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How would you explain "Romance for a male audience" to a western (Mostly American) audience?

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Sep 1, 10:22 AM

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There is barely any good romance in anime tho most of it is female catered anyway so trying to get men to watch romance especially in anime isn't going to work westerners don't really believe in romance and it's society reflects that.
Sep 1, 10:29 AM

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Reply to giantpudding
@JaniSIr Nah, the whole point is that the author got to insert his fetishes into the show

JaniSIr said:
Also that comment was supposed to be a half joke...

Yes i know
@giantpudding Oh come on, it's a pretty mild show all things considered.
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Sep 1, 12:04 PM

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Reply to giantpudding
@JaniSIr Nah, the whole point is that the author got to insert his fetishes into the show

JaniSIr said:
Also that comment was supposed to be a half joke...

Yes i know
giantpudding said:
@JaniSIr Nah, the whole point is that the author got to insert his fetishes into the show

...such as?
......................
Sep 1, 2:26 PM

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Reply to JaniSIr
@giantpudding Oh come on, it's a pretty mild show all things considered.
@JaniSIr Compared to what, historically accurate shows? Do they have the author shoving this shit nonstop



down everyone's throat?
Sep 1, 3:21 PM

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Reply to giantpudding
@JaniSIr Compared to what, historically accurate shows? Do they have the author shoving this shit nonstop



down everyone's throat?
@giantpudding
What exactly is wrong with a succubus looking like that?
Sep 1, 3:41 PM

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Interesting, I've kind of thought about this in a way. I wasn't big into anime in high school, but I feel like if I had been and was seen reading a manga with some girly looking cover I would have been called gay and gotten beat up. But maybe you just need to open it up to the fan service part and say, "what you don't like this?"
Sep 1, 3:48 PM

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Reply to giantpudding
@JaniSIr Compared to what, historically accurate shows? Do they have the author shoving this shit nonstop



down everyone's throat?
@giantpudding For reference, the competition of Junketsu no Maria is this:

Time travel into a harem of gender swapped Japanese warlord.
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Sep 4, 9:36 AM

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giantpudding said:
Yes yes, you can basically throw the whole historically accurate argument out the window when you add the fetish porn in


Huh? So Caligula is not historically accurate because it contains porn?
Sep 4, 3:29 PM

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Reply to TransferUser
giantpudding said:
Yes yes, you can basically throw the whole historically accurate argument out the window when you add the fetish porn in


Huh? So Caligula is not historically accurate because it contains porn?
@TransferUser If you told a historian that you believed dominatrix witches and string lingerie wearing succubi roamed the land in the late middle ages, they would tell you to seek mental help.

Hope that helps.
Sep 4, 4:21 PM

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Reply to giantpudding
@TransferUser If you told a historian that you believed dominatrix witches and string lingerie wearing succubi roamed the land in the late middle ages, they would tell you to seek mental help.

Hope that helps.
@giantpudding
Cringe and bluepilled.
"Ehrm, OP, that's not what THE SCIENCE said that happened, Professor Soyberg won't be pleased with your comments, you should stop with this and go back to the pod eat slop".
Sep 4, 4:33 PM

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Reply to thewiru
@giantpudding
Cringe and bluepilled.
"Ehrm, OP, that's not what THE SCIENCE said that happened, Professor Soyberg won't be pleased with your comments, you should stop with this and go back to the pod eat slop".
@thewiru Yes i know, everyone keeps replying to your topics saying that you're not making sense.
Sep 5, 2:13 AM

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giantpudding said:
If you told a historian that you believed dominatrix witches and string lingerie wearing succubi roamed the land in the late middle ages, they would tell you to seek mental help.


You're saying this as if you never heard of witch burnings. Or what, do you think those weren't dominatrix and lingerie wearing women? Preposterous. Why else would they be burned?
Sep 5, 2:26 AM
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Reply to thewiru
@giantpudding
Huh? Why would people have sex if they didn't love one another?
@thewiru

I would recommend reading a book on biology.
Sep 5, 2:57 AM

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Reply to giantpudding
@TransferUser If you told a historian that you believed dominatrix witches and string lingerie wearing succubi roamed the land in the late middle ages, they would tell you to seek mental help.

