[AOT MANGA SPOILERS] Does the goated paths arc[ch-120-123] and ch130-131 even make sense anymore?

ZXEAN said:
I don't know ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Only Ymir knows.

Eagle1hunter said:
Only ymir knows. On a serious note i too would want to know the answers to these questions

I still can't understand how the end justify these chapters. Simply because first of all many of 121's quotes of eren like 'I have always been this way' or 'I won't hesitate to take their freedom' etc.. doesn't really have any weight coz he himself admitted that all he did was follow ymir's set out path.

Also what was really the meaning of ymir crying when she gave eren the founding's power? Her betraying zeek's orders[The royal family] was automatically a betrayal to her supposedly 'Love for King Fritz' so why wait for the supposedly main protogonist all along mikasa to behead eren anyway?

Also not gambling the future of the island too was a lie then? Why let the looming threat of the eldian racists even be alive when he could have gone with the full rumble?

Which ultimately bombed them anyway?

If he didn't even had this much common sense, wtf did he actually seen in 'Ah, what a scenery it was' in 121?

Why did he always ramble about being free after the time-skip if he knew he was just following that script made by his casting director ymir?

Also all of eren's monologues of him taking revenge for his mother uptil 131 are basically lies too?

I mean if he just wanted to be with mikasa all along

and didn't had any fking plan to save paradise, he should have just gone with zeek's plan and then died peacefully? I mean he avoided it in the first place was to protect historia right? But still in the end he left her all alone to fight the damn world being alrdy 50 years primitive to their tech, and moreover without the power of the titans.

On a side note how did disappearing of the halluciginea[that worm] happen anyway when ymir was supposedly set free?

How could she have wiped it out?

When he was the big baddie controlling ymir all along giving her the power of the titans?

I mean eren transformed into a collosal after being seperated from it, so did that worm ever had that power?

How did zeke being beheaded stop the rumbling when ymir already sided with eren tho?

Damn don't even try to convince me it was ymir's decision to see her severed-head-kissing fetish true lol.

I would really like to hear the ending defenders thoughts on this. Would really appreciate if even of these things can be explained/proven wrong!

-X3RX3S- said:
@aotisgoat23

Eren himself admitted that he would still rumble even if Mikasa wouldn't go against him and it was not like he ws forced to follow Ymir. he chose to follow Ymir's or actually his path. he chose to make his dad eat the FT. He chose to protect Bert. from Dina due to which his mom got eaten(this was an unstoppable action BTW). So Eren always sought freedom, Eren tried his best to see if there's any other path (HIs reason for breakdown in Sahsa's death). Eren's path si defined by compatabilism.

Ymir couldn't defy Fritz specifically, the source to her twisted attachment, Royal blood has nothing to do with it. Ymir cried bc Eren gave her the freedom to choose. She can decide whether she wants to give Eren FT powers or not. I think you don't understand how Ymir ot freed. It wasn't only Mikasa who freed her. EMA played their roles in doing that.

Uhhhhh He definitely achieved some years of protection by rumbling. If Paradis got bombed after 100 to 200 years does not mean he failed lol. Ofc. he achieved it indirectly by Armin's help. And Eren can't go full rumble bc he don't want to kill his friends. Also full rumbling would have never been he end bc it betrays the themes set in Uprising arc.

Do you know the reasons? Why would world wait 100 years to bomb them LOL. Don't bring the ohh they can't attack Paradis. World can 100% attack them earlier.

Did you skipped ch. 131??????????

Again Eren never followed any scripts and he only came in contact to Ymir after Marley arc. Eren decided to go down the path he went no one forced him. He was free to choose it.

Are you serious here? Eren made it clear in Marley arc that he wasn't there for REVENGE. You have disgustingly misinterpreted Eren's character.

Are you an idiot? He makes this clear in 130 that he does not have time for all this bc his time is limited and he had other responsibility.

More like he had a plan but he wasn't arrogant enough to go all by himself and trusted his friends to protect thier himeland. You are really underestimating him and his friend lol. Eren does not share the anti natalism theory and Zeke's plan also have many flaws such as Eldians hatred never erasing and more. Yeah Armin and Historia's other friend are not there right? He definitely didn't made himself solely responsible to rumbling and Alliance definitely didn't labelled Paradis as inncoent. Titan curse erasing is a blessing for eldians as they are now normal humans and people can't call them devil blood or devils

he went back to where he came from. The tree. Its heavily implied in the extra pages.

