| I can see this becoming a huge problem in the future, especially if they continue to go after shows such as Gintama or Fairy Tail which a lot of people would love to buy on DVD. I honestly don't know where i stand at the moment since i do enjoy the free streaming of CR...Will post more thoughts later after i thought about it some more. |
| I see it as a problem only because stuff that CR does, sub groups won't touch, which means we're reliant on CR rips to watch the anime and CR rips lack proper TS so we lose. |
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| I'm not interested in buying the dvd's but neutralizer is right, we're stuck with CRs translation (which forces us not only to wait a week before the release - I don't think anyone here is a member - but also spams commercials in the middle of an episode). And I was hoping Fairy Tail would have Giant Glowing Karaoke Attack Names!! WAIT WHAT ??! Would you BUY Asura Cryin'? |
| The industry is doing horribly in terms of DVD sales. The only reason those series aren't being licensed is the belief there won't be enough purchases to warrant the fees. The alternative way for the anime to make a (small) amount of money for its creators in foreign markets is Crunchyroll. This doesn't directly conflict with sub groups, so it gives the consumer BOTH choices, while being a decent play for the companies. Seems like a win win situation, no? |
| I too listen to ANNcast (and I'm not in the least ashamed of it, it's a really good podcast) and heard Zac's reply. Honestly, I agree with him to an extent. Many shows CR picks up are shows that no one wants and will probably remain available as streaming only. There are some simulcasts (some of which chinlamp mentioned), on the other hand, that I personally don't see staying online only forever. I guess only time will tell. Besides, it's not impossible for CR shows to get full R1 licenses, as Funimation has proved (but they are all Gonzo titles, not sure how much they count since Funimation seems to have some sort of deal with them). Funimation might have passed on a lot of these shows, but that doesn't mean other R1 companies (such as Section23, Nozomi, or Media Blasters) won't scoop them up at some point for a quick sub-only release (which is fine by me, as a sub-only release is far better than no release at all). Personally, I prefer watching my anime on DVD, so while all this legal streaming is nice as a preview, I do want to be able to buy the shows on DVD at some point, so I sincerely hope that there is hope some of these will see such a release in the foreseeable future. =/ |
| That quote is pretty absurd. Shows no one wants on CR? What about Naruto? It's licensed by Viz, but being simulcasted on Crunchyroll. - Hayate no Gotoku was recently released by Bandai - Natsu no Arashi is likely to be licensed as the authors previous work, School Rumble, was licensed and successful - Reborn already has the manga being translated by Viz, so I see them picking up the anime soon. I was really surprised it hadn't been picked up yet - Fairy Tail is a hugely popular manga, whose author is very successful and also was an assistant to the DBZ author That's to name a few. I honestly doubt FUNimation would turn down Fairy Tail. The author of One Piece has a relationship with the author of Fairy Tail and both are similar. I don't know who these people are on ANNCast, but they speak some pretty good BS. |
alamarco said: I don't know who these people are on ANNCast, but they speak some pretty good BS. If it was any other podcast, I would agree. But Zac Bertschy (Executive Editor of Anime News Network) and Justin Sevakis (New Media Director of Anime News Network) are not simply observers with nothing but speculation to fuel their rants, they have actual access to knowledge average fans do not. Not saying that makes Zac 100% right, but it certainly doesn't make him completely wrong either. |
chinlamp said: The two guys on ANNCast are anime reporters. Both of them have a long history in the anime industry, the guy who made the quote was a fansubber in the early days of VHS import anime. Both of them are pretty connected to the people in various American Anime Companies, which is why this worries me. You represent roughly 1-5 percent of the people affected by this; the people who want to buy localized DVDs even when streams and downloads of the same are available. For you, I completely agree that the situation is a detriment. For the other 95-99 percent, including most consumers as well as the anime companies themselves, this is greatly beneficial. |
| I want DVD's. |
| This is a serious post. You're not allowed to delete it. |
chinlamp said: And what on Earth makes you think only 1-5 percent of consumers want the DVD's? The fact that tens, sometimes hundreds of thousands of people download anime, yet sales outside of Japan very rarely break a few thousand DVDs? I'm not fond of this sort of news. I value my DVD collection and want to keep collecting series I enjoy, without paying generally absurd R2 pricing. The likes of CR and other streaming is ruining the anime scene since it makes anime harder to find for download, and reduces the chances it will be licensed otherwise. I download to preview and buy the things I enjoy. I don't consider eyecancer to be a preview, which means I'll be buying less in the future. |
Asako said: The fact that tens, sometimes hundreds of thousands of people download anime, yet sales outside of Japan very rarely break a few thousand DVDs? Well, we just want to be able to watch anime free on TV like the Japanese can, but we can't. I wonder how US TV shows sell in other countries. |
