Which do you prefer?
Only subs - original audio is best.
45.9%
1,121
Mostly subbed, some dubbed.
29.7%
725
Only dubbed - I like it in my native language.
2.3%
57
Mostly dubbed, some subbed.
8.0%
195
Both subbed and dubbed equally.
11.5%
280
Raw.
2.6%
64
2,442 votes
kuyukly said: The interesting thing about it is that we all know that nobody's gonna change their mind, but it gives us something to do anyway, you know? The arguments and insults will bounce back and forth as long as Japan keeps releasing anime, and the other countries keeps dubbing it ^^ I haven't read the entire thread, so excuse me if this has come up, but the main gripe seems to be with English dubbing. How do other languages fair in comparison? |
| Well german dubs suck. Like all of them. Well, GitS was "watchable" and so was Cowboy Bebop, but dubs in my mothertongue (german) just dont appeal to me at all, dunno exactly why. Maybe that is why i enjoy english dubs in quite a few cases, because it is not my mothertongue. And you may believe me, from a third perspective, english just sounds "cooler" than japanese, although I love the japanese language too, but in another way. In the end I mostly don't really care if I watch it subbed or dubbed, some series I even watch both ways. I just don't understand how big a deal it seems to be for some people that there are people who watch animes dubbed :P Well, now go on and hate me because I enjoy some dubs ^^ |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| i like subs more than dubs... of course the original voice is the best, that's why i don't quite like it if the dubbed version doesn't fit for the characters..it ruins the enjoyment in an anime~ but that is , only when the english voices doesn't fit for the characters....i still watch dubbed versions anyway xD |
Do you know where hell is? Inside your head.  Put your wishes into the memories you do not want to forget. |
Higashi_no_Kaze said: Well german dubs suck. Like all of them. Well, GitS was "watchable" and so was Cowboy Bebop, but dubs in my mothertongue (german) just dont appeal to me at all, dunno exactly why. Maybe that is why i enjoy english dubs in quite a few cases, because it is not my mothertongue. And you may believe me, from a third perspective, english just sounds "cooler" than japanese, although I love the japanese language too, but in another way. In the end I mostly don't really care if I watch it subbed or dubbed, some series I even watch both ways. I just don't understand how big a deal it seems to be for some people that there are people who watch animes dubbed :P I heard Death Note in German, and I wasn't too impressed. Actually, I saw the same scene on Youtube, with about eight different dubs of the same line of dialogue, such as Korean, Russian, Italian, French, German, etc. French Light sounded dirty - not even sexy-dirty, just pedo-dirty ;) I think my favourite was Italian Light, the voice was evil and sexy at the same time. Well, each language has its nuances and I wouldn't judge most since I'm only proficient in English and Afrikaans, and they sure as hell don't sub in Afrikaans (but it would be fucking awesome if they did). If it sounds pleasing to my ear, I'll listen. It's interesting how you view English as sounding "cooler" than Japanese, especially since it isn't your mother-tongue. In any event, what sometimes bugs me about English voice actors is that they seem to come from a very small and limited pool (or at least from my experiences from dubbed anime, it is). On our Animax, it seems Crispin Freeman is in every single show :/ However, the same argument could be turned around on Japanese seiyuu, since there are seiyuu who have a large repetoire of roles in many series. In some cases, they become quite typecast. I mean, you hear Jun Fukuyama everywhere these days, the more and more popular he becomes. Well, at the end of the day, it's a profession, and English or Japanese, I just don't give a shit. I'll watch what I want. |
| I dislike the Japanese language, so I prefer English dubs. However, I don't mind using subtitles for the series I just can't wait for, though that number is small - really small. FMA is just about the only series I'm willing to watch the JPN dub for, so you can imagine how happy I was for it to premier on [as]. I'm incredibly excited for the upcoming episodes (Ling! Who's going to voice you?) as well as for the release of the first DVD. Why does it have to stop at fourteen? /despair |
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| To be honest, I also disliked the japanese language when I first watched anime. But then again, I've always been some what narrow minded and not very open for new things. My country is also very americanized. And there's not much variety in the media. So people are generally very sceptical and uneasy about "foreign" elements, anime being no exception. Thank god I came over that! For me it's not a question about subs vs dubs, it's anime vs tampered anime. I can't help but feel sorry for those that are introduced to anime through drugs, ehm, I mean dubs. |
V3xMay 5, 2010 4:10 PM
V3x said: Thank god I came over that! For me it's not a question about subs vs dubs, it's anime vs tampered anime. I can't help but feel sorry for those that are introduced to anime through drugs, ehm, I mean dubs. Yeah, you are narrow-minded. |
