Oh man, I thought the first half was rough, the second half is where it gets serious. Not only is the entire story dependent on a couple serious plot holes, the message of the show is also extremely questionable. Let's first go over the plot holes.
The time leap device's 48-hour limitation is so dumb
The premise is since your brain state constantly evolves over time, there is a limit on how far back you can travel with the time leap device, since the difference in your brain state can't be too great. However they probably forgot that if you use this device once, your brain state of your past self is updated, meaning you cannot use it again repeatedly. For example if you start at 0 hour, then at 96 hour, you travel back to hour 48, this makes sense. But now your brain state is equivalent to hour 96, meaning you will now be too different from hour 0 to travel back again to hour 0. In fact this machine should be one time use only because as time passes after you travel to hour 48, your brain state continues to evolve which pushes forward the latest time you can travel back to.
They could've just said it's 48 hours only without explaining why, yet they have to come up with a dumb explanation that contradicts the rest of the story.
Suzuha traveling to 1975 did not trigger a reconstruction
So you're telling me this giant time machine being brought back to 1975 somehow made absolutely no difference, SERN did not get hold of the time machine, Suzuha living out her life for decades, getting into contact with Mr.Braun all made absolutely no difference, not even to Mr.Braun?
And yet Ruka buying a lottery ticket that doesn't win, is such a huge difference that the timeline had to reconstruct? What sense does that make?
Why doesn't Suzuha just tell Mr.Braun to send the letter earlier
She's in the past, she can leave a letter to be sent at any time in the future, why not have it send before her past self leaves from the future? I know why, because the time travel model of this show is so dumb it can't handle paradoxes like this.
The entire Suzuha event does not follow the show's time travel model
Think about a simple "no reconstruction" time travel event, only AFTER they send the test D-mail to the past, are they able to see that D-mail received in their phone, they do not remember receiving it, and they could not have seen the messages before sending them.
In this case, Suzuha is the D-mail, meaning there's no way anybody can remember meeting Suzuha in the past, including Mr.Braun. They could simply discover that Suzuha has been living somewhere, this whole time, after her time machine departed.
Suzuha kept looking at the divergence meter
Is she dumb? Does she not understand that by the rules of the show, nobody will ever be able to see the divergence meter change except for Okabe. This device effectively only shows a fixed number at all times, for everyone else.
Okabe would have failed to undo the D-mails if not for deus ex machina
Okabe's plan to undo Faris's D-mail is to simply ask her what mail did she send, is he fucking dumb as well? By the rules of the show so far, Faris cannot possibly remember what D-mail was sent. Instead what he should ask her, is what random spam mail did she or her parents receive that made a big impact on their lives.
Turns out even that question would not have worked because Faris doesn't know about her dad receiving it, so really Okabe was fucked, thankfully the plot saves him by suddenly inventing a rule that if you just shake them hard enough, they can somehow remember the things they have no business remembering.
Okabe proves he's stupid once again with Ruka
Okabe somehow still doesn't understand that from Ruka's perspective, she's always been a girl, she is actually a girl, that's all there is to it. There is no distinction between "actual" or "real" and "fake" or "alternative" time lines, every time line is equally "actual", the only difference is Okabe prefers some of them over others. There is zero concern for example over the fact that Kurisu is "actually" dead in the "actual" timeline, he's still gonna change the timeline to bring her back isn't he?
So Okabe is going to use the "original timeline" argument when it suits him, and ignore it when it does not suit him?
The IBN 5100 plot device is dumb
We should get this out of the way by now, the idea that there's a program written for an old computer, so you have to get that computer to run the program, is incredibly stupid. Clearly whoever came up with this has zero knowledge of how computers work. You can play NES games without an actual NES duh? In fact you can reverse engineer old programs and makes them run on any other computer.
Once again this should not have been a serious plot hole, it's just a McGuffin, but the unnecessary dumb explanation made it so much worse. Why not just say this is a PC used in a SERN lab and there's a floppy disk in it with the program they need? Or maybe say it's a custom architecture not used in any commercial device so nobody knows what the instruction set is? Nope, they gotta go with the "must get an NES to run my NES game" plot device oh god...
Okabe claims he is fated to not get the IBN5100 without any evidence
Obviously we know he's telling the truth, because he speaks for the author and the author is saying, he's fated to not get it, even though he hasn't tried to get it since undoing the D-mails. Things are just happening without any reason or buildup.
Kurisu's dad is also a dumbass
He apparently thinks that the best way to advance his academic career, is to kill his 18yo daughter and publish this one paper she wrote...
How about keeping her alive so she can write more papers for you to publish? How about don't simply stab her with a knife, getting blood all over yourself? Fucking anything but this incredibly dumb plan? I know he's not as smart as Kurisu but he's still a serious scientist isn't he? Here he's practically a braindead caveman for the convenience of the plot.
There can't possibly be a WWIII over time machines
Someone clearly did not think this through, because according to the rules of the show, people without Reading Steiner are unable to use time machines. Think about this from the perspective of any other character in the show, the ONLY instance where they successfully use a time machine, is in one of those "no reconstruction" uses, which basically equates to wasted usage. If you try to use a time machine to make a substantial change, the timeline will reconstruct and you will not remember having used it.
So imagine if you are a political leader evaluating what you can use the time machine for, you will soon realize that all time travel attempts have failed to make any difference, because that's only timeline your consciousness can end up on.
