinterpreting the manga because I feel it's very realistic and.. I've always viewed things that represent female characters as not necessarily strong but realistic as positive? orz |
| Nana was on our list but I removed it because the women are treated like garbage in it and they just accept it. I remember one scene where Ren choked Nana as part of foreplay but she didn't really okay it and then they made a joke out of it afterwards. Your points are incredibly valid, worry not, and to be honest Nana is one that I really do toss around now and then as to whether or not it is feminist. The women are portrayed realistically, the whole show has an air of realism, the focus on romance is great, but my biggest hang up is Takumi and Hachi. He rapes her in one scene- Just straight up rape, and she just goes with it. I also hated how Junko thought that Hachi should have to feel responsible for what's his face cheating on her, and the show made you think that yeah, she should feel responsible, and that wasn't right. Hachi was an airhead but no one (except in rare cases) deserves to be cheated on, he could have told her, that really was all on him, yet the series wanted to punish her for it too. That really bothered me. I guess really, my biggest issue was Hachi and Takumi. The anime just kinda kept them together, not sure about how the manga handled it before going on hiatus, but the anime had them stay married from what I gathered. I also have hangups about Ai Yazawa in general because I read Paradise Kiss in high school and I remember That the really cute loli like girl's boyfriend had raped her in order to make her his in the first place, and the series portrayed them as madly in love despite this. That REALLLLLLLYYYYY bothered me. I also didn't like that the main character was just used as a sex toy essentially and then discarded and then ending just felt so empty tome, like the main character was just kinda empty. I think she went on to have a relationship with the guy that really always had loved her, but not before being forced to be a friend with benefits. To me both series feel very real, as though these were things that the author had experienced. While they are good series I just don't think we can call them feminist. But I do appreciate you bringing it up and you do have some VERY valid points and as I said, it's one I do toss around from time to time but ultimately both Nana and Paradise Kiss have rape that just gets excused and passed off like it's nothing. |
| Ohh yeah, I see what you mean! I feel that Ai Yazawa's stories do tend to have a lot of moral black, white and (mostly) grey moments in them - I really agree about Takumi and Hachi though, that's why I'm so sad that the manga didn't continue - who knows, maybe we would finally get some sort of resolution between the two.. And by that I mean them going separate ways. I understand how Hachi reacted when Takumi raped her, but I whole-heartedly agree that I wish something had happened afterwards - Hachi telling Nana and getting help working through it, and leaving Takumi... Actually, I was hoping for the whole Nana and Hachi raising Hachi's child together but yeah, that didn't happen. I had actually forgotten about the first guy who cheated on Hachi, since he doesn't stay relevant for that long - I remember now though, and yeah it did rub me the wrong way that people tried to blame Hachi for him cheating on her. Their relationship wasn't perfect and they both could've tried to communicate better, but in my opinion cheating is totally in the hands of the person doing the cheating. Oh, I read Paradise Kiss too. Personally I liked the ending in a way, I feel that the point that the manga was trying to make about George and Caroline (Yukari? I forgot her actual name) was that they had a passionate relationship, like an artist and a muse (in both ways, since George also helped Caroline become interested in modeling, which she later made a career out of) but that they ultimately didn't have a relationship that could last. I do agree that I didn't feel that Caroline was a very three-dimensional character though, but I feel as though no one in that manga really was, since it was rather short. Bottom-line, I agree with and understand your decision, especially since rape is a very sensitive topic, and I agree it wasn't handled very well in either series. I guess Ai Yazawa's stories are very bittersweet and almost realistic to a fault - gritty and real in the sense that not everything is resolved and fixed and dealt with in a way that the reader might wish it was. |
| Has anyone read Chang Ge Xing ? I'm not done yet but it seems to me that it might be appropriate for our manga relations list . |
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| Well, they do; there's the so-called "girls with guns" subgenre that includes stuff like Noir (and several other Bee Train shows), The Dirty Pair, Bubblegum Crisis, and Gunslinger Girl (in something of a variation). It's less common now than it was in the 80s and 90s, I think; some of the most recent examples I can think of (e.g. Upotte!!, Stella Woman's Academy) are more of a weird hybrid between Kon!-style slice-of-life and the genre than anything else. They do tend to be directed towards a male audience, however (hence the name of the subgenre), and while not all of them are full of fanservice some of them certainly are. |
| Yeah, I saw a bunch of the 90's ones. It does seem like they've dropped off, sadly. I can overlook some fan service, but not slice of life, lol. Imo, even if the characters are fighters, the action's not the focus of those shows, and they're distinct from action shows, where the pace, or at least suspense, is important. Not that there's anything wrong with them. |
| Uta Koi has a lot of strong female characters who follow their dreams and break out of gender roles. A few of the episodes bothered me, but for the most part it was very positive. |
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| http://princessheartfilia.tumblr.com/post/91858920838/khgnh-anime-anime-challenge-day-27-most-badass I think we might have to add Rave Master because DAMN this is awesome. I'll read it first, but this gives me more reason to do so. |
AmberlehJul 15, 2014 10:11 AM
| Rave Master does seem interesting . Might check it out later . Anyway, besides Chang ge xing , I have another history based manga called Yae no Sakura.The story is about Yaeko a young girl with a fascination for guns .(based on the life of Yaeko Yamamoto) .It is pretty interesting ,although the story is currently not focusing so much on her . Try it out if you want it's relatively short :) |