V3x said: For me it's not a question about subs vs dubs, it's anime vs tampered anime. I can't help but feel sorry for those that are introduced to anime through drugs, ehm, I mean dubs It's not really dubs that are "tampered" with - at least in terms of language and translation, I'd say - but I'd attribute that term more accurately to anime that are censored because they are being marketed to young children (and the West tends to be quite conservative). The One Piece dub springs to mind, as they remove/censor many images - though I'm sure that there's an uncensored version. I'm not too clued up on the dub scene, but I'm sure someone can clarify this. The more adult anime dubs I've seen haven't really been tampered with in any way, other than translation - the only example of extreme tampering I recall is the original dub of Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, where parts of the film were deliberately cut to make the film more "accessible" to Western audiences. That, however, was a once off occurrence as Miyazaki threatened to void the license agreement if his films weren't treated with respect. |
V3x said: To be honest, I also disliked the japanese language when I first watched anime. But then again, I've always been some what narrow minded and not very open for new things. My country is also very americanized. And there's not much variety in the media. So people are generally very sceptical and uneasy about "foreign" elements, anime being no exception. Thank god I came over that! For me it's not a question about subs vs dubs, it's anime vs tampered anime. I can't help but feel sorry for those that are introduced to anime through drugs, ehm, I mean dubs. subs are "tampered" as well since they have tons of gramatical errors and the original didnt have words plastered all over the screen etc the only "untampered anime" is watching it raw. I cant help but feel sorry for people who were introduced to anime through subs since they are missing out on a lot of awesome stuff |
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yunn said: (english) subs only. (would choose raw if I would actually understand japanese though) I don't really like dubs. It's most of time either because of horrible translations or stupid/inappropriate voice actors. (Not to mention censorship in german dubs - people don't die, they're exiled into some other dimension/"defeated"/getting thrown down a cascade/having some other fishy excuses for not dying) Same situation and stance here. I also find standard German not working for casual media, bugs me every time I watch TV. And most American voice actors have an ugly accent to my ears. I'd rather hear the Japanese voices and read something I don't really notice either way. |
 And on the edge of sanity I stumble and fall. |
The more adult anime dubs I've seen haven't really been tampered with in any way, other than translation - the only example of extreme tampering I recall is the original dub of Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, where parts of the film were deliberately cut to make the film more "accessible" to Western audiences. That, however, was a once off occurrence as Miyazaki threatened to void the license agreement if his films weren't treated with respect. That's interesting. What parts exactly did they cut? And I would also watch Raw only if I had the skills ^^. I'm just complaining about people who cannot simply be happy with their personal choice of watching without believing their opinion is some kind of objective truth. And about tampering: In the german version of Naruto they cut the scene at the very, very, very beginning where the kyuubi is put into naruto. Well, have fun go get it -.-. Also they cut every little bloodshed (f.e. when Naruto stabs himself in the hand to lose his fear, in the german version he softly hits his hand with his fist -.-) I once knew a homepage where every bit of censoring of Naruto in the german version was listed (~50 times per EPISODE) -> People really should invest the time they invest in censoring in dubbing ^^ |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
That's interesting. What parts exactly did they cut? Miyazaki went ballistic back in the 80s when New World Studios cut more than 30 minutes of the film because they felt it was "too slow moving" (I don't know precisely which scenes). They renamed characters, for example, Nausicaa became 'Princess Zandra', much of the film's narrative meaning was lost, and the environmental aspect were heavily downplayed. They also changed the main subplot of the Ohmu, turning them into aggressive enemies. Oh, and apparently the voice actors weren't even informed of the film's plot during the dubbing process. After this debacle, Miyazaki and Studio Ghibli insisted on a "no editing" clause in all their licensing agreements. Miramax were actually going to cut Princess Mononoke to make it more marketable, and apparently one of the Studio Ghibli producers sent an authentic katana to Miramax's chairman with a message saying "no cuts" :3 They re-dubbed and re-released Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind in 2005. So, although I don't think anything on the scale of the above happens any more (at least I hope not), my main problem with dubbing is censorship. Kids can see worse shit just walking out their front doors these days, so I don't see the point in censoring shows like Naruto. It also makes me wonder about Japanese kids though :/ |
