| I was watching the Yuki-onna story from Kyokou Suiri s2 and this question popped into my mind. What I am calling "get to the point" principle is the common idea that to tell a successful story you trim the fat. Every scene has to be justified, sometimes less is more, if it makes the pacing better you cut scenes, even if the scenes are good in a vacuum. Chekov's gun is also related to this, don't introduce setups without payoff. I don't watch a lot of romance anime but as far as I understand it, there the modus operandi is to slow things down to as much as you can muster. Just squeeze every drop of juice out of that rock and then end the series when one of the people confesses. I think this is partly why I don't like Romance anime, the Yuki-onna story reminded me of that. In that story (which is admitedly pretty simple) things move pretty fast and don't linger more than they need to. Compare that to Chihayafuru for example, not a pure romance but its still a major part of the story, for three whole seasons there's nothing but crumbs, it's only a slight exaggeration to say that more development happens in the first few episodes than the rest of the 3 seasons combined. Of course at the end of s3 that scene where things finally start happening and Chihaya goes crying to her teacher to ask for advice hits that much harder, but even having seen that and enjoyed the scene, I can't help but think there has to be a better way, you can't tell me this "stasis romance model" is the be all end all. I know there are exceptions, apparently golden time doesn't even end when the couple gets together "insert Anakin that's impossible meme ", but I think as a generalization this expectation holds true, romance is slow as hell. And don't get me wrong, I have talked to many people that enjoy it that way, I'm not disparaging anyone, I'm just asking you to consider a different point of view. |
AnjuroAug 27, 2024 11:59 AM
| It should apply, unfortunately it rarely does. But it's acceptable if the show has more to offer than just romance. |
*kappa* |
| I don't think there are any romance anime it applies to. Horimiya's romance was very fast, however they still dragged it out even after the main duo relationship was established by focusing on the romances of other characters, just so the manga could make some more profit I'd assume. This is why I think romance should always be implemented alongside drama, cuz on its own romance is pretty dull and needs unnatural plot progression in order to be dragged out for at least a full anime season. |
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Reply to SimplyBrazen
I don't think there are any romance anime it applies to. Horimiya's romance was very fast, however they still dragged it out even after the main duo relationship was established by focusing on the romances of other characters, just so the manga could make some more profit I'd assume. This is why I think romance should always be implemented alongside drama, cuz on its own romance is pretty dull and needs unnatural plot progression in order to be dragged out for at least a full anime season.
| @SimplyBrazen I think drama is a given in romance, well, I guess it depends on what kind, if its the kind you see in those long running soap operas then maybe its not a given, but of course something dramatic/suspenseful should probably happen. I sort of understand that if they "got to the point" there would be no series because it would be over in like 3 episodes, so you either do what chihayafuru did, put a bunch of other stuff in between, or you go the slowpoke route of having no developments and just beating around the bush for 2 seasons. But the optimist in me thinks it doesn't have to be this way, you just have to get creative, like for example, here's a concept for ya. Let's say you have a conventional love story at first, but then the man figures out his date is a youkai. For "insert reason" he remains undetered and he wants to pursue her, and after a few episodes he wins her over, but then the youkai woman tells him she is unable to feel love in this state. This is because the person he was romancing is only like a shell of her being, in a way its almost like he hasn't met the real her. So then the way the story progresses is that he has to enter her mind inception style, to deeper and deeper layers, and win the heart of all of the incarnations of the youkai woman, who slowly changes the deeper he goes revealing something intriguing in the process. Idk, I think you could make a 12 episode season out of that at the very least, I would watch that. But anyway, my main point is, I think its possible to tell a compelling romance that does not fall into a rut, nor is tacked on an unrelated story. |
| The process of "getting to the point" is the point, I think. What even is the "point" that we're trying to get to? The main couple finally getting together isn't why I watch romance shows, it's how the characters and their relationship build and twist and turn, it's the tingly feeling when someone realizes they might like this person or this person might like them, it's the awkwardness coming from getting closer to someone and making mistakes, it's the falling-out and the making-up. I feel this is like criticizing shounen action shows for not getting to the final boss quickly enough. Yes, the stated ultimate goal is to beat the boss, but that's not the main reason people are watching these, is it? Isn't it about the main character's growth, the bonds developed, fighting the goons and the middle bosses, discovering the world, getting power-ups, etc.? |
| The best thing about Domestic Girlfriend is that time actually passes, something always happens. Though there was a stretch where the story spent a bit too much time on side plots... |
Reply to perseii
The process of "getting to the point" is the point, I think.