In fact, for this very reason, SERN could not have ruled the world with their time machine, because if they have a time machine to use, they will only find out that it is totally useless.
Okabe going back in time but doesn't meet himself
After Okabe went back in the time machine, the timeline did not reconstruct, so when he goes back a second time, he should be able to meet 2 other versions of himself in the past but he doesn't, because the story can't work if he does.
Once again there would've been an easy solution to this, just remove the first time, that time basically served no purpose except to tells us that Kurisu at this point is fated to die and can't be saved. But we don't need a demonstration, remember when the author simply pulls out of his ass that Okabe is fated to not get the IBN5100? Why not just do the same thing here? Have future Okabe tell him Kurisu can't be saved, no need for any proofs!
And now for the grand finally, the biggest plot hole of them all
Turns out the secret trick to saving someone who is fated to die, is to simply knock them out and have someone discover the "body" , surely this will fool the fabric of the universe and stop it from killing this person.
Does this mean that if they go to that first timeline where Moeka shoots Mayurin, switch out her real bullet with red paintball, it would save Mayurin's life? This is just beyond stupid, anybody with a shred of common sense would think you cannot escape your fate by fainting death?
Unless the show is implying that Okabe is some kind of a Suzumiya Haruhi type of figure, so as long as he thinks someone is dead, that's good enough. But even that won't work because Okabe is doing this fake death thing himself! So he knows! What should probably happen is when he leaves in the time machine, it rocks the building so a brick falls off the cieling and crushes Kurisu's face.
The show's "logic" with heavy quotation marks, here is that if knocked out Kurisu looks the same as dead Kurisu then the timeline will not reconstruct. Ok maybe it won't but I'd say Kurisu would still die because she's fated to die here? However even the show's explanation does not work because the timeline does reconstruct, it reconstructs into a timeline where the harem is complete and Okabe can hook up with any girl he wants. So how exactly is this ending supposed to work?
BONUS, Okabe is fucking dumb
They have a TIME MACHINE so you'd think they have all the time in the world to prepare for this "failure is not an option" second attempt right? Yet he still fucked it up, why not go get some fucking prop blood? Why would you just decide to use a glowstick you have on hand? Where's the urgency coming from? Also how was he going to deal with Kurisu's dad? Knock him out with the stun gun? How would he drag his fat ass out of the way? Why doesn't he wear some body armor so he can fight him off with no risk to himself?
Even when all have gone to shit, he somehow still picks the worst course of action, Seppuku. This is dangerous shit because if you damage your intestines, your shit can leak out and you'd be ultra infected. Clearly the best course of action is to take your lab coat off, wrap it around your arm so you can fight this guy with a knife, but you wouldn't just go actually fight, use your phone and threaten him that you've already called the police. And when you need read blood, don't stab yourself in the belly that's stupid! slit your wrist or something so you can easily close the wound and there's minimal risk of infection, Jesus... how dumb can this guy be....
How am I supposed to be emotionally invested in something this dumb? People keep telling me oh I like the show because of the character and emotions, na I just can't have any of those emotions because they're too dumb.
What was the message of this show?
Again people keep saying oh it's not about the logic or time travel, it's the emotions, ok what are those supposed emotions? Let's think about this.
First half of the show, Okabe somehow gets surrounded by all these incredibly beautiful waifus even though he's really got no likable traits, this is not romantic at all because it's clearly wish fulfillment, there is no chemistry, no personality reasons why any of these girls would be constantly stick around with Okabe.
But the real problem comes in with the second half, basically what happens here is Mayurin is fated to die, and Okabe has to ask each of his other harem girls to sacrifice something to save Mayurin.
Faris is asked to sacrifice her dad, I mean sure Faris knows Mayurin, but they're just normal friends, is this something you would do? have your dad die so your friend can escape her fate to die? Again don't bring up the "original timeline" argument here because the "steins gate" timeline is also not the original. From Faris's perspective, her dad has always been alive, and now she has kill him for Okabe, is this fair? Should you ask Faris to do this for you if you're Okabe?
Next is Ruka, Okabe asks her to basically transgender into a man, again is this something you should ask your friend to do for you? Especially if they're in love with you but you're telling them hey, do me a favor and become a man, and I'm not into men btw. Okabe is such a scumbag.
Then we have Suzuha, she had to go back one way into the past, not the worst prospect but still, Okabe is responsible for sending most of these D-mails and getting into this sticky situation. Instead of Okabe having to do some sacrifice, it's the harem girls throwing themselves onto the grenade to save Okabe. How is this supposed to invoke any emotion other than disgust?
Last we have Moeka and Kurisu, they both just die so Okabe can get Mayurin, does this seem fair to you? Remember these two girls at this point have only known Okabe and Mayurin for 2 weeks, and they're asked to trade their lives, both of them, for Okabe's friend's life. This is just incredibly selfish man.
I really think that if the show ended here, with depressed Okabe, it would be way better, and the show would have some deeper meaning about responsibility and loss. But it can't end here because fuck themes, we want wish fulfillment!
Future Okabe deus ex machina shows up and gives present Okabe all he needs to also bring Kurisu back to life, remember how Okabe keeps telling others they should sacrifice their lives because that's the original timeline? Now fuck all that because Okabe wants some wish fulfillment, he wants all 5 harem girls, especialyl his favorite Kurisu, and that's exactly what he gets.
