Silvana00 said: yes the guy that didn't want to work with Saber and didn't let her fight, which in turn almost killed him or stopped him from killing enemies, and left everything up to luck is just perfect.Phosphophyllita said: We share the same opinion m8, i hate the fate main series because of him. And i love zero more because hes father is just perfectBecause he ruins all Fate he's in Fate/Zero is the best Fate because it doesn't have Emiyass Shirou ruining everything on the screen. |
| Be careful folks, an Emiyass fanboy is bleeding here |
| If you're a fanboy, please don't waste my time. Watch more movies, please. Perhaps, this is hell. |
Phosphophyllita said: oh no...Be careful folks, an Emiyass fanboy is bleeding here The reply i would expect from people that have bias when the mc only looks cool. |
| tbf from what i can remember ufotable downplayed kiritsugu's manchild personality while emphasizing shirou as a more generic protag |
| "I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says. I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby". "She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other." |
| Fate and its bland characters. Even reading the whole VN, I still don't like any of the characters. |
| "Life is too bitter, so coffee, at least should be sweet..." - Hikigaya Hachiman (Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Come wa Machigatte Iru) |
| Shirou is often portrayed as the generic "hero of justice" in most of the Fate anime installments sans Heaven's Feel, and that archetype is often quite bland and unappealing nowadays. The likes of many other protagonists, especially most shounen mcs, often fall into that archetype, too. |
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rarewaifu said: cchigu said: Fate and its bland characters. Even reading the whole VN, I still don't like any of the characters. even Kirei and Archer? ouch this hurts to read to say the least I agree. I haven't found a single person who hates Kirei after reading the VN, guess he read the Fate route only and thought this is all there is to it |
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V1D1T said: I wouldnt really trust his claim that he read it.I agree. I haven't found a single person who hates Kirei after reading the VN, guess he read the Fate route only and thought this is all there is to it |
V1D1T said: ngl I'm fine if someone shits on everyone in the cast besides Kirei. He's not my personal favorite all around in Fate. However, just looking at FSN VN, he's easily the most compelling character I've ever seen.I agree. I haven't found a single person who hates Kirei after reading the VN, guess he read the Fate route only and thought this is all there is to it |
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Aoi_Yozora said: In the very beginning after completing Deen’s adaptation of Fate, I didn’t like him or dislike him either, he was what people would call bland. Just saying but when I saw Fate Zero, I wasn’t much of a Kiritsugu fan either, his actions and intentions made him a very dislike-able, mostly because I couldn’t sympathize on what he was doing. By the time UBW tv show came out, I was a bit skeptical on whether I could watch Fate Stay Night again, but my perspectives from then onward completely changed as Shirou’s character was about man who was always fighting himself, even without his monologue is what I hear from people, for the most part it’s much more clearer than what deen could’ve given us. Heaven’s feel also does a good job of exploring the depths of his character, which is even more clear this time. I haven’t read the visual novel, but I would if Type-moon were to ever make a remake or sprite updates to the game, but I feel like the graphics haven’t aged that well since old Takeuchi art doesn’t look that appealing imo. Contrary to what hardcore VN purirists say you don't need VN to understand Shirou. UBW episodes 18-21 cover all important aspects of his character (btw it's funny how some people complained that UBW anime is too monologue-heavy while others complained that there's not enough monologues lol) His characterization is more detailed but that's it. I've seen people who understood Shirou more after reading VN but I've rarely seen people who hated him in UBW/HF animes changing their minds. "Read VN" is just nothing more than a meme that VN-readers use as a response against some annoying anime-onlies The only anime that actually butchers Shirou's character is Deen adaptation, but to be honest every character goes full retard in Deen anime . |
