| You might have seen one of those white doll black doll videos. I'm asking because of Princess and the Frog, Disney's last mainstream traditional/2D animation, whose underperformance at the box office ended that legacy. It wasn't going to do very well anyway, having to compete against so many fancy CG animations at the time, and having such a weird premise compared to other Disney princess movies, but I've always suspected the characters all being black had something to do with it too. |
EzekielDec 29, 2020 9:39 AM
| You really think that matters to box office sales? Nothing wrong with black characters, it's not their fault if that movie sucks. Actually though it did decently well. Disney is an asshole for giving up on 2D! >:O |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
| Disney movie just aren't great anymore period. xMizu_ said: You really think that matters to box office sales? Nothing wrong with black characters, it's not their fault if that movie sucks. I will would say that was last decent Disney movie. I think 2D was going out the window when that was being made. |
Order-Sol said: Disney movie just aren't great anymore period. xMizu_ said: You really think that matters to box office sales? Nothing wrong with black characters, it's not their fault if that movie sucks. I will would say that was last decent Disney movie. I think 2D was going out the window when that was being made. There's nothing stopping them from making more, you realize that right? Anime is still 2D... Disney fell in love with 3D just a bit more hardcore than you'd expect. |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
xMizu_ said: Order-Sol said: Disney movie just aren't great anymore period. I will would say that was last decent Disney movie. I think 2D was going out the window when that was being made. There's nothing stopping them from making more, you realize that right? Anime is still 2D... Disney fell in love with 3D just a bit more hardcore than you'd expect. 3D movies make more money so no need to. Anime rarely changed however slightly uglier now, CGI in places where it don't belong a lot anime. |
| Princess and the frog was pretty good though. After that only Tangled, Brave, Big hero 6, Zootopia and Moana have been watchable. |
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| It didn't perform all that bad, for 21st century 2d theatrical disney film standards at least. Treasure planet, atlantis, home on the range and winnie the pooh performed much worse at the box office with the only films performing as good as the princess and the frog being brother bear and lilo & stitch which also include what the progressives call a "diverse" cast. So no kids are not racist they're just stupid for not liking 2d animation. Or maybe disney sabotaged their 2d films to focus exclusively on 3d idk. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
| i stopped watching most Disney films just because the entire formula was repetitive. i think one of the few ones i still enjoy to this day was Atlantis, lion king, mulan, and ya i think that's it as far as old 2d ones. I've not actually seen princess and the frog. |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
Order-Sol said: xMizu_ said: There's nothing stopping them from making more, you realize that right? Anime is still 2D... Disney fell in love with 3D just a bit more hardcore than you'd expect. 3D movies make more money so no need to. Anime rarely changed however slightly uglier now, CGI in places where it don't belong a lot anime. Not a good reason... Disney isn't supposed to answer to stockholders. They're supposed to make their fans happy. Yeah, even animes do use 3D a lot. That's because they're always experimenting. See how One Piece's art style is always changing? It's because, despite how much we all love the traditional style, stagnation will always bring death. However I think what anime shows us is that there will always be a place for 2D, drawn animations. Western markets need to wise up. I mean, just look at the success of Demon Slayer!~ |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
Theo1899 said: It didn't perform all that bad, for 21st century 2d theatrical disney film standards at least. Treasure planet, atlantis, home on the range and winnie the pooh performed much worse at the box office with the only films performing as good as the princess and the frog being brother bear and lilo & stitch which also include what the progressives call a "diverse" cast. So no kids are not racist they're just stupid for not liking 2d animation. Or maybe disney sabotaged their 2d films to focus exclusively on 3d idk. Are you sure? Dr. Kenneth Clark found the kids in his white doll, black doll tests preferring the white dolls in the 1940s. When the tests are repeated decades later, the kids still usually prefer the white dolls. Yeah, it was a continued run of not so good movies that ended hand-drawn animation. Disney misunderstood, thinking people didn't want to see hand-drawn animation anymore. But if people didn't care about it anymore, then there wouldn't be hugely popular 2D shows airing on Cartoon Network and Fox. Along with cheaper but appreciated shows on Netflix. Rick and Morty, Avatar/Korra, Adventure Time, Bob's Burgers and Family Guy are pretty much a part of current pop culture, along with others. |
EzekielDec 29, 2020 12:15 PM
