Vampire Knight Chapter 89 Discussion

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Jan 2013

This is the ending I want...

Zero remembers after catching Yuuki and Kaname together, and is disgusted by her forever. After saying all her feels and erasing his memory ( which at this point are probably his ONLY happy thoughts left) and then running off with him. Zero now hates Yuuki too and no longer has to tolerate Kaname for her sake. He hunts them, kills them both, and lives happily ever after

Feb 5, 2013 11:26 AM

#155

Yozora_Hikari

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Feb 2013

278

viciousgirl said:
This is the ending I want...

Zero remembers after catching Yuuki and Kaname together, and is disgusted by her forever. After saying all her feels and erasing his memory ( which at this point are probably his ONLY happy thoughts left) and then running off with him. Zero now hates Yuuki too and no longer has to tolerate Kaname for her sake. He hunts them, kills them both, and lives happily ever after

sounds... Epic.. -__-

but i don't think he will be happy about killing Yuki though, Kaname on the other hand, he will have the pleasure about killing Kaname indeed.. x3

Feb 5, 2013 2:39 PM

#156

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Jan 2013

Yozora_Hikari said:

sounds... Epic.. -__-

but i don't think he will be happy about killing Yuki though, Kaname on the other hand, he will have the pleasure about killing Kaname indeed.. x3

Well it would make me happy!!!

Feb 6, 2013 12:19 AM

#157

falcone90

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Feb 2013

this story making me suffer!!! i just hope Yuuki will end up with Kaname..really, Zero deserve much better...

Feb 6, 2013 4:33 PM

#158

Orulyon

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Jun 2008

2206

Edefrem said:

Aisein said:

I read this thread too many times...

I would love a KaZe ending. But I wouldnt kill Yuuki. In my ending, she would live for eternity and see how its like to be left alone and see the guys you love together saying:
"We love you Yuuki, but our hearts are divided. I guess you know how its like. But we made our choice".
Yes, she totally deserves that Fuck

oh?
What are you talking about? Kaname sacrificed Zero´s family to protect Yuuki, because she is a very deserving and hard working mature person, because she is special and deserved to live more than an entire family;D Because Kaname couldn't just leave two little kids alone ever since he first saw Zero & Ichiru for the first time and made up a plan in 5 seconds. No, he couldn't just leave the children alone. Because he wants to save the humanity but the very first thing he does is to help to screw up a human family^.^

And ofc Kaname is completely innocent because according to this chapter he hints that he did not know that Zero was going to fall in love with Yuuki. Nop. Because you bring an orphan to live with a girl with the same age under the same roof to form an attachment to protect her, but you never think that since they´re not blood related, the orphan might develop feelings for her. Ofc not. Not even because the boy is utterly traumatized for having lost all his family and has no one to cling but her and he is clearly heterosexual,but yeah, he never thought Zero would come to love her. He would just protect her as a little sis and then deliver her in the church to Kaname in their wedding day.

Seriously Kaname?!!! I dont want to blame you but...seriously?

Anyway my hate is not against Kaname. Its Yuuki. She is the reason for everything after all. Without her Kaname would be a good guy and Zero would be a happy guy.

ワンダーランド花 ♥

Feb 11, 2013 5:29 PM

#159

artsigirl

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Feb 2013

This chapter was awful. Truly heinous. I'm still trying to stop my eyes bleeding.

But if we want to be serious about it, this manga should have ended ten volumes ago. I liked it much better when it was a sweet and tragic love story about a human girl trying to save her friend from a dreadful fate. Then Shizuka and Rido came in and the whole thing just went to hell.

Yuuki was so likeable in the first volumes. After the Rido thing she wasn't anymore. She let a cruel and manipulative man ("Let me show you," not "you decide for your own damn self") walk all over her. She was a weak-willed, pathetic doormat, a sad echo of what was once a strong heroine, a stand-in for everything women's rights is against. This chapter only underscored that, eight times in red magic marker. Seriously, she's starting to remind me of Bella. *gag*

But I did love the last pages where Zero looked disturbed. The woman he's destined to be with has just given it up to a monster. Poor baby, I still love him. :(

Just makes me all the more glad I lost it to the most wonderful human being I've ever known, not the pathetic loser who came before him.

Feb 12, 2013 2:42 PM

#160

Air-Dragon

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May 2010

1876

chikuita0621 said:

Started as great, became average, and gone to bad. I didn't began to hate Yuuki in the first chapters of the manga but she became the worst female protagonist for me in a manga. I really want to drop the manga a long time ago if not for Zero. I did started at ZeKi fanatic and still hoping that they could still be together until the end but ~ that chapter where Yuki erased Zero's memories just shatter my last hope for them. Yuuki gave in so fast with Kaname so let them die together. But we knew Zero will be sad. We knew his memories of Yuuki will return and how he loved a pureblood vampire. Damn it. Oh well. Looking forward for the ending.

I 100% agree with my friend. I hope zero cam be more awesome now and not weighed down.

Feb 15, 2013 10:07 AM

#161

Hannah_Ana

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Dec 2008

4878

I've had it with Yuuki and Kaname! I hope Zero kills them both! Especially Yuuki, after what she did to him. I'm tired of watching Zero get toyed with and pissed on.

If Zero doesn't kill them, then let them both leap into the furnace and burn together for all eternity.

Feb 22, 2013 11:34 AM

#162

bittersweetlove

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Jul 2009

4805

Yes, I actually feel that way too Villetta_Nu, they both need to die!
Raws for new chapters are out, it's disturbing to see Kaname holding Yuuki in front of Zero like she is a trophy or something.
I want Zero to be happy in the end, he really deserves it, the only reason why I will read it it's waiting for Kaname's dead and Zero's happiness...