Ymir wiped out her curse. The source of life which is the worm kun is still present.

He was only the source. That's all. He had nothing to do with controlling Yir's curse. It was all under Ymir's control.

It was Eren's FT and hallu chan never had control over titan curse.

https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1438476006357180419/photo/1

YOu misinterpret Ymir big time. Actually Eren, Armin and Mikasa all three of them were the reason to free Ymir but Mikasa was the last key. Armin and Eren already taught her their own parts, i.e, Freedom/determination, Humanity and meaning and Mikasa taught her beauty in the cruel world. These aspects were already pretty clear, for Eren in 122-123, Armin in 137, Mikasa in 138.

There you go, proved every single thing. You should reread AOT as you have misunderstood many things.

aotisgoat23 said:
HOLY FUCK. Finally......Finally someone gave such valid explanations to the doubts I had for so damn long. That twitter link was so useful too. So this means that more than half the fandom completely missed and wrongly interpreted so many plotpoints? It doesn't even make any sense bruh. If only Yams properly executed these things the ending never would have got this shitty hate ugh. Like that zeke' killing-stoping the rumbling and most importantly the main trio's individual contributions of freeing ymir etc. But still I kinda think instead of completely following that path set by ymir and altering some more things and ultimately doing a full rumble would have made a great effect smh. He could have let mikasa kill him then I suppose... But then armin's contribution can't be made to happen i think?

-X3RX3S- said:
No problem. Glad I could have helped. I think Yams gave hints by Ymir's behavior and audience were supposed to catch it as Ymir didn't had any dialogues.

And yeah if Eren would've gone full rumbling Ymir's curse won't be lifted. I have many more analysis for many different things like Extra pages, Armin in 139. So feel free to ask about them.

Isayama completely made us feel this way that mikasa was the only one who freed her tbh. {by making eren say that-She was waiting for mikasa etc}

Especially about halluciginea, eren's collosal transformation and a more easily understandable insight on both eren and ymir character instead of just bombarding us with lines like 'I dont know why I did the rumbling, I just thought I had to do it' or 'Ymir loved karl fritz' etc and just went forward saying things like ' OnLy YmIr KnOwS'.

Hmm About Eren's Idk scene. It does not need explanation. You need to think a bit deeper here. I have complaints regarding Eren's character, most of which arise from not giving the complete explanation. What did that "I don't know I just wanted to do it" mean?

Also eren telling us he was the one who killed his mom all this time? that was so out of the blue and was completely unnecessary, it literally took all the weight from his core motivation which developed that hate for titans in the first place! I didn't said he did all this to take revenge for his mom tbh and confusing us further with the unexplained power of the founding to change the past coz it was only implied one can revisit the past through it in 121 and manipulating grisha was only made possible via the attack titan. Him telling armin that he killed his mom, after the immediate introduction of this plotpoint and implying he was not really right in the head coz the founder messed up his head ?experiencing the past present and future at the same time? made eren look like the biggest clown smh.

This whole thing of fatalism, and eren following a predistined fate should have been hinted at a early stage coz the manga constantly gave us the expression that eren defied fate itself and moved forward trying to gain true freedom for himself and his people... It was the one of the biggest reason people connected to him at such an emotional level in the fist place. Suddenly changing eren's character to such extent was a very bad decision especially in the last chapter bruh cmon..

Also Reiner, one of the best characters of the manga, didn't got a proper conclusion in the very least. Like cmon yams giving happy endings to characters like pieck, annie and reducing HISTORIA back to KRISTA by basically erasing her entire fking existence after s3 was so underwhelming. Wtf happened to yelena also? My girl completely vanished in the last chapters.

-X3RX3S- said:
@aotisgoat23



You are misinterpreting this, the dialogue clearly said, She was waiting for someone and then someone appeared it was Mikasa. She wasn't really waiting for Mikasa. She could've chosen any other eldian but Mikasa was the chosen one.

Eren in 139 simply expresses he doesn't know why he would do it, just that he would do that, as it is dictated in psychology that people who don't know why they tend to do certain things, these things are done by underlying psychological triggers that control you, in Eren's case its freedom, But what's more important is what Grisha says. Eren is remembering being born. This is the earliest memory he has clearly from the powers he has obtained. But this is crucial as it is Grisha here giving Eren his identity: "You are Eren. You are free". In other words, Eren does not understand his underlying addiction for freedom, that's why he said that.