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xxHxx said: I have not been very active here lately, so I maybe asking something that have already been discussed... If it's the case I sorry. I gave a look through the forum and did not found it.. So... could we add "Inari Kon Kon Koi Iroha" to the positive list? I took a look at the list and it's not there. I know that the anime has it's low moments, with Uka's brother, but everything else is so positive! The development of friendship between girls different in looks and personalities, the girl who likes other girl is accepted and supported by her other friends, Inari growing up, learning about life... Anyway, I think is a great anime. Yeah we discussed it briefly and it IS something I would like to discuss more. I watched it and indeed, it has some REALLY AMAZING things, but at the same time it has some REALLLY big downsides so I'm torn. Like, the positive things in it are SO positive, and SO empowering and great, but the downsides are VERY negative and problematic. If it was a little fanservice that would be one thing, but the show kind of adopts some very harmful cultural norms and runs with them. So I'd love to discuss it more if we could. I'm not totally against adding it, I just want to talk about it because it's such a unique case. |
| I know there's some fanservice in the Hellsing Ultimate series, but how about Integra Hellsing as one of the feminist characters? She runs the Hellsing Corporation and has a very strong attitude. I think the relationship between her and Alucard is pretty interesting too, since, though he protects her, she is essentially his ruler. It's been ages since I saw the series, so I don't remember the details perfectly, but she was one of the first female characters in anime that I really found interesting. |
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SunnyShadows said: I know there's some fanservice in the Hellsing Ultimate series, but how about Integra Hellsing as one of the feminist characters? She runs the Hellsing Corporation and has a very strong attitude. I think the relationship between her and Alucard is pretty interesting too, since, though he protects her, she is essentially his ruler. It's been ages since I saw the series, so I don't remember the details perfectly, but she was one of the first female characters in anime that I really found interesting. I'd have to agree, Integra is a super badass. Anyone have any objections with her going on the list? |
xxHxx said: I agree that Hourou Musuko should be added to the positive list! But I have not read the mangá, only watched the anime.Honestly, this series is one of the best ones that I have watched. The manga was very good from what I read. I say add it. Anyone watched Arete-hime? Wasn't a great movie but I think it belongs on the list. |
| I just finished Wandering Son and I'll definitely add it. It was fantastic. |
Amberleh said: I just finished Wandering Son and I'll definitely add it. It was fantastic. Great now watch Red Garden so it can be added too :( Also I'm almost done with Princess Tutu. I've seen it called feminist a lot so I'm surprised it isn't on the list already. But while it subverts a lot of stuff like the princess saving the prince, and the rival female character being sympathetic and so on, in the end it's still about two girls fighting over a dude. A boring dude. |
Earwen said: Amberleh said: I just finished Wandering Son and I'll definitely add it. It was fantastic. Great now watch Red Garden so it can be added too :( Also I'm almost done with Princess Tutu. I've seen it called feminist a lot so I'm surprised it isn't on the list already. But while it subverts a lot of stuff like the princess saving the prince, and the rival female character being sympathetic and so on, in the end it's still about two girls fighting over a dude. A boring dude. I 100% support adding Princess Tutu, I think it's very feminist. I especially like that she solves peoples problems without fighting. And I love how she does it through dance. Also I love love love ballet and I think it's sad that it's the only anime with a lot of ballet. And well I have to argue that in the end it's not two girls fighting over a dude since I never saw Ahiru as fighting over him? Only trying to save him and restore his heart. And remember, she does have a thing with Fakir, who is great ;) |
| Still Ahiru's whole life revolves around Mytho . She doesn't even want to be human for her own sake, nope it's for Mytho. It's literally the only thing she cares about. Even though he has the personality of a toaster. And later a possessed toaster. |
| Well, you could argue that because it's about two girls and the boy is just an object, it's defeating norms, but I see your point and as usual, my memory's vague, lol. I did love the music though. Swan Lake, and one of my faves, The Aquarium. |
| I do recognize that it subverts a lot of fairy tale tropes. I wouldn't be opposed to it being added to the relations. There are just some aspects of it most people seem to conveniently ignore. I loved the music too! I love Tchaikovsky and someday I'll be able to write his name without looking it up <3 |
Earwen said: Still Ahiru's whole life revolves around Mytho . She doesn't even want to be human for her own sake, nope it's for Mytho. It's literally the only thing she cares about. Even though he has the personality of a toaster. And later a possessed toaster. This is exactly WHY it hasn't been added. I think it was added initially but I took it off because of the points you brought up, as I also took issue with them. |
| Ok, I see your points about Princess Tutu. |
Kaceseev said: And since everything I probably would have said about Princess Tutu has already been said, I won't butt in...this time, anyway. Do butt in! I'd like to hear your opinion. Amber hasn't even finished the series so she might still change her opinion. Besides this club needs more activity. |
| It does make sense. I had posted the other stuff before finishing it and I agree about the last episode . I wouldn't say it makes my complaints completely invalid, but it did change my opinion on some of it. Actually that's why I said Amber might still change her opinion too. |
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