What even is the "point" that we're trying to get to? The main couple finally getting together isn't why I watch romance shows, it's how the characters and their relationship build and twist and turn, it's the tingly feeling when someone realizes they might like this person or this person might like them, it's the awkwardness coming from getting closer to someone and making mistakes, it's the falling-out and the making-up.
I feel this is like criticizing shounen action shows for not getting to the final boss quickly enough. Yes, the stated ultimate goal is to beat the boss, but that's not the main reason people are watching these, is it? Isn't it about the main character's growth, the bonds developed, fighting the goons and the middle bosses, discovering the world, getting power-ups, etc.?
What even is the "point" that we're trying to get to? The main couple finally getting together isn't why I watch romance shows, it's how the characters and their relationship build and twist and turn, it's the tingly feeling when someone realizes they might like this person or this person might like them, it's the awkwardness coming from getting closer to someone and making mistakes, it's the falling-out and the making-up.
I feel this is like criticizing shounen action shows for not getting to the final boss quickly enough. Yes, the stated ultimate goal is to beat the boss, but that's not the main reason people are watching these, is it? Isn't it about the main character's growth, the bonds developed, fighting the goons and the middle bosses, discovering the world, getting power-ups, etc.?
| @perseii I understand your point that the journey is more important than the destination but I still am not satisfied with the status quo. I wrote a pertinent paragraph in a previous message so I guess I'll just quote that Anjuro said: I sort of understand that if they "got to the point" there would be no series because it would be over in like 3 episodes, so you either do what chihayafuru did, put a bunch of other stuff in between, or you go the slowpoke route of having no developments and just beating around the bush for 2 seasons. But the optimist in me thinks it doesn't have to be this way, you just have to get creative, like for example, here's a concept for ya. Let's say you have a conventional love story at first, but then the man figures out his date is a youkai. For "insert reason" he remains undetered and he wants to pursue her, and after a few episodes he wins her over, but then the youkai woman tells him she is unable to feel love in this state. This is because the person he was romancing is only like a shell of her being, in a way its almost like he hasn't met the real her. So then the way the story progresses is that he has to enter her mind inception style, to deeper and deeper layers, and win the heart of all of the incarnations of the youkai woman, who slowly changes the deeper he goes revealing something intriguing in the process. Idk, I think you could make a 12 episode season out of that at the very least, I would watch that. But anyway, my main point is, I think its possible to tell a compelling romance that does not fall into a rut, nor is tacked on an unrelated story. but let me also say a couple more things. I think one should not confuse the idea of "getting to the point" with rushing to the conclusion. Much like you said in your shounen example, getting to the last boss in record time does not make an anime better but worse, effectively its like having a payoff without a setup, so in truth there is no payoff at all. But there is a limit. The "point" in this case is all the meaningful developments that lead up to the conclusion. Of course you have to flesh them out, make em flow nicely, make them feel earned and coherent, but importantly, we cannot lose sight of what is the meat of the story. Even romance in its purest form has these points, maybe the first "point" is learning the other person is interested, making first contact, then there is a serious problem, then something else, you get the idea. A romance that paces these points of interest well is what I am interested in. My criticism is aimed at the fluff that pads out romances that could have been snappy, episodes where nothing of meaning happens. A little bit of that I can chalk up to "savouring the moment", but again there is a limit. The story has to move forward, in any genre, even if you want to, you can't just stop time and just marinate in something indefinitely, you have to take a measured approach, show enough to satisfy the audience and move on. |
| I just don't see many such examples of a faster paced romance being better where "this is different than what we usually see" isn't doing most of the heavy lifting as to why it's better. And I don't know that it actually is that different, either. Lots of series are an established couple in all but name only. They behave like a couple but don't call each other such. The opposite end to that is a series with a defined couple but due to not knowing each other well, it's still a "will they won't they (they will)" series. Both of these are pretty common in harems/love triangles with a clear favorite/winner, too. It doesn't seem that people that don't like drawn out romances would like any of these options to be honest even though ostensibly they provide what they say they want. |
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Reply to Anjuro
@perseii
I understand your point that the journey is more important than the destination but I still am not satisfied with the status quo.
