cipheron said: It shouldn't really come as a shock when I tell you this - both shows are by the same studio - they specialize in adapting this stuff - basically stuff that makes other studios head to the bathroom to hurl. They've made 1 decent adaptation, to date, and that was Mysterious Girlfriend X, which isn't really misogynistic, but has a very "squicky" premise. No wonder. Though, as much as I hate to admit it, the studio's overall art style is not that bad. It just kind of saddens me that it's wasted on so many...bad adaptations. They probably also make more money than studios who actually churn out decent series. |
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Amberleh said: And don't EVEN get me started on the COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY HAREM ELEMENTS. SAO needs a harem tag, because that's what it is. A harem. And no, I'm not going to just discount the second half. The second half featured attempted rape and tentacle rape both for the sake of FAN SERVICE. Hello. That's not okay. I'm not even adding the FT manga to relations because it features that in later chapters (though it isn't featuring it as attempted rape, just torture, but torture as fan service isn't okay.) There's also the fact that every female who gets any real screentime save for like, one, falls in love with Kirito. They even say that his little sister was actually his cousin JUST SO THAT SHE CAN FALL IN LOVE WITH KIRITO. Ummm, this is not okay. Thank you. You are the first person I have encountered who has expressed this opinion. I feel like when I have complained about this I've fallen on deaf ears. Then again, this show breeds a defensiveness in its fans that I find very frustrating. I already find this show irritating because of plot holes and the sheer amount of time it wastes with dating sim antics early on. I have somehow never spoken to anybody who has agreed with me. |
SarcotarascusN said: Thank you. You are the first person I have encountered who has expressed this opinion. Really? That's...kinda sad, actually. You should come to a certain Uber club here on MAL. We've bashed made fun of discussed SAO to death there. Though, it's not that much of an interesting topic anymore, but I am sure the flame will ignite again as soon as the second season starts airing. |
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| I see people complaining about SAO everywhere. |
| When I have seen people criticize Sword Art Online, they have not mentioned the problems mentioned in that post. It does feel to me that I hear pretty much the same story from everybody regarding SAO: "Oh my god, the first half was awesome and the romance was SO GOOD, but then the second half was stupid. Please make a second season". Here's what I think: people watched it while it was airing, and since it can be very entertaining, is paced fairly well outside of the harem episodes, and is well-animated, people got worked up and went into a mode where they didn't register the problems with it. The buzz surrounding it contributed as well. I think this is also what happened with Attack on Titan (which I did actually really enjoy, but has some real flaws that don't seem to get talked about often). What I find surprising is that I've heard few North American fans, most of whom probably haven't read the light novels, complain about the plot holes. I say that because the anime basically went with the assumption that if you had read the light novels (which they presumed you had) you would overlook the fact that they don't mention important points (e.g. what happens to their comatose bodies when they are in the game). I guess the buzz I mentioned earlier can make you overlook just about anything. I'll stop, since I seem to be digging up a zombie-thread. But I have to say I appreciate that someone agrees with me. I've tried to be patient with other people about the show, but I've gotten a bit sick of talking about it because badmouthing it can render you a persona non grata or, at least, make people think you're just being a pill. At the one forum I do really hang out at much, the people were fine, but it was clear that my criticisms were getting on their nerves. |
Earwen said: I see people complaining about SAO everywhere. I know, which is why I was surprised to hear Sarcotarascun's experience. Actually, I hear so much from both sides that I am frankly tired of it all and am trying to avoid anything SAO-related at this point. Now I just need to convince myself that Sawashiro Miyuki is not a good enough reason to watch and suffer through the upcoming sequel. |
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| I won't bring it up again. I was just happy to not be arguing to a wall for once. |
| Oh, no, you are free to bring it up as much as you want, don't mind us. we may agree or disagree, but I would never have anything about discussing it (as long as it's kept civil) and I am sure most others would't either. |
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| I would suggest Kaze no Stigma as an offender. I have several reasons. 1. There is that dynamic I absolutely cannot stand of a physically strong female character set to inherit her family's dojo or whatnot who is upended by the arrival of a male character. The male character calls her weak and is shown to outdo her whenever they are onscreen; what's worse, she can't ever seem to fight competently when she is onscreen, lest it seem like she fights better than he does. God forbid. :P By show's end, she's basically doing nothing. 2. At the same time, there is this element, which I absolutely cannot stand. A womanizing asshole shows up and is rude to a female character. They argue, fight, and bicker, but the show starts framing it as if she secretly likes him. Soon, it's explicit that she's fallen for him. In spite of the fact that he's an asshole. 3. Ayano (the aforementioned female fighter) has her clothes ripped off in the midst of a battle. God am I sick of that happening. 4. Kazuma (aforementioned asshole), who is asked by a girl how she can repay him after he avenges her brother's death, tells her "with your body". He says similar things on more than one occasion. It is played for laughs. It's also just kind of a badly-made series, but it managed to offend me in addition to being boring and generic. |