Feb 22, 2013 3:41 PM

#163

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Jan 2013

bittersweetlove said:
Yes, I actually feel that way too Villetta_Nu, they both need to die!
Raws for new chapters are out, it's disturbing to see Kaname holding Yuuki in front of Zero like she is a trophy or something.
I want Zero to be happy in the end, he really deserves it, the only reason why I will read it it's waiting for Kaname's dead and Zero's happiness...

It seems that it is all very real now. Yuuki did indeed throw herself onto Kaname ... I am reading this manga to finish it, but I am hoping that sometime soon, Yuuki dies ... and better yet to a silver bullet from the gun of Zero ... in front of Kaname just as he enters the furnace and cannot do anything about it ... damn I'm in a spiteful mood now ...

Feb 23, 2013 10:32 PM

#164

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Jan 2013

yunaleia said:

It seems that it is all very real now. Yuuki did indeed throw herself onto Kaname ... I am reading this manga to finish it, but I am hoping that sometime soon, Yuuki dies ... and better yet to a silver bullet from the gun of Zero ... in front of Kaname just as he enters the furnace and cannot do anything about it ... damn I'm in a spiteful mood now ...

No worries, have you read my post, I'm livid! I would love that ending!

Feb 27, 2013 9:43 AM

#165

kapwned

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Jan 2011

I thought the chapter was okay compared to what the series has been recently. I'm guessing we're at the end of this arc or near the end... and I must say they've been really weak in the story for quite some time. This chapter was probably the most interesting for awhile. The last chapter to interest me was the one where they revealed Kaname's past. I have such a love/hate relationship with this series. I LOVED it in the beginning, but lately it's been driving me insane. I hope it picks up.

The chapters as of late have been rather melodramatic, and it feels like NOTHING HAPPENS.

I'll admit, the sex scene kind of surprised me. It was only 2 frames but jeez. Didn't think they'd ever get around to doing that.

And I don't think they're going to kill Yuuki lol. If anything, they're going to kill Kaname. But I wouldn't mind seeing a Mary Sue getting killed off... at this point that is all Yuuki is. I know a lot of people don't like to compare VK to Twilight, but she is indeed comparable to Kristen Stewart in the Twilight films. All of this chaos in the series, and she decides to pull Artemis out at the stupidest times. "Oh hey, this looks like a time when it'd be absolutely silly to get violent. I'll pull out artemis to validate my tenacity as a female character!"

Feb 27, 2013 10:16 AM

#166

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Mar 2011

kapwned said:
I thought the chapter was okay compared to what the series has been recently. I'm guessing we're at the end of this arc or near the end... and I must say they've been really weak in the story for quite some time. This chapter was probably the most interesting for awhile. The last chapter to interest me was the one where they revealed Kaname's past. I have such a love/hate relationship with this series. I LOVED it in the beginning, but lately it's been driving me insane. I hope it picks up.

The chapters as of late have been rather melodramatic, and it feels like NOTHING HAPPENS.

I'll admit, the sex scene kind of surprised me. It was only 2 frames but jeez. Didn't think they'd ever get around to doing that.

And I don't think they're going to kill Yuuki lol. If anything, they're going to kill Kaname. But I wouldn't mind seeing a Mary Sue getting killed off... at this point that is all Yuuki is. I know a lot of people don't like to compare VK to Twilight, but she is indeed comparable to Kristen Stewart in the Twilight films. All of this chaos in the series, and she decides to pull Artemis out at the stupidest times. "Oh hey, this looks like a time when it'd be absolutely silly to get violent. I'll pull out artemis to validate my tenacity as a female character!"

I wonder if people who throw out the term "mary sue" in regards to Yuuki even understand the term and what a mary sue really is. By the fact that you say Kristen Stewart (who is an ACTOR not a character) instead of Bella and use "All of this chaos in the series, and she decides to pull Artemis out at the stupidest times. " shows that you clearly do not.

Here's a short in a, nut-shell, manifesto of why Yuuki is NOT a mary sue:

A mary sue's personality (only personality because looking at any other traits is just ridiculous when trying to apply it to Yuuki) traits:

1. All characters are drawn to her and prefer her company over everyone else

2. If a character criticizes the sue the author is only doing it to make the sue "look bad" to degrade the sueness

3. All the sue's ideas are brilliant and when she says something, even something completely obvious everyone is astounded.

4. Highly persuasive, regardless of the actual content of their conversations. Everyone finds her opinions are just better than their own

5. Is either brave and cheerful (despite her past), or unnecessarily mopey and depressed.

6. Incorruptible. In fact, unaware of the possibility of temptation.

7. Her "major flaws" will be stubbornness and a bad temper. These will only ever help her, never hurt her — because she's always right, so whatever cause she dedicates herself to with such stubbornness will be a good cause, and whoever she loses her temper with will deserve it.

Yuuki in comparison:

1. While it is true in a sense it is excusable in the story as this is an effect of all purebloods as Takuma notes when he is reflecting on his feelings for Sara. Normal vampires are pulled to them like moths to a flame or magnets, it is not exclusive to Yuuki's character. And as is seen in the manga there are many vampires that, while they are cordial to her, they don't exactly fly to her for advice i.e.: Ruka, Kain, Shiki, Rima.

2. Hino occasionally uses Yuuki's faults as comical points (poking fun at her) in the story such as her stupidity in school work and when Aido notes that she completely lacks charisma.

3. No they aren't, most of the characters at some point in the story complain about the naivety of Yuuki's decisions (though I don't think her being naive makes her a bad character). For example in this chapter Kaito called Yuuki manipulative like a true pureblood for erasing Zero's memories, and Kaname was upset when he heard.

4. Yuuki lacks charisma as Aido pointed out when she told the vampires of the night class that they should at least count on her as an errand girl.