Hope that helps.
@giantpudding I really just think you don't know what the point of the "alternate history" subgenre is. lol
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Sep 5, 4:01 AM

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Reply to TransferUser
giantpudding said:
If you told a historian that you believed dominatrix witches and string lingerie wearing succubi roamed the land in the late middle ages, they would tell you to seek mental help.


You're saying this as if you never heard of witch burnings. Or what, do you think those weren't dominatrix and lingerie wearing women? Preposterous. Why else would they be burned?
@TransferUser I think you need to lay off the porn for a bit because it's clearly rotting your brain
Sep 5, 4:17 AM

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Reply to JaniSIr
@giantpudding I really just think you don't know what the point of the "alternate history" subgenre is. lol
@JaniSIr Just because some gooner author dumped a ton of his favorite porn fetishes in a historical setting doesn't mean it's alternate history.
Sep 5, 5:25 PM

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Reply to TransferUser
giantpudding said:
If you told a historian that you believed dominatrix witches and string lingerie wearing succubi roamed the land in the late middle ages, they would tell you to seek mental help.


You're saying this as if you never heard of witch burnings. Or what, do you think those weren't dominatrix and lingerie wearing women? Preposterous. Why else would they be burned?
@TransferUser I assume this is sarcastic. Regardless, usually because they were old spinsters, that no one liked. Also witch burnings weren't actually common until the Early Modern period. Witches were more older unlikeable women which is where we get the traditional image; however, anime ain't going to give you MCs that don't conform to beauty norms, nor does Japan really have the best understanding of medieval Europe.

thewiru said:
What exactly is wrong with a succubus looking like that?
Well if you are going off how medieval people saw succubus/incubuses, they weren't depicted attractive at all. I mean they are demons dude, less sexy and more creatures from hell. Granted of course Lucifer is supposed to be an Angel of Light however, the traditional depiction of demons is the typical horns and grotesque faces thing, especially in the High/Late Middle Ages. They might disguise themselves, however, they should be abhorrent deep down. That would be an interesting concept though.....I doubt you will see it in Japan isekai fantasy land.

giantpudding said:
Just because some gooner author dumped a ton of his favorite porn fetishes in a historical setting doesn't mean it's alternate history.
......I mean yeah it is lol. You can do whatever you want with alternate history in theory. Historical erotica is pretty popular.
BilboBaggins365Sep 5, 5:37 PM
Sep 5, 11:16 PM

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BilboBaggins365 said:
Well if you are going off how medieval people saw succubus/incubuses, they weren't depicted attractive at all. I mean they are demons dude, less sexy and more creatures from hell. Granted of course Lucifer is supposed to be an Angel of Light however, the traditional depiction of demons is the typical horns and grotesque faces thing, especially in the High/Late Middle Ages. They might disguise themselves, however, they should be abhorrent deep down. That would be an interesting concept though.....I doubt you will see it in Japan isekai fantasy land.

Sexy Satan is not exactly a modern concept, that was in Paradise Lost too.
Although I suppose the 100 years war was like 200 years before that.
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Sep 5, 11:19 PM

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Reply to JaniSIr
BilboBaggins365 said:
Well if you are going off how medieval people saw succubus/incubuses, they weren't depicted attractive at all. I mean they are demons dude, less sexy and more creatures from hell. Granted of course Lucifer is supposed to be an Angel of Light however, the traditional depiction of demons is the typical horns and grotesque faces thing, especially in the High/Late Middle Ages. They might disguise themselves, however, they should be abhorrent deep down. That would be an interesting concept though.....I doubt you will see it in Japan isekai fantasy land.

Sexy Satan is not exactly a modern concept, that was in Paradise Lost too.
Although I suppose the 100 years war was like 200 years before that.
@JaniSIr Well my point is Sexy Satan is literally in the bible lol. You don't have to go to Paradise Lost. That said, how people depicted these creatures in the medieval period tended to not be flattering.
Sep 6, 2:06 AM

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BilboBaggins365 said:
traditional depiction of demons is the typical horns
Traditional is a flexible word.