novalisMay 6, 2010 12:52 PM
snips said: that might be true but i think a lot of those omong us (including me) don't speak japanese well enough to understand something like an anime, they just talk to fast, the only anime i could ever watch raw was chii's sweet home but its for children so that doesn't rly count does it? anyways i feel subs (or even dubs) are better then not beeing able to watch at all.... See, the real problem is the purists who think they're watching anime "the way it's meant to be" by watching subs. That isn't true. If you're going to be such a purist, you need to learn Japanese and watch your anime raw. Too tough for you? Too bad. novalis said: So, although I don't think anything on the scale of the above happens any more (at least I hope not), my main problem with dubbing is censorship. Kids can see worse shit just walking out their front doors these days, so I don't see the point in censoring shows like Naruto. It also makes me wonder about Japanese kids though :/ Naruto only really got censored when it started airing on Disney XD. The version played on Toonami/Cartoon Network was actually pretty good while keeping it okay for kids. All they really cut was some blood (not even all of it) and the language, which I don't think is very important. None of this "Never say die" BS. |
supersonic124 said: V3x said: subs are "tampered" as well since they have tons of gramatical errors and the original didnt have words plastered all over the screen etc the only "untampered anime" is watching it raw. I cant help but feel sorry for people who were introduced to anime through subs since they are missing out on a lot of awesome stuff Subs are a layer on top of the image yes. You can per definition say it's tampered because you miss out on some parts of the image covered by the text. Saying plastered all over the screen is overexaggerating, it's 0-1% tops (unless you're referring to Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei where dubs probably fails miserably at conveying the given information anyway). In the end it's so trivial that I wouldn't place it in that category. It's uncomparable to changing the voices and language entirely. And yes, dubs as well as subs can be inaccurate or completely wrong in their translation. Gramatical errors by themselves aren't that of a big issue imo (as long as the word is readable), but it's a big hint telling you that the translation probably sucks as well. Watching subs will cause you to learn some japanese. You will be able to watch raw episodes of shallow/simple series like Bleach/Naruto and understand most of it. You don't know how many cases it have helped me getting a better understanding of words and meanings where accurate translation, at least to english, just wasn't possible. The languages are vastly different, so blindly reading a sub or listening to a dub where stuff is directly translated without any prior knowledge or explanation here than there will make you miss out on a lot. This was just my opinion of some practical differences. Note that I'm not saying subs are superior to dubs or even better ( better as in "accurate conveyance of information") at all, I can't know that. Subs are often made by unorganized and random people while dubs are as far as I know handled by more professional people from an official perspective. So the differences may not be very large if you compare quality for some years worth of anime. |
| Never dub. Sub is the best. Always. |
Redfoxoffire said: snips said: See, the real problem is the purists who think they're watching anime "the way it's meant to be" by watching subs. That isn't true. If you're going to be such a purist, you need to learn Japanese and watch your anime raw. Too tough for you? Too bad. It's not black and white. For me, anime is not my reason for living. I tend to keep it somewhere between that and just entertainment. Learning japanese is tempting, but for me, not worth it. Sorry for jumping into your discussion, just wanted to make a comment xD |
novalis said: V3x said: It's not really dubs that are "tampered" with - at least in terms of language and translation, I'd say - but I'd attribute that term more accurately to anime that are censored because they are being marketed to young children (and the West tends to be quite conservative). The One Piece dub springs to mind, as they remove/censor many images - though I'm sure that there's an uncensored version. I'm not too clued up on the dub scene, but I'm sure someone can clarify this. I should have used another word, like "changed" or "modified" from the original :> What you are saying about censored and/or actual cuts/editing is something that makes my views on subs vs dubs fade in comparison. I'm assuming the One Piece raws and subbed versions aren't cut or edited. Unless you mean the rip source. novalis said: The more adult anime dubs I've seen haven't really been tampered with in any way, other than translation - the only example of extreme tampering I recall is the original dub of Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, where parts of the film were deliberately cut to make the film more "accessible" to Western audiences. That, however, was a once off occurrence as Miyazaki threatened to void the license agreement if his films weren't treated with respect. Yeah, I was just referring to the fact that the language were replaced and translated, again bad use of word :p <3 Miyazaki |
V3x said: Redfoxoffire said: snips said: See, the real problem is the purists who think they're watching anime "the way it's meant to be" by watching subs. That isn't true. If you're going to be such a purist, you need to learn Japanese and watch your anime raw. Too tough for you? Too bad. Learning japanese is tempting, but for me, not worth it. Then the entire argument of watching anime "the way it's meant to be" or "the way the creators intended it to be" falls flat. Hell, even your "unchanged" argument dies, because, believe it or not, but subs are still a translation from Japanese. Anything you need to know Japanese to understand you still won't get, or it at least won't have the same effect. |
Redfoxoffire said: V3x said: Redfoxoffire said: snips said: See, the real problem is the purists who think they're watching anime "the way it's meant to be" by watching subs. That isn't true. If you're going to be such a purist, you need to learn Japanese and watch your anime raw. Too tough for you? Too bad. Learning japanese is tempting, but for me, not worth it. Then the entire argument of watching anime "the way it's meant to be" or "the way the creators intended it to be" falls flat. Hell, even your "unchanged" argument dies, because, believe it or not, but subs are still a translation from Japanese. Anything you need to know Japanese to understand you still won't get, or it at least won't have the same effect. Okay, you got me there. I'll rephrase to "as close as possible to the way it's meant to be". As I said, it's not black and white. And there is nothing changed, there is an added layer that is the subs. With the exception of the parts of the picture that gets covered by subs. My minor understanding of Japanese have helped me. Added together with the many explanations of difficult words/terms/meanings in subs, I've learned to regognize many and built up an understanding after experiencing their use in various situations. Also, I don't think I got an answer to the question about how dubs handles that (explanations for words etc. that can't be translated directly/accurately). Guess they sub them, but still maybe they don't, and that would be a huge information loss/accuracy fail in several cases. |
| Some releases include booklets to explain jokes that most wouldn't quite get (Azumanga Daioh) or full-up MTV-style notes in a separate sub track (Excel Saga (I personally love this method and wish it would happen more)). Other shows expect you to have at least a rudimentary understanding of Japanese culture--these shows are generally targeted at fans who are already somewhat familiar with Japan in general, so they don't need to work on making sure those references are understood. 4kids can go suck a dick ^^ |
KuyuMay 6, 2010 7:15 PM
You can find me on IRC. |
V3x said: Okay, you got me there. I'll rephrase to "as close as possible to the way it's meant to be". As I said, it's not black and white. But that just isn't accurate either. The way it's "meant to be" is watched (and heard), not read. In other words, dubs are as close, in some cases possibly closer, to how it's "meant to be" as subs. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this to you before. And there is nothing changed, there is an added layer that is the subs. With the exception of the parts of the picture that gets covered by subs. That's exactly what I was referring to with "your "unchanged" argument dies." Subtitles are still translating the dialogue, which is very much a change since Japanese sentences are structured differently than English. My minor understanding of Japanese have helped me. Added together with the many explanations of difficult words/terms/meanings in subs, I've learned to regognize many and built up an understanding after experiencing their use in various situations. Me, too, and yet I still like English dubs. Also, I don't think I got an answer to the question about how dubs handles that (explanations for words etc. that can't be translated directly/accurately). Guess they sub them, but still maybe they don't, and that would be a huge information loss/accuracy fail in several cases. I don't think I could tell you, because there are few shows I've seen in both languages. I can, however, point you here. nmanguy said: You know, I'd say not knowing how to speak Japanese is the main draw to subs. I mean, most shows tend to have "that one character" who always has a weird voice. If it's in English, it can be kind of annoying if it's a kid or whatever, but if it's Japanese, I can just chalk it up to "Oh, those silly Japanese and their odd voices". Also, since I don't know "good" voicing in Japanese, I don't have to worry about it. But if it's something I can comprehend, it's something that I can judge. This is another common problem dubhaters don't realize they have. You can't judge what you don't know, but most only end up thinking the Japanese are better as a result. This is also why I find myself listening almost exclusively to Japanese music these days. Some English songs have terrible lyrics, but I have no clue what they're talking about in Japanese songs. |
redfoxoffire said: This is also why I find myself listening almost exclusively to Japanese music these days. Some English songs have terrible lyrics, but I have no clue what they're talking about in Japanese songs. For the record, most Japanese songs have appalling and nonsensical lyrics. I love and listen to a lot of Japanese music, and to some degree I'm glad I don't know what I'm listening to unless I actively look up lyrics. I think I'd listen to a lot less J-Pop if I knew what they were singing. redfoxoffire said: That's exactly what I was referring to with "your "unchanged" argument dies." Subtitles are still translating the dialogue, which is very much a change since Japanese sentences are structured differently than English. I've watched some subs where, what little I hear of of Japanese (that I recognise) can sometimes be different to what I read of the subtitles. There are translators (fansubbers included) who are not always 100% accurate. That's impossible, since like redfoxoffire said, Japanese is structured differently. The best a translator can do is try to make 'sense' as much as possible in English, and have translation notes explaining the cultural significance/joke. I'd like to know what a legal dub like Yakitate! Japan does, where many of the word puns/jokes are strictly Japanese. How does the translation fare? And FYI, there are also many bad seiyuu. I still prefer subs over dubs, but bad acting is bad acting, and it wouldn't be fair to treat all seiyuu as being god-like and superior :3 |
| Answered: "Only subs" and there's my reason.. --> "original audio is best." |
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V3x said: Subs are a layer on top of the image yes. You can per definition say it's tampered because you miss out on some parts of the image covered by the text. Saying plastered all over the screen is overexaggerating, it's 0-1% tops (unless you're referring to Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei where dubs probably fails miserably at conveying the given information anyway). In the end it's so trivial that I wouldn't place it in that category. It's uncomparable to changing the voices and language entirely. there is stuff plastered all over the screen, translation notes every 5 seconds, crappy karaoke,super imposed translations over the original artwork, fansubbers putting their names in the credits etc dubs are clean and untouched compared to subs and Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei doesnt even have a dub, mediablasters did it sub only |
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| Well, I can understand anime should be watch in Sub. But you have to be aware some of the English VAs that do anime dub have done non-anime voice over like I believe Steve Blum who voiced Spike Spiegel is also the voice of Wolverine. Here's the problem with the "anime should be watch in Japanese because it's original" logic. What about anime based on popular western franchises, like Batman: Gotham Knight and Halo: Legends? Should we watch that in Japanese or English? Sure anime should be watch in Japanese. But here's the problem, if you watch Batman: Gotham Knight in Japanese, wouldn't Batman voice sound weird in Japanese to most people because they are used to hearing Batman in English, not Japanese. Also if other western franchises were to be adapted into anime, let use this logic: If Tomb Raider had a anime adaptation, would you want to hear Lara Croft in Japanese over English when you first watch a Tomb Raider anime. -if Bioshock had an anime, would you want to hear Andrew Ryan, Frank Fontaine, and Brigitte Tanebaum in Japanese over English? -if Ratchet & Clank became a anime anthology, would you rather want to hear Makoto Tsumura over James Arnold Taylor voice as Ratchet? -Iron Man anime: Would you rather hear Tony Stark/Iron Man in Japanese over English. Also, fansubs has it's own problem. Like mistranslation and censorship (usually the fansubs use the Japanese Network TV version which are subject to censorship in Japan). I watch Girls Bravo in fansub and found out the nudity was censored until I saw the dub which was uncut and nudity was restored. Also, are you aware the Japanese like our English dub in anime? Don't believe me, look at these forum from mania.com http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showthread.php?t=99727 (English VA that received praise in Japan) http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showthread.php?t=81967 (Do the Japanese like our dub?) So I like watching both dub and sub. I not only watch anime in English dub. I have got chance to watch Disney film in Japanese and also watching American game dub in Japanese like Gears of War, Bioshock, Killzone 2. |
mdo7 said: http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showthread.php?t=99727 (English VA that received praise in Japan) http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showthread.php?t=81967 (Do the Japanese like our dub?) I thought I recognized your name, and those links sparked my memory. You posted those links on JustDubs as well in the topic I made there on this subject. Nice to see you here. |
Redfoxoffire said: mdo7 said: http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showthread.php?t=99727 (English VA that received praise in Japan) http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showthread.php?t=81967 (Do the Japanese like our dub?) I thought I recognized your name, and those links sparked my memory. You posted those links on JustDubs as well in the topic I made there on this subject. Nice to see you here. Ah Red fox, didn't know you were on MAL. I just registered on MAL just few months ago. I think it's about time I should get involved with this forum. |