5. True in the beginning but justified by the fact that she didn't REMEMBER her past, after remembering she becomes less cheerful but isn't mopey or depressed.

6. Yuuki almost bit Zero on one occasion despite not wanting to take blood from him, and on another before it was revealed that she is actually a vampire she almost gave into having Kaname bite her, in fact he was the one that stopped as she made no effort to stop him.

7. While Yuuki is stubborn it doesn't always help her, and has hurt her at times such as her stubbornness in not baring her fangs after returning to being a vampire (this made it difficult for her to obtain blood) and her stubbornness in learning about her past which ultimately led to her vampire side awakening and put her in danger when it would have been better and more peaceful for her to remain as a human.

Oh and I forgot to add my source:

Mary Sue Traits

Narutowolf77Feb 27, 2013 10:42 AM

Feb 27, 2013 12:52 PM

#167

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Mar 2011

HayasakaShion said:
Okay. WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED!?!?

I've read the other replies, and a lot of people are confused about the plot, rightly so. Count me in.

What I HATED the most about this chapter was predictably Yuki's inconsistent ho behavior. How can she kiss Zero and tell him sweet nothings only to completely erase herself from Zero's memories? She doesn't have the right to do that. I'm sorry to say but I have to agree with Kaito here, what she has done is the epitome of pureblood arrogance. I can't believe she still has a heart. She KNOWS Zero loves her, how can she just trample on him like this? Isn't he worth anything to her?

Honestly, I liked Yuki in the beginning of the background, but around forty to fifty chapters into the manga I realized she was practically useless ^^" All she does is bat an eyelid and voila, hot bishounen lead here to save the day!

She should state clearly what she feels and save everyone this unnecessary trouble.

It wasn't her and Zero that were kissing because they were wearing masks which hides their identity, which is why when she tells Zero that she thought he couldn't dance he acts like he doesn't know what she's talking about and why he acted as though they had just met at the masquerade ball. And I don't remember her ever telling him "sweet nothings", her confession of loving him was completely internal monologue and in chapter 88 it was more of a sad speculation on if they had met in another life if they could have been together (which Zero says is nonsense because if they had both been human they never would have met in the first place). If anything her behavior is consistent with her caring about him because as stated in the beginning of this chapter "Your thirst will be reduced from now on...because the girl that was causing your starvation has disappeared from your heart ...", part of it was to prevent him from falling to level E as his starvation was close to making him do that (as some people are confused and ask "Won't he still fall to level E because he didn't drink Shizuka's blood" I should point out that he did drink Shizuka's blood via Kaname and Ichiru just to prevent any unnecessary confusion) and it was also because she plans to die for Kaname's sake of course that also ties back to his starvation because if she dies he will just go on starving due to his memory of her until he falls to level E.

Yes this was pureblood arrogance but one would question Hino's characterization of Yuuki if she didn't give Yuuki some attributes of a pureblood considering she IS a pureblood. Although I find it funny that some people (not you) say that manga with vampires that act like the real cruel vampires are better than this and then they criticize Yuuki when she does act like a cruel pureblood.

That's a contradiction!

I disagree about Yuuki being useless but I suppose that's more a matter of perspective and opinion than anything else, but you should at least remember that even if Yuuki does seem useless at least she TRIES and fails unlike some shoujo females who give up without even trying.

Feb 27, 2013 1:11 PM

#168

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Jan 2013

Although that is an admirable trait, is rape realy something one should try and succeed at? Mental or not, helping or not, if someone says no, you stop.

What I want to know, is whether Yuuki really had the mental fortitude to fully remove herself from Zeros memory, otherwise, why would he start having deja vu fits? One would think a pureblood using their powers to their fullest could do this easily.

Feb 27, 2013 1:22 PM

#169

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Jan 2013

Narutowolf77 said:

And I don't remember her ever telling him "sweet nothings", her confession of loving him was completely internal monologue and in chapter 88 it was more of a sad speculation on if they had met in another life if they could have been together (which Zero says is nonsense because if they had both been human they never would have met in the first place). If anything her behavior is consistent with her caring about him because as stated in the beginning of this chapter "Your thirst will be reduced from now on...because the girl that was causing your starvation has disappeared from your heart ...", part of it was to prevent him from falling to level E as his starvation was close to making him do that (as some people are confused and ask "Won't he still fall to level E because he didn't drink Shizuka's blood" I should point out that he did drink Shizuka's blood via Kaname and Ichiru just to prevent any unnecessary confusion) and it was also because she plans to die for Kaname's sake of course that also ties back to his starvation because if she dies he will just go on starving due to his memory of her until he falls to level E.

I'm still not seeing Yuuki's character no falling to a new low with that though. She took away his memories of her which are the only good things he has in his life, seeing Kaname is a d**che! Who she sleeps with right after! If your suggesting she did him a favor .. To me anyway ..with the other details that followed

Feb 27, 2013 1:53 PM

#170

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Mar 2011

viciousgirl said:

I'm still not seeing Yuuki's character no falling to a new low with that though. She took away his memories of her which are the only good things he has in his life, seeing Kaname is a d**che! Who she sleeps with right after! If your suggesting she did him a favor .. To me anyway ..with the other details that followed.

They may be the only good things he has in his life but if she hadn't taken his memories this scenario would have happened:

Yuuki is the only one that can quench Zero's thirst, not having her blood basically starves him and will eventually make him fall to level E. Yuuki dies by using her life to turn Kaname human in order to stop him (I know a lot of people criticized her for suddenly deciding to do this but it would have been REALLY OoC for her to have killed him considering how clear it's been made that she loves him and she even tells Takuma that she ultimately trusts him). Zero is left without Yuuki's blood because she is no longer alive Zero falls to level E. Zero dies. End of story.