Here one of my thread where I talked about this- https://twitter.com/raahimo_0/status/1450515675525509120

Only Ymir knows is not a flaw. Eren does not know what action of mikasa will finally free Ymir from her suffering, Is it killing Mikasa killing eren? is it Mikasa giving a good bye kiss to eren? is it mikasa wrapping the scarf after killing eren? Eren does not know and he would never be able to.

It was a mistranslation, Eren in Japanese only said- "It couldn't be helped. That day... That time... It wasn't Bertholdt's time to die yet... That's why I made her overlook Bertholdt, and she went..."

This thread will definitely help you- https://twitter.com/Qoenntrell/status/1429831599609159680

This means that Dina would always go towards Carla once she enters Shiganshina, Dina will always kill Carla sooner or later. Only possibility where Dina won't go towards Carla(still it does not guarantee that Carla would stay safe as her bottom was crushed by the fallen house) would be when Bertholt gets eaten but if Bert. gets eaten then Eren won't arrive at the desired future(canon end).

Another example would be Marley arc, Gabi would always kill Sasha and the trigger was Eren's declaration of war and Scouts raid on Liberio just like how Reiner's decision to break the wall was the trigger to Carla's death.

So No Eren didn't just went oh Carla's gonna die so let's just kill her off by Dina. It was that Carla would always die by the hands of Dina as soon as Dina enters Shiganshina in one way or other bc of Deterministic nature of SnK World. Hannes would still won't be able to save Carla.

search up about compatibilism. It means a mix of free will and deterministic timeline. Eren chose to go by what he saw in the future. He wasn't forced to go in that direction. Eren could have full rumbled but he would have lost his friends and titan powers will still be present. So he didn't went that route. Eren chose by his free will to infiltrate marley/to rumble/to punch armin/to say tatakae and others I think you ge what I am saying. Eren followed that fate bc HE WANTED TO. It wasn't the pre destined path. it was just the path he thought would be the best. He broke down in Sasha's death bc he understood that the actions he chose will definitely lead to the things he saw in the future memories(Sasha's death being a result of his attack on Liberio). Also Hobo Eren didn't knew about Ymir or her choice, therefore he wasn't Ymir's slave. Also Eren never changed in 139

Eren is a slave to his own desires. He wants to experience That Scenery, so that he can understand what Armin truly felt when Armin saw the scenery in the books. So that he can understand what Armin saw at that moment but he didn't understood that its something that comes from within. Eren chased a ghost of a feeling by perceiving them on the physical world- First it was outside the wall, then it was ocean and then it was that scenery or simply that scenery. It's the whole tragedy of the character, who destroyed the world while chasing some ghost of a feeling, never truly understanding what it was that he was chasing.

He actually got tho. him meeting his mother in 139 and sniffing one, I don't mind his ending, I feel like the letter thing is not out of character for him tbh. I see it like him finally being able to shed his layers upon layers of masks and be somewhat carefree, showing an overall change of the state of the world (and him) from dreadful and miserable to full of new hope? Like my boy has always been somewhat awkward and wacky, maybe you liked his cool warrior persona more?

Historia was sidelined after Uprising arc. Yams just said her importance has ended but killing would pose many problems so the pregnancy mini plot line. She did surpassed her parents by becoming a better parent tho and chose her own life and lived for herself instead of giving in to her duties for Paradis.

I agree with yelena. She's probably vibing in a beach lol.

What If that 'It couldn't be helped' line meant that him protecting berthold was inevitable, and his mom died in the process?

If these were the ways isayama wanted to end his story he should have put atleast 6-7 more chapters exploring these effin deep themes to a far higher extent.

Also what's ur take on 137 tho coz the origins of the tians simply coming from an op magic worm sure did offend a lot of people. All that reincarnating previous holders thingy too

it looks like I was waiting for 2000 yrs for ur answers lmao coz legit everytime I asked anyone about any of these questions they would simplly dodge them and say its a plothole, asspult and what not.. But looks like most of the readers didn't even put much of a thought into this ending and just straight up went dissing the fuck out of this manga for months.

Thanks a bunch dude for the time and hardwork u put into making these comments. :) U have had the best fking analysis on aot smh.