Not only is this appended ending bad, it's not even accomplished by some kind of character development for Okabe, he learns nothing, he's not even going to bother stopping WWIII, the only reason he agrees to go with it, is because he can get Kurisu back, he only cares about saving his waifu. You might think ok future Okabe is still Okabe, he's developed enough to come up with the plan to encourage his past self right? Yea but we don't see that development, so future Okabe is basically another character that just appears and solves the problem for present Okabe who is too much of a douchbag to save himself.
So what was the message?
no need to improve yourself, beautiful girls will just randomly fall for you
real scientists don't know shit, you're the real expert
take credit for your friend's inventions, he won't mind
if you fuck up, ask your friends to wipe your ass for you
you're the most important person in the world, other people's struggles aren't struggles, only yours is real struggle
when everything fails, just give up and wait for your future self badass to show up in a time machine to save you
I thank God every day for not making me this miserable ππ½
@Mando727 yeah, this pathetic lowlife has so much inner turmoil that he actually felt compelled to make a second thread spewing more long-winded nonsense, all because a show is highly rated LOL.
While I think some of the points you brought up are fair, I think others are already explained in the show, and others you're just wrong about.
I tried to cover all of your points, but bear in mind it's been a bit since I last saw the show so I may not remember everything clearly.
The time leap device's 48-hour limitation is so dumb [...] they probably forgot that if you use this device once, your brain state of your past self is updated, meaning you cannot use it again repeatedly. For example if you start at 0 hour, then at 96 hour, you travel back to hour 48, this makes sense. But now your brain state is equivalent to hour 96, meaning you will now be too different from hour 0 to travel back again to hour 0.
This is a plot device, it's not really a plot hole. There are many other ways to interpret this restriction other than what you assumed, for example if you travel back 48 hours your brain gets the memories from the future and then "adapts" or "adjusts" to them, allowing you to travel back again.
The restriction isn't further explained because it doesn't need to, and you're making some very heavy assumptions about how all of this works by saying this is a plot hole.
They could've just said it's 48 hours only without explaining why, yet they have to come up with a dumb explanation that contradicts the rest of the story.
I disagree with this. The show does put a lot of effort into credible pseudo-science, coming up with a rule like this and not having a reasonable explanation for it would not be in the spirit of the show. Especially since there's no limit for how far d-mails can travel.
Suzuha traveling to 1975 did not trigger a reconstruction
Suzuha was always going to travel to 1975. That was already part of the worldlines 0.57, 0.52, 0.45 and 0.40. That is why Okabe and Kurisu were able to obtain the IBN 5100 in like episode 4. Her not traveling is what shifted the worldline to 0.33.
Why doesn't Suzuha just tell Mr.Braun to send the letter earlier [...] I know why, because the time travel model of this show is so dumb it can't handle paradoxes like this.
I don't see how this is a plot hole. This decision is totally in Suzuha's character. She trusts Okabe and knows he is able to fix things, so maybe she didn't want to risk sending it earlier and having Suzuha read it, moving the world line unpredictably.
Plus it wouldn't even be a paradox it would just move the worldline.
The entire Suzuha event does not follow the show's time travel model
As I explained earlier Suzuha time traveling was already part of the established world line. Her traveling was not a "no reconstruction" time travel event because the worldline was already build on her traveling.
Which, to be fair, would mean that this is a closed time loop, but this wouldn't be the first one of its kind in the Steins;Gate universe. I think there's a closed time loop that happens in Linear Bounded Phenogram, and from what I can recall (I might be wrong!) the way closed time loops work in this universe is not by having them interwoven in the chain of events, but by having an initial trigger event from a specific wordline.
For example: Suzuha goes back to 1975 => worldline shifts to 0.57, a worldline built upon Suzuha's arrival in the past, but which is still in attractor alpha => future Suzuha travels again to prevent war
I think the pin badges in attractor alpha are also part of a closed time loop.
Suzuha kept looking at the divergence meter [...] Is she dumb?
I don't even know what to comment on this. Like genuinely. If your reaction to this is "Is she dumb?" then you are unable to detach the writers who wrote the story from the characters themselves and view them as human and you probably also missed the point of the whole show.
Okabe would have failed to undo the D-mails if not for deus ex machina Is he fucking dumb as well?
Yeah, he is. That's the point. I don't see how this is a plot hole though.
so really Okabe was fucked, thankfully the plot saves him by suddenly inventing a rule that if you just shake them hard enough, they can somehow remember the things they have no business remembering.
This is something that rubbed me off the wrong way the first time I watched the show as well. And even though I don't mind it as much now, I still think the writers could have come up with a different idea for this, and kept the whole 'memories from another timeline' thing as dreams.
I think Luka gets full recollection as well at some point but I'm not sure if it happened in the anime, in the VN, or in a spin-off VN.
But I'll give you this one, good nitpick π
Still not a plot hole though, this is a narrative device that has rules and is always used in a consistent manner without breaking said rules, no matter how much one might dislike them.
Okabe proves he's stupid once again with Ruka
Yeah, again, he's stupid. How is this a plot hole?
So Okabe is going to use the "original timeline" argument when it suits him, and ignore it when it does not suit him?
What?
Mayuri was going to die, of course he would do whatever it took to save her.
