Higehiro: After Being Rejected, I Shaved and Took in a High School Runaway (light novel)
| In this season there are two different anime with two characters that have a huge age gap. "Koi to Yobu ni wa Kimochi Warui" is about a playboy character that suddenly falls in love with the meek friend of his high school sister that makes him feel love for the first time. He continues to curt her, by sending flowers and gifts while his sister plays the wingman to his antics and even the mother of the courted girl is amused by the stuff happening while the daughter is clearly uncomfortable with the 10 year older male making such advances. The whole relationship is played of as amusing and the awkward situations are used as comedy, but none of it really lands as the girl just doesn't want any of it and is put in this weird situation with no real way out. I'm not someone that is harsh on unusual romance and I clearly see anybody has their own fetish and kinks, but this show feels just uncomfortable to watch, especially as none of the girls concerns seem to be taken seriously. "Hige wo Soru. Soshite Joshikousei wo Hirou." on the other hand might look very similar, but it touches on a real societal issue about child abuse and poverty. When the main character finds an abandoned teenage girl that seems to be a runaway he allows her to stay at his place for the night. He also clearly turns back all her advances to pay with her body for the privilege (seemingly the only way she knows how to pay back some of the debt she feels she incurred by him letting her stay at his home). There is a clear line drawn by the male main character and the line he said to her after she mentions that others clearly took her offer and that he is a good person is a powerful reminder what makes this clearly better, he says: "No, I'm not a good person, just the other people [that took your offer] are just bad people, I'm just normal." There is a clear difference in quality and understanding how both shows handle such a complicated topic, and while some might find the comedy more to their liking, I think the value of the realness in "Hige wo Soru. Soshite Joshikousei wo Hirou." clearly is the better option (at least as far as we can judge it after episode 1 of both). The Youtube video from Nobita in Japan about a homeless girl also contextualizes the situation and makes clear that this is something a person could really fall into, without any fault of their own, and it is a great companion piece to the show. Edit: I will take this write-up and put it as a recommendation between these shows, because I think one is such a clear better example on how to handle such a complicated topic. |
zwolf12Apr 7, 2021 6:09 AM
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| I'm glad people like it hige wo soru. |
 a wise user of MAL said: Just to clarify, adaptations should absolutely stand on their own |
| I enjoy both but I was saying "This is a real man" every time the MC in this show denied sex from a teenager. I mean think about it, a 16/17 year old is pretty close to adult so they probably have a similar body type to an adult. He was able to control himself though. I applaud him. |
| I gave up on character of the week since it takes too much thinking. I'll just change my forum pfp to whoever I want every week lol. |
Leoradiuju2004 said: I'm glad people like it hige wo soru. We will see about that when we get the full anime release, but so far for me there is a clear winner between the two shows with similar topics and I just wanted to point out why the other show feels so awkward to watch, compared to this. |
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Leoradiuju2004 said: I'm glad people like it hige wo soru. We will see about that when we get the full anime release, but so far for me there is a clear winner between the two shows with similar topics and I just wanted to point out why the other show feels so awkward to watch, compared to this. It is more to the decisions that sayu made and how he must face his traumas about that past. These delicate topics do not go into much depth but they do get to talk a little in the program. |
a wise user of MAL said: Just to clarify, adaptations should absolutely stand on their own |
Leoradiuju2004 said: We will see about that when we get the full anime release, but so far for me there is a clear winner between the two shows with similar topics and I just wanted to point out why the other show feels so awkward to watch, compared to this. It is more to the decisions that sayu made and how he must face his traumas about that past. These delicate topics do not go into much depth but they do get to talk a little in the program. It doesn't really have to, just having that basis in reality is already a lot, we will see how it holds up once more is revealed, I'm sure they will have some explanation and I hope it is a good one. |
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zwolf12 said: I find it baffling that this even has to be said. It was all presented very clearly in the first episode yet there are childish people out there acting outraged and giving terrible takes.In this season there are two different anime with two characters that have a huge age gap. "Koi to Yobu ni wa Kimochi Warui" is about a playboy character that suddenly falls in love with the meek friend of his high school sister that makes him feel love for the first time. He continues to curt her, by sending flowers and gifts while his sister plays the wingman to his antics and even the mother of the courted girl is amused by the stuff happening while the daughter is clearly uncomfortable with the 10 year older male making such advances. The whole relationship is played of as amusing and the awkward situations are used as comedy, but none of it really lands as the girl just doesn't want any of it and is put in this weird situation with no real way out. I'm not someone that is harsh on unusual romance and I clearly see anybody has their own fetish and kinks, but this show feels just uncomfortable to watch, especially as none of the girls concerns seem to be taken seriously. "Hige wo Soru. Soshite Joshikousei wo Hirou." on the other hand might look very similar, but it touches on a real societal issue about child abuse and poverty. When the main character finds an abandoned teenage girl that seems to be a runaway he allows her to stay at his place for the night. He also clearly turns back all her advances to pay with her body for the privilege (seemingly the only way she knows how to pay back some of the debt she feels she incurred by him letting her stay at his home). There is a clear line drawn by the male main character and the line he said to her after she mentions that others clearly took her offer and that he is a good person is a powerful reminder what makes this clearly better, he says: "No, I'm not a good person, just the other people [that took your offer] are just bad people, I'm just normal." There is a clear difference in quality and understanding how both shows handle such a complicated topic, and while some might find the comedy more to their liking, I think the value of the realness in "Hige wo Soru. Soshite Joshikousei wo Hirou." clearly is the better option (at least as far as we can judge it after episode 1 of both). The Youtube video from Nobita in Japan about a homeless girl also contextualizes the situation and makes clear that this is something a person could really fall into, without any fault of their own, and it is a great companion piece to the show. Edit: I will take this write-up and put it as a recommendation between these shows, because I think one is such a clear better example on how to handle such a complicated topic. |
Leoradiuju2004 said: I'm glad people like it hige wo soru. We will see about that.Just wait when Twitter woketards attack this anime and make it even more popular.It will be a win win situation. |
 Scordolo's Recent Reviews To your eternity Vanitas no Karte |
Leoradiuju2004 said: I'm glad people like it hige wo soru. We will see about that.Just wait when Twitter woketards attack this anime and make it even more popular.It will be a win win situation. also, that people say what they want on twitter, I will talk to whoever is interested in anime. |
a wise user of MAL said: Just to clarify, adaptations should absolutely stand on their own |
| I don't like Koi to Yobu ni wa Kimochi Warui because it is boring. But the main girl did not look unconformable with the older male. I think you are exaggerating |
| After watching episodes 2 and 3 I can say that I'm impressed, less with the topic of Sayus past, that didn't come up yet, but with the sexuality and how it is depicted. The show clearly has to walk a tightrope between the eroticism of the different characters and so far it did so flawlessly. There are 4 examples for this: 1. Yoshidas lust for Gotou, his main love interest that rejects him at the start. She is depicted as a clearly erotic being out of his view and if the anime wants to she looks incredible hot in whatever she is doing (we don't know yet if it is accidental or on purpose). 2. Mishima on the other hand is an adult with a childish personality and behavior. She is clearly interested in Yoshida, but he is incredibly unaware of her advances and while she tries to be erotic in her advances it is clumsy at best. When she gets all touchy-feely she gets at least some reaction out of Yoshida, but it is clear that he has no real interest in her (yet). 3. Mayu having sex with some random stranger in exchange for him letting her stay at his home is dark and emotionless for a reason. There is as little eroticism as possible in this scene, and it is depicted as what it is, a transaction of emotionless sex for a favor, sad but Mayus reality after she left her home. 4. Mayus attempts to seduce Yoshida. They did a pretty good job of making her body look like that of a teenager, compared to the older woman in the show and even when she tries to use her sex appeal, while sexy, she has a nice body after all, it comes across as clumsy and forced, even assisted by her pretty nice underwear. To get this many details right on a topic like this is like riding a razors edge and I really wanted to give this anime the props it deserves, so far it is impressive how well they handled that ride and I seriously hope they can keep this up! |
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| Koi to Yobu very much wants to just be funny so I don't think it much cares about its subject matter. The fact that I and apparently plenty of others find it deeply creepy and oh so very unfunny is totally its own fault and no-one should give a fuck about it. This show is something else, it's trying to make drama out of a serious subject, but also needs to entertain at the same time, it deserves our attention and some leniency if it stumbles along the way. |
| Quantum ille canis est in fenestra |
| Now that we are nearing the end, here is my take on what developed in the meantime. The show really fell off in the second half, but it is not nearly as bad as some people make it seem. At least the show exposes a whole host of problem with the Japanese culture and social systems. To start with there is the bullying, that could have been prevented in a modern school setting in most countries, it is already well known that the Japanese teaching and school system is abysmal in these cases (one of the reason why student suicide is very high, compared to other places). It is an amazing visual that, to prevent suicide, instead of giving student access to mental healthcare, or taking measures against bullying, they put up a fence so suicidal students can't jump off the roof... The second giant point is the mental health problems that completely get shoved under the rug. From the bully victim (that could have received help form a school psychiatrist that is standard in other countries), to Sayu that needed professional help dealing with her family situation (could have even helped alarm social custody government agencies), to the brother that seems intelligent but is clearly in a thinking pattern that can get incredible harmful and most obviously the mother that not just has a massive psychological problem of hating her kid (that is a condition that happens to some parents after birth), but she also has giant problems of self awareness, self-worth, narcissism and many other problems related to a badly processed break up. It is well known that mental illnesses are ignored in Japan 'to save face' or because it just doesn't get taken serious, but this show shone a spotlight on it the size of the sun on this topic. Most of the problems in the show could have been solved with some regular visits to a therapist from the mother alone. The brother is also a prime example of doing anything to keep family problems under wraps, he went as far as to give his sister a shitload of money, because he recognized the unhealthy relationship his mother and sister had, but it never sprung to his mind to find help outside their family with all that money? Find a therapist for the clearly mentally damaged mother, contact a shelter, or at least ask for help for some ideas of what to do. And last but not least the resolution was absolutely bad, probably the worst part in the show yet, part of that might be just cultural differences (like that he couldn't really say anything because you are not allowed to butt into family matters) and part of it is just Yoshida being the uber nice guy that he is, but man this resolution was bad. They basically capitulated in front of a clearly mentally ill person, reinforcing her behaviour in a way by not telling her that it is actually her that is in the wrong. I'm not a psychiatrist, but I dealt with situations in a similar vein before and I played out my responses of what I would do in Yoshidas situation before he did his begging and there were so many lines of attacks towards the mother that could have not just solved the situation better but also could have forced the mother to confront herself (and help her that way, especially with a person with those problems it might be better to break her, so she can accept that she needs help for herself). The super soft approach of just begging her already broke her mask a little, and it is kind of on brand with the personality they built for Yoshida, but it is clearly the least effective way to deal with the mother. |
zwolf12Jun 21, 2021 4:11 PM
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| And now we are here in the end of the season, Koikimo ended up being the good take on the age gap thing while this series has become pure wish fulfillment. The irony. |
| This thread and the show just age like milk. The way the bullying was copy-pasted into the show just made Sayu as this arrogant brat. Nearly tarnished all my sympathy toward her. Taking a step-back and looking into the show nearly every single character seem to run on two brain cells other than Gotou. And I heard the mom was the worst of them all but I didn’t make it that far to comment of her. |