Chota_Itachi said:
Not reading all of that , it's toooo long

I_Am_Freeballing said:
Yes they do. The problem is people don't recontextualize them after the ending and stick to the interpretation they originally had. 131 Eren and 139 Eren are identical but people still can't notice why.

reukuty said:

139 happened during 131.

I_Am_Freeballing said:


Yes but ending haters say the 139 Eren ruins 131 Eren which is nonsensical.

aotisgoat23 said:
I can basically confirm that there is not really any point in interacting with the fandom now.
They have alrdy imagined their headcanons regarding the plot, ending, eren and just don't, or should I say even bother to understand anything.
'They just keep moving forward until they shit on every aot thread and succeed in destroying the remaining 20% of the fandom too' :)

I_Am_Freeballing said:


I am hopeful that the anime is going to just explain the ending better so we can get a more positive reaction to the ending.

I_Am_Freeballing said:
Yes they do. The problem is people don't recontextualize them after the ending and stick to the interpretation they originally had. 131 Eren and 139 Eren are identical but people still can't notice why.

yaegerist-15 said:
the ending feels like a retcon. 139 decontextualized every plot point in the show. Rendering every character. Just read 122 again and then 139, you tell me this garbage was set up from the start? Ymirs whole characterization had nothing to do with some agony of love crap. It tied up to the themes of the story like freedom, slavery and racism and with that, eren freed her. He was the driving force of the show and was supposed to break the chains. Isayama wrote a last minute cope out to redeem him. 131 and 139 eren was definitely not identical lmao

_spoon_ said:
not gonna read that whole paragraph but yea the ending was utter shit

_spoon_ said:
the ending of aot pretty much ruined everything

aka_panda said:
Previous "where did the analytical abilities of fandom went" thread got merked
Lets see how much time does this thread last
kekw

All aot threads are filled with paragraphs to such a point that even scrolling them super fastly is taking quite a while

-X3RX3S- said:
Curious to know why you wrote the same thing twice?

-X3RX3S- said:
Curious to know why you wrote the same thing twice?

aotisgoat23 said:
Manz just straight up desperate really. Nothing works on him. Might as well ignore his comments in aot-related threads.
I gave up too some time ago.
Let him do his usual routine here in the fandom.

I_Am_Freeballing said:


I never felt there was a retcon. 139 simply gave another meaning to the story than the one we thought there was. 122 and 139 make perfect sense too if you stop going with your interpretation. You are choosing a side when you don't have to. It's both the ''agony of love'' and issues like freedom, slavery and racism. Ymir felt like a slave in more ways then the literal one, and her love for Fritz chained her down even more. Eren did not free her, he gave her a choice, which she never had. Mikasa is the one who freed her or maybe it would be better to say Mikasa was the last step to freeing her, while Eren was merely one of the steps. What he did for her in 122 is not lost. Eren achieved his goal of removing the titans and that was his goal from the very beginning. He never broke the chains though, he was free in a way but he also never was. Eren is not meant to be portrayed as someone successful in the end IMO but rather a human who was flawed. Also, you read 131 and 139 and tell me Eren is different. He is not. You just refuse to see there is more to him. There is duality to him. There is no need for him to be either a ''chad'' or a ''simp'' because he is both. Chad Eren moments remain chad Eren moments. Him breaking down at the end doesn't mean his ''cool'' moments weren't cool.

yaegerist-15 said:
another meaning? nice so we all misunderstood the whole story and characters nice. Ymir character inn 122 represented all the themes presented in the story and ere, the driving force of the story, was the perfect foil. Erens goal wasn't switched you say? Did you read 130/131 properly? What about the cycle of hatred since 2000 years? Did he lie in his inner thoughts? Eren was build up to be a antithesis to king fritz and the opposite to Karl fritz. Literally everyone thought that a code glass ending would be dumb as fuck and it happened lmao. He was a lawed character when he run in desperation to ymir in 122 or when he cried to rams in 131, not in that pathetic way in 139. The duality in him was his determination to free paradise but also witness his dream of freedom but as we all know eren, he had a sadistic side. Just like how he killed these 2 man in age of 8 or how he loved to kill Annie in trost. he felt sorry for innocent children like ramzi but deep down, enjoyed that sight. But so many idiots here think he didn't care about paradise. 130 was a clear death flagg for the alliance too.
Eren was perfectly flawed, crying about mikasa not moving on didn't make him a better character. But you eat everything on your plate. Just like the mediocre season 4. If you like the ending, fine, but telling me I didn't get the story and MC is funny because apparently, the ending gave new meaning to the story :)