| I actually think it has more something to do that most people prefer CGI over 2D animation. I believe most people prefer modernity at all cost, just like a lot of MAL users even prefer bad digital animation (your average TV show) over high-quality cell animation (old movies and OVAs). However, I don't want to downplay bias against non-white minorities, because its definitely real, but it's hard to say how much it really affects a movie's succes. I'm sure a movie with a "nerdy men" demographic could suffer from this, judging from how Star Wars fans on Youtube behave... |
| Aaanyways, I earlier just wrote my own opinion of Disney movies, but lets go back to you asking "Are kids racist" If kids were racist, why would kids like movies like Moana, Aladdin, Mulan or Coco? And even more if thinking of other cultures in Disney movies, how about Brave or Frozen? The characters are white for sure, but are still cleary showing a culture. |
|
Karinara said: Aaanyways, I earlier just wrote my own opinion of Disney movies, but lets go back to you asking "Are kids racist" If kids were racist, why would kids like movies like Moana, Aladdin, Mulan or Coco? And even more if thinking of other cultures in Disney movies, how about Brave or Frozen? The characters are white for sure, but are still cleary showing a culture. Yeah, I think at this point we all know that racism is indoctrinated. This 'white doll' test is probably more evidence that the desires of children aren't to be taken so seriously. |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
xMizu_ said: Disney is an asshole for giving up on 2D! Damn straight, I really miss seeing all those ads of upcoming 2D animated theatrical films on TV back then... Pokémon movies don't even get huge theatrical releases in the West anymore and nobody in the West makes 2D animated movies anymore...... |
 |
Fario-P said: xMizu_ said: Disney is an asshole for giving up on 2D! Damn straight, I really miss seeing all those ads of upcoming 2D animated theatrical films on TV back then... Pokémon movies don't even get huge theatrical releases in the West anymore and nobody in the West makes 2D animated movies anymore...... Yeah we only have the anime movies like Demon Hunter which just broke Spirited Away's box office record. Can't help but think they're making a mistake XD |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
Karinara said: Aaanyways, I earlier just wrote my own opinion of Disney movies, but lets go back to you asking "Are kids racist" If kids were racist, why would kids like movies like Moana, Aladdin, Mulan or Coco? And even more if thinking of other cultures in Disney movies, how about Brave or Frozen? The characters are white for sure, but are still cleary showing a culture. technically brave is Pixar and they almost always have been 3d animations |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
hazarddex said: Karinara said: Aaanyways, I earlier just wrote my own opinion of Disney movies, but lets go back to you asking "Are kids racist" If kids were racist, why would kids like movies like Moana, Aladdin, Mulan or Coco? And even more if thinking of other cultures in Disney movies, how about Brave or Frozen? The characters are white for sure, but are still cleary showing a culture. technically brave is Pixar and they almost always have been 3d animations Sure, I wasn't commenting the fight between 2d and 3d, but I was still on the topic of being racist. |
|
operationvalkyri said: Aladdin and Mulan did pretty well and they did not feature white characters. Don't forget Robin Hood where everybody is an animal. If Princess and the Frog did not do well, it's because it was quite uninteresting. I only watched it once and was bored out of my mind. Aladdin and Mulan aren't black, though. Aladdin was even voiced by a white boy. Talking animals is a totally different beast. |
operationvalkyri said: Ezekiel said: I thought when you said racism you meant prejudice against anybody from a different race, not specifically against black people. When one is prejudiced, they're usually prejudiced against 'the other'. Aladdin and Mulan aren't black, though. Aladdin was even voiced by a white boy. Talking animals is a totally different beast. Nah, blacks get more racism than Asians. It depends on the specific scene of Aladdin. In many scenes, he isn't even brown. |
| @Ezekiel pretty sure the reason Princess and the Frog, not selling well had less to do with racism and more to do with bad timing. it literally came out at the same time as Avatar they were literally trying to compete with James Cameron who made things like, The Terminator, Terminator 2, Aliens. that is the equivalence of trying to compete with miyazaki in anime movies. |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
hazarddex said: @Ezekiel pretty sure the reason Princess and the Frog, not selling well had less to do with racism and more to do with bad timing. it literally came out at the same time as Avatar they were literally trying to compete with James Cameron who made things like, The Terminator, Terminator 2, Aliens. that is the equivalence of trying to compete with miyazaki in anime movies. That's a very good point. Yeah, definitely not a good movie then to decide the end of hand-drawn animation on. Makes me feel better about boycotting all of CG animation the last three years and three months. |
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