| As far as anime goes, I personally think 99% of censorship is undesirable, the last 1% is censorship by omission of scenes that work better with the omission (for example, lets say a villain gets beheaded, depending on the scene, it might make sense to cut away or it might make sense to show it in detail). One curious case is that of convenient censorship, this is censorship that sort of makes sense in universe, but in many cases can feel "too convenient" or artificial. One example is the "hair bra" trope, whenever you have a girl with long hair, you know that if ever she takes her shirt off, her hair will be magnetically drawn to her nipples, doesn't matter if she is fighting, falling at terminal velocity, spinning at 90 Hz etc. Other examples include the "convenient foreground object" trope, or the "indestructible fabric around the breasts and crotch" trope. Partially I can accept the effort to make the censorship make some sense in-universe, whenever I see the lightsabers and the shadows in broad daylight forms of censorship I get really annoyed that they wanna play this stupid game of including explicit scenes but "pretending to show them". Convenient censorship is more immersive for sure, but in most cases I still find it hard to defend. I don't like this feeling of "predestination" it creates. And artistically speaking, it just looks plain ugly, sometimes you can't even tell what is going on, it's artists butchering their work in the name of compliance. Ultimately I feel like scenes like this go against a foundational principle of art, which is, make it the best it can be. Why are there rimlights everywhere? Why is the contrast always on point? Why do characters do stuff in a cool way when they don't have to? Its because art is an idealized in this way. So you have to ask, is the scene with the convenient censorship or god forbid the lightsabers the best it can be? Does it even deserve to be included? I don't know about the latter, but the former is dubious at best. |
| I think it can be funny sometimes which is why I enjoy this page https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SceneryCensor |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
Reply to Theo1899
I think it can be funny sometimes which is why I enjoy this page
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SceneryCensor
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SceneryCensor
| @Theo1899 Honestly the only time I found it funny was at the start of the simpsons movie (because initially it seems like they are going to do the usual thing but surprisingly, they actually reverse the censor at the end to only show the dick and hide everything else.) |
Oh i absolutely love it, especially when it's used tastefully and very sensually. |
tchitchouan3 hours ago
| Censorship is very bad for your eyes. |
This dance is the pinnacle of human achievement. |
Reply to tchitchouan
Oh i absolutely love it, especially when it's used tastefully and very sensually.
| @tchitchouan That one doesn't look too too bad but still kinda not sold on it tbh. Show the areola at least to show me that you care :) with boob censorship in particular one recurring thought I have is what would happen if they colour the nipples blue or something, would that be allowed? What if they make the areola square or whatever else modification? I wonder if you could do something like that to find another creative way to show it without resorting to hair bra syndrome. |
| Convenient censorship is lame, if things need to get censored then it should be done in a creative and appealing way at least. |
Reply to Zarutaku
Convenient censorship is lame, if things need to get censored then it should be done in a creative and appealing way at least.
| @Zarutaku I think that is what they are trying to do with this sort of thing but when everyone is doing it it ceases to be creative. Tbh, I would prefer a form of censorship where its just super low contrast but visible (e.g. just put like a thick but see through fog in front), so if you pause the frame and squint you could see it but otherwise its not visible. Maybe that would get them in hot water idk but to me at least it would be a clear stance that hey, we're not censoring this cause we want to but cause we have to. edit: and, not to mention, you could probably create a software that would restore the uncensored image by removing the fog. That's my biggest gripe with convenient censorship, its kinda like giving up on the uncensored version, to "uncensor it" you would have to redraw the frame. |
Anjuro2 hours ago
| Unless it's distracting, I don't care. Mosaic blur, white clouds, and black boxes are all terrible. But if the part is hidden or an object looks like it blocking it naturally, then I do not mind at all. |
"Wonder is always difficult until you forgive whoever destroyed your love of surprises" — Edmond Manning  |
| Sometimes it is obnoxious Sometimes it is funny Sometimes it is artistic Sometimes it is just a handy workaround from more ugly censorship required by outdated Japanese law written by Americans after WWII |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
Reply to Kiyomice
Unless it's distracting, I don't care. Mosaic blur, white clouds, and black boxes are all terrible. But if the part is hidden or an object looks like it blocking it naturally, then I do not mind at all.