KtKr said: tbh Deen as well portrayed him well enough....I was surprised after my rewatch while I was editing out the non canon parts.Aoi_Yozora said: In the very beginning after completing Deen’s adaptation of Fate, I didn’t like him or dislike him either, he was what people would call bland. Just saying but when I saw Fate Zero, I wasn’t much of a Kiritsugu fan either, his actions and intentions made him a very dislike-able, mostly because I couldn’t sympathize on what he was doing. By the time UBW tv show came out, I was a bit skeptical on whether I could watch Fate Stay Night again, but my perspectives from then onward completely changed as Shirou’s character was about man who was always fighting himself, even without his monologue is what I hear from people, for the most part it’s much more clearer than what deen could’ve given us. Heaven’s feel also does a good job of exploring the depths of his character, which is even more clear this time. I haven’t read the visual novel, but I would if Type-moon were to ever make a remake or sprite updates to the game, but I feel like the graphics haven’t aged that well since old Takeuchi art doesn’t look that appealing imo. Contrary to what hardcore VN purirists say you don't need VN to understand Shirou. UBW episodes 18-21 cover all important aspects of his character (btw it's funny how some people complained that UBW anime is too monologue-heavy while others complained that there's not enough monologues lol) His characterization is more detailed but that's it. I've seen people who understood Shirou more after reading VN but I've rarely seen people who hated him in UBW/HF animes changing their minds. "Read VN" is just nothing more than a meme that VN-readers use as a response against some annoying anime-onlies The only anime that actually butchers Shirou's character is Deen adaptation, but to be honest every character goes full retard in Deen anime . The problem is that his portrayal, and of the other characters, is in conflict with the romcom comedy tone that Deen created. In one scene you have Shirou thinking about his ideal etc and the next he is looney tunes running away from Rin who is afraid that her panties will be visible. It is understandable that people will give up on characterization. |
DaddyDonovan said: KtKr said: Contrary to what hardcore VN purirists say you don't need VN to understand Shirou. UBW episodes 18-21 cover all important aspects of his character (btw it's funny how some people complained that UBW anime is too monologue-heavy while others complained that there's not enough monologues lol) His characterization is more detailed but that's it. I've seen people who understood Shirou more after reading VN but I've rarely seen people who hated him in UBW/HF animes changing their minds. "Read VN" is just nothing more than a meme that VN-readers use as a response against some annoying anime-onlies The only anime that actually butchers Shirou's character is Deen adaptation, but to be honest every character goes full retard in Deen anime . I just finished the UBW route of the vn and my opinion of Shirou when I was watching UBW was that he was decent, there was definitely more to him than meets the eye, but I definitely wasn't in love with him. After playing through the ubw route he is probably in my top 5 or so fate characters, I just found him much more compelling and complex in the vn. Maybe it's just that I haven't watched ubw in ages though. The main problem is that majority of people don't analize dialogue or character monologues when watching TV series but they pay more attention to details when reading a novel at their own pace. |
omg i finally get to use these memes. shirou goat.      |
The first meme shows the people here in this thread |
VnArchMay 14, 2021 8:35 AM
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| The reason Shirou is not popular here is because Shirou is to deep and complex for MAL. MAL has been known to carry several clowns on this website. MAL praises alot of garbage like One Piece, Naruto, Hunter x Hunter, Fate Zero, Haikyuu, etc. They develop these silly biases like "If that character doesn't win most of the time, he's garbage then". Shiro Emiya is tragic, and he loses alot, he's a fallen man. Which by definitation means, people on MAL just cannot comprehend the genius that goes into his character. Instead they will praise trash like Luffy, Naruto, Gon, Saitama, Zero Two and countless other awful characters. To actually understand Shiro Emiya requires you to research Sigmund Freud and Jacques Derrida, which you would then use your intelligence to put Psychoanalysis and the concept of deconstruction philosphy into one. MAL users are just not smart enough for that. But don't forget like several other masterpieces like George Owell's "1984", Harper Lee's "To Kill A mocking Bird", Aldouous Huxley's "Brave New World", Homer's "Odyssey" and Machiavelli's "Prince", it took decades upon decades, centuries upon centuries for it to be considered a masterpiece. This means FSN cannot be truly appreciated until decades, centuries and maybe millenia's go by. I was arguing with a few One Piece fans the other day, they were bragging about how One Piece had amazing "symbolism" and how it "conveys its themes of freedom", which is just LOL. I Then brought up how FT did very similar things to OP but then One Piece fans started throwing insults and they started wailing as usual. But Tldr: MAL is filled with incompetent people who cannot understand the deep rooted philosphies of Consequentialism and Deontology. |