I wrote a pertinent paragraph in a previous message so I guess I'll just quote that
but let me also say a couple more things. I think one should not confuse the idea of "getting to the point" with rushing to the conclusion. Much like you said in your shounen example, getting to the last boss in record time does not make an anime better but worse, effectively its like having a payoff without a setup, so in truth there is no payoff at all. But there is a limit. The "point" in this case is all the meaningful developments that lead up to the conclusion. Of course you have to flesh them out, make em flow nicely, make them feel earned and coherent, but importantly, we cannot lose sight of what is the meat of the story. Even romance in its purest form has these points, maybe the first "point" is learning the other person is interested, making first contact, then there is a serious problem, then something else, you get the idea. A romance that paces these points of interest well is what I am interested in. My criticism is aimed at the fluff that pads out romances that could have been snappy, episodes where nothing of meaning happens. A little bit of that I can chalk up to "savouring the moment", but again there is a limit. The story has to move forward, in any genre, even if you want to, you can't just stop time and just marinate in something indefinitely, you have to take a measured approach, show enough to satisfy the audience and move on.
I understand your point that the journey is more important than the destination but I still am not satisfied with the status quo.
I wrote a pertinent paragraph in a previous message so I guess I'll just quote that
Anjuro said:
I sort of understand that if they "got to the point" there would be no series because it would be over in like 3 episodes, so you either do what chihayafuru did, put a bunch of other stuff in between, or you go the slowpoke route of having no developments and just beating around the bush for 2 seasons. But the optimist in me thinks it doesn't have to be this way, you just have to get creative, like for example, here's a concept for ya. Let's say you have a conventional love story at first, but then the man figures out his date is a youkai. For "insert reason" he remains undetered and he wants to pursue her, and after a few episodes he wins her over, but then the youkai woman tells him she is unable to feel love in this state. This is because the person he was romancing is only like a shell of her being, in a way its almost like he hasn't met the real her. So then the way the story progresses is that he has to enter her mind inception style, to deeper and deeper layers, and win the heart of all of the incarnations of the youkai woman, who slowly changes the deeper he goes revealing something intriguing in the process. Idk, I think you could make a 12 episode season out of that at the very least, I would watch that. But anyway, my main point is, I think its possible to tell a compelling romance that does not fall into a rut, nor is tacked on an unrelated story.
I sort of understand that if they "got to the point" there would be no series because it would be over in like 3 episodes, so you either do what chihayafuru did, put a bunch of other stuff in between, or you go the slowpoke route of having no developments and just beating around the bush for 2 seasons. But the optimist in me thinks it doesn't have to be this way, you just have to get creative, like for example, here's a concept for ya. Let's say you have a conventional love story at first, but then the man figures out his date is a youkai. For "insert reason" he remains undetered and he wants to pursue her, and after a few episodes he wins her over, but then the youkai woman tells him she is unable to feel love in this state. This is because the person he was romancing is only like a shell of her being, in a way its almost like he hasn't met the real her. So then the way the story progresses is that he has to enter her mind inception style, to deeper and deeper layers, and win the heart of all of the incarnations of the youkai woman, who slowly changes the deeper he goes revealing something intriguing in the process. Idk, I think you could make a 12 episode season out of that at the very least, I would watch that. But anyway, my main point is, I think its possible to tell a compelling romance that does not fall into a rut, nor is tacked on an unrelated story.