| @Kiyomice Sometimes it works, my main problem with it honestly is overuse. If it was a stylistic choice I would have no problems with it, but they HAVE to do it, everyone does, and that bothers me, as a viewer and as an artist. |
| Censorship is bad, I wanna see heads roll. |
 |
Reply to Anjuro
@Kiyomice Sometimes it works, my main problem with it honestly is overuse. If it was a stylistic choice I would have no problems with it, but they HAVE to do it, everyone does, and that bothers me, as a viewer and as an artist.
| @Anjuro I don't pay it any mind, character minimum |
"Wonder is always difficult until you forgive whoever destroyed your love of surprises" — Edmond Manning |
Reply to Kiyomice
@Anjuro I don't pay it any mind, character minimum
| @Kiyomice Well I for one do. I imagine an ancient sculptor being transported through time and seeing that apparently in the present our fragile minds can't even handle a bit of nudity or gore, meanwhile our ancestors were telling gruesome raw stories that didn't hide anything and always put the art first. Frankly its disgusting. |
Reply to Anjuro
@Kiyomice Well I for one do. I imagine an ancient sculptor being transported through time and seeing that apparently in the present our fragile minds can't even handle a bit of nudity or gore, meanwhile our ancestors were telling gruesome raw stories that didn't hide anything and always put the art first. Frankly its disgusting.
| @Anjuro Would you not consider that to be a pretty strong reaction to a fairly minor portion of the anime-watching experience? |
"Wonder is always difficult until you forgive whoever destroyed your love of surprises" — Edmond Manning |
Reply to Kiyomice
@Anjuro Would you not consider that to be a pretty strong reaction to a fairly minor portion of the anime-watching experience?
| @Kiyomice Lol that is better an argument against censorship than for it |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
Reply to Kiyomice
@Anjuro Would you not consider that to be a pretty strong reaction to a fairly minor portion of the anime-watching experience?
| @Kiyomice Not really. Complacency is the greatest insult here, why would I just accept something that I dislike because "its not a big deal" or whatever. For me its more personal because I'm an artist, but I think you can also understand, whether you are an artist or not, that artistic freedom of expression is not just a "small thing". If you don't fight for these things, or at least voice your support/condemnation you are basically saying you don't care about them. In my opinion, it is a fools gambit to wait until things are so bad that you literally can't take it anymore to complain, at that point the battle is lost and you were sleeping while it was being lost, so if anything something being "minor" is the most optimal time to take action, because if it really is that minor it stands to reason that it could change for the better as well right? Its just a "minor" thing right? Just stop the stupid censorship its not a big deal right? Yeah, no, I suspect this is actually a massive deal. |
Anjuro1 hour ago
| I adjust my view, convenient censorship isn't always lame, it just needs to be done in an appealing way. |
Reply to traed
@Kiyomice
Lol that is better an argument against censorship than for it
Lol that is better an argument against censorship than for it
| @traed The act of censoring some boobies does not inherently involve strong emotion, but disgust at the censorship seems fairly strong. So, I disagree. I'm not exactly sure how that is an argument against censorship. It is just an observation. @Anjuro Yeah, I don't fight for it or voice condemnation because I actually don't care about it. As for the artistic freedom, I would agree with you if censorship in anime were suddenly increasing, but correct me if I am wrong, has it not remained the same for at least a decade now? In that case, wouldn't it be up to the artist to pursue a career where they express themselves freely? Basically like, why complain about something if you made the choice to pursue it knowing what it entailed? / Note: Not trying to be antagonistic here. I think your discussion and points are interesting and I would enjoy hearing what you think about it in more detail |
"Wonder is always difficult until you forgive whoever destroyed your love of surprises" — Edmond Manning |
| It's better than the barbie doll anatomy, nothing is more off putting to me than seeing a full frontal chest shot with no nipples, and nothing covering it up. Nipples > Convenient Censorship > Changing the angle (side or back shot) > Barbie doll anatomy = Obtrusive censorship (light beams out of nowhere/Excessive "steam") I'll never forget this travesty. They should have just cut the scene all together. It's only purpose was to be fan service, why include a pure fan service scene, if you are going to do this? And they didn't even fix it in the bluray. |
Reply to Kiyomice
@traed The act of censoring some boobies does not inherently involve strong emotion, but disgust at the censorship seems fairly strong. So, I disagree. I'm not exactly sure how that is an argument against censorship. It is just an observation.