supersonic124 said: V3x said: there is stuff plastered all over the screen, translation notes every 5 seconds, crappy karaoke,super imposed translations over the original artwork, fansubbers putting their names in the credits etc dubs are clean and untouched compared to subs and Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei doesnt even have a dub, mediablasters did it sub only Ok, I guess you don't have much experience with subbed anime at all. I have seen over 350 different series/movies, and can't think of more than a handful where things are "plastered all over the screen", and in those they were really needed. Of course there are translation notes every 5 seconds, they are there to help you understand what people are saying. You're saying it like they're an annoyance. Superimposed translations. Again, yes, they cover a fraction of the screen. A fraction. Compared to the removal of the entire voice layer... I don't really mind some extra lines of text in the credits, and can't comprehend why anyone would either. |
Redfoxoffire said: V3x said: But that just isn't accurate either. The way it's "meant to be" is watched (and heard), not read. In other words, dubs are as close, in some cases possibly closer, to how it's "meant to be" as subs. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this to you before. A dub lacks the entire voice layer. I'm pretty sure that's further away than not lacking the entire voice layer. Yes, I don't understand most of what they are saying in japanese, but I'm still hearing it, unlike dubs, where you hear something different. To me it seems like you define it as gibberish and nonsense with text. I think you are seriously underestimating how the original audio and subs work together. Redfoxoffire said: V3x said: That's exactly what I was referring to with "your "unchanged" argument dies." Subtitles are still translating the dialogue, which is very much a change since Japanese sentences are structured differently than English. You're still hearing the language as it is, and even if the sentences are structured different in english (I know very well how true this is), you will learn how. I'm not joking here. Explaining it more throughly is kinda messy so can't say much more than "go watch 5000 episodes of subbed anime" and you'll see. The only physical change is the addition of the visual subtitle layer, which is a minimal change compared to removing the entire voice layer. I used unchanged, because the picture is 99% unchanged and the audio 100%. If you're gonna hold that 1% against me, you can just have it. Redfoxoffire said: Vex said: Me, too, and yet I still like English dubs. My point here was through watching subs. You can't get that from dubs alone. |
V3xMay 7, 2010 2:55 PM
mdo7 said: You make some interesting points here. For me, I think the line would go with how equal to whatever they base it on it is, or how far away it is (drawing style, themes, dialogue, plot, characters ish type of mix) from what I define and know as "normal anime". But would still prefer japanese voices, I think, as long as it reminds me more of anime than hollywood/western series/movies. Heavily influenced series would probably make me think twice about that though. I wish they would hire (more) non-japanese voice-actors for characters that are from other countries and are supposed to speak their native languages instead of all japanese :/ Like german voices in Monster! Even though Tenma is japanese, I'm sure he knew and spoke german with most people there :D Edit: nevermind. I think Monster is best in japanese. Anime must be japanese! Maybe I'm a little biased after all. It's just that most of what I've watched is clearly different in both form and origin from most average western shows/movies. Putting english voices on, would just draw them that much closer together. It would change too much for me to accept. Even if the evolution of much anime goes in that direction, it's still far away. |
V3xMay 7, 2010 3:22 PM
| I prefer the orginal japanese audio with subs.. Dont like the german/english voices in the most animes.. better say they suck as hell |
V3x said: A dub lacks the entire voice layer. I'm pretty sure that's further away than not lacking the entire voice layer. Yes, I don't understand most of what they are saying in japanese, but I'm still hearing it, unlike dubs, where you hear something different. To me it seems like you define it as gibberish and nonsense with text. I think you are seriously underestimating how the original audio and subs work together. You're not getting my point. Who are you, or anyone for that matter, to say that we as native English speakers (for those who are) were meant to watch these shows with the Japanese audio and English subtitles? Which director said that? Because the only commentary I've ever heard from an anime director on this subject is what I've already said multiple times; it is meant to be watched, not read. If that means changing the voices so it can be heard in your native tongue, that could be seen as closer to how it's "meant to be" than subtitling it. If you still aren't following me, we might