but let me also say a couple more things. I think one should not confuse the idea of "getting to the point" with rushing to the conclusion. Much like you said in your shounen example, getting to the last boss in record time does not make an anime better but worse, effectively its like having a payoff without a setup, so in truth there is no payoff at all. But there is a limit. The "point" in this case is all the meaningful developments that lead up to the conclusion. Of course you have to flesh them out, make em flow nicely, make them feel earned and coherent, but importantly, we cannot lose sight of what is the meat of the story. Even romance in its purest form has these points, maybe the first "point" is learning the other person is interested, making first contact, then there is a serious problem, then something else, you get the idea. A romance that paces these points of interest well is what I am interested in. My criticism is aimed at the fluff that pads out romances that could have been snappy, episodes where nothing of meaning happens. A little bit of that I can chalk up to "savouring the moment", but again there is a limit. The story has to move forward, in any genre, even if you want to, you can't just stop time and just marinate in something indefinitely, you have to take a measured approach, show enough to satisfy the audience and move on.
Anjuro said: I understand your point that the journey is more important than the destination Yeah. I could've just said that LOL. Anjuro said: But there is a limit. I guess this is the issue here. One person's "slowpoke route of having no developments" is another person's "scenic route with lots to see." What's the acceptable number of blushing/heart-thumping/avoiding-eye-contact moments before they start dating? 5? 50? People have different limits, for different genres, and maybe the pacing of a "typical" anime romance is beyond your threshold. I'm not a romance fan by any means, and I do think anime romance often takes longer than is really necessary. But I don't really want or expect my anime to only act out of necessity, and I appreciate a show taking it slower and taking some "detours," as long as it doesn't repeat itself and its characters are likable. |
| "Does the "get to the point" principle apply to romance anime?" No. |
Reply to perseii
Anjuro said:
I understand your point that the journey is more important than the destination
I understand your point that the journey is more important than the destination
Yeah. I could've just said that LOL.
Anjuro said:
But there is a limit.
But there is a limit.
I guess this is the issue here. One person's "slowpoke route of having no developments" is another person's "scenic route with lots to see." What's the acceptable number of blushing/heart-thumping/avoiding-eye-contact moments before they start dating? 5? 50? People have different limits, for different genres, and maybe the pacing of a "typical" anime romance is beyond your threshold.
I'm not a romance fan by any means, and I do think anime romance often takes longer than is really necessary. But I don't really want or expect my anime to only act out of necessity, and I appreciate a show taking it slower and taking some "detours," as long as it doesn't repeat itself and its characters are likable.
| @perseii "What's the acceptable number of blushing/heart-thumping/avoiding-eye-contact moments before they start dating?" Well I don't know either but here's my thinking. These moments are fanservice, not the sexual kind, but the romantic kind. They are good in moderation, necessary even, but they don't inherently have substance. Some people will absolutely watch fanservice all day, because they like the characters, or the subject matter, but for me I watch anime primarily for plot developments. If there comes a moment like this along that catches my interest, I take a moment to appreciate it, but moments like this alone cannot make the show for me, they are like sugar, no matter how good they are you can't consume them on their own. So in short, I disagree that experiencing these moments is the point of the show, even if there are shows, even a majority, where that is the case, romance can be so much more than that. "But I don't really want or expect my anime to only act out of necessity, and I appreciate a show taking it slower and taking some "detours,"" I understand this sentiment to a degree. Every now and then its nice to take a slight break from the main plot ans savour the moment, or for the plot to explore something that is not all that significant in the grand scheme of things, but that makes the rest of the story feel more alive (e.g. unrelated but the bazaar subplot in HxH comes to mind). But the spirit of Chekov's gun is extremely important in storytelling, its a golden rule for a reason, if you show something it better have a point to it, because if it doesn't you are diluting the core of your story needlessly. You can break that rule a little bit but you have to do it with purpose, in romance it feels like the forgot about it entirely. I guess one thing you can ask here is whether people would watch a romance that does not have a plot period. Its just a boy and a girl who live a normal school life and every now and then they have these encounters, maybe their eyes meet in class, maybe they have to hold hands for some reason, maybe they have a short conversation and they realize they are both nervous to be talking to each other. But nothing ever changes, its all fanservice. I personally would not even consider watching something like this, it just simply is not what I am looking for out of entertainment, its not a story. |
AnjuroAug 27, 2024 3:50 PM
Reply to Anjuro
@perseii
"What's the acceptable number of blushing/heart-thumping/avoiding-eye-contact moments before they start dating?"