| what? archer is so popular what do you mean? |
"Shirou please fuck me" damn |
| Well there are a lot of reasons why because most people watched the UBW route which is by far Shirous worst route for me at least. I did not like UBW for a lot of reasons and Shirou is the majority of that reason. He's annoying and gets the biggest BS plot armor I have ever seen. His hero of justice is annoying and I feel doesn't fit well in UBW. I didn't like the majority of the characters in this Route honestly including Saber. I feel Shirou really shines in the Vow in the Snow movie and the Heaven's Feel Route mainly because it makes sense how he got powerful in both stories and he's way less annoying. Also his hero of justice persona fits and makes sense in these two stories because he protects Miyu from Kaleid and Sakura from HFs movies. I also I liked him in the fun spinoffs Carnival Phantasm and Today's Menu for Emiya Family but those are just fun to watch. But the series I listed that I liked him in are not as popular as UBWs which again is Shirous worst route IMO. Shirou is a really well written character but the anime he shines in are just not popular according to MAL. |
hgjchfmgjvgty said: Shirou is just a bland, boring, and a very stupid main character. A real step down from Kiritsugu Ah yes the guy that kills people without any motivation, background or moral struggle and no development is better than someone that has all that. |
hgjchfmgjvgty said: These type of comments are so inaccurate, that it hurts... The guy that irrationally kills thousands for a vague purpose of world peace is somehow less stupid than Shirou. I don't get why people comment if they don't understand the charactersShirou is just a bland, boring, and a very stupid main character. A real step down from Kiritsugu |
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hgjchfmgjvgty said: Yep that was the moral of the story....glad to know that you paid attention with the same brain that made your username.ssjokg said: Ah yes the guy that kills people without any motivation, background or moral struggle and no development is better than someone that has all that. ya the stupid 14 year old kid didn't care about people dying when the girl who he wanted to have sex with was killing them. oh ya and we got to see those kids have sex, so much better then zero, yup good development, moral struggles and motivation. |
| Didnt know cardboards have complex issues that define and set them apart from the rest. |
ssjokgJul 10, 2021 8:54 PM
| I'm pretty impartial here, because I don't think Shirou is the worst Fate protagonist (I think the hero of Grand Order is even more useless and worst), and I think Shirou having access to Unlimited Blade Works gives him enough badass points in my book... But I still understand the hate: He's got the typical "I need to save everyone!" attitude of a Shonen protagonist, but the series he's in is so dark that attitude doesn't work. If it wasn't for Unlimited Blade Works and Saber as his servant, and the fact that his anime is kind of a harem with powerful female leads there to protect him, poor Shirou would have been axed out the gate. Many people hate he shouldn't survive in a series as dark as Fate; it would be like if you took Naruto and made him the lead of Berserk. It doesn't work, it shouldn't work, but he still wins, which fuels the fans of hatred for the character. I think the series would honestly be stronger if they subverted the hero troupe, made him die early trying to be a Shonen protag, then had Rin steal his servant and run the show. But I digress... My counter argument is always that Shirou isn't a dumb pacifist; he WANTS to fight, but at the expense of handicapping characters cooler than he is. He also isn't useless (Unlike Fate Grand/Order boi who is just a magical cheerleader). |
| Shirou is A: A character that is "normal" for a Type Moon Character, at least on the surface. He is a beginner to magic, knows nothing about the Holy Grail War and has lived a somewhat normal life all his life. Compared to the more obviously "different" magi and servants within the Fate series he seems normal, which some see as boring. B: Unrelatable to most people. People have this idea that Shirou is supposed to be a self-insert MC, despite Shirou being defined by his ideology that he lives his life around to an extent that is rarely found in real life, probably because of how normal his life seems to be. Due to this, some dislike him because they think he is boring and too normal and some dislike him because they cannot relate to him after being told he is a character made so that he can be related to because of those people who see him as a self-insert MC. This idea that he is supposed to be a self-insert MC is what makes him so unpopular, other fiercely ideological Fate characters (Saber, Gilgamesh, Archer, Kiritsugu) are still incredibly popular because nobody has tried to argue that they exist to be related to, so people don't have false expectations from them. Essentially people have this false expectation that Shirou being a character that asks the questions the audience has about the grail war and his more normal and mundane life means he is a audience surrogate, and are angered and turned off when he is not. |
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| He very well written Mc but really really annoying (fate router in vn was raging because of him and sabers idiocy) So I like his better version archer more |
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| fate as a concept is fantastic. the servants also a re geat, the masters do seem lacking. all servants are based of actual myths. but not shiro, he is an asspull from the start. oh shiro becomes a self sacrificing myth hero in the future and then comes back to kill his whiny cunt younger self. so even his own future self hates him. too much plot armor. he literally is a self insert done wrong. hes even worse than a blank slate self insert most game adaptations have. [quote=Phosphophyllita message=62920486]Because he ruins all Fate he's in Fate/Zero is the best Fate because it doesn't have Emiyass Shirou ruining everything on the screen./quote] well this |
KuroudoAkabane said: fate as a concept is fantastic. the servants also a re geat, the masters do seem lacking. all servants are based of actual myths. but not shiro, he is an asspull from the start. oh shiro becomes a self sacrificing myth hero in the future and then comes back to kill his whiny cunt younger self. so even his own future self hates him. too much plot armor. he literally is a self insert done wrong. hes even worse than a blank slate self insert most game adaptations have. Phosphophyllita said: well thisBecause he ruins all Fate he's in Fate/Zero is the best Fate because it doesn't have Emiyass Shirou ruining everything on the screen. I suggest not using words like asspull or self insert if you dont know what they mean. |
ssjokg said: oh right he isnt an ass PULL, kiritsugu shoved the sheath of excalibur up his ass at the end of FZ.KuroudoAkabane said: fate as a concept is fantastic. the servants also a re geat, the masters do seem lacking. all servants are based of actual myths. but not shiro, he is an asspull from the start. oh shiro becomes a self sacrificing myth hero in the future and then comes back to kill his whiny cunt younger self. so even his own future self hates him. too much plot armor. he literally is a self insert done wrong. hes even worse than a blank slate self insert most game adaptations have. well this I suggest not using words like asspull or self insert if you dont know what they mean. MC based of a literal porn game. totally not a self insert. |
KuroudoAkabane said: oh right he isnt an ass PULL, kiritsugu shoved the sheath of excalibur up his ass at the end of FZ. MC based of a literal porn game. totally not a self insert. Sigh...well at least the haters are still oozing with intelligence as we see here. |
ssjokg said: I see you fancy yourself a master, your servant classKuroudoAkabane said: oh right he isnt an ass PULL, kiritsugu shoved the sheath of excalibur up his ass at the end of FZ. MC based of a literal porn game. totally not a self insert. Sigh...well at least the haters are still oozing with intelligence as we see here. strawman |
| Close your wikipedia pages. Throwing random words around without understanding doesnt mean shit. |
KuroudoAkabane said: oh right he isnt an ass PULL, kiritsugu shoved the sheath of excalibur up his ass at the end of FZ. MC based of a literal porn game. totally not a self insert. Fate was never intended to be an eroge (not a hentai game as that’s a nukige, which is all sex whereas an eroge has sex sprinkled throughout), but in order for it to sell well, the artist and character designer convinced the writer to add hentai scenes. I think it’s fine to hate Fate for pandering to this audience for $$$$$, but it’s kinda whack that you’d hate it for solely for having elements of an eroge alone. The fact is, it’s gross that Nasu was pandering to this audience for money, not because these scenes (which are horribly written because he doesn’t care) inherently exist. |
certainmiracleJul 11, 2021 2:30 PM
KamisamaArigatou said: did you not read my 1st comment? thats not at all what I said.but it’s kinda whack that you’d hate it for solely for having elements of an eroge alone. the game was released as an eroge. that is a fact even you agree, hell KamisamaArigatou said: your wordsThe fact is, it’s gross that Nasu was pandering to this audience for money, they use the blank slate mc as its meant to be a self insert. anime adaptations tend to follow on that. but not here, in shiro case, while in the game you might make different decisions, terrible choices are forced upon you the viewer. the sacrifice myself to save everyone is not a well liked trope to begin with. exactly what shiro does. and if you havent played the actual VN but know about it, [that it is based of a porn game] having the crappy moral justice warrior like shiro makes it worse. |