I_Am_Freeballing said:


The things you said about Eren are not negated by 139 lol, that's all I'm saying. You are just mad he cried like a bitch in 139. The things that happened in 122, 130 and 131 still remain true even though he acted the way he did in 139. That's what you don't get.

yaegerist-15 said:
yes they are. He cried over mikasa not finding another man instead of all the death people or his mom. 122 was completely recontextualized and 130/131 is all acting

yaegerist-15 said:
yes they are. He cried over mikasa not finding another man instead of all the death people or his mom. 122 was completely recontextualized and 130/131 is all acting

aotisgoat23 said:
Oh boiii chill.......Stop acting like he didn't cry in front of ramzi for all the atrocities, deaths and destructions he will cause in the future lmao. Hell, the whole chapter 131 was based on his apology to the world!

In 139 he was simply venting as he can't be with his friends anymore, how much he loved mikasa and how the accursed world put him into such a bad situation that in that very moment, he can't alter/prevent his mom's death cause whatever action he might have done, it would have resulted in the same.
122 wasn't recontextualized as it was eren[122], armin[137] and mikasa[138] who freed ymir.

Also before spouting bullshit like it retconed earlier chapters, u should read those earlier replies by that guy who wrote those long paragraphs. Its an old thread u know atleast check its contents first before getting into an argument with a random guy lol.

Alvacka97 said:
That obsessed lowlife can't read for shit. I'm still waiting for him to come out of his basement and refute all of Shash's arguments.

Vinicius234 said:


Why would someone waste their time arguing with a fellow from the retard sub, when there are more urgent matters to deal with in a dayly basis ?

Why would a social democrat argue with an anarchocapitalist? or an atheist with a full blown believer, whereas their notions and arches are different ? No, When one ages one learns which discussions are worth it and which aren’t.

To refute sash who you suck it so hard to the point of insulting someone else, there is already lunar ghost analysis on the ending with its 50 pages, and in general, the demon and the girl theory. Everything else is a waste of time.

Alvacka97 said:
Why? Because he has nothing better to do. He's been arguing over here, over at reddit, and twitter on a daily basis about this exact same thing for over 8 months, and getting ridiculed everytime, he has quite the hate-boner for AoT and way too much free time. So yeah, he doesn't get to use the "won't waste my time" card, and he knows it, that's why he never has.

Alvacka97 said:
Why? Because he has nothing better to do. He's been arguing over here, over at reddit, and twitter on a daily basis about this exact same thing for over 8 months, and getting ridiculed everytime, he has quite the hate-boner for AoT and way too much free time. So yeah, he doesn't get to use the "won't waste my time" card, and he knows it, that's why he never has.

Vinicius234 said:


Well, There is a difference between a comeback, a short reply, and a proper long ass wall that it’s exactly what is required to refute the shash dude from that sub, and thus the answer you are looking for.

Probably and without trying to advocate for the other dude, yeah, He may deem it not worthy.

I believe this myself, because that’s my case lol. I come here from time to time to read whatever people come up with, and although I disagree on almost any basis with the xx3 fellow that has the thorfinn banner that practically lives here, in no way I am arguing with him and investing in a x 5 times bigger and overall more richer text than this.

By the way I apologize if I sounded rude, I think I self inserted a bit.

Vinicius234 said:


Well, There is a difference between a comeback, a short reply, and a proper long ass wall that it’s exactly what is required to refute the shash dude from that sub, and thus the answer you are looking for.

Probably and without trying to advocate for the other dude, yeah, He may deem it not worthy.

I believe this myself, because that’s my case lol. I come here from time to time to read whatever people come up with, and although I disagree on almost any basis with the xx3 fellow that has the thorfinn banner that practically lives here, in no way I am arguing with him and investing in a x 5 times bigger and overall more richer text than this.

By the way I apologize if I sounded rude, I think I self inserted a bit.

aotisgoat23 said:
Who the hell is Shash anyway?

Alvacka97 said:
He's the GOAT
https://youtu.be/UmfmRK5dkEQ
https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1430539285476909060
https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1417554380820303886
https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1419327763153137671
https://twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1455995585757057030