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neutralizer said: Asako said: The fact that tens, sometimes hundreds of thousands of people download anime, yet sales outside of Japan very rarely break a few thousand DVDs? Well, we just want to be able to watch anime free on TV like the Japanese can, but we can't. I wonder how US TV shows sell in other countries. Expect Japanese have to most of the time pay extra for a lot of the channels that it comes out on. |
neutralizer said: Well, we just want to be able to watch anime free on TV like the Japanese can, but we can't. I wonder how US TV shows sell in other countries. Most anime isn't on free TV. Anime channels tend to be premium subscription extras. This is a very common misconception. Some American shows sell well, here at least. Box sets that are very cheap (like $20-40 a season) tend to do reasonably. Heroes, Lost, all that sort of stuff. Certainly far more sales than anime ever sees. |
| I don't believe this at all, do you really think Viz isn't going to grab Tegami Bacchi, do you think no one will grab Fairy Tail, no this is BS. And I am fine with Crunchyroll, you want to watch an anime the week of, get the membership, want to watch it for free, wait a week, hell most fansub groups aren't that fast. They are even really working on making it worldwide, this unfortunately has hurt one show's airing on Crunchyroll(Fairy Tail) but it is getting better. |
| My anime list |
chinlamp said: How is it beneficial? And no, I don't want to buy localised DVD's, I just want to buy the DVD's so that I have a hard copy. Excuse me for not wanting to torrent everything but rather support an industry I like. And what on Earth makes you think only 1-5 percent of consumers want the DVD's? No need to get pissy, angry anime fan. Since you didn't read my first post in this topic, which explained everything, I'll just copy and paste it; The industry is doing horribly in terms of DVD sales. The only reason those series aren't being licensed is the belief there won't be enough purchases to warrant the fees. The alternative way for the anime to make a (small) amount of money for its creators in foreign markets is Crunchyroll. This doesn't directly conflict with sub groups, so it gives the consumer BOTH choices, while being a decent play for the companies. Seems like a win win situation, no? So yes, there are people like yourself who want to buy localized DVDs, instead of simply burning them from fansubs, or watching it on a stream...but they're in the minority, which the anime production companies have long since figured out. As for "supporting the industry", if you feel so passionately about it, you can always just import DVDs straight from Japan. You do realize that? |
| CR just gets on my nerves all together. They have those stinking soft subs.... |
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| What I'm wondering is why Funimation didn't decide on licensing Fairy Tale. I mean, it's meant to be strikingly similar to One Piece which is obviously very popular outside Japan. |
YoungVagabond said: This doesn't directly conflict with sub groups, so it gives the consumer BOTH choices, The problem is... it does, when CR issues C&Ds to fansub groups to back off their shows. Very few groups bother with shows CR picks up, which means CR rips are the only option, and as proven by a few people now, CR subs are far from optimal. |
Asako said: YoungVagabond said: This doesn't directly conflict with sub groups, so it gives the consumer BOTH choices, The problem is... it does, when CR issues C&Ds to fansub groups to back off their shows. Very few groups bother with shows CR picks up, which means CR rips are the only option, and as proven by a few people now, CR subs are far from optimal. Interesting. I've personally seen fansubs for several series also available on CR, so I assumed that their cease and desist notices had little effect. In general, CR tends to pick up more popular series, and usually, there is at least one group enterprising enough to ignore their threats, and go through with a full sub. I guess we'll have to see. I use CR very occasionally, but have never had any problems getting physical downloads of anime series, either. |
YoungVagabond said: In general, CR tends to pick up more popular series, and usually, there is at least one group enterprising enough to ignore their threats, and go through with a full sub. Care to provide a few examples? I can't think of many 'real' groups (as opposed to random CN speedsubbers or script rippers) that do CR shows. SFW have done Natsu no Arashi, which I think CR had. I know they have the new season, which SFW also plans to do. |
| Fairy tale licensed is only lasting 30 days per episode release and it's for CR paid members only, so I guess if Funi wanted it, then it will be at least 2 months minimum if they release it in 4-6 episode DVD. |
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Asako said: YoungVagabond said: In general, CR tends to pick up more popular series, and usually, there is at least one group enterprising enough to ignore their threats, and go through with a full sub. Care to provide a few examples? I can't think of many 'real' groups (as opposed to random CN speedsubbers or script rippers) that do CR shows. SFW have done Natsu no Arashi, which I think CR had. I know they have the new season, which SFW also plans to do. Yeah; both seasons of Chi's Sweet Home, and while I don't/haven't watched them, I believe both Skip Beat and Naruto Shippuden? |
| @chinlamp, @-Jenny: Thanks for the information. They do seem reliable, but what they said just wasn't correct. An anime being on CR doesn't have anything to do with it being licensed for DVD sale. Just look at my examples, there are plenty of anime on CR that are going to DVD. Another example would be Strike Witches. Was shown on CR and FUNimation plan to release uncensored DVDs. I'm not worried one bit, CR seems to be heading in the right direction. Anime fans can get simulcast anime, and still be able to buy DVDs when shows get released. It might even promote more shows because companies can take stats from CR on how many views certain anime had and figure out what to license from that. |