And I still don't get how you can criticize Kaname after all this, he's gone through enough alright? He thinks his only reason for existing is to sacrifice himself for someone else. He has suffered just as much as Zero, even Yuuki said that the two of them are the same. And though his actions don't always make sense he doesn't deserve all the hate and criticism he receives.

As for her sleeping with him right after erasing Zero's memories saying it like that makes it sound a lot worse than it is. She didn't run to him IMMEDIATELY nor did she sleep with him immediately (take into consideration the time she probably spent clinging to him and crying after finding out the truth about him, plus the time it probably took them to travel to the Kuran manor, plus the time they spent talking afterwards plus there's also the time in which Zero was unconscious, the time it took for Kaien and her to travel to where Kaname was and the actual time spent during the Kaien-Yuuki-Kaname interaction - all in all there is probably more than several hours worth of time that went by from the time Yuuki erased Zero's memories until the time when she slept with Kaname, it only appeared to happen right after because much of that time was spent off screen) nor did she go to him just to sleep with him, Yuuki has NEVER been that shallow. And remember that while Yuuki has stated she loves Zero in chapter 87 she also has been saying for 88 chapters prior to 89 that she loves Kaname and that she desires him. Just like BleachOD said on her tumblr:

Let’s just deny the existence of 88 chapters preceding 89 where Yuuki affirms she loves Kaname over and over. So we’ll just pretend that “87” was the very first chapter of VK.

Feb 27, 2013 2:20 PM

#171

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Jan 2013

So you're condoning mental rape as a means to make Yuuki seem like an angel in disguise? UGH!

Feb 27, 2013 4:24 PM

#172

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Jan 2013

Well, I still think Zero should of had his own say it that! You can argue that he wouldn't want that to happen, So yuuki had to force it, but that only proves how sincere and loyal the character is and then Hino has her run off and sleep with the person he hates! If I'm mad at anyone Its Hino!!

..As far as Kaname, I blame him for everything bad that has happened, cause he made it happen! He remind me of Akito Sohma from fruits basket. I was born to die, so I'll have a big pity patry and make everyone else's lives hell.. O.o

I don't blame Kaname for them sleeping together, I just don't like Yuuki's lack of respect, and to me timing is everything! Thats all I was saying with that

viciousgirlFeb 27, 2013 4:32 PM

Feb 27, 2013 5:19 PM

#173

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Mar 2011

viciousgirl said:
Well, I still think Zero should of had his own say it that! You can argue that he wouldn't want that to happen, So yuuki had to force it, but that only proves how sincere and loyal the character is and then Hino has her run off and sleep with the person he hates! If I'm mad at anyone Its Hino!!

I do get how you think Zero should have had his own say in it :), and like you said he would have wanted to remember. I think in this case this quote applies:

"You gave Him what he asked for. I gave Him what He needed. " - Michael from "Legion"

If Zero had been allowed to have his say then he would have asked to keep his memories but that wasn't what he needed. What he needed was to forget Yuuki and that he ever loved her because his love was slowly killing her...

To be honest the whole scene almost looks like a Zeki scene from Yuuki's perspective because she cares about him so much that she is willing to erase her existence and her love for her even if it means he hates her and even if it means causing both of them pain. The funny thing about me noticing this? I ship YuMe hardcore ^.^"

viciousgirl said:
..As far as Kaname, I blame him for everything bad that has happened, cause he made it happen! He remind me of Akito Sohma from fruits basket. I was born to die, so I'll have a big pity patry and make everyone else's lives hell.. O.o

But it was Rido that attacked the academy back in the second arc of the manga, not Kaname and Kaname didn't influence Rido to do so. And I think he can only be partially blamed for Shizuka killing Zero's family, though even I don't think he's completely blameless in this case but it's more like guilt by association (not even conspiring because he didn't necessarily conspire with Shizuka he just released her and hoped she would do what he wanted). It seems that a lot of people when they learned Kaname released Shizuka from her prison completely forgot that Shizuka is a fully grown vampire, a PUREBLOOD vampire for that matter, with the physical and mental agency to liver her own life and make her own choices. Even though Kaname released her she is still the one that should ultimately be blamed just like the actual murderer in a murder case is ultimately the one who is responsible even if there are other parties involved.

Mmm I've never thought that Kaname is like Akito Sohma, he doesn't enjoy making people's lives miserable he only does it because he thinks it's whats best for them. He reminds me more of Itachi from Naruto he does bad things and makes people suffer but most of it is a facade and the part that isn't he only does because he believes it is what's best for everyone such as killing the corrupt vampire council, manipulating Zero into killing Rido and protecting Yuuki, pretending to kill Aido's father to push away Yuuki and Aido the people who are closest to him, and telling Ruka that they are through after she protects Zero, and now his current plan to throw his heart into the furnace to create weapons for the humans.

viciousgirl said:
I don't blame Kaname for them sleeping together, I just don't like Yuuki's lack of respect, and to me timing is everything! Thats all I was saying with that

Oh okay, at least you don't blame Kaname for that ^.^
To be honest it's almost like Hino-sensei is to blame for making it appear as though Yuuki just erased Zero's memories and then ran off to sleep with Kaname rather than blaming it on the characters but I'm loathe to blame Hino as well because it could be her editor or the publisher's fault for rushing her and there's only so much you can do with 40 pages.

Feb 27, 2013 5:56 PM

#174

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Jan 2013

Let's just back up a bit here. You are saying that even though Zero "should" have had a choice, of his own free will, you think that Yuuki raping his mind was "better" for him ... I'm officially out of words to describe how sick that logic is.