KuroudoAkabane said: KamisamaArigatou said: did you not read my 1st comment? thats not at all what I said.but it’s kinda whack that you’d hate it for solely for having elements of an eroge alone. the game was released as an eroge. that is a fact even you agree, hell KamisamaArigatou said: your wordsThe fact is, it’s gross that Nasu was pandering to this audience for money, they use the blank slate mc as its meant to be a self insert. anime adaptations tend to follow on that. but not here, in shiro case, while in the game you might make different decisions, terrible choices are forced upon you the viewer. the sacrifice myself to save everyone is not a well liked trope to begin with. exactly what shiro does. and if you havent played the actual VN but know about it, [that it is based of a porn game] having the crappy moral justice warrior like shiro makes it worse. I should've elaborated further. It is fine if your puritan and western morals prevent you from enjoying Fate's eroge moments (which are contrived), as I myself am not a fan of eroge or nukige. However, saying that Shirou is a blank slate is also wrong, as the original characters are very developed in the visual novel because those were the things that the writer actually wanted to work on. By the way, you must not like Kiritsugu, as Shirou is exactly who he's based off of. Perhaps you should learn to become self-aware and see your own hypocrisy, if you are indeed a fan of Kiritsugu |
certainmiracleJul 11, 2021 2:53 PM
KingNutSauce said: Hes nothing special and gets overshadowed by more cooler characters. Criticizing him is poking a beehive made out of 14 year olds with inferiority complexes. Fanboys preach his "complex" character to high heavens, but in reality are just defending a blank state they projected themselves into. I've read stay night, heavens feel and watched the UBW. Hes a generic shounen protag, vns dont change that. Having a survivors guilt and being empty inside doesnt "deconstruct" him of being a shounen protag. Hes still admired and assisted by almost all characters, plot armor up the ass, ridiculous power level despite being at basically zero even after years of training. Only time he truly suffers the consequences of his actions are in the bad ends, which portray it how it would really be without ass pulls. Fanboys screetch how you must read HF to understand how truly complex he is. In it, he instantly abandons his "save everyone" ideals, the moment he gets to choose between a vagina and peoples lives. "My gf is killing servants and eating random strangers? fuck them, getting laid is my new ideal". Holy fuck people, how is this character development? You made this account today just to say this? How far must haters go to talk shit? >I've read stay night, heavens feel and watched the UBW We know you didnt from the way this is read. |
ssjokgJul 16, 2021 9:41 AM
KingNutSauce said: Hes nothing special and gets overshadowed by more cooler characters. Criticizing him is poking a beehive made out of 14 year olds with inferiority complexes. Fanboys preach his "complex" character to high heavens, but in reality are just defending a blank state they projected themselves into. Atleast pay attention to what youre reading/watching dude! KingNutSauce said: I've read stay night, heavens feel and watched the UBW. Hes a generic shounen protag, vns dont change that. This is the perfect order to watch/read Fate guys, also what were you smoking while going through the VN KingNutSauce said: Having a survivors guilt and being empty inside doesnt "deconstruct" him of being a shounen protag. Hes still admired and assisted by almost all characters, plot armor up the ass, ridiculous power level despite being at basically zero even after years of training. Only time he truly suffers the consequences of his actions are in the bad ends, which portray it how it would really be without ass pulls. Now I am really curious on what characters you do like. its like hating an actual person just because he is feeling depressed. Also I thought Fate is one of those franchise who never fucks up with the power level traits, if you dont understand how Shirou was able to beat Gilgamesh even after reading the VN(anime has also explained that properly) then I guess you have got some issues KingNutSauce said: Fanboys screetch how you must read HF to understand how truly complex he is. In it, he instantly abandons his "save everyone" ideals, the moment he gets to choose between a vagina and peoples lives. "My gf is killing servants and eating random strangers? fuck them, getting laid is my new ideal". Holy fuck people, how is this character development? I never saw anyone saying read HF to understand his character, you can do that after atleast reading upto UBW. And yes, that was the point of the series, I guess you are brave enough to kill the person who is closest to you but everyone isnt that brave, also Shirou wasnt sure of his decision for very long and even after he decides to save Sakura he never said his decision was justified. If you dont find that well written then I dont know what is well written anymore. And atleast read the VN instead of just going through the gallery and skipping the text. |