just have to agree to disagree on this point. V3x said: You're still hearing the language as it is, and even if the sentences are structured different in english (I know very well how true this is), you will learn how. I'm not joking here. Explaining it more throughly is kinda messy so can't say much more than "go watch 5000 episodes of subbed anime" and you'll see. Are you saying I'll learn Japanese by watching anime subbed? Because that is just about the most naive thing you can think. Sure, you'll learn some small words and phrases, I've learned a few myself. But it's not as though you'll actually be able to start speaking the language. In the end, learning Japanese is not a requirement for watching anime anyway. Picking up a few words here and there can only be a small personal bonus, it won't help to win this argument because it's irrelevant to the point at hand. The only physical change is the addition of the visual subtitle layer, which is a minimal change compared to removing the entire voice layer. I used unchanged, because the picture is 99% unchanged and the audio 100%. If you're gonna hold that 1% against me, you can just have it. I don't care about that. I can barely think of the times the subtitles got in the way of something I wanted to see. You will never see me use this argument. Vex said: My point here was through watching subs. You can't get that from dubs alone. Once again, irrelevant to the point at hand. |
Redfoxoffire said: You're not getting my point. Who are you, or anyone for that matter, to say that we as native English speakers (for those who are) were meant to watch these shows with the Japanese audio and English subtitles? Which director said that? Because the only commentary I've ever heard from an anime director on this subject is what I've already said multiple times; it is meant to be watched, not read. If that means changing the voices so it can be heard in your native tongue, that could be seen as closer to how it's "meant to be" than subtitling it. If you still aren't following me, we might just have to agree to disagree on this point. I never meant to dictate what other people should do. I just stated my opinions on the matter and how I thought about it. I base those on what I think is right, not what some commentary or director said. I feel that it's you that didn't follow me, but can't blame you. I suck at translating thoughts into words. You think dubs are better, I think subs are. We might as well stop there. Redfoxoffore said: Are you saying I'll learn Japanese by watching anime subbed? Because that is just about the most naive thing you can think. Sure, you'll learn some small words and phrases, I've learned a few myself. But it's not as though you'll actually be able to start speaking the language. No and wasn't my point. I am under the impression that during the moments you hear and read, you get (with experience) a better understanding than if you just read and didn't hear a word, even if you don't know the words, or remember them afterwards. That's the best explanation I'm up for atm xD |
| Only sub. I even dropped some Animes because I couldn't find it subbed, only dubbed. |
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V3x said: You think dubs are better, I think subs are. We might as well stop there. I do not. My argument this entire time is that neither is better than the other. It's just your preference. It may seem like I'm saying dubs are better, but that's because I counter "subs are better" arguments with ways to make dubs look the same or better under the same train of thought. V3x said: No and wasn't my point. I am under the impression that during the moments you hear and read, you get (with experience) a better understanding than if you just read and didn't hear a word, even if you don't know the words, or remember them afterwards. That's the best explanation I'm up for atm xD Yeah, I guess I sort of missed you on that one. I still don't think it's relevant though, because learning more Japanese won't help me enjoy anime any more than I already do. |
Only sub. |
♥  ♥  ♥ |
| I'm not saying subs or dub are better. But you might want to look into what happen if more popular western franchises become anime. Let's use Star War and say if that become an anime. How would you watch this? As I said, there's a problem with "anime should be watch in Japanese because it's original" logic. What if Mark Hamill reprise his role as Luke Skywalker in the Star War anime anthology? Would you watch that in English or Japanese? What about Marvel's upcoming Iron Man or Wolverine anime, would you watch that in Japanese or English? If you watch Wolverine in Japanese, wouldn't it sound a little weird to hear Wolverine in Japanese (unless you been watching X-men, and playing the video game in Japanese dub). But watching it in English will make you feel like you're watching dubbed anime but hearing Wolverine in Japanese will sound weird to you because you're used to hearing Wolverine's voice in English? |
Reckful said: Redfoxoffire said: It may seem like I'm saying dubs are better np we all know it's impossible for dubs to be better. Troll harder. |