Your quote really doesn't change the fact that if Zero says no, then Yuuki should have stopped. If Yuuki was any other pureblood, they would have had a bullet in their back already. Zeros hands were mentally tied, how could he do anything to the very woman he loves who is also trying to wipe his mind of everything to do with her. There is but one word to describe this, betrayal. And being betrayed by the woman you love most ... she may as well have killed him and put him completely out of his misery ...

Feb 27, 2013 6:13 PM

#175

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Mar 2011

yunaleia said:
Let's just back up a bit here. You are saying that even though Zero "should" have had a choice, of his own free will, you think that Yuuki raping his mind was "better" for him ... I'm officially out of words to describe how sick that logic is.

Your quote really doesn't change the fact that if Zero says no, then Yuuki should have stopped. If Yuuki was any other pureblood, they would have had a bullet in their back already. Zeros hands were mentally tied, how could he do anything to the very woman he loves who is also trying to wipe his mind of everything to do with her. There is but one word to describe this, betrayal. And being betrayed by the woman you love most ... she may as well have killed him and put him completely out of his misery ...

Yes because if she hadn't erased Zero's memories he would have fallen to level E and died, his love for her was causing him to starve and thus slowly killing him, ultimately Yuuki made the decision to remove herself from Zero's memory hurting BOTH of them in the process because she cares about him.

I don't know how anyone can like Zero and NOT think that Yuuki erasing his memory was ultimately the best decision given the circumstances. WOULD YOU RATHER HE HAVE FALLEN TO A MINDLESS MONSTER AND DIED!!!??? BAKAS!!

I feel like I care more about Zero's well being than half of his fans and I don't even like him!!!

Feb 27, 2013 9:05 PM

#176

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Jan 2013

...OK so If I went to your house and stole your video games, cause in my opinion they lead to violence that would be OK? Your microwave... Cause in my opinion your not cooking healthy food in it, I'm giving in my logic what I think you need... No its not! I am just justifying thief based on my opinions on how others should live. What she did is no different!

viciousgirlFeb 28, 2013 1:50 AM

Feb 27, 2013 9:08 PM

#177

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Jan 2013

Narutowolf77 said:

I have no words!!

Feb 27, 2013 11:19 PM

#178

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Mar 2011

viciousgirl said:

I have no words!!

Sorry that wasn't aimed at you I actually felt that we were having an okay discussion and that you were being cordial and taking my opinions into consideration. The one my snappish comment was aimed at was a certain person on here whose username begins with y and end in a and who has been aggravating me for a while.

Ugh and besides that I have just felt so emotionally and mentally stressed from all the hate on the Vampire Knight forum and it's not the hatred for the story or chapters that bothers me because I'm so used to it in the other manga forums I frequent (of course it helps that they have a LOT more positive comments than this one) but what bothers me is all the character hate and people hating on Hino-sensei. It's so bad that it makes me feel physically sick. I'm an optimist there's only so much pessimism I can take.

And I'm so close to just leaving this forum and disowning you all as fellow fans (despite the fact that I have had, what I feel, are some good debates with some of you and honestly have a grudging like and respect for you) not because I no longer like the series, I love the series, even if the ending is total shit I will still love it because I spent so much time on it and it was one of the first three shoujo anime/manga I ever read/watched. And I'm a stubborn ass Taurus I don't usually give up but because because this forum is such a mass of oppressive hatred I just... I just... I just can't take it anymore...

Feb 28, 2013 1:49 AM

#179

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Jan 2013

Aww Don't leave!! You can't agree with everyone, and I'm sure there are people who don't agree/understand my dislike for Hino right now, but that is how I feel! Can't change it, you have to just agree to disagree... The manga is almost over, stick around to the end...

Feb 28, 2013 2:27 AM

#180

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Jan 2013

Since you're such a fan of quotes:

"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"

On a related note, I'm the same as viciousgirl, my detest for certain characters in this manga is only shadowed for my detest of Hinos story telling of this manga. I'm afraid you will just need to accept that as fact. If this fact shakes your mental resolve IRL ... not a lot I can do about that.

viciousgirl said:
...OK so If I went to your house and stole your video games, cause in my opinion they lead to violence that would be OK? Your microwave... Cause in my opinion your not cooking healthy food in it, I'm giving in my logic what I think you need... No its not! I am just justifying thief based on my opinions on how others should live. What she did is no different!

Very eloquently put, better than I could anyway. Regardless of how Zero *may* turn out in the future, nobody except himself has the right to decide that. In the real world, people want to die because they want to end their own suffering and there will be people who will try to stop them, but that doesn't mean they have the right to.

As for fandom, I only look at characters at the base level. I like or indeed dislike(hate) characters as they are portrayed. My sympathy for Zero is mountainous given his circumstances, Yuuki is ... confused (I'll leave it at that) and Kanames selfishness is ... yea ... the whole reason Zero has my smypathy and Yuuki is confused ... that's just my feelings of them in a nut-shell. Any problems, please refer to above quote.

Feb 28, 2013 6:17 AM

#181

Kurokolist

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Feb 2013

114

How is this even an issue?

Yuuki has no right to interfere with Zero's mind. It doesn't matter what she was thinking. Kaito even pointed out how sleazy it was. Completely tyrannical. Doing something bad for good reasons (Which is subjective on her part) is still bad. Grey it up however you want, it is still black and white at the core.

Feb 28, 2013 9:32 AM

#182

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Mar 2011

viciousgirl said:
Aww Don't leave!! You can't agree with everyone, and I'm sure there are people who don't agree/understand my dislike for Hino right now, but that is how I feel! Can't change it, you have to just agree to disagree... The manga is almost over, stick around to the end...

It's not so much agreeing with everyone it's when they show blatant disrespect for my opinions and write them off without even giving them much thought or opinion, not taking the time to consider things from another perspective.