Well I don't know either but here's my thinking. These moments are fanservice, not the sexual kind, but the romantic kind. They are good in moderation, necessary even, but they don't inherently have substance. Some people will absolutely watch fanservice all day, because they like the characters, or the subject matter, but for me I watch anime primarily for plot developments. If there comes a moment like this along that catches my interest, I take a moment to appreciate it, but moments like this alone cannot make the show for me, they are like sugar, no matter how good they are you can't consume them on their own.
So in short, I disagree that experiencing these moments is the point of the show, even if there are shows, even a majority, where that is the case, romance can be so much more than that.
"But I don't really want or expect my anime to only act out of necessity, and I appreciate a show taking it slower and taking some "detours,""
I understand this sentiment to a degree. Every now and then its nice to take a slight break from the main plot ans savour the moment, or for the plot to explore something that is not all that significant in the grand scheme of things, but that makes the rest of the story feel more alive (e.g. unrelated but the bazaar subplot in HxH comes to mind). But the spirit of Chekov's gun is extremely important in storytelling, its a golden rule for a reason, if you show something it better have a point to it, because if it doesn't you are diluting the core of your story needlessly. You can break that rule a little bit but you have to do it with purpose, in romance it feels like the forgot about it entirely.
I guess one thing you can ask here is whether people would watch a romance that does not have a plot period. Its just a boy and a girl who live a normal school life and every now and then they have these encounters, maybe their eyes meet in class, maybe they have to hold hands for some reason, maybe they have a short conversation and they realize they are both nervous to be talking to each other. But nothing ever changes, its all fanservice. I personally would not even consider watching something like this, it just simply is not what I am looking for out of entertainment, its not a story.
"What's the acceptable number of blushing/heart-thumping/avoiding-eye-contact moments before they start dating?"
Well I don't know either but here's my thinking. These moments are fanservice, not the sexual kind, but the romantic kind. They are good in moderation, necessary even, but they don't inherently have substance. Some people will absolutely watch fanservice all day, because they like the characters, or the subject matter, but for me I watch anime primarily for plot developments. If there comes a moment like this along that catches my interest, I take a moment to appreciate it, but moments like this alone cannot make the show for me, they are like sugar, no matter how good they are you can't consume them on their own.
So in short, I disagree that experiencing these moments is the point of the show, even if there are shows, even a majority, where that is the case, romance can be so much more than that.
"But I don't really want or expect my anime to only act out of necessity, and I appreciate a show taking it slower and taking some "detours,""
I understand this sentiment to a degree. Every now and then its nice to take a slight break from the main plot ans savour the moment, or for the plot to explore something that is not all that significant in the grand scheme of things, but that makes the rest of the story feel more alive (e.g. unrelated but the bazaar subplot in HxH comes to mind). But the spirit of Chekov's gun is extremely important in storytelling, its a golden rule for a reason, if you show something it better have a point to it, because if it doesn't you are diluting the core of your story needlessly. You can break that rule a little bit but you have to do it with purpose, in romance it feels like the forgot about it entirely.