error5000 said: And now we are here in the end of the season, Koikimo ended up being the good take on the age gap thing while this series has become pure wish fulfillment. The irony. I don't think anything the male character did in that show can validate the show in general, unless you are talking mental health of the male protagonist, which would be sad, but also incredible bad taste because everything is played for laughs and I don't know if playing someones mental health problems for laugh would make the show better. LustKamisama said: This thread and the show just age like milk. The way the bullying was copy-pasted into the show just made Sayu as this arrogant brat. Nearly tarnished all my sympathy toward her. Taking a step-back and looking into the show nearly every single character seem to run on two brain cells other than Gotou. And I heard the mom was the worst of them all but I didn’t make it that far to comment of her. I don't think any of my early points became invalid with the second half, unless we get to some Usagi Drop finale. Sayus problems make sense, they are just convoluted and it feels like the author had no grant idea from the start and just filled out the blanks, so her behaviors would make sense in the end. Even if Sayu is a brat, she is clearly a child that never learned certain things because of her families' situation, so it would make sense that she is a brat. skysurf said: error5000 said: Koikimo ended up being the good take on the age gap thing ah yes, the "good take" of having an adult creep harass the school girl against her will til she slowly gives in 🙄 @zwolf12 first half was great, but on the second half higehiro lost credibility badly with the unnecessarily convoluted sad backstory that didn't make much sense (it seemed as if the author tried too hard to force many sad reasons at once in order to justify Sayu's dumb actions), but I can appreciate your interesting take on recognizing mental health problems as one important overarching theme in this show. btw those suicide prevention structures may seem silly since you would think people would just find another place if they're really committed, but the theory is that suicidal thought is short-lived (wikipedia has some good sources about their efficacy). Also, they're not exclusive to Japan. Check this sad example in China and also in the US. I don't think the fences are generally a bad idea, for the reasons you mentioned, but it feels incredible cynical if that is the only prevention method used and often seems to be the case, especially in Asian countries where mental health is still swept under the rug more often than not. I remember the mentioned Foxcon case in China where they installed similar fences because workers would kill themselves constantly, but instead of lowering workloads or working on some better working conditions / the mental health support, they installed fences to stop jumping from the building suicides. According to the article they at least seemed to up the salarys, not sure how much that helped though. |
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skysurf said: zwolf12 said: I don't think the fences are generally a bad idea, for the reasons you mentioned, but it feels incredible cynical if that is the only prevention method used If we assume that the barriers were the only thing they did about the incident, I agree; that's basically dealing with the "symptoms" only instead of trying to treat the root cause through psychological therapy. btw about your comment regarding the brother being an example of hiding things, honestly that character to me seems simply badly written because it really doesn't make much sense to just give some cash to the teen sister and send her off, since he had MANY other options to consider (e.g. try to talk some sense into her, offer her to stay at his place, rent some apartment for her, etc)... The problem is that if he had taken any reasonable choice (and demonstrate that he has a functioning brain), then Sayu wouldn't have had to prostitute herself, so at the end it comes across as "plot device" actions that didn't really fit the character that the brother was supposed to be (i.e. to care for Sayu). The brother is indeed a writing problem, but we also have to consider that he seemingly grew up under the same mother, so some kind of weird thinking would be expected. I wouldn't consider him to be normal, just because he seems to be doing well in terms of money and work, on the contrary there are studies out there that classify a lot of managers as psychopaths of different kinds and I would argue he is far from an exception on that front. Maybe he is just a guy that has problems to emphasize with other and thinks everything should be solvable by throwing money at it, even if it is his teenage sister that is running away from home. |
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skysurf said: error5000 said: Koikimo ended up being the good take on the age gap thing ah yes, the "good take" of having an adult creep harass the school girl against her will til she slowly gives in 🙄 If that's what you got of the show you very likely didn't even watch more than one episode. Also, since when is sending gifts considered harassment?. Most of the critics of the show i see are due to the age gap thing and how supposedly creepy it is, but hey, if it wasn't adult it would be okay right? I think it is good series like this show every now on then, that way we get to expose the kind of fallacious and toxic mindset some people have around here. |