| I never watched KnS (I started the first episode and quickly dropped it), but from what I saw of it it pretty much looked like what you described. I have no problems adding it to the list. |
| I remember watching JesuOtaku's review of KnS and tilting my head at the whole thing. No objections to adding it to the list. |
Octochan said: No objections to adding it to the list. Ditto. It's been quite a while since I watced Kaze no Stigma, but even if it didn't have terrible main characters (I hated Kazuma's bullshit with passion), it'd still be no more than a mediocre anime in every regard. Sometimes I wonder how and why I got through some of the anime I watched in my early anime years. |
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metamorphius said: Sometimes I wonder how and why I got through some of the anime I watched in my early anime years. This so much. |
metamorphius said: Sometimes I wonder how and why I got through some of the anime I watched in my early anime years. Yep. I've been there. I am, for example, amazed that I made it through both seasons of Clannad. Then again, I don't think I was really aware of how problematic it was when I was watching it and I'd only recently got into anime at the time. I was basically fishing through whatever shows I had heard were worth watching. |
| Hello everyone! I'm new to this forum but I love the idea of this topic. I really appreciate the safe space you've created. That being said, there is a manga I read around 7 years ago that I would like to add to the list - Hot Gimmick. Thankfully this series did not get an anime adaptation, and it's not very popular in general. Here's my reasons why it should be added: 1. The story centers around a high school girl, Hatsumi, who is shown as submissive, easily bullied, and generally can't stand up for herself. She is blackmailed by a boy around her age, Ryoki, into becoming his slave. Yeah, his slave ... and guess what he wants her to do? 2. Ryoki is an aggressive abuser who forces Hatsumi to perform sexual acts with him. Against her will. He claims he wants her to "practice" with her so he can prepare for being in a relationship. 3. The worst part: he is not demonized for being a rapist. The story tries to SYMPATHIZE with him - showing him as "human" (he's just a poor confused secretly insecure boy!). Additionally, there is a LOT of victim-blaming (by her sister, the abuser's mother, and I'm pretty sure the abuser himself), and Hatsumi pretty much never tells anyone off. She internalizes the abuse and hate. In the end, she also ends up with this disgusting human being, deciding she wants him as a boyfriend. What kind of message is this sending to young girls? If that's not awful enough, there is also another prominent male character that appears kind at first, but verbally and physically abuses Hatsumi - again, she doesn't stand up for herself - she waits until another man tells him off. Also, there are pretty much no healthy relationships with women either - they are all either ridiculously snobby or also abusive. TLDR; Hot Gimmick is full of abuse, victim blaming, rape apologizing, and a female lead who passively accepts it. This story is labeled as a shoujo, and it disgusts me to think that young women would read this and think the relationships are healthy or idealistic. I don't even know how I got through this series as a teen. Thanks for reading my rant haha :-) |
workwork said: Perhaps there is some merit to the idea of limiting this list to mainstream/popular works? That is, the kind you're likely to be recommended or tempted to read/watch, having reasonable taste. Diabolik Lovers, for instance, has an abysmal rating. I don't think you need to know that it is sexist to steer clear of it. Just my 2c. Oh, and hi. Also new around here. That's a good point, which is totally up to the mods around here - the only thing that concerns me about the series I previously mentioned is that there are very good ratings for it on several sites. I have seen one blog post that rips it apart, but that's about it. Of course, the synopsis that the story basically centers around a girl that becomes a slave is pretty self-explanatory, but since it's labeled as a shoujo manga it concerns me. A harem based around this idea would too obviously be sexist, but one that's a shoujo is not as expected. That's just my opinion though, I'll leave it up to the pros to add it or not! |
| @thewaifu From what I've experienced with reading the mangaka's (of Hot Gimmick) other works, she does tend to write a lot of reverse-harem stories that depict the female leads getting forced into certain situations revolving around guys. I do remember reading Hot Gimmick and thinking how fucked up (excuse my language) all the relationships she had with the male characters were, and didn't get too far with it before dropping it because it really showed no development of her character whatsoever. I would have no problem with that one being added to the list because it is deemed as one of the older "classic" series published by Viz, thus it is somewhat popular for girls to pick up and read. |
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I am so surprised that Kyou, Koi wo Hajimemasu isn't on there. For those of you who haven't read it, I'll spare you the pain of wishing you had wash your brains clean of this garbage don't read it. It is sexist in its idea of a woman's view towards romance and generates a stereotypical character for women.
