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5 hours ago

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Oct 2009
3940
Reply to Deathko
LMAO, IQ basically measures your ability to solve puzzles and play Tetris. Believing it accurately measures one's intelligence, or making a correlation between IQ and business success/income, like @Auron_ is doing is pseudoscience. Like, astrology-level pseudoscience. I consistently score quite high on IQ tests since my youngest age, and trust me, you do not want my income, or to give me the keys of your country. And I wouldn't want the jobs that provide a high income, or the keys of any country either...

While it's generally accepted that really low IQ is a somewhat decent predictor of low income, there is much debate regarding the use of high IQ as a predictor of high income or financial success, and I'd eat my hat if there was a study somewhere proving that high IQ (or financial success) leads to more competent gestion of a country. The whole "high IQ = successful people = better working society" is bullshit dangerous eugenist crap that leads to creating permits for procreation based on IQ and physical tests to create a super race. And while I'm not totally, completely, 100% against it from a cold, utilitarian PoV if someone can bring me overwhelming evidence that it will lead to a better world, the evidence is simply not there. Because while high IQ = successful individual in society = good leader that works towards a better society is like, two leaps of faith, there is more and more evidence than sociopathic traits are more common at the top of the food chain in capitalist societies, or in some high income jobs.

So by all means, if you want leaders that have no empathy, a propension for risky behavior, and a chronic inability to assume responsibility for their own mistakes (all sociopathic traits), extrapolate their intelligence and qualities as leaders from their financial success. Or if you want leaders that can wreck your ass at Tetris, give'em an IQ test with a minimum requirement to pass. Will they be BETTER leaders? I'll let you be the judge, but just remember there were probably more "intelligent" leaders than "dumb" leaders through history, and it got us exactly where we're at rn. As the philosopher would say, "the best of all possible worlds"...
@Deathko Every demographic has its bad apples but I think OP's point is that the propensity for error is lower w/ individuals who score high in IQ than those who don't. People w/ high IQ are the ones driving STEM and technological advancement at the end of the day.

5 hours ago

Offline
Mar 2008
49490
Reply to lucjan
@Deathko Every demographic has its bad apples but I think OP's point is that the propensity for error is lower w/ individuals who score high in IQ than those who don't. People w/ high IQ are the ones driving STEM and technological advancement at the end of the day.
@lucjan
It's still bullshit. Very low IQ can be useful but high isn't. When someone has a higher IQ they are not necessarily less likely to have emotionally driven biases but what makes it worse is they are better at rationalizing their views even in face of being proven wrong.


Deathko said:
While it's generally accepted that really low IQ is a somewhat decent predictor of low income, there is much debate regarding the use of high IQ as a predictor of high income or financial success, and I'd eat my hat if there was a study somewhere proving that high IQ (or financial success) leads to more competent gestion of a country. The whole "high IQ = successful people = better working society" is bullshit dangerous eugenist crap that leads to creating permits for procreation based on IQ and physical tests to create a super race. And while I'm not totally, completely, 100% against it from a cold, utilitarian PoV if someone can bring me overwhelming evidence that it will lead to a better world, the evidence is simply not there. Because while high IQ = successful individual in society = good leader that works towards a better society is like, two leaps of faith, there is more and more evidence than sociopathic traits are more common at the top of the food chain in capitalist societies, or in some high income jobs.

I recall reading someone who joined MENSA left it tired of the White supremacist eugenicists in it being morons.
traed5 hours ago
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5 hours ago

Offline
Jul 2015
12718
Reply to lucjan
@Deathko Every demographic has its bad apples but I think OP's point is that the propensity for error is lower w/ individuals who score high in IQ than those who don't. People w/ high IQ are the ones driving STEM and technological advancement at the end of the day.
@lucjan Are political leaders supposed to solve engineering problems or mathematical equations tho?