For instance when you said:

I could tell you were at least thinking about what I was saying even if you didn't agree, it didn't pain me to discuss with you. I had some pretty heated debates with ragingx but they never made me feel bad or upset because even though we never saw eye to eye (and we probably never will) they still took the time to read what I had to say and consider it and when both of you responded even though you disagreed you were polite in doing so, not criticizing me, or my opinion.

And it's not so much the hating of the characters that upsets me, I understand if you don't like a particular character, I myself dislike Zero, but what upsets me is seeing all the people who bash the characters saying that they hope they die, it's painful for me because I actually like and sympathize with them.

I can understand why Yuuki and Kaname do what is considered "bad" to keep the people they love alive maybe because I have lost someone and my greatest fear is having someone I care about die because death is a large and painful gap between you and your loved one that can't be bridged except by death itself. If I was in Kaname and Yuuki's shoes where it was a choice between tainting myself and doing what the majority consider bad or watching the person I care about suffer and die I would have done the same things they did tainting myself in blood and taking what isn't mine doing whatever it takes to keep that person alive because to me there is no greater gift than life.

So yeah I like them, I sympathize with them and it's painful to see people say that they want them to die because they hate them. I don't go around saying that about Zero even though I dislike him (I did at one point but that was over a year ago and it was mostly because I was still immature back then and I had so much rage built up that it leaked out, after I let it all out in what I consider was one epic discussion I stopped doing so). It also bothers me when I see people saying stuff like "I hope Kaname and Yuuki end up together now because they're both manipulative and only hurt Zero" as a true fan of the pairing who actually likes it because I think the characters make a cute couple, I find comments like this highly offensive and disrespectful. It would be like me saying (I don't actually believe this, it's just an example):

"I hope Zero and Yuuki end up together now because they're both cruel and cold-hearted and only hurt Kaname."

Anyways as you can see, I'm just tired of all of it. I'll stick around a little longer and see what happens but if I keep getting blatantly disrespectful replies like this:

yunaleia said:
Since you're such a fan of quotes:

"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"

Then trust me I'm gone.

Feb 28, 2013 10:38 AM

#183

Offline

Jan 2013

The one my snappish comment was aimed at was a certain person on here whose username begins with y and end in a and who has been aggravating me for a while.

Pardon me? Disrespect? Hold up guys! We have a hypocrit over here ...

I am definately passive aggressive, as you have well found out, but I draw the line at being called one thing when you yourself stepped on that particular land mine first.

You laid your opinions of the situation and I have attempted to understand and failed, heck its my fault if you want to say it that way, but you can't just go ahead and blame others for:

It's so bad that it makes me feel physically sick

Maybe for your own physical well being you would be better off not posting if that is how you feel ...

Feb 28, 2013 2:58 PM

#184

Offline

Mar 2011

yunaleia said:

Maybe for your own physical well being you would be better off not posting if that is how you feel ...

Another example of disrespect and me saying that you're aggravating me is NOT me disrespecting you. And passive aggressive? Please I have had discussions with people who are aggressive in asserting their opinions but they have never been so blatantly rude about doing so, let's think back to all that you have done:

yunaleia said:

"Privilege of reading them" ... when your works become as big as Seo, Hino, Kei et al, I'll bare that in mind ... until then, more conceitedness ...

You called me conceited.

yunaleia said:

Their fewer fans ... thought I'd flesh out that comment since not ALL fans are swayed by this *not caring about her readers feelings*. Not saying you're wrong, but that was a very stereotypical comment to make when you should know full well that her actions have displeased just as many.

Calling my comment stereotypical when it was about MY PERSONAL FEELINGS not something that is up to interpretation (by the way I would still like to know WHAT THE FUCK your reply had to do with my comment on why I like Hino)

yunaleia said:
It has everything to do with it ... you keep slipping sideways from what I am trying to say and stick your own spin on it ... it's impossible to even attempt to make conversation when you do this. Almost every post you reply with is in the same vain.

You accuse me of straying from a topic when I say that YOUR reply makes no sense to me and accuse me of twisting your words which I did not all I said was I didn't know what you were trying to prove, IT MADE NO FUCKING SENSE WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY!!

I just I can't do this anymore!!! Screw it I'm gone!! I'm leaving!!

Congratulations yunaleia your harassment just chased off one of the few people on this forum who actually offers a different view on the manga than what the Zeki fans and Zero fans see and who is actually willing to I don't know ACTUALLY debate with people using FACTS rather than personal biases.

To the people I actually liked and respected on this forum:

Goodbye Vesperlynd, you were one of the main benefactors in helping me stop hating Zero and move to more of a neutral to dislike stance where I can actually tolerate him. I thank you for that it helped to make me appreciate VK more.

Goodbye ragingx, we had a few debates that got pretty heated and will probably never see eye to eye but among the hardcore Zeki/Zero fans I'd have to say I liked debating with you the most because you challenged me to go back and look at the manga to find evidence in order to prove my points, and you challenged me to analyze, think, and contemplate. Our debates got my blood boiling in a going to battle sort of way that made me realize maybe I do have some Viking blood in me after all.

Goodbye Sabamiki, I only said one thing to you that I can remember but I did find you to be very down to earth when you commented on this chapter not blatantly criticizing the characters or the author

Goodbye Orulyon, I don't remember if I ever spoke to you, but I do know that I've never disliked you or your posts and I do recall that you said congratulations to the YuMe shipper after chapter 89 which was something I, as a YuMe fan, was very grateful to hear from a Zero fan it made me believe that we all can get along :)

Goodbye every YuMe shipper and Kaname fan that is still hanging around in this forum, I wish you the best of luck.

Goodbye to all the reasonable Zeki and Zero fans that I never met or discussed with but wish I had.

I will probably come back at the very end to give my thanks to Hino-sensei but for now...

Thank you very much!!