I guess one thing you can ask here is whether people would watch a romance that does not have a plot period. Its just a boy and a girl who live a normal school life and every now and then they have these encounters, maybe their eyes meet in class, maybe they have to hold hands for some reason, maybe they have a short conversation and they realize they are both nervous to be talking to each other. But nothing ever changes, its all fanservice. I personally would not even consider watching something like this, it just simply is not what I am looking for out of entertainment, its not a story.
Anjuro said: I disagree that experiencing these moments is the point of the show Yeah I wouldn't say these moments are the point of a romance anime, but I would still say they're a point, a pretty big one at that. Anjuro said: romance can be so much more than that. Sure, we could use more plot-focused romance anime. Unfortunately I can't think of a good one to recommend. Could try the recommendation board. Anjuro said: a romance that does not have a plot period I don't think this is too difficult, especially if it's a comedy. Pseudo Harem airing this season is just a string of skits every episode where a drama-club girl playfully improvs a character to the senpai she likes. I personally thought it was too throw-away and not very charming, but it seems to be pretty popular. |
| Trimming the fat in romance would be turning it into a 1 hour long movie |
 |
| I hear this a lot from Shonen fans. Everything is too slow, hurry up and get to the point. Impatience after 30 seconds if somebody isn't fighting or running or screaming or confessing. One of the ways to enjoy different genres like romances or iyashikei is to slow down your mind. But.... I find Japanese romance infuriating because of their obsession with "unrequited love" which is another way of saying- nothing burger. So you have to find shows that aren't like that and it's hard because they think two people being somewhat interested in each other and never doing anything about it is an amazing thing. Personally I think it's one way to explain their declining population rate- but it's not my problem. |
| How else are they going to drag things out for multiple seasons when you know from the start they're going to get together? |
| Romance anime often takes its time in order to build up the tension and emotional development between characters.By gradually developing the relationship, viewers become emotionally inserted into the characters. The anticipation keeps them engaged, waiting for that pivotal moment when feelings are finally confessed. The slow buildup creates tension and chemistry between characters. It’s like watching a delicate dance—each interaction matters, and every glance carries weight. Some slow-burn romances mirror real-life experiences. In real life true Love doesn’t happen instantly; it takes time to understand someone deeply and fall in love. anime often introduces subplots and throw side characters into the mix . These diversions add depth and keep the story interesting and engaging. slow-burn romances offer a more nuanced and satisfying emotional journey, resonating with anime fans who appreciate the gradual unfolding of love.... but I am with OP with this one, and In Spectre is one of my favorites but not because of the romance .. I prefer Anime that dives straight into the heart of romance as I like a more direct approach. I like anime that start with unconventional setups, like characters already being in a relationship or having a shared history. This allows the story to focus on the dynamics and challenges within the relationship. romance anime following the age old slow-burn formula is very common so I rather choose faster pacing romantic anime that stand out from the norm and surprise me as I appreciate immediate emotional connections and heartfelt moments. When characters click instantly, it’s captivating for me. As a fan of comedy over drama, Their clumsy interactions, banter, and chemistry draw me in, making me root for the couple from the start. Unlike the 90s, anime now have limited 12 episodes rule, so I think they need to establish the romance quickly and skipping the slow buildup allows for a more focused narrative. |
Reply to SuperAdventure
I hear this a lot from Shonen fans. Everything is too slow, hurry up and get to the point. Impatience after 30 seconds if somebody isn't fighting or running or screaming or confessing.
One of the ways to enjoy different genres like romances or iyashikei is to slow down your mind.
But.... I find Japanese romance infuriating because of their obsession with "unrequited love" which is another way of saying- nothing burger. So you have to find shows that aren't like that and it's hard because they think two people being somewhat interested in each other and never doing anything about it is an amazing thing. Personally I think it's one way to explain their declining population rate- but it's not my problem.