By everything, I mean that females apparently lack the ability to think for themselves so men have to cheer them up every time they feel depressed. The lead girl falls in love with the lead guy after he saves her ONCE and from then on, she calls him her savior who had saved her dozens of times. She falls helpless and gooey if the guy simply talks to her. The manga characterizes women as two types: the helpless/naive/weak crybaby/damsel in distress that can't do anything for herself (the main lead) and the gorgeous babe that sleeps with anything that moves (practically every other female in the manga). It exaggerates the emotional character of women by making the female lead cry or get jealous over the smallest things. Of course, the female lead has to feel angsty about her appearance and herself in general all the time and has to determine whether her every action will please her boyfriend or cause him to hate her. If she believes that the guy hates her, her life is over---depression, depression, depression. Every decision she makes is completely based on the approval of her male companion. I literally could rage on and on about this for ages...but I believe I have made my point. |
tiffanyhngJan 21, 2014 11:29 PM
| Regarding whether we should only list well-known things..... I sometimes pick out series randomly or based on a glance when I'm running out of good things to watch. Sometimes it pays off; I have found some interesting but obscure anime such as Hanada Shounen Shi by doing this. Other times, it doesn't and I end up with garbage that deserved to be forgotten. Still, it helps broaden my base of knowledge. While I'm not sure how many other people do this, I think it's worth listing egregious examples that aren't necessarily famous simply because it might help that one person who considers trying something but wouldn't otherwise know if it had egregious sexist content or not. |
| @tiffany I recognize the mangaka's art. She's the one who wrote Honey x Honey Drops. I don't really like her works. I think it's safe to say pretty much a majority of her works share the same kind of romance elements. @sarco Yeah, I know what you mean. I tend to pick up really obscure manga and anime titles from time to time, but they might not be well-known by everyone in the club? |
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| The biggest problem with this list, honestly, is that at LEAST 50% of ALL anime (probably more like 80) definitely belong on here. So don't be shocked when titles aren't on the list because if you THINK it belongs on the list, you can assume that it would be on the list if we'd bothered to think of it. But with thousands of anime in existence, it's impossible to add all the sexist ones to the list. I'm open to suggestions as to how to deal with this issue. Maybe have several different threads and different lists- One thread for shoujo/josei, one for ecchi that pretty much says "All ecchi", one for harems.... I don't know. Really, I'm open to any suggestions. It could be that we just abolish this list entirely, though at the same time I do want to continue to point out shows like SAO and F/Z as sexist because so many people think they aren't. |
| Maybe we can have a list of sexist anime that are watched by the general audience? Anime, that at a first glance, like the cover art or synopsis, doesn't blatantly show that they are actually sexist. So for like SAO and F/Z (I never watched F/Z, but I know it was popular when it was airing), they're pretty much your generic, mainstream, fantasy/supernatural animes (ie. not labled as ecchi or harem, or its function is not to be either of those, but ends up coming off as those genres) that a majority of anime watchers tend to watch. And that includes both females and males. Sorry if that sounds super confusing. |
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| Not that I necessarily want it added to the list, but I was wondering about people's thoughts on something in the series Kaiba. It unfortunately involves spoilers. I apologize if I have said anything silly here. It is a series I very much respect, but I have been trying to sort my feelings on that one scene. |
| Sarco, I watched the first two episodes of Kaiba, and... |
| I didn't interpret it as a fantasy (given how much of a scumbag Butter was I was inclined to think it had something to do with bad memories being back), but now that you say that I ought to watch that episode again. It was one of the more confusing episodes of the series. |