Sayonara~!

Mar 9, 2013 3:17 PM

#185

Offline

Jan 2013

Ok ...

So I bitch about Hino all the time, cause she totally trolled me as a zero fan, In my humble opinion. I watch this guy's reviews on youtube, One Piece and Naruto.. and I know that his rant is about Hiro and Fairy Tale, But this is what I'm saying about Hino in a nutshell. I wanted to share it, Cause I don't think a lot of you understand why I'm pi**ed! I also kinda want to have someone sub this Sh*T so I can tie Hino in a chair and force her to watch it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB_UJ1_ZQMw&feature=share&list=UU_LDTZuy4FWeVcsVU2kfoww

Mar 11, 2013 9:07 AM

#186

setsuchann

Offline

Mar 2013

i honestly want yuuki to end up with kaname .^^
zero is in the end better of with someone else not because i think that she doesnt "deserve" zero
she only enrased his memory beacause he was in pain

i agree that its a little bit weird she kissed him than enrased his memory and later ends up in bed with kaname
no matter how much i want yuuki and kaname to end up togheter i honestly think it will be zero in the end she didnt look very happy during the sex scene it was more like she realised that she was with the wrong person and regreted it and she got a little bit aggitated when kaname touched her in front of zero .

i really want yuuki to fall head over heels with kaname again and zero to fall for someone else but the way things are right now .. i think kaname is going to give up on yuuki ( romanticly) :(:(

Mar 20, 2013 5:06 PM

#187

dramaqueenily

Offline

Mar 2013

Vk love triangle is even worse than twilight triangle. thoughts about kaname and yukki's bed scene :disgusting. but now both of them get what they want so leave zero alone you selfish manipulating psychos.after this chapter i think zero will regain his memories very soon and yukki will give birth to kaname's child.

Mar 20, 2013 5:14 PM

#188

Edefrem

Offline

Mar 2011

8716

Narutowolf77 said:

I think anyone who's read this story needs one too...

Mar 28, 2013 1:25 PM

#189

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Mar 2013

Wow.I've never seen so much bitterness in one thread.XD
As a Yume shipper from the very first page of the manga,I have to say I don't see Yuuki as a slut.She never gave Zero hope.While she confessed to Kaname many times she never really confessed to Zero.Plus I think the Zeki kiss was a goodbye kiss cause she'd decided to erase his memories.Oh,and she did this because she cares for him.It was for his own good.So again I can't understand people complaining about it.If I was Yuuki and I knew Zero was suffering from wanting my blood I would have done the same.
Even though hino-sensei rushed a few things in chapter 90 and 91,as long as she answers all the questions she put in our head,I thing this manga is going to be as awesome as always.
I'll be a little disappointed if she doesn't gives us answers but maybe I'm over analyzing everything.For example the key that Kaname gave Yuuki.I was waiting for something very special but at least till now nothing happened.
seriously,This is all Kaname's fault.He is the one with so many secrets and mysteries and that's why I ADORE him.<3<3<3

2rsaMar 28, 2013 1:29 PM

Mar 28, 2013 2:53 PM

#190

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Jan 2013

2rsa said:
It was for his own good.So again I can't understand people complaining about it.If I was Yuuki and I knew Zero was suffering from wanting my blood I would have done the same.

Nobody gets to make decisions on behalf of someone else, nobody. Chapter 92 just staples that particular fact when Yuuki starts ranting about not wanting to be made human *that is her choice* using her words to the letter. Now where in your opinion does this leave the mind rape crime against Zero? He said no, don't do that, please ... it felt like begging ... Zero, begging. If even he was brought to this by somebody forcibly doing something without their consent, is Yuuki just a massive hypocrite or is Hino that shallow?

Balls in your court ...

Mar 28, 2013 10:58 PM

#191

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Mar 2013

yunaleia said:

2rsa said:
It was for his own good.So again I can't understand people complaining about it.If I was Yuuki and I knew Zero was suffering from wanting my blood I would have done the same.

Well that is called caring for someone.Love is selfish.What Juri did to Yuuki was selfish and what Yuuki did to Zero was also selfish.That is called loving and caring for someone.This doesn't justify all the bashing Yuuki is getting.

Mar 29, 2013 4:28 AM

#192

Offline

Jan 2013

Really? Thats your final answer? From what I've seen in the real world, when people look selfish, Its because the don't care at all, and that is far from love!

I concede, I'll bash Hino's writting instead. For making the worst heroine in the history of manga! She is arrogant, fickle, and a whole long list of other negative adjectives that I don't have time to type this morning.

I well bash Hino for not respecting my ship. As a zero fan I think to have to watch Yukki memory rape Zero was enough for one chapter, but no I get her in bed with Kaname as well. I don't care how much time this women has left to finish this series, I have been supporting her work for a long time and deserve better then that. I think people are bashing Yukki at this point cause it more kind then to bash a real flesh and blood person! I don't feel that way, That was bad for Hino to do, That not a way to let a fanbase got out! Its cruel!

viciousgirlMar 29, 2013 4:31 AM

Mar 29, 2013 7:12 AM

#193

Offline

Mar 2013

viciousgirl said:

Really? Thats your final answer? From what I've seen in the real world, when people look selfish, Its because the don't care at all, and that is far from love!

I concede, I'll bash Hino's writting instead. For making the worst heroine in the history of manga! She is arrogant, fickle, and a whole long list of other negative adjectives that I don't have time to type this morning.

I well bash Hino for not respecting my ship. As a zero fan I think to have to watch Yukki memory rape Zero was enough for one chapter, but no I get her in bed with Kaname as well. I don't care how much time this women has left to finish this series, I have been supporting her work for a long time and deserve better then that. I think people are bashing Yukki at this point cause it more kind then to bash a real flesh and blood person! I don't feel that way, That was bad for Hino to do, That not a way to let a fanbase got out! Its cruel!

viciousgirl said:

Really? Thats your final answer? From what I've seen in the real world, when people look selfish, Its because the don't care at all, and that is far from love!