zwolf12 said: LustKamisama said: This thread and the show just age like milk. The way the bullying was copy-pasted into the show just made Sayu as this arrogant brat. Nearly tarnished all my sympathy toward her. Taking a step-back and looking into the show nearly every single character seem to run on two brain cells other than Gotou. And I heard the mom was the worst of them all but I didn’t make it that far to comment of her. I don't think any of my early points became invalid with the second half, unless we get to some Usagi Drop finale. Sayus problems make sense, they are just convoluted and it feels like the author had no grant idea from the start and just filled out the blanks, so her behaviors would make sense in the end. Even if Sayu is a brat, she is clearly a child that never learned certain things because of her families' situation, so it would make sense that she is a brat. I actually disagree, I think these two are simply in the same playing field now that hige drops the ball that hard. Haven't watch Koi but my understanding is it's a handsome rich boy being annoyingly persistent to an underage girl. First, the underage/age gap is common for both shows I so don't think worth noting for this comparison. Second, I would assume the controversial part is MC behavior which is surprising considering these kinds of "Handsome Rich Guy being Persistent" troupe is very common in C-Drama, K-Drama, Josei. It usually targeted teenage girls who liked this as a fetish. In the Chinese community, there will be at least 1 drama each season (whether korean or Chinese) with this type of behavior, and it sells like hot cake. The conflicting part comes in because she is underaged so the issue is put on the moral pedestal. As for Hige, the only thing it got going for it is the theme of self-loathing or Sayu's lack of self-love. Many have stated that Yoshida is a good man with good morals but the question always been why didn't he just turn her over to the authority. It could be justified as her family's problem is so bad that not fixing it won't solve the root problem. It acts like a self-antidote for the viewer. The way they handle her back story is extremely lackluster, just like you said the author just wanted to sell this age-gap relationship and anything after that is just padded on. The two shows' main theme is to just sell age-gap romance with each using different troupes of MC from romance. If you want to condemn the morality of the age gap sure but I don't see how one is better than the other. My best bet is males wouldn't tend to like the romance route like Koi because we can't relate to it thus find it creepy but it's josei and many females find it attractive. |
LustKamisama said: zwolf12 said: I don't think any of my early points became invalid with the second half, unless we get to some Usagi Drop finale. Sayus problems make sense, they are just convoluted and it feels like the author had no grant idea from the start and just filled out the blanks, so her behaviors would make sense in the end. Even if Sayu is a brat, she is clearly a child that never learned certain things because of her families' situation, so it would make sense that she is a brat. I actually disagree, I think these two are simply in the same playing field now that hige drops the ball that hard. Haven't watch Koi but my understanding is it's a handsome rich boy being annoyingly persistent to an underage girl. First, the underage/age gap is common for both shows I so don't think worth noting for this comparison. Second, I would assume the controversial part is MC behavior which is surprising considering these kinds of "Handsome Rich Guy being Persistent" troupe is very common in C-Drama, K-Drama, Josei. It usually targeted teenage girls who liked this as a fetish. In the Chinese community, there will be at least 1 drama each season (whether korean or Chinese) with this type of behavior, and it sells like hot cake. The conflicting part comes in because she is underaged so the issue is put on the moral pedestal. As for Hige, the only thing it got going for it is the theme of self-loathing or Sayu's lack of self-love. Many have stated that Yoshida is a good man with good morals but the question always been why didn't he just turn her over to the authority. It could be justified as her family's problem is so bad that not fixing it won't solve the root problem. It acts like a self-antidote for the viewer. The way they handle her back story is extremely lackluster, just like you said the author just wanted to sell this age-gap relationship and anything after that is just padded on. The two shows' main theme is to just sell age-gap romance with each using different troupes of MC from romance. If you want to condemn the morality of the age gap sure but I don't see how one is better than the other. My best bet is males wouldn't tend to like the romance route like Koi because we can't relate to it thus find it creepy but it's josei and many females find it attractive. Not to sound condescending, but are you really trying to argue that both shows are equally bad without having watched one of the shows? To be honest, you can go and watch the first episode and it will already be worse in the terms discussed than anything of the whole season of Higehiro. The guy is not just persistent, she clearly states that she wants nothing to do with the guy and even her family and best friend joins in bullying her, with no chance for her to find any safe space from the (mild) but constant harassment about the topic. |
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zwolf12 said: LustKamisama said: I actually disagree, I think these two are simply in the same playing field now that hige drops the ball that hard. Haven't watch Koi but my understanding is it's a handsome rich boy being annoyingly persistent to an underage girl. First, the underage/age gap is common for both shows I so don't think worth noting for this comparison. Second, I would assume the controversial part is MC behavior which is surprising considering these kinds of "Handsome Rich Guy being Persistent" troupe is very common in C-Drama, K-Drama, Josei. It usually targeted teenage girls who liked this as a fetish. In the Chinese community, there will be at least 1 drama each season (whether korean or Chinese) with this type of behavior, and it sells like hot cake. The conflicting part comes in because she is underaged so the issue is put on the moral pedestal. As for Hige, the only thing it got going for it is the theme of self-loathing or Sayu's lack of self-love. Many have stated that Yoshida is a good man with good morals but the question always been why didn't he just turn her over to the authority. It could be justified as her family's problem is so bad that not fixing it won't solve the root problem. It acts like a self-antidote for the viewer. The way they handle her back story is extremely lackluster, just like you said the author just wanted to sell this age-gap relationship and anything after that is just padded on. The two shows' main theme is to just sell age-gap romance with each using different troupes of MC from romance. If you want to condemn the morality of the age gap sure but I don't see how one is better than the other. My best bet is males wouldn't tend to like the romance route like Koi because we can't relate to it thus find it creepy but it's josei and many females find it attractive. Not to sound condescending, but are you really trying to argue that both shows are equally bad without having watched one of the shows? To be honest, you can go and watch the first episode and it will already be worse in the terms discussed than anything of the whole season of Higehiro. The guy is not just persistent, she clearly states that she wants nothing to do with the guy and even her family and best friend joins in bullying her, with no chance for her to find any safe space from the (mild) but constant harassment about the topic. Yes, I would say it’s equally as bad. I didn’t watch it because it just sound like run of the mill office K-drama I hear my friends talking every meetup. If the problem at hand isn’t the moral age-gap but the romance pursuit then it simply taste different as people do look for these as a fetish/kink. Argument for romanizing stalking could count but yoshida also took upon himself to take in a JK student. I want to believe any adult with decency will look past the fictional fantasy and not try either of these attempts. |
Bear_from_cave said: LustKamisama said: Yes, I would say it’s equally as bad. I didn’t watch it because it just sound like run of the mill office K-drama I hear my friends talking every meetup. If the problem at hand isn’t the moral age-gap but the romance pursuit then it simply taste different as people do look for these as a fetish/kink. Argument for romanizing stalking could count but yoshida also took upon himself to take in a JK student. I want to believe any adult with decency will look past the fictional fantasy and not try either of these attempts. While I don't think both shows being equally bad when it comes to initial premise, in Higehiro the relationship may be worse idea because on top of age gap you have Yoshida being Sayu's "savior" which strikes me as bad idea for the already unbalanced relationship. Not that 27 year old manchild using inexperienced teenager ten year younger as training wheels for his first serious relationship where he tries to unlearns his horrible habits is all that great, but at least I can believe Koikimo couple only will break up in few years with both parties at least wiser a bit after. As for handling delicate topics, while Koikimo romanticize being stalking by much older guy, Higehiro maybe even outdoes it with using rapist to show Sayu feels safe now because she doesn't fear sharing workplace with her assaulter, basically redeeming him as usually cool guy after committing rape + blackmail + attempted mindbreak (by forcing Sayu to agree to her own rape and almost convincing her it's what she's for and what she deserves from life) and by contrast to forceful rape downplaying the fact that even when not blackmailing he's serial rapist because there is no way homeless teenager that can be kicked out to the streets or reported to police without cooperation can give anything close to actual consent to sex. Yaguchi’s redemption really strike a wtf with me. What purpose did it serves for that plot line. His whole character was built to be despised as it’s what Yoshida and the narrative was condemning up till this point. And then afterward he just apologized and they just went on and work together. Sends a contradicting message if I have to say if these scumbags is showcased like that. |
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