As far as my understanding goes, originally horns were associated with with pagan creatures of the good alignment. For example Pan.
Christianity then demonified those pagan beliefs and adopted the horns for their demons.

It's a fairly adaptable religion.


BilboBaggins365 said:
succubus/incubuses, they weren't depicted attractive at all
Wasn't that also a kind of revisionism? I seem to recall that originally they were very sexy.
Not sure about the exact origin, but Lilith might have been among the first batch and I don't recall her ever being portrayed as unattractive.
Sep 6, 2:11 AM

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Oct 2017
5206
Reply to TransferUser
BilboBaggins365 said:
traditional depiction of demons is the typical horns
Traditional is a flexible word.

As far as my understanding goes, originally horns were associated with with pagan creatures of the good alignment. For example Pan.
Christianity then demonified those pagan beliefs and adopted the horns for their demons.

It's a fairly adaptable religion.


BilboBaggins365 said:
succubus/incubuses, they weren't depicted attractive at all
Wasn't that also a kind of revisionism? I seem to recall that originally they were very sexy.
Not sure about the exact origin, but Lilith might have been among the first batch and I don't recall her ever being portrayed as unattractive.
TransferUser said:
As far as my understanding goes, originally horns were associated with with pagan creatures of the good alignment. For example Pan.
Christianity then demonified those pagan beliefs and adopted the horns for their demons.
Yeah we are talking about Christianity.

TransferUser said:
Wasn't that also a kind of revisionism? I seem to recall that originally they were very sexy.
I am talking about how they are depicted in art from the period.
Sep 6, 4:20 AM

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BilboBaggins365 said:
I am talking about how they are depicted in art from the period.


Come to think of it, did that period even have any art that was good looking? As far as I recall all people in art during that time look fugly as well.
Sep 6, 11:38 AM

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Oct 2017
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Reply to TransferUser
BilboBaggins365 said:
I am talking about how they are depicted in art from the period.


Come to think of it, did that period even have any art that was good looking? As far as I recall all people in art during that time look fugly as well.
@TransferUser If you don't like the art of medieval illuminated manuscripts we can't be friends lol.
Sep 6, 12:15 PM

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Reply to BilboBaggins365
@TransferUser If you don't like the art of medieval illuminated manuscripts we can't be friends lol.
@BilboBaggins365 Which of them is your favorite waifu?

Yesterday, 4:21 PM

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Reply to BilboBaggins365
@TransferUser I assume this is sarcastic. Regardless, usually because they were old spinsters, that no one liked. Also witch burnings weren't actually common until the Early Modern period. Witches were more older unlikeable women which is where we get the traditional image; however, anime ain't going to give you MCs that don't conform to beauty norms, nor does Japan really have the best understanding of medieval Europe.

thewiru said:
What exactly is wrong with a succubus looking like that?
Well if you are going off how medieval people saw succubus/incubuses, they weren't depicted attractive at all. I mean they are demons dude, less sexy and more creatures from hell. Granted of course Lucifer is supposed to be an Angel of Light however, the traditional depiction of demons is the typical horns and grotesque faces thing, especially in the High/Late Middle Ages. They might disguise themselves, however, they should be abhorrent deep down. That would be an interesting concept though.....I doubt you will see it in Japan isekai fantasy land.

giantpudding said:
Just because some gooner author dumped a ton of his favorite porn fetishes in a historical setting doesn't mean it's alternate history.
......I mean yeah it is lol. You can do whatever you want with alternate history in theory. Historical erotica is pretty popular.
@BilboBaggins365 Sure, you can distort a genre to do whatever you want in theory. I've even seen people distort reality and claim the show is historically accurate.
Yesterday, 11:52 PM

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Oct 2017
5206
Reply to giantpudding
@BilboBaggins365 Sure, you can distort a genre to do whatever you want in theory. I've even seen people distort reality and claim the show is historically accurate.
@giantpudding Alt history by definition is just "what if" history. It literally doesn't need to be rational or believable, nor......historically accurate. Wolfenstein is alt history, and it's more weird occult shit and science fiction, than any realistic vision of how Germany could have won WW2. Literally impossible, they would have needed Sci Fi shit to win that war.

