I don't feel like spoiler tagging half my post, so R2 spoilers below
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Firefox265 said:
I'm sorry but when somebody watches others, in the same military, murder thousands of innocent men, women, and children I think that makes them just as bad... OH BUT he doesn't join in because it will "compromise his integrity" so that makes it all right that he does nothing. If anyone is misguided it is him.
I agree that he is misguided, however Suzaku basically believes two things:
1. Nothing can stand up to Brittania, so therefore once Brittania wins, the fighting stops
2. He can change Brittania from the inside.
Also, please they are both going about saving Japan wrong. Hell thats the whole point they are two extremes of each other. One is the naive fool who foolishly believes he can enact change in something that a) has been like that for hundreds of years, b) its people's majority don' care or rather in fact prefer it the way it is, and c) he IS one of the people that he is trying to save so nobody will take him seriously (he would have to be a noble at least). Granted now he is being taken a little and I stress little seriously but only because of the Zero stuff (irony much?).
I agree with this to some degree, but it should be noted that Suzaku has made progress going down his path, whereas Lelouch lost and just made things worse for Japan. Now Lelouch might win this time around - but we haven't gotten to that point yet.
So out of the two I feel more for Lulu since at least he doesn't stand by and watch atrocities happen. I agree he is a little impatient i and is heading down the path of the tragic hero but I don't think he is misguided. I think he is perfectly justified in wanting to take down Britannia (even if he is only really doing it to get back at his father). They are similar to the Nazis, just without the killing (well... they have to qualm of killing but they don't do it for "no" reason). De-humanizing their conquered by destroying their culture, history, pride, and even their names... numbers!? who wouldn't be pissed?
Lelouch doesn't care about anything but his revenge and his sister (and I guess to a much lesser degree a few of his friends). Lelouch is simply using Japan to oppose Brittania, not because of their evil ways, but because he wants revenge for what happened to his mother and sister. That, and he wants a 'better world for Nunally,' but Nunally's life at the school was probably as good as could be in her condition.
Euphie killing the Elevens worked out perfectly for Zero. There's no reason to question that it wasn't Lelouch's plan from the start. Even if Lelouch did try to explain it - who would actually believe it?
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Seazn said:
He's self centred, wants to 'liberate' Japan but at the same time, he helps Britannia capture other areas. Lelouch plans to free the WORLD of Britainnia which is much greater and not self centred since not only will Nunnally live in peace but also the world.
Lelouch is probably alot more self centered than Suzaku is actually. Suzaku is conquering other areas because once Brittania wins - the war ends. He admits that Brittania is twisted, and thus he hopes to change it from the inside. Now this may be a naive view, but it's not a selfish one.
Lelouch on the other hand is out for revenge. He cares about himself and his sister above all else. He's simply using Japan as a tool to get what he wants. Once Nunally was in danger he immediatly abandoned the Black Knights in favor of Nunally, even though he could have set up a plan for Knights to follow - he instead just left them to crumble.
Using Nunnally to get to Lelouch even though he said he would 'take care' of Nunnally was damn low, even if Lelouch done some low things like tricking Rolo, the way Suzaku done it was just that bit lower.
I agree using Nunally was low, however only because if Lelouch chooses to pretend not to remember her it will cause her a great deal of pain. But at the same time it's not like Nunally is in any immediate danger.
However Lelouch isn't beyond low tactics himself. In season one he sacrificed the JLF for his own gain. And as you have mentioned he's using Rollo - however I disagree what Lelouch is doing with Rollo is any worse than what Suzaku is doing with Nunally.
Even if he does become 'Knight of One', when he chooses an Area for himself, that area is still under Britainnian rule so nothing really changes except probably a few name changes and conditions. Racism will still continue and Britainnians will probably continue to dominate.
Suzaku believes Brittanian rule is inevitable, he simply hopes to do the best he can with Brittania in charge. I do agree however that he's naive when it comes to his hopes on changing the whole system from the inside.
Seeing how everything in CG is Suzaku's fault, (the president's death, failed battle plans etc.) he deserves to be hated. That's all I can say.
Suzaku did kill the president, but Japan was falling either way. He also did fight against the Black Knights, but then again he chose his path as a soldier of Brittania, disobeying orders would be seen as desertion. And the final battle at the end of season one was lost largerly in part due to Lelouch leaving.
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