| Yeah I don't know if Kaiba is something I would add to the list. I haven't seen it but it's a weird enough title that it kinda gets put in it's own little realm, much like Perfect Blue which I wouldn't say is sexist but very very strange and too weird to put into any 'sexist' or 'not sexist' category, if that makes sense. |
| I wasn't necessarily saying we should add it. It's a show I love dearly, but I was unsure about that scene. I just wanted thoughts on it. It is a weird show but a fascinating one. I've really liked everything of Yuasa's that I've seen. |
lukanicolettaJan 23, 2014 11:14 PM
SarcotarascusN said: It is a weird show but a fascinating one. I've really liked everything of Yuasa's that I've seen. Pretty much how I feel about it. Really unique anime. If you like Yuasa, I suppose you're happy about that new anime of his - the adaptation of the manga called Ping Pong. I know I am quite intrigued. |
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| Hey, I didn't know that was being made. Thanks for telling me. That gives me something to look forward to. Thus far this season has been pretty disappointing for me. |
| I haven't even started a single anime from the winter season, that's how much I am excited about them. As for Ping Pong, it is supposed to air in spring, in noitaminA slot. This is where I go on a rant how noitaminA has been declining for years and how this anime may be what it needs. Anyway, spring looks quite good so far. Aside from Ping Pong, there are also JoJo and Mushishi. More than enough for me! |
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| The only shows that are airing right now that I'm actually enjoying are Space Dandy, Hoozuki No Reitetsu (go figure, the MAL fanboys are ripping on it), and Tonari no Seki-Kun. Nobunagun was okay, at least until the third episode turned into an extended joke about sexual harassment, and Wizard Barristers can be entertaining (even if Umetsu's stuff is decent at best), but the rest of it is just drivel. SHAFT made a stupid harem show and the guy who made Escaflowne made a boring, pompous show about Oda Nobunaga. I might extend the analogy you made about noitaminA to them..... I'm happy more Mushishi is airing (I need to see the OAV, since crunchyroll has it). As for Jojo, I still haven't seen the first season, so I should get around to that. |
| Space Dandy and Hoozuki no Reitetsu have been on my ptw list for a couple of months, so I'll definitely get around to watching them. I just want to try to catch up with some autumn shows before that. Those two are among the few shows I intend to watch from the winter season (the other two being Silver Spoon 2 and probably Sekai Seifuku). It is rather unusual for me to watch so few shows in a season, but I am not interested in any other, be it because of the weak season or because of ever so strict standards of mine. Uh-oh, going completely off-topic with this, so I shall stop now. |
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| That reminds me- I think I'm going to add Mars to the list. It's highly acclaimed and everyone loves it, but I was pretty disgusted when I read it- And I was in high school. Victim blaming and all that and the boyfriend breaks up with the girl because she wont stand up for herself, and then proceeds to sleep with other women immediately after. And this is never touched upon after they get back together. I was so pissed. |
| I've only read a couple volumes of Mars, so I can't say if I remember all those plot points to add anything in agreement. I think the only thing I remember is that I didn't like the main male character at all, so I ditched it pretty fast. So I'll trust your judgement on that one! |
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| Is anyone watching Hamatora the Animation? Because watching all the fanboys be super uncomfortable with the 5th episode is really making me laugh. |
| I watched the first episode and didn't like it. What happened? |
| I've been having fun with it so far, but I have observed that the female characters never have much to do, which has bothered me a bit. I haven't seen that episode yet...time to get around to it... |
| I haven't seen Hamatora past some episode 1 skimming since it didn't interest me, but I've seen people fuming about episode 5, and it mostly boiled down to screaming "yuck, yaoi" on the Internet. Mind you, I have no idea what that's about, but some reactions seem hilariously overblown. |
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| I've read some pretty scathing reviews about the first episode of Hamatora, so I didn't bother checking it out. I admit, though, the apparent homophobic meltdowns about episode 5 must've been glorious. lol |