VnArchJul 18, 2021 5:30 AM
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Cliamh-Solais said: CyborgSaber said: Well there are a lot of reasons why because most people watched the UBW route which is by far Shirous worst route for me at least. I did not like UBW for a lot of reasons and Shirou is the majority of that reason. He's annoying and gets the biggest BS plot armor I have ever seen. His hero of justice is annoying and I feel doesn't fit well in UBW. I didn't like the majority of the characters in this Route honestly including Saber. I feel Shirou really shines in the Vow in the Snow movie and the Heaven's Feel Route mainly because it makes sense how he got powerful in both stories and he's way less annoying. Also his hero of justice persona fits and makes sense in these two stories because he protects Miyu from Kaleid and Sakura from HFs movies. I also I liked him in the fun spinoffs Carnival Phantasm and Today's Menu for Emiya Family but those are just fun to watch. But the series I listed that I liked him in are not as popular as UBWs which again is Shirous worst route IMO. Shirou is a really well written character but the anime he shines in are just not popular according to MAL. Oh god let's breake this down. "Plot armor" Oh god really ? All of his power ups was according to Nasuverse's lore and was explained in ther series. Avalon was implanted in him by Kerry and it was introduced in Fate route. Now battle with Gil. We have Rin specificaly talk about Gil, his NP and how Archer and thuse Shirou's magic is it's natural enemy. But still Shirou is weak so Rin mana transfer with him. Then we have the fight, and all of the explantations Shirou gives about his strategy and how he couldn't do anything if there was another servant against him, and we also see how Gil mock him and holds back for 99% of the fight like he always do. and despite that, his still fails to kill Gil amd was recued by Archer's last attempts. Yeah totally plot armor. About him being annoying it might be your opinion so i can't change it but there's a pretty high chance that you didn't understand his character so he was annoying to you. Now the most important thing you should know: Fate is 1 journey, Shirou's development should be regarded across the 3 routes and HF is it's final desitnation OK what Nasuverse lore the visual novels or the in the anime. I didn't read the visual novels. Yeah he had avalon I knew that. UBWs is a mess in my opinion it's the worst route Shiro makes no sense in this route at all. His motivations make so much more sense in both Heaven's Feel and Vow in the Snow. His power also makes more sense in those stories as well especially Vow in the Snow. Shiro just gets powerful really quite look at when he fought caster and her master two enemies Saber and Rin could do nothing about yet he was able to hold his own (yes Saber is very weak because Shiro isn't a proper master). Yeah his fight with Gil makes sense on paper and Gil held back but it's still BS I don't have a counter because that's my opinion I didn't like the fight. They hype up Gil to be the strongest servent and he gets his arm cut off by a kid with barely any training at all in both magic and hand to hand combat. How should his development be regarded across all three routes UBW and Heaven's Feel are completely different in terms of plot. That makes no sense to me so he summons Saber 3 different times. Shiro is better in HF and Vow in the Snow. He is not good in ubw but then again Rin, Saber and Sakura aren't either. |
Cliamh-Solais said: The answer is simple, they don't get his character, blame ppl's retardness as well as the anime to make it hard to understand him even though it is still totally possible Oh nevermind your one of those people who think they are special. Don't even comment back I'm not gonna answer. I already know where this debate will go it's gonna be a waste of time. |
Cliamh-Solais said: CyborgSaber said: Oh nevermind your one of those people who think they are special. Don't even comment back I'm not gonna answer. I already know where this debate will go it's gonna be a waste of time. Honestly labeling ppl with such traits and then saying don't answer is rather .... cowardky and bad, espexially when you don't know them. You can atleast tell me you opinion about my explanation regarding your plot armor claims. Um I did I quoted your reply to my original comment and I quoted your original comment. FYI you called everyone who doesn't understand Shiro retarded. Have a good day. |
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