The IBN 5100 plot device is dumb [...] The idea that there's a program written for an old computer, so you have to get that computer to run the program, is incredibly stupid.
This is a dumb nitpick, I don't even have the energy to respond to this so instead I'm going to say: Whatever makes you happy to complain about π
Still, I don't see how this is a plot hole. I've attached an image at the end of the reply to help you.
Okabe claims he is fated to not get the IBN5100 without any evidence
FINALLY SOMETHING GOOD! This is true. This is kind of glossed over in the anime, but in the visual novel he tries to steal the IBN 5100 from the coin locker two times and both times he is spotted by police and taken into custody, which is how he comes to that conclusion.
Kurisu's dad is also a dumbass
Aren't most real people dumbasses as well? How can you look at a fictional character that has already been characterized as being emotionally unstable, see him make mistakes or be dumb, and your first instinct is "man these writers bro really they're really bad bro this is literally for plot convenience at this point". π
Newsflash, real people are dumbasses too.
While I can understand the feeling, for example in some shows you can tell when characters make certain out-of-character decisions for plot convenience, and it breaks the immersion, in this case Nakabachi's actions are entirely in-character and the show writers did an incredibly good job with characterizing him and his instability.
There can't possibly be a WWIII over time machines
You're wrong, moving on.
You know, I started this reply off by wanting to seriously cover all of the points that you made, but the more I read through this the more I see that you completely misunderstood and didn't get the point of show, and everything that you are bringing up are just nitpicks.
Okabe going back in time but doesn't meet himself
Second good point you have made so far. This is explained in the visual novel. Here's a reddit comment that explains it.
And now for the grand finally, the biggest plot hole of them all [...] Does this mean that if they go to that first timeline where Moeka shoots Mayurin, switch out her real bullet with red paintball, it would save Mayurin's life? This is just beyond stupid, anybody with a shred of common sense would think you cannot escape your fate by fainting death?
The attractor field beta doesn't converge on Kurisu's death, it converges on Okabe seeing Kurisu dead and (potentially) sending a d-mail.
Some deaths are converged upon at an attractor field level (Mayuri in α), some are converged upon for a specific worldline range (Moeka and Braun in <= 0.52 but not in 0.57) and others aren't converged upon at all.
This is literally explained in the show, is it not? Or is it just in the VN and I forgot?
BONUS, Okabe is fucking dumb
π
How am I supposed to be emotionally invested in something this dumb? People keep telling me oh I like the show because of the character and emotions, na I just can't have any of those emotions because they're too dumb.
I can kinda see where you're coming from. When I first watched the show I got upset with Okabe's repeated decisions to try to solve everything by himself before asking for help from Kurisu to the point where I started disliking the show. On a second rewatch though, I didn't have that problem anymore. Okabe is a really complex character who evolves a lot throughout the show, and seeing him progress is a big part of what I think makes the show great.
TL;DR None of these are actual plot holes, they're just dumb nitpicks and complaints from someone who doesn't understand/didn't like the show.
I'm not saying Steins;Gate doesn't have any plot holes (I can think of one right now), I'm just saying nothing you talked about is a plot hole.
I don't mean to downplay your experience or opinions on the show, but if you disliked it please make it clear in your post that you are listing reasons for disliking it, and not "plot holes".
While I think some of the points you brought up are fair, I think others are already explained in the show, and others you're just wrong about.
I tried to cover all of your points, but bear in mind it's been a bit since I last saw the show so I may not remember everything clearly.
The time leap device's 48-hour limitation is so dumb [...] they probably forgot that if you use this device once, your brain state of your past self is updated, meaning you cannot use it again repeatedly. For example if you start at 0 hour, then at 96 hour, you travel back to hour 48, this makes sense. But now your brain state is equivalent to hour 96, meaning you will now be too different from hour 0 to travel back again to hour 0.
This is a plot device, it's not really a plot hole. There are many other ways to interpret this restriction other than what you assumed, for example if you travel back 48 hours your brain gets the memories from the future and then "adapts" or "adjusts" to them, allowing you to travel back again.
The restriction isn't further explained because it doesn't need to, and you're making some very heavy assumptions about how all of this works by saying this is a plot hole.
They could've just said it's 48 hours only without explaining why, yet they have to come up with a dumb explanation that contradicts the rest of the story.
I disagree with this. The show does put a lot of effort into credible pseudo-science, coming up with a rule like this and not having a reasonable explanation for it would not be in the spirit of the show. Especially since there's no limit for how far d-mails can travel.
Suzuha traveling to 1975 did not trigger a reconstruction
Suzuha was always going to travel to 1975. That was already part of the worldlines 0.57, 0.52, 0.45 and 0.40. That is why Okabe and Kurisu were able to obtain the IBN 5100 in like episode 4. Her not traveling is what shifted the worldline to 0.33.
Why doesn't Suzuha just tell Mr.Braun to send the letter earlier [...] I know why, because the time travel model of this show is so dumb it can't handle paradoxes like this.
I don't see how this is a plot hole. This decision is totally in Suzuha's character. She trusts Okabe and knows he is able to fix things, so maybe she didn't want to risk sending it earlier and having Suzuha read it, moving the world line unpredictably.
Plus it wouldn't even be a paradox it would just move the worldline.
The entire Suzuha event does not follow the show's time travel model
As I explained earlier Suzuha time traveling was already part of the established world line. Her traveling was not a "no reconstruction" time travel event because the worldline was already build on her traveling.
Which, to be fair, would mean that this is a closed time loop, but this wouldn't be the first one of its kind in the Steins;Gate universe. I think there's a closed time loop that happens in Linear Bounded Phenogram, and from what I can recall (I might be wrong!) the way closed time loops work in this universe is not by having them interwoven in the chain of events, but by having an initial trigger event from a specific wordline.
For example: Suzuha goes back to 1975 => worldline shifts to 0.57, a worldline built upon Suzuha's arrival in the past, but which is still in attractor alpha => future Suzuha travels again to prevent war
I think the pin badges in attractor alpha are also part of a closed time loop.
Suzuha kept looking at the divergence meter [...] Is she dumb?
I don't even know what to comment on this. Like genuinely. If your reaction to this is "Is she dumb?" then you are unable to detach the writers who wrote the story from the characters themselves and view them as human and you probably also missed the point of the whole show.
Okabe would have failed to undo the D-mails if not for deus ex machina Is he fucking dumb as well?
Yeah, he is. That's the point. I don't see how this is a plot hole though.
so really Okabe was fucked, thankfully the plot saves him by suddenly inventing a rule that if you just shake them hard enough, they can somehow remember the things they have no business remembering.
This is something that rubbed me off the wrong way the first time I watched the show as well. And even though I don't mind it as much now, I still think the writers could have come up with a different idea for this, and kept the whole 'memories from another timeline' thing as dreams.
I think Luka gets full recollection as well at some point but I'm not sure if it happened in the anime, in the VN, or in a spin-off VN.
But I'll give you this one, good nitpick π
Still not a plot hole though, this is a narrative device that has rules and is always used in a consistent manner without breaking said rules, no matter how much one might dislike them.
Okabe proves he's stupid once again with Ruka
Yeah, again, he's stupid. How is this a plot hole?
So Okabe is going to use the "original timeline" argument when it suits him, and ignore it when it does not suit him?
What?
Mayuri was going to die, of course he would do whatever it took to save her.
The IBN 5100 plot device is dumb [...] The idea that there's a program written for an old computer, so you have to get that computer to run the program, is incredibly stupid.
This is a dumb nitpick, I don't even have the energy to respond to this so instead I'm going to say: Whatever makes you happy to complain about π
Still, I don't see how this is a plot hole. I've attached an image at the end of the reply to help you.
Okabe claims he is fated to not get the IBN5100 without any evidence
FINALLY SOMETHING GOOD! This is true. This is kind of glossed over in the anime, but in the visual novel he tries to steal the IBN 5100 from the coin locker two times and both times he is spotted by police and taken into custody, which is how he comes to that conclusion.
Kurisu's dad is also a dumbass
Aren't most real people dumbasses as well? How can you look at a fictional character that has already been characterized as being emotionally unstable, see him make mistakes or be dumb, and your first instinct is "man these writers bro really they're really bad bro this is literally for plot convenience at this point". π
Newsflash, real people are dumbasses too.
While I can understand the feeling, for example in some shows you can tell when characters make certain out-of-character decisions for plot convenience, and it breaks the immersion, in this case Nakabachi's actions are entirely in-character and the show writers did an incredibly good job with characterizing him and his instability.
There can't possibly be a WWIII over time machines
You're wrong, moving on.
You know, I started this reply off by wanting to seriously cover all of the points that you made, but the more I read through this the more I see that you completely misunderstood and didn't get the point of show, and everything that you are bringing up are just nitpicks.
Okabe going back in time but doesn't meet himself
Second good point you have made so far. This is explained in the visual novel. Here's a reddit comment that explains it.
And now for the grand finally, the biggest plot hole of them all [...] Does this mean that if they go to that first timeline where Moeka shoots Mayurin, switch out her real bullet with red paintball, it would save Mayurin's life? This is just beyond stupid, anybody with a shred of common sense would think you cannot escape your fate by fainting death?
The attractor field beta doesn't converge on Kurisu's death, it converges on Okabe seeing Kurisu dead and (potentially) sending a d-mail.
Some deaths are converged upon at an attractor field level (Mayuri in α), some are converged upon for a specific worldline range (Moeka and Braun in <= 0.52 but not in 0.57) and others aren't converged upon at all.
This is literally explained in the show, is it not? Or is it just in the VN and I forgot?
BONUS, Okabe is fucking dumb
π
How am I supposed to be emotionally invested in something this dumb? People keep telling me oh I like the show because of the character and emotions, na I just can't have any of those emotions because they're too dumb.
I can kinda see where you're coming from. When I first watched the show I got upset with Okabe's repeated decisions to try to solve everything by himself before asking for help from Kurisu to the point where I started disliking the show. On a second rewatch though, I didn't have that problem anymore. Okabe is a really complex character who evolves a lot throughout the show, and seeing him progress is a big part of what I think makes the show great.
TL;DR None of these are actual plot holes, they're just dumb nitpicks and complaints from someone who doesn't understand/didn't like the show.
I'm not saying Steins;Gate doesn't have any plot holes (I can think of one right now), I'm just saying nothing you talked about is a plot hole.
I don't mean to downplay your experience or opinions on the show, but if you disliked it please make it clear in your post that you are listing reasons for disliking it, and not "plot holes".
If I needed any more proof that you’re just trying to get a rise out of people, I don’t anymore!
Complaining that many things are “so dumb” in a show about time traveling with a microwave is pretty silly by itself.
You’re certainly in the minority if you think Okabe has no likable traits (an entirely subjective complaint, mind you), and many would disagree with your assertion that he has no chemistry with any of the girls, or that none of them should want to be around him. Just because you (say you) feel that way doesn’t mean that this would be the case for everyone.
Asserting that Okabe’s D-mails are responsible for SERN’s global takeover demonstrates a misunderstanding of the plot. At least in the Beta Attractor Field, Kurisu’s thesis alone is sufficient to lead to the invention of SERN’s time machine, and if it ends up in the wrong hands (after Nakabachi’s defection) that is the catalyst for the dystopian future, whether or not Okabe invents the PhoneWave/time leap machine. If you don’t believe me, check the wiki.
Soon as I saw you say “people with reading Steiner are unable to use time machines,” I knew you were trolling, making shit up, or are legitimately uninformed.
Per the wiki (https://steins-gate.fandom.com/wiki/Reading_Steiner):
“Physical time travellers are another such case where memories are retained, but the specific Reading Steiner sensation is not felt. This is because objects moving between world lines, like D-Mails or time machines, are not subject to the reconstruction that their arrival triggers.”
If you have a problem with this, I’d love to hear a mechanistic (not logical: normal logic doesn’t apply to things like this) explanation as to why it’s objectively wrong or a bad narrative choice. Otherwise, you might just not be able to suspend disbelief enough for sci-fi shows if something like that actually bothers you enough to get online and stir up arguments over it.
So many of your critiques are just complaints that characters don’t act rationally or make (what you believe to be) ideal choices, or otherwise don’t meet your arbitrary behavior standards. Putting aside the fact that more and less intelligent people act sub-optimally all the time, this preoccupation with things not fitting your preferences is fine, just like everyone disagreeing or calling your critiques stupid is also fine.
This contrarian diatribe of yours isn’t only insanely nitpicky and critically immature, but is objectively wrong in several instances.
Seems like a ragebait by someone who clearly does not know how to read. Also, play the damn game if you want detailed explanations to everything that the anime rushes.
Jesus christ, you again, my guy, we get it, you don't like Steins;Gate so just let it go and chill the fuck out. There is another issue in episode 17, which the anime failed to explain too, which was pointed out by Resus in the episode 17 thread. This was addressed in the VN, but not in the anime, so yeah, the anime has more issues than the VN. The VN at least tries to explain plenty of the issues that the anime missed due to time constraints, it only has 24 episodes for fucks sake, so things are obviously left out, and plenty of the things you are complaining about are already explained in the VN.
As I already said in the other thread, this anime isn't perfect, but you should stop nitpicking on everything. The moment a banana turned into jelly is the moment you needed to stop using hardcore logic, and at this point I'm starting to believe that you are actually a troll, I gave you the benefit of the doubt in the other thread, but in this one I'm starting to believe that you are a troll, which makes sense, I shouldn't have expected much from an alt account.
I at least agree with your last line, it's indeed an amazing show, so yeah, 10/10.
Just an avid anime watcher of 20 years, not much else I could say about myself (that I don't want to reveal, of course, just ask if you wanna know more!)
"So...look up, face forward, toward your chosen horizon and just...walk on." - Noah, Xenoblade Chronicles 3
I agree with some of the points. However, I feel like you're just nitpicking rather than giving a fair evaluation. They are just weird (or dumb), they aren't plot holes. Just look it up in the dictionary, man.
The anime adaptation also left many things unexplained compared to the VN. It's not perfect.
Weird how you didn’t mention the "banana gel". You’re fine with this but not with other stuff LMAO.
1096bimu said: Oh man, I thought the first half was rough, the second half is where it gets serious. Not only is the entire story dependent on a couple serious plot holes, the message of the show is also extremely questionable. Let's first go over the plot holes.
The time leap device's 48-hour limitation is so dumb
The premise is since your brain state constantly evolves over time, there is a limit on how far back you can travel with the time leap device, since the difference in your brain state can't be too great. However they probably forgot that if you use this device once, your brain state of your past self is updated, meaning you cannot use it again repeatedly. For example if you start at 0 hour, then at 96 hour, you travel back to hour 48, this makes sense. But now your brain state is equivalent to hour 96, meaning you will now be too different from hour 0 to travel back again to hour 0. In fact this machine should be one time use only because as time passes after you travel to hour 48, your brain state continues to evolve which pushes forward the latest time you can travel back to.
They could've just said it's 48 hours only without explaining why, yet they have to come up with a dumb explanation that contradicts the rest of the story.
Suzuha traveling to 1975 did not trigger a reconstruction
So you're telling me this giant time machine being brought back to 1975 somehow made absolutely no difference, SERN did not get hold of the time machine, Suzuha living out her life for decades, getting into contact with Mr.Braun all made absolutely no difference, not even to Mr.Braun?
And yet Ruka buying a lottery ticket that doesn't win, is such a huge difference that the timeline had to reconstruct? What sense does that make?
Why doesn't Suzuha just tell Mr.Braun to send the letter earlier
She's in the past, she can leave a letter to be sent at any time in the future, why not have it send before her past self leaves from the future? I know why, because the time travel model of this show is so dumb it can't handle paradoxes like this.