One of the ways to enjoy different genres like romances or iyashikei is to slow down your mind.
But.... I find Japanese romance infuriating because of their obsession with "unrequited love" which is another way of saying- nothing burger. So you have to find shows that aren't like that and it's hard because they think two people being somewhat interested in each other and never doing anything about it is an amazing thing. Personally I think it's one way to explain their declining population rate- but it's not my problem.
| @SuperAdventure SuperAdventure said: I hear this a lot from Shonen fans. Everything is too slow, hurry up and get to the point. Impatience after 30 seconds if somebody isn't fighting or running or screaming or confessing. I think you're pidgeonholing me if you think I'm that kind of guy. I've watched the original Ginga eiyuu densetsu and I loved it, the only reason its not in my favourites is because the animation is really dated and I have like 1 or 2 problems with it. Back in the day I would watch 100+ episodes of a series I didn't even like that much. There is a difference between fluff and slow, you can disagree with my critique but you have to base it on something more sophisticated than "you don't have an attention span and/or patience". SuperAdventure said: I find Japanese romance infuriating because of their obsession with "unrequited love" I have mixed feelings about that myself. I actually am more annoyed by "chosen one stories", whether it be romance or any other genre, I've seen enough of that already. I think its a more realistic situation for the love to start out as unrequited, however, you won't catch me defending unrequited love premises for the simple reason that its just a recipe for an anime that goes absolutely no-where. |
| After binging rent a girlfriend manga, I say yes. There was 3 chapters dedicated to the mc taking a bath alone. |
Reply to Anjuro
@SuperAdventure
I think you're pidgeonholing me if you think I'm that kind of guy. I've watched the original Ginga eiyuu densetsu and I loved it, the only reason its not in my favourites is because the animation is really dated and I have like 1 or 2 problems with it. Back in the day I would watch 100+ episodes of a series I didn't even like that much. There is a difference between fluff and slow, you can disagree with my critique but you have to base it on something more sophisticated than "you don't have an attention span and/or patience".
I have mixed feelings about that myself. I actually am more annoyed by "chosen one stories", whether it be romance or any other genre, I've seen enough of that already. I think its a more realistic situation for the love to start out as unrequited, however, you won't catch me defending unrequited love premises for the simple reason that its just a recipe for an anime that goes absolutely no-where.
SuperAdventure said:
I hear this a lot from Shonen fans. Everything is too slow, hurry up and get to the point. Impatience after 30 seconds if somebody isn't fighting or running or screaming or confessing.
I hear this a lot from Shonen fans. Everything is too slow, hurry up and get to the point. Impatience after 30 seconds if somebody isn't fighting or running or screaming or confessing.
I think you're pidgeonholing me if you think I'm that kind of guy. I've watched the original Ginga eiyuu densetsu and I loved it, the only reason its not in my favourites is because the animation is really dated and I have like 1 or 2 problems with it. Back in the day I would watch 100+ episodes of a series I didn't even like that much. There is a difference between fluff and slow, you can disagree with my critique but you have to base it on something more sophisticated than "you don't have an attention span and/or patience".
SuperAdventure said:
I find Japanese romance infuriating because of their obsession with "unrequited love"
I find Japanese romance infuriating because of their obsession with "unrequited love"
I have mixed feelings about that myself. I actually am more annoyed by "chosen one stories", whether it be romance or any other genre, I've seen enough of that already. I think its a more realistic situation for the love to start out as unrequited, however, you won't catch me defending unrequited love premises for the simple reason that its just a recipe for an anime that goes absolutely no-where.