If that can qualify sure you can have your weird latex witch in the Hundred Years War lol (might even be more believable than Germany having a chance to win WW2, though alt history writers love that topic). When an artist is crafting historical fiction, I am very stringent on historical accuracy, when they are doing alt history, I don't care at all, nor should anyone.

You can be more grounded in thinking about how small divergences, could shape our history in a realistic way, however, that isn't the only correct form of alternate history. The point of alternate history, if anything, is just to give you a tool box, to do whatever you want in the past.

TransferUser said:
Which of them is your favorite waifu?
Okay...sure not everyone was waifu bait lol. Still The Garden of Earthly Delights (I guess this is between Late Medieval and Early Modern whatever) is probably one of my favorite art pieces of all time. And I just like all the cute animals killing people in the manuscripts.



BilboBaggins365Yesterday, 11:56 PM
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Reply to BilboBaggins365
@giantpudding Alt history by definition is just "what if" history. It literally doesn't need to be rational or believable, nor......historically accurate. Wolfenstein is alt history, and it's more weird occult shit and science fiction, than any realistic vision of how Germany could have won WW2. Literally impossible, they would have needed Sci Fi shit to win that war.

If that can qualify sure you can have your weird latex witch in the Hundred Years War lol (might even be more believable than Germany having a chance to win WW2, though alt history writers love that topic). When an artist is crafting historical fiction, I am very stringent on historical accuracy, when they are doing alt history, I don't care at all, nor should anyone.

You can be more grounded in thinking about how small divergences, could shape our history in a realistic way, however, that isn't the only correct form of alternate history. The point of alternate history, if anything, is just to give you a tool box, to do whatever you want in the past.

TransferUser said:
Which of them is your favorite waifu?
Okay...sure not everyone was waifu bait lol. Still The Garden of Earthly Delights (I guess this is between Late Medieval and Early Modern whatever) is probably one of my favorite art pieces of all time. And I just like all the cute animals killing people in the manuscripts.



@BilboBaggins365 That's a lot of words for alt history is whatever I want. You should watch some actual alt history instead of distorting the genre to fit your porn fantasies into it
11 hours ago

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Oct 2017
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Reply to giantpudding
@BilboBaggins365 That's a lot of words for alt history is whatever I want. You should watch some actual alt history instead of distorting the genre to fit your porn fantasies into it
@giantpudding That's a lot of words, to just say I am weirdly peeved that this genre isn't just stuff I like. Where did I say anything about what "I want" lol. I am just saying alt history is objectively a pretty unserious genre. Get over it dude. There is no "distortion" here lol. I am highly likely more historically literate than you on this period. I have read Jonathan Sumption's books on the Hundred Years War (though haven't finished them), and IDC that Japan made a series about the Hundred Years War, where they have a latex mage dude lol. I don't see why you should get super defensive. It isn't supposed to be an actual serious take on the period. Alt history is literally fantasy history, and you can go somewhat grounded or very far out there.
BilboBaggins36511 hours ago
10 hours ago

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BilboBaggins365 said:
I am highly likely more historically literate than you on this period. I have read Jonathan Sumption's books on the Hundred Years War (though haven't finished them)

Hey now no need to slam your dick on the discussion table. I'm not the one who argued that a porn show is alternate history because Wolfenstein has sci-fi elements.
7 hours ago
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Honestly, I ususally frame it as the person in the relationship that the story focuses on more. In shoujo romance, the girl is usually the main focus, because it's mainly girls reading it and they would find the FMC more relatable. I don't read a ton of shonen romance but most of them focus more on the guy, because that's what boys would find more relatable.
I'm either crashing out or fujoing out.
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