The entire Suzuha event does not follow the show's time travel model
Think about a simple "no reconstruction" time travel event, only AFTER they send the test D-mail to the past, are they able to see that D-mail received in their phone, they do not remember receiving it, and they could not have seen the messages before sending them.
In this case, Suzuha is the D-mail, meaning there's no way anybody can remember meeting Suzuha in the past, including Mr.Braun. They could simply discover that Suzuha has been living somewhere, this whole time, after her time machine departed.
Suzuha kept looking at the divergence meter
Is she dumb? Does she not understand that by the rules of the show, nobody will ever be able to see the divergence meter change except for Okabe. This device effectively only shows a fixed number at all times, for everyone else.
Okabe would have failed to undo the D-mails if not for deus ex machina
Okabe's plan to undo Faris's D-mail is to simply ask her what mail did she send, is he fucking dumb as well? By the rules of the show so far, Faris cannot possibly remember what D-mail was sent. Instead what he should ask her, is what random spam mail did she or her parents receive that made a big impact on their lives.
Turns out even that question would not have worked because Faris doesn't know about her dad receiving it, so really Okabe was fucked, thankfully the plot saves him by suddenly inventing a rule that if you just shake them hard enough, they can somehow remember the things they have no business remembering.
Okabe proves he's stupid once again with Ruka
Okabe somehow still doesn't understand that from Ruka's perspective, she's always been a girl, she is actually a girl, that's all there is to it. There is no distinction between "actual" or "real" and "fake" or "alternative" time lines, every time line is equally "actual", the only difference is Okabe prefers some of them over others. There is zero concern for example over the fact that Kurisu is "actually" dead in the "actual" timeline, he's still gonna change the timeline to bring her back isn't he?
So Okabe is going to use the "original timeline" argument when it suits him, and ignore it when it does not suit him?
The IBN 5100 plot device is dumb
We should get this out of the way by now, the idea that there's a program written for an old computer, so you have to get that computer to run the program, is incredibly stupid. Clearly whoever came up with this has zero knowledge of how computers work. You can play NES games without an actual NES duh? In fact you can reverse engineer old programs and makes them run on any other computer.
Once again this should not have been a serious plot hole, it's just a McGuffin, but the unnecessary dumb explanation made it so much worse. Why not just say this is a PC used in a SERN lab and there's a floppy disk in it with the program they need? Or maybe say it's a custom architecture not used in any commercial device so nobody knows what the instruction set is? Nope, they gotta go with the "must get an NES to run my NES game" plot device oh god...
Okabe claims he is fated to not get the IBN5100 without any evidence
Obviously we know he's telling the truth, because he speaks for the author and the author is saying, he's fated to not get it, even though he hasn't tried to get it since undoing the D-mails. Things are just happening without any reason or buildup.
Kurisu's dad is also a dumbass
He apparently thinks that the best way to advance his academic career, is to kill his 18yo daughter and publish this one paper she wrote...
How about keeping her alive so she can write more papers for you to publish? How about don't simply stab her with a knife, getting blood all over yourself? Fucking anything but this incredibly dumb plan? I know he's not as smart as Kurisu but he's still a serious scientist isn't he? Here he's practically a braindead caveman for the convenience of the plot.
There can't possibly be a WWIII over time machines
Someone clearly did not think this through, because according to the rules of the show, people without Reading Steiner are unable to use time machines. Think about this from the perspective of any other character in the show, the ONLY instance where they successfully use a time machine, is in one of those "no reconstruction" uses, which basically equates to wasted usage. If you try to use a time machine to make a substantial change, the timeline will reconstruct and you will not remember having used it.
So imagine if you are a political leader evaluating what you can use the time machine for, you will soon realize that all time travel attempts have failed to make any difference, because that's only timeline your consciousness can end up on.
In fact, for this very reason, SERN could not have ruled the world with their time machine, because if they have a time machine to use, they will only find out that it is totally useless.
Okabe going back in time but doesn't meet himself
After Okabe went back in the time machine, the timeline did not reconstruct, so when he goes back a second time, he should be able to meet 2 other versions of himself in the past but he doesn't, because the story can't work if he does.
Once again there would've been an easy solution to this, just remove the first time, that time basically served no purpose except to tells us that Kurisu at this point is fated to die and can't be saved. But we don't need a demonstration, remember when the author simply pulls out of his ass that Okabe is fated to not get the IBN5100? Why not just do the same thing here? Have future Okabe tell him Kurisu can't be saved, no need for any proofs!
And now for the grand finally, the biggest plot hole of them all
Turns out the secret trick to saving someone who is fated to die, is to simply knock them out and have someone discover the "body" , surely this will fool the fabric of the universe and stop it from killing this person.
Does this mean that if they go to that first timeline where Moeka shoots Mayurin, switch out her real bullet with red paintball, it would save Mayurin's life? This is just beyond stupid, anybody with a shred of common sense would think you cannot escape your fate by fainting death?
Unless the show is implying that Okabe is some kind of a Suzumiya Haruhi type of figure, so as long as he thinks someone is dead, that's good enough. But even that won't work because Okabe is doing this fake death thing himself! So he knows! What should probably happen is when he leaves in the time machine, it rocks the building so a brick falls off the cieling and crushes Kurisu's face.