| but its killing FAL. :< |
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Maora said: but its killing FAL. :< This :( |
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YoungVagabond said: Yeah; both seasons of Chi's Sweet Home, and while I don't/haven't watched them, I believe both Skip Beat and Naruto Shippuden? AFAIK the only Chi subs are streamrippers. Not sure about Skip Beat, but I know Naruto has subbers, but it's a slightly different case as it's a long running series that predates streams and has an established fanbase in fansubs. |
Asako said: YoungVagabond said: Yeah; both seasons of Chi's Sweet Home, and while I don't/haven't watched them, I believe both Skip Beat and Naruto Shippuden? AFAIK the only Chi subs are streamrippers. Not sure about Skip Beat, but I know Naruto has subbers, but it's a slightly different case as it's a long running series that predates streams and has an established fanbase in fansubs. The first season was subbed by Yoroshiku and not from a streamrip. I didn't watch the second season of Chi so I wouldn't know. Ureshii was doing Skip Beat and then stalled/dropped it which was where the streamrippers took over. |
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neutralizer said: The first season was subbed by Yoroshiku and not from a streamrip. I didn't watch the second season of Chi so I wouldn't know. Ureshii was doing Skip Beat and then stalled/dropped it which was where the streamrippers took over. Yes, sorry. I know the first season was fansubbed, but wasn't aware it was streamed so wasn't counting it. Only the second season which CR picked up. Are you sure Ureshii didn't drop Skip Beat when it was picked up for streaming? Or was it streamed from the beginning? (I dislike streams so don't pay attention to what they pick up when). |
Asako said: Chihiro Fansubs have plans for releasing both Asura Cryin' 2 and Sasameki Koto. They don't seem to mind CR since they subbed Gendai Mahou last season (although not popular), but I still despise CR anyways.YoungVagabond said: In general, CR tends to pick up more popular series, and usually, there is at least one group enterprising enough to ignore their threats, and go through with a full sub. Care to provide a few examples? I can't think of many 'real' groups (as opposed to random CN speedsubbers or script rippers) that do CR shows. SFW have done Natsu no Arashi, which I think CR had. I know they have the new season, which SFW also plans to do. |
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Maora said: but its killing FAL. :< You rather play your little fantasy game then have anime licensed? |
| My anime list |
mitamaking said: You rather play your little fantasy game then have anime licensed? Considering very few people on MAL buy anime, I imagine so, yes. All licensing does is make it a little more difficult to download anime. Since so few people buy it, they find licensing more of a bother than a good thing. For those of us who do collect, licensing (by real companies, not streamers) is great because we get more for our collection at cheaper prices than R2s. Though I do very rarely buy without having seen a show, so if I can't watch it first, they're just losing my money... but that's not really relevant to this topic. |
| It straight up pisses me the hell off....... |
Well one thing I've learned from this experience, is that a princess is still a princesss even when she is naked. |
| @Asako I think the anime industry is exactly like the movie industry. You have 3 kinds of people: - Those who don't buy a thing and pirate every movie - Those who pirate movies and buy them if they're good - Those who buy everything and pirate nothing Now without seeing concrete statistics one can only speculate at the numbers of each category. Personally, my buddies all collect anime and their collections are large. However, I'm sure that's not the norm, but my point is every area may be different. I tend to think most people are "try before you buy" type, and CR addresses this issue. The only anime not available to non-members on CR is the recently added Fairy Tail. Every other anime allows users to view them 1 week after airing. So if CR eventually gets a hold of every anime, you'll have a "try before you buy" for every anime. FUNimation also offers free anime so that would be another example of "try before you buy". |
alamarco said: So if CR eventually gets a hold of every anime, you'll have a "try before you buy" for every anime. FUNimation also offers free anime so that would be another example of "try before you buy". Unfortunately both have region restrictions, so it only really caters to the US market. Some CR videos are open but a lot of them aren't. Funi is only available to North America. The world is bigger than NA, and most anime fans outside of it have relied on fansubs forever to preview anime, but CR threatens this practice if it becomes more difficult to get series because CR has picked them up. But I suppose they just don't care; the NA market is big enough for them to cater to alone. |
ShadowbladeEdge said: What? CR hasn't really had any effect on fansubs I disagree. I think it has. There have been very few 'real' groups doing stuff CR picks up, as this thread already went over. It falls back to being rippers of their subs, which are sub-par. A few groups go against the trend but it has clearly had an impact on subbing, and I imagine it will only get worse as CR gets larger. But considering they apparently run at a loss, we can hope they go bankrupt like other streaming sites have. |