Well,As a Yume shipper who also likes Zero alot,I don't see a problem but most of this bashing is coming from zekis.You said it yourself:"I well bash Hino for not respecting my ship."
Both ships can't work at the same time.But it's really unfair to bash hino,her story and her character just because your fav ship didn't workout.She always maintained balance between Kaname and Zero for their respective fans(and I kinda think she gave hints for the final couple,but again it's just my opinion).
I'm usually unlucky with shipping characters,well,I can't have it my way all the time.This is hino's story and from the very begining she said she knows how VK is going to end.I'm just saying all this doesn't justify all the bashing that Hino and specially Yuuki are getting.

Mar 30, 2013 8:35 PM

#194

Offline

Jan 2013

I didn't say she had to go with my preferred ship, But after all the milking, back and forth BS with both couples, I don't think thats how she should have ended it! IE: No respect! She milked it for WAY way way to long, The backlash is all on her! If she didn't milk it, she would have had more time to end the none cannon ship better, and in a way that wasn't disrespectful! Thanks for agreeing!

She always maintained balance between Kaname and Zero for their respective fans

viciousgirlMar 30, 2013 8:45 PM

Mar 31, 2013 12:21 AM

#195

Offline

Mar 2013

viciousgirl said:
I didn't say she had to go with my preferred ship, But after all the milking, back and forth BS with both couples, I don't think thats how she should have ended it! IE: No respect! She milked it for WAY way way to long, The backlash is all on her! If she didn't milk it, she would have had more time to end the none cannon ship better, and in a way that wasn't disrespectful! Thanks for agreeing!

She always maintained balance between Kaname and Zero for their respective fans

Well,you're right.This LT should have ended long ago,but there are some Zekis that still have hope.They might see this diffrently.And there is no grantee Yume is the canonship.So alot can happen.Maybe Hino has a good reason for all of this.^-^

Mar 31, 2013 1:17 AM

#196

Offline

Jan 2013

In this genre her sleeping with Kaname is the end of it, unless Hino is going to change the rules of shojo. My problem with Hino is how she handled all this. She shouldn't have played both sides for as long as she did, to have to rush to end one the way she did, its cruel! We all base are likes and dislikes on life experiences, moral, and values. I feel she toyed with Zero fan's intellect, emotions, and so on. With the end very near I look back and just see Kaname winning over and over again on some BS. She mixed it up with the couple shipping but to say she treated them equally is not true in my opinion...

If you read the the comments/replies in the VK threads on here, I think more people then not don't even understand the plot anymore, let alone able to spot a hint when/if it is given. Its like spilling a cup of mud on the windshield of a car when someone is going back and forth with the wipers on. Its just spreads making the whole windshield messy, and you can't see out of it anywhere. I spent to much time and money on this series for her to do that to me now. Its cruel, And..Yeah, I'm pissed!!

viciousgirlMar 31, 2013 4:13 PM

Apr 18, 2013 5:41 PM

#197

kapwned

Offline

Jan 2011

viciousgirl said:
In this genre her sleeping with Kaname is the end of it, unless Hino is going to change the rules of shojo. My problem with Hino is how she handled all this. She shouldn't have played both sides for as long as she did, to have to rush to end one the way she did, its cruel! We all base are likes and dislikes on life experiences, moral, and values. I feel she toyed with Zero fan's intellect, emotions, and so on. With the end very near I look back and just see Kaname winning over and over again on some BS. She mixed it up with the couple shipping but to say she treated them equally is not true in my opinion...

If you read the the comments/replies in the VK threads on here, I think more people then not don't even understand the plot anymore, let alone able to spot a hint when/if it is given. Its like spilling a cup of mud on the windshield of a car when someone is going back and forth with the wipers on. Its just spreads making the whole windshield messy, and you can't see out of it anywhere. I spent to much time and money on this series for her to do that to me now. Its cruel, And..Yeah, I'm pissed!!

I think it's because Hino was very poor in balancing the plot herself. She has not put as much emphasis on the actual conflict at hand--- the rise of vampires and the supposed risk of purebloods going batshit crazy on the world even though they've hardly done anything. With stories with conflicts besides romances, you need 2 climaxes--- relationship resolutions and conflict resolutions. The only climaxes were relationship climaxes, and anything an enemy was brought down it was so anti-climactic I almost missed it every time, which only shows that she's only interested in feeding the shipping fans to get the money out of their pockets. Not to mention the series has just gone on longer than it should have.

In the first part of the series it was about Yuuki wanting Kaname senpai to notice her, and he did. But fuck, Zero likes her too and she thinks she likes him too. Oh well, Kaname wins. Then it was about Yuuki wanting to learn the truth about Kaname and his past, and what not, and she did (did we forgot the supposed threat of Sara who did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING). Then it was about Yuuki wanting to kill Kaname and being convinced he was utterly evil (oh and the parent returned and killed Sara). Now it's going to be about Yuuki wanting to stop Kaname from going an-hero and becoming the new parent. IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT YUUKI CHASING KANAME.

Meanwhile, Zero is utterly in love with her and when its convenient for the character and the story, Yuuki is briefly in love with him too and has a moment of inner turmoil as she questions who she loves more. But it always goes back to Kaname. Zero could've been intended for more in the beginning, but as polls and statistics came in, he may have just turned into a buffer, filler, or back up.

In Japan, where it matters most, Kaname is the more popular male character, not Zero. She is likely going to feed the Japanese fans before the oversea fans.

Apr 21, 2013 11:50 AM

#198