The show's "logic" with heavy quotation marks, here is that if knocked out Kurisu looks the same as dead Kurisu then the timeline will not reconstruct. Ok maybe it won't but I'd say Kurisu would still die because she's fated to die here? However even the show's explanation does not work because the timeline does reconstruct, it reconstructs into a timeline where the harem is complete and Okabe can hook up with any girl he wants. So how exactly is this ending supposed to work?
BONUS, Okabe is fucking dumb
They have a TIME MACHINE so you'd think they have all the time in the world to prepare for this "failure is not an option" second attempt right? Yet he still fucked it up, why not go get some fucking prop blood? Why would you just decide to use a glowstick you have on hand? Where's the urgency coming from? Also how was he going to deal with Kurisu's dad? Knock him out with the stun gun? How would he drag his fat ass out of the way? Why doesn't he wear some body armor so he can fight him off with no risk to himself?
Even when all have gone to shit, he somehow still picks the worst course of action, Seppuku. This is dangerous shit because if you damage your intestines, your shit can leak out and you'd be ultra infected. Clearly the best course of action is to take your lab coat off, wrap it around your arm so you can fight this guy with a knife, but you wouldn't just go actually fight, use your phone and threaten him that you've already called the police. And when you need read blood, don't stab yourself in the belly that's stupid! slit your wrist or something so you can easily close the wound and there's minimal risk of infection, Jesus... how dumb can this guy be....
How am I supposed to be emotionally invested in something this dumb? People keep telling me oh I like the show because of the character and emotions, na I just can't have any of those emotions because they're too dumb.
What was the message of this show?
Again people keep saying oh it's not about the logic or time travel, it's the emotions, ok what are those supposed emotions? Let's think about this.
First half of the show, Okabe somehow gets surrounded by all these incredibly beautiful waifus even though he's really got no likable traits, this is not romantic at all because it's clearly wish fulfillment, there is no chemistry, no personality reasons why any of these girls would be constantly stick around with Okabe.
But the real problem comes in with the second half, basically what happens here is Mayurin is fated to die, and Okabe has to ask each of his other harem girls to sacrifice something to save Mayurin.
Faris is asked to sacrifice her dad, I mean sure Faris knows Mayurin, but they're just normal friends, is this something you would do? have your dad die so your friend can escape her fate to die? Again don't bring up the "original timeline" argument here because the "steins gate" timeline is also not the original. From Faris's perspective, her dad has always been alive, and now she has kill him for Okabe, is this fair? Should you ask Faris to do this for you if you're Okabe?
Next is Ruka, Okabe asks her to basically transgender into a man, again is this something you should ask your friend to do for you? Especially if they're in love with you but you're telling them hey, do me a favor and become a man, and I'm not into men btw. Okabe is such a scumbag.
Then we have Suzuha, she had to go back one way into the past, not the worst prospect but still, Okabe is responsible for sending most of these D-mails and getting into this sticky situation. Instead of Okabe having to do some sacrifice, it's the harem girls throwing themselves onto the grenade to save Okabe. How is this supposed to invoke any emotion other than disgust?
Last we have Moeka and Kurisu, they both just die so Okabe can get Mayurin, does this seem fair to you? Remember these two girls at this point have only known Okabe and Mayurin for 2 weeks, and they're asked to trade their lives, both of them, for Okabe's friend's life. This is just incredibly selfish man.
I really think that if the show ended here, with depressed Okabe, it would be way better, and the show would have some deeper meaning about responsibility and loss. But it can't end here because fuck themes, we want wish fulfillment!
Future Okabe deus ex machina shows up and gives present Okabe all he needs to also bring Kurisu back to life, remember how Okabe keeps telling others they should sacrifice their lives because that's the original timeline? Now fuck all that because Okabe wants some wish fulfillment, he wants all 5 harem girls, especialyl his favorite Kurisu, and that's exactly what he gets.
Not only is this appended ending bad, it's not even accomplished by some kind of character development for Okabe, he learns nothing, he's not even going to bother stopping WWIII, the only reason he agrees to go with it, is because he can get Kurisu back, he only cares about saving his waifu. You might think ok future Okabe is still Okabe, he's developed enough to come up with the plan to encourage his past self right? Yea but we don't see that development, so future Okabe is basically another character that just appears and solves the problem for present Okabe who is too much of a douchbag to save himself.
So what was the message?
no need to improve yourself, beautiful girls will just randomly fall for you
real scientists don't know shit, you're the real expert
take credit for your friend's inventions, he won't mind
if you fuck up, ask your friends to wipe your ass for you
you're the most important person in the world, other people's struggles aren't struggles, only yours is real struggle
when everything fails, just give up and wait for your future self badass to show up in a time machine to save you
Amazing show, 10/10
You’re looking way to much for realism when it obviously isn’t the point of the show, or the point of any fictional story. What matters is the storytelling, and it was pretty good. 0/10 rage baitπ₯
In the “final plot hole” this is just a case of you completely misunderstanding that part of the plot. Her death being faked isn’t what helps, it’s that past him needs to think she died so that he goes along the same path he did previously because he needs to retain all of the knowledge he had and spend the weeks we did with her. But you seem like a nutcase.
No show specially when it's time related isn't without some plot holes.but people here are way too defensive about the critics you shared
@Zayeager The problem is this guy is obviously being a pedantic troll, posting from an alt account and making not one but TWO whole threads just to write a novel-length dissertation about a show he didn't even like, that's why people are clowning on him
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