| (unrelated) There's an uncomfortable trend of "perverted lesbians" that I've been noticing more and more lately. I feel like it's being used to let anime get away with showing harassment of women for laughs. It has nothing to do with LGBT women in real life, it's just like these characters are being written to let people get away with showing and indulging in this fetish. Examples I can think of are Mao from Mirai Nikki (who takes pictures of a girl without permission and clearly has a stalkerish obsession with her) and several characters in this season's Wizard Barristers (Yasoumi Umetsu being his usual perverted self). There's another minor character in "Magical Warfare" that does this also, and it was seeing it twice in the same day (I watched those episodes just now) that made me think of this. |
| @Sarco: That's an old trope -at one time in Western media and still persisting in anime- that homosexual or bisexual individuals are sexually rapacious or promiscuous, part of their "deviant" profile. It seems particularly true for bisexual characters. In anime they will sleep with everyone, lol. I just saw this in Psycho Pass too. On the one hand, it was interesting that one of the women enjoyed BDSM, but on the other hand, her partner was the bisexual character, Shion, and it wasn't clear whether they intended this to be part of Shion's deviant influence. |
| From what I've seen in anime, lesbian characters in general often seem to be used for fanservice purposes (yeah, I know, such a Sherlock I am), whether they're the object of faservice themselfves or "agents" of fanservice. Other times, "perverted lesbians" trope may be used for (lame) comedy. For the life of me, I can't remember who Mao from Mirai Nikki is though. Actually, I think I can't remember more than 4 names from whole Mirai Nikki, so nevermind. |
metamorphiusFeb 6, 2014 7:24 PM
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| Yeah, the jokes are usually pretty lame. It has felt like I've seen an increase in female-on-female sexual harassment in anime in recent years, but it's probably just that this is the first season where I've actually tried to keep up with most of the shows, instead of just picking through what people recommend. I guess I haven't seen enough older movies to be aware that the trope has been around a while (I mean, I'm aware that homosexuality has long been played for laughs and shoved into a handful of stereotypes, but I didn't know it necessarily happened in that fashion) Mao was the sailor-hat-wearing, purple-haired girl. She's one of Yuki's new "friends" later in the series, and she doesn't really do much besides take unwanted pictures of Hinata and giggle mischievously. She doesn't really get any scenes of her own, which is part of it, I think. |
SarcotarascusN said: Yeah, the jokes are usually pretty lame. It has felt like I've seen an increase in female-on-female sexual harassment in anime in recent years, but it's probably just that this is the first season where I've actually tried to keep up with most of the shows, instead of just picking through what people recommend. I guess I haven't seen enough older movies to be aware that the trope has been around a while (I mean, I'm aware that homosexuality has long been played for laughs and shoved into a handful of stereotypes, but I didn't know it necessarily happened in that fashion) Mao was the sailor-hat-wearing, purple-haired girl. She's one of Yuki's new "friends" later in the series, and she doesn't really do much besides take unwanted pictures of Hinata and giggle mischievously. She doesn't really get any scenes of her own, which is part of it, I think. Ohh I remember her. There was also that girl in Code Geass who was in love with Euphemia and there was a scene with her masterbating to her which was creepy and unnecessary. There was also a psychotic yandere in Baka and Test, or the President in Mai Hime. |
Amberleh said: There was also that girl in Code Geass who was in love with Euphemia and there was a scene with her masterbating to her which was creepy and unnecessary. Right...Nina. I'd forgotten about that scene (mercifully) until now. She's one of my least favorite characters. I kind of felt like the show was trying to make her "cute" in order to let us forget how racist she was. It was weird. |
| Oh, I vaguely remember Mao now. I must have forgotten her since she was hardly important. Amberleh said: the President in Mai Hime. ShizNat needs to die in a fire! I remember when I watched Mai Hime I felt like I was the only one not crazy over shipping them. I honestly found Shizuru's behaviour creepy and was kinda pissed that the anime decided to make it A-OK in the end. I guess since she's female that makes it fine >.> |
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