mdo7 said: I'm not saying subs or dub are better. But you might want to look into what happen if more popular western franchises become anime. Let's use Star War and say if that become an anime. How would you watch this? As I said, there's a problem with "anime should be watch in Japanese because it's original" logic. What if Mark Hamill reprise his role as Luke Skywalker in the Star War anime anthology? Would you watch that in English or Japanese? What about Marvel's upcoming Iron Man or Wolverine anime, would you watch that in Japanese or English? If you watch Wolverine in Japanese, wouldn't it sound a little weird to hear Wolverine in Japanese (unless you been watching X-men, and playing the video game in Japanese dub). But watching it in English will make you feel like you're watching dubbed anime but hearing Wolverine in Japanese will sound weird to you because you're used to hearing Wolverine's voice in English? so true.... ...rNr... |
| "In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same." |
| The whole dub vs sub debate is totally dated. It originated when VHS tapes were the main medium for anime so fans needed to choose whether they wanted their show subbed or dubbed. Nowadays, DVDs have both the English and Japanese audio so people can choose which one they like for each particular show. I myself prefer dubs because one of the things I like about anime is the visuals and I can't enjoy them if I have to split my attention reading the subs. That being said, I do watch about half of my anime subbed just because that's usually what's readily available streaming. Ideally, anime should be watched in raw Japanese but I can't be bothered to learn Japanese just so I can watch a giant robot pun h an alien in the face. |
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JP_rNr said: mdo7 said: I'm not saying subs or dub are better. But you might want to look into what happen if more popular western franchises become anime. Let's use Star War and say if that become an anime. How would you watch this? As I said, there's a problem with "anime should be watch in Japanese because it's original" logic. What if Mark Hamill reprise his role as Luke Skywalker in the Star War anime anthology? Would you watch that in English or Japanese? What about Marvel's upcoming Iron Man or Wolverine anime, would you watch that in Japanese or English? If you watch Wolverine in Japanese, wouldn't it sound a little weird to hear Wolverine in Japanese (unless you been watching X-men, and playing the video game in Japanese dub). But watching it in English will make you feel like you're watching dubbed anime but hearing Wolverine in Japanese will sound weird to you because you're used to hearing Wolverine's voice in English? so true.... ...rNr... Thanks, Also I like to add something to my point, Did you all forget: Afro Samurai-that anime never had Japanese audio. Just English audio only. Also, When this anime was broadcasted in Japan it was shown in English with Japanese subtitle. I believed it was the first anime not to have any Japanese audio at all. Devil May Cry anime-I think most Japanese audience and hardcore DMC fan who play the game may find the Japanese audio for the anime a bit weird to them. WHY?? Because the game never had any Japanese audio at all. In fact, none of the 4 games used Japanese audio, just English (and Japanese subtitle). So the Japanese audio for the anime would sound very odd to many DMC fan (even the Japanese fan). It would make many USA fan of the game switch to the English voice because the guy who voiced Dante in the game also voiced him in the anime. Sadly, Trish and Lady's VA for the game didn't reprise the role for the anime. Damn you, ADV why didn't you get Kari Whalgren to reprise her role for the DMC anime, she's a anime VA also. |
V3x said: mdo7 said: You make some interesting points here. For me, I think the line would go with how equal to whatever they base it on it is, or how far away it is (drawing style, themes, dialogue, plot, characters ish type of mix) from what I define and know as "normal anime". But would still prefer japanese voices, I think, as long as it reminds me more of anime than hollywood/western series/movies. Heavily influenced series would probably make me think twice about that though. I wish they would hire (more) non-japanese voice-actors for characters that are from other countries and are supposed to speak their native languages instead of all japanese :/ Like german voices in Monster! Even though Tenma is japanese, I'm sure he knew and spoke german with most people there :D Edit: nevermind. I think Monster is best in japanese. Anime must be japanese! Maybe I'm a little biased after all. It's just that most of what I've watched is clearly different in both form and origin from most average western shows/movies. Putting english voices on, would just draw them that much closer together. It would change too much for me to accept. Even if the evolution of much anime goes in that direction, it's still far away. So I'm going to take if Star War became a anime. You would prefer to hear Luke Skywalker in Japanese over Mark Hamill voice because it's a anime and anime should be watch in Japanese no matter if it's based on famous American/western franchises. Very illogical thought you got there. So that does that mean every popular western/American franchises that get anime adaptation like Call of Duty: Modern Warfare should be watch in Japanese even if the English VA reprise their character from the game to voice them in the anime. |
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