Anjuro said: I have mixed feelings about that myself. I actually am more annoyed by "chosen one stories", whether it be romance or any other genre, I've seen enough of that already. I think its a more realistic situation for the love to start out as unrequited, however, you won't catch me defending unrequited love premises for the simple reason that its just a recipe for an anime that goes absolutely no-where. There are lots of examples of it, but the one that angered me the most was Uzaki-chan Wants to Hang Out. The first season was nice because the two of them didn't need to confess, it was obvious she was already special to him and the lovey-dovey vibes were there but were more of a hint to their friends that something might be up, and that was entertaining..... but then it started this whole BS with teasing whether they'd "officially" hook up or not. So the 2nd season revolved around that, and then.... well I won't spoil it but there's nothing to spoil. Unrequited love is the stupidest concept on the face of the earth, and I can't understand why it's so popular in Japan. It's as pathetic as NTR in my book. |
Reply to SuperAdventure
Anjuro said:
I have mixed feelings about that myself. I actually am more annoyed by "chosen one stories", whether it be romance or any other genre, I've seen enough of that already. I think its a more realistic situation for the love to start out as unrequited, however, you won't catch me defending unrequited love premises for the simple reason that its just a recipe for an anime that goes absolutely no-where.
I have mixed feelings about that myself. I actually am more annoyed by "chosen one stories", whether it be romance or any other genre, I've seen enough of that already. I think its a more realistic situation for the love to start out as unrequited, however, you won't catch me defending unrequited love premises for the simple reason that its just a recipe for an anime that goes absolutely no-where.
There are lots of examples of it, but the one that angered me the most was Uzaki-chan Wants to Hang Out. The first season was nice because the two of them didn't need to confess, it was obvious she was already special to him and the lovey-dovey vibes were there but were more of a hint to their friends that something might be up, and that was entertaining..... but then it started this whole BS with teasing whether they'd "officially" hook up or not. So the 2nd season revolved around that, and then.... well I won't spoil it but there's nothing to spoil. Unrequited love is the stupidest concept on the face of the earth, and I can't understand why it's so popular in Japan. It's as pathetic as NTR in my book.
| @SuperAdventure Well you know,funnily enough I think the unrequited aspect is so common exactly because there is a perception that romance has to be slow and padded out. This is like a main consideration in romance writing, how do we make sure the relationship does not advance? Sometimes its because both characters are too shy to say anything, other times its because "lovers can't be together" because reasons, and of course another common solution is the "protagonist is too dense to notice/ take the concept of romance seriously" which is more along the lines of what is happening in Uzaki chan. As far as I am concerned these tropes are part of the problem. For me the first example that comes to mind is Shimoneta, in that anime the main male protagonist confesses that he is really into anna (not to her directly iirc but to someone else, although I think he also might have told her directly at one point). Fairly quickly there is a development in the story where Anna becomes infatuated with Okuma and it gets to the point where she chases him around wanting to do sexual things to him, now suddenly Okuma wants nothing to do with Anna. Its not like he doesn't like her anymore, there is just some kind of divine pact that makes him unable to have a relationship with her that is anything other that "I want to have a relationship with her someday". Shimoneta is not a romance by any means but I think its the same sort of phenomenon at play. Conversely, I cannot tell you how refreshed I am watching Kyokou suiri, in that anime Kuro and Iwanaga get together fairly quickly in season one, its also one of those "unrequited" premises that you hate, or in this case more like a "reluctant romance". Kuro often makes fun of Iwanaga that he doesn't find her sexy at all and that she is a very mean person, but deep down he does like and appreciate her. Iwanaga on the other hand is very into kuro and makes lewd comments constantly, like to give an example in one episode someone mentions Iwanaga looks like a doll, to which Kuro replies she is actually very hairy unlike a doll, to which Iwanaga replies that Kuro didn't seem to have any trouble drinking alcohol from her crotch despite her alleged hairiness. It just feels like a real romance you know? Where there is not an invisible wall separating the two characters, and I can't tell you how refreshing it is to see it. I think that's something people in these threads miss, this is romance too, when the cards are on the table and you talk openly about your feelings. I don't know why some anime are so opposed to reaching that point in the romance progression. |
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