| @Asako The world is bigger than NA, but I believe CR will eventually be global. Just look at Fairy Tail, it's offered world wide. Licenses are expensive, so for a US based company you couldn't expect them to go right off the bat with world wide licenses. I really hope CR doesn't fail, even if I didn't subscribed. It's really good to see anime become lega over here. If anime becomes more mainstream maybe we'll see more shops open up, etc. The success of CR can only mean good things for anime fans (those who buy things). |
alamarco said: @Asako The world is bigger than NA, but I believe CR will eventually be global. Just look at Fairy Tail, it's offered world wide. It will changed very slowly. As is, the Japanese producers are old men who have no real concept of the internet or care about the global market. The younger generations do, but due to the way Japanese management works, it will take time for the older higher-ups to retire/die off and the younger ones with a clue to take over. The limitations are pretty much all in place from the Japanese perspective; they want to license to specific regions and control releases. It's why DVD and bluray regions exist, from the oldschool release control point of view that has yet to subside (though bluray regions have been cut back, at least. It's a slight improvement over DVD). ShadowbladeEdge said: OK maybe they've made a slight dent in fansubs, but fansubs aren't really "the problem" it's illegal distribution, which they've barely affected. I'm fully aware. I fansubbed for years. If anything, fansubs helped sales. It has nothing to do with bootlegs and such; they're often just cloned R1s anyway. Fansubbers have put the whole "This is a free fansub, if you paid for it you were scammed" type messages in for ages, to prevent bootlegs which worked to a degree. But thanks to the likes of bayTSP and other DMCA trackers, fansubbing is a riskier business these days. CR seems to be DMCA happy, too. |
AsakoOct 7, 2009 10:13 PM
| The people of CR seems really proud, simulcasting 18 titles. =/ |
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takfuji200 said: i buy anime, all the time the thing that pisses me off more these days co's doing bulk packs of series jap releases, yet the dual audio is no longer available This has been demanded for a long time; quick, cheaper sub-only release, then the dubs later as they're done, for the people who want them. Though I'm not sure if any companies are actually doing that, a couple have just done purely sub-only releases with no intention to dub (thankfully, the series I've seen aren't mainstream enough to warrant or be worth a dub). If you have a large collection, you should add it to your list. ^^ |
takfuji200 said: when there is a english dub in existence all endevours should be to produce bulk pack releases in dual audio That strikes me as odd. I have a few hundred box sets, and almost everything I own is still in print and available. If the series is available in singles, it should have boxes available too, unless it isn't complete yet. Granted, maybe things are just different with Madman, but retailers like Rightstuf and Amazon have huge boxset catalogues from what I have observed. |
| Yeah, sub only is what stopped me from buying a few DVDs. I'm pretty sure the Hayate DVDs are sub only, which is a shame because I love the anime and manga. It's sad when big name releases get sub only releases. That's the primary reason I want FUNimation to get control of the DVD industry. They are the best for releasing DVDs and their dubs are pretty good. My personal dream is seeing CR control all streams while FUNimation control all DVDs. Working in harmony to support each other and the anime industry. |
alamarco said: That's the primary reason I want FUNimation to get control of the DVD industry. They are the best for releasing DVDs and their dubs are pretty good. My personal dream is seeing CR control all streams while FUNimation control all DVDs. Working in harmony to support each other and the anime industry. I would really rather not see this. Monopolies cause stagnation. Without competition, they will get lazy and also be able to jack prices since there's no reason not to if nobody undercuts them. |
Asako said: I would really rather not see this. Monopolies cause stagnation. Without competition, they will get lazy and also be able to jack prices since there's no reason not to if nobody undercuts them. True, though FUNimation seem to already be taking a monopoly. I forget the company names, but I think 2 major players (I think ADV and Geneon) have stopped producing DVD's. It depends on the company who gains the monopoly. Microsoft has done well with their monopoly, though I wouldn't say the same with ISP's in Canada. |
takfuji200 said: As for Madman I pretty like many other things they have good for the Australian anime industry though with the many errors that seem to appear on their disc's they seem to become the bane and butt of the joke in the internationally, same with siren... What errors? I've never had a single retail DVD error on me, except in my old faulty DVD drive where Fruits Basket just refused to play, but it worked fine on all of my others, and that drive is known to be buggered anyway. I do agree about the lack of extras, though. Also Madman do have a bit of a nasty habit of cramming too many episodes per disc, which results in poor video quality due to high compression (above mentioned Fruits Basket is four DVDs with 6, 6, 7, 7 episodes. It's terrible). But that depends more on who they source it from, it's often not up to Madman themselves; you have to remember, they just sub-license from R1 companies. |
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