Leaders have advisors since the dawn of time. A president who has a high IQ might solve a really complex problem that somehow aligns with his specific competences in one year, where a president who's a great leader will delegate to 5 specialists and get it fixed in 3 months, in any domain. A leader is the one who takes input from everywhere and gives a final, educated decision, not necessarily the most qualified for every job out there.

The way I see it, someone who runs a government should be good at running a government. Diplomacy, decision-making, reaching a consensus, the interest of its nation/its people at heart etc. I don't see what one's ability to discern visual patterns has to do with it.


@traed Not surprised. But... it's "eugenicist" and not "eugenist" :')? Dammit, english. Everytime I think I'm basically bilingual, reality bitchslaps me like that 😩
Deathko5 hours ago
Prophetess of the Golden Era
4 hours ago
Offline
May 2012
978
The established power does not want this and will do everything to prevent it, leaders are not chosen for their intelligence, they are not chosen at all, it is power, wealth, influence and notoriety and connections with other people in power that transforms a person into a leader and also his/her ability to tell what the people want to hear even if 99% of the things are false promises.
4 hours ago

Offline
Mar 2008
49490
Deathko said:
Not surprised. But... it's "eugenicist" and not "eugenist" :')? Dammit, english. Everytime I think I'm basically bilingual, reality bitchslaps me like that 😩

Yeah English is weird like that. Here is one example of someone scoring high on certain IQ tests reportedly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Langan
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17 minutes ago

Offline
May 2019
2030
Deathko said:
The whole "high IQ = successful people = better working society" is bullshit dangerous eugenist crap that leads to creating permits for procreation based on IQ and physical tests to create a super race. And while I'm not totally, completely, 100% against it from a cold, utilitarian PoV if someone can bring me overwhelming evidence that it will lead to a better world, the evidence is simply not there.

I wouldn't support creating permits for procreation regardless of what the science says about intelligence. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

Also, we know there's environmental determinates of IQ. There's of course the Flynn effect. It has also been estimated that an extra year of schooling causes an increase in IQ of about 1-5 per year. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797618774253

Deathko said:
Believing it accurately measures one's intelligence, or making a correlation between IQ and business success/income, like @Auron_ is doing is pseudoscience. Like, astrology-level pseudoscience.

Unlike astrology, IQ is predictive of the outcome you're talking about. It's also predictive of upward social mobility.
Childhood IQ and achieved education level were significantly and independently associated with upward mobility between the ages of 5 and 49-51 years. Only education was significantly associated (positively) with upward social mobility between 5 and 25 years, and only childhood IQ (again positively) with upward social mobility between 25 and 49-51 years. Childhood IQ was significantly negatively associated with downward social mobility. Adult height, childhood housing conditions, adverse events in childhood and sex were not significant determinants of upward or downward social mobility in this cohort.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/1471-2458-11-895
Deathko said:
While it's generally accepted that really low IQ is a somewhat decent predictor of low income, there is much debate regarding the use of high IQ as a predictor of high income or financial success

The assertion that ability differences no longer matter beyond a certain threshold is inaccurate. Among young adolescents in the top 1% of quantitative reasoning ability, individual differences in general cognitive ability level and in specific cognitive ability pattern (that is, the relationships among an individual’s math, verbal, and spatial abilities) lead to differences in educational, occupational, and creative outcomes decades later.

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2010-26416-002
Deathko said:
Because while high IQ = successful individual in society = good leader that works towards a better society is like, two leaps of faith, there is more and more evidence than sociopathic traits are more common at the top of the food chain in capitalist societies, or in some high income jobs.

IQ is slightly negatively correlated with antisocial personality disorder. People who are both intelligent and sociopathic may draw a lot of attention, but that's not what the typical sociopath is like.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1002/per.2207
12 minutes ago

Online
Aug 2022
2740
If you are okay with every nation on Earth being ruled by Jews and Japanese then yes.

vasipi49469 minutes ago
Mao said:
If you have to shit, shit! If you have to fart, fart!
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