@Anjuro Yeah, I don't fight for it or voice condemnation because I actually don't care about it. As for the artistic freedom, I would agree with you if censorship in anime were suddenly increasing, but correct me if I am wrong, has it not remained the same for at least a decade now? In that case, wouldn't it be up to the artist to pursue a career where they express themselves freely? Basically like, why complain about something if you made the choice to pursue it knowing what it entailed?
/ Note: Not trying to be antagonistic here. I think your discussion and points are interesting and I would enjoy hearing what you think about it in more detail
@Anjuro Yeah, I don't fight for it or voice condemnation because I actually don't care about it. As for the artistic freedom, I would agree with you if censorship in anime were suddenly increasing, but correct me if I am wrong, has it not remained the same for at least a decade now? In that case, wouldn't it be up to the artist to pursue a career where they express themselves freely? Basically like, why complain about something if you made the choice to pursue it knowing what it entailed?
/ Note: Not trying to be antagonistic here. I think your discussion and points are interesting and I would enjoy hearing what you think about it in more detail
Kiyomice said: I don't fight for it or voice condemnation because I actually don't care about it Right, well that is a big reason we are probably not going to see eye to eye on this but well, I guess we can try Kiyomice said: I would agree with you if censorship in anime were suddenly increasing, but correct me if I am wrong, has it not remained the same for at least a decade now? As a matter of fact, it has slowly been increasing. For example, when re-releasing some old anime they have had to censor some things that were previously ok, such as baby nudity as seen in dragonball for example (This is old news by now but relevant to the discussion). I have also seen increasing censorship on Pixiv, a few years ago (I think, can't remember exactly) there was a big policy update (I believe that was due to EU regulations more so than Japan but censorship is censorship). Recently some dragonquest remakes needed to have certain costumes be censored to be released (even in Japan). Ranma 1/2 and Urusei Yatsura were also censored comparatively to their old anime. Generally I see this all the time, when something old is remade or re-released, they always have to make things more conservative (There may be an exception here and there but this is overwhelmingly the rule). Kiyomice said: In that case, wouldn't it be up to the artist to pursue a career where they express themselves freely? Basically like, why complain about something if you made the choice to pursue it knowing what it entailed? I really don't understand what you are advocating for here. Would you accept something like this about something you cared about? Like oh, you wanted to express your emotions freely in a visual way but actually you can't do that, so go do something else? Could you honestly, in your heart of hearts say that to an artist? To even a famous legendary artist like Miura-sensei? Or Kim Jung Gi? I have to ask you one thing, the sacrifice you are asking all artists from now and to the end of time by stripping away freedom of expression is monumental, so what is the justification for this sacrifice? How can it simultaneously be not a big deal and yet so important that you deem it just to callously deny an artists dream to express themselves? I mean I have to tell you, what you are saying is beyond cruel. Kiyomice said: Not trying to be antagonistic here. I think your discussion and points are interesting and I would enjoy hearing what you think about it in more detail I honestly don't know if I can believe that, but I suppose I have to give the benefit of the doubt to some degree. I think partly it is perhaps a failure to understand the nature of creative work. One lecturer I listened to on Youtube put it like this "If a creative person does not create, they die". And if you doubt that statement, consider the horrible conditions under which animators work, or that being a mangaka is basically almost like voluntary slavery, and yet people aspire to become mangaka. To these people what they create is everything to them, if you cannot understand that fundamental point I don't think we can make progress in this discussion. |
Kiyomice said: The act of censoring some boobies does not inherently involve strong emotion, but disgust at the censorship seems fairly strong. So, I disagree. I'm not exactly sure how that is an argument against censorship. It is just an observation. But it does have a strong emotion, that of lust for money or laws that are driven by hatred of sexuality and the human body. What I mean is the censorship comes first, anything after is a reaction. Though the cencorship doesn't count as same if it is for artful purposes rather than limitation of expression which I wouldnt quite call censorship because it would be as intended. |
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