_HEDI_ said: RazorWireSodomy said: Don't know why's the hate with Ecchi, you are a man, you like women, me too, so why tf not? Why be terrorized by it? LMFAO we don't watch anime to see panties Well, you don't, i do. Thats why im a big fan of hentais. |
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oh shit you have Boku no Pico in your favorite big respect take a freind request |
 ”A fight isn't won once a victor is decided, it's won when someone loses.” – Izayoi SakamakiI don’t even know the real names of the two… no, three that I killed back then. I just closed my eyes, put my hands over my ears and tried to forget it all.” – Kirito MY ANIME LIST |
Tylaen said: TolkienFan365 said: I appreciate that you allow me my opinion.Well you are free to feel that way. This has been one of the best nerdy fandoms I have been apart of. Compared to stuff like SW, gaming, the film industry, table top gaming this is great. Even taking it outside of nerdy stuff this place is a picnic compared to some stuff throw at me being just a fan of another sports team. It's all based off our experiences. When you conform to the standards set by the prior fanatics, it's not doubted that one could have such feelings. Well it's not like there is anything to argue or prove.A view on fanbases are just anecdotal you can bring up incidents but there is no way to quantify what is worse. I am not going to say you can't feel that way it isn't toxic because you have probably had experiences that made you feel that way. Plus while I definitely feel this is a good fandom there are obviously bad fans that have done horrible things. There are fanbases and groups I personally despise and honestly it's just down to I have had bad experiences. Even fanbases like SW which a lot of people including myself view as toxic have many good elements like the 501st legion so one experience can be toxic the other positive. The only thing I just took issue with is the view that we are somehow vastly worse than all other nerdy fandoms which would be an insane overstatement in my opinion. |
BilboBaggins365Apr 12, 2020 4:13 PM
I thank you for understanding the relevance of this masterpiece. |
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Manaban said: guizo- said: Depends on the anime of course, i feel like monter musume or DxD would be preety generic with no ecchi, highschool of the dead on the other hand could be so much better with its focus on the non-jiggling kind of plot. Idk, HSotD always felt like it really flourished as a sort of B-movie-esque cheesefest that featured gratuitious sex and violence to the extent that it did. That made it distinct. It was schlock, and it was fucking great at being schlock. I know a lot of people who want it to be different and not feature the schlock-y elements to the extent that it did wanted it to be a serious take on the zombie apocalypse genre, but why? Is it just to have something that was kind of famously flooded in the western media landscape at the time HSotD came out be translated into anime? I mean, just click on his profile and look at his favorites. There's a lot of non-ecchi in there. A lot of mecha stuff like Gundam and Macross, he has Utena in there, so on and so forth. He's got a pretty varied taste in anime, just looking at the info he makes public. Now, imagine immediately speaking for everybody as if nobody watches anime for panty shots and actually enjoys ecchi and then trying to take derisiveness towards that mentality as WELL DO YOU ONLY WATCH ANIME FOR ECCHI? as if being a fan of ecchi means you can't coincide with being a fan of non-ecchi series. HM... I see what you are saying, i just think they jammed some bad ecchi with the good stuff, like that matrix boobs scene with the bullet going through them ya' know? I like ecchi when i think i'ts well done, like when the girls get drunk and horny before they get the humvee, that's just fine! But in my opinion the bad ends up outweighing the good, thus my opinion that it would be better without it. |
I think I don't know wtf I'm doing. Maybe. Probably. |
TolkienFan365 said: I don't personally hold this view but I wouldn't say it's wrong.The only thing I just took issue with is the view that we are somehow vastly worse than all other nerdy fandoms which would be an insane overstatement in my opinion. You're also just sort of including more and more fandoms, even if we only talked about two. Can you stop elaborating on my words for me? |
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_HEDI_ said: Imaishi said: Ohhhh, big sorry for having different reasons for watching anime than you have. How silly of me. I forgot anime is only for the edgy battle shonen fans. so you are watching anime just because ecchi ? Don't know how you arrived at that. No, not just because of ecchi. It is in fact possible to like both ecchi and non-ecchi stuff. I do like me some ecchi anime. And every now and then, yes, this is exactly what I seek out, and the reason I watch anime at the time. I am honestly baffled how many people seem to imply the experience can be in any way replaced with watching porn or looking at pictures. I can't even tell if it's genuinely being stupid/oblivious or trying to be somehow demeanening. |
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guizo- said: Manaban said: Idk, HSotD always felt like it really flourished as a sort of B-movie-esque cheesefest that featured gratuitious sex and violence to the extent that it did. That made it distinct. It was schlock, and it was fucking great at being schlock. I know a lot of people who want it to be different and not feature the schlock-y elements to the extent that it did wanted it to be a serious take on the zombie apocalypse genre, but why? Is it just to have something that was kind of famously flooded in the western media landscape at the time HSotD came out be translated into anime? I mean, just click on his profile and look at his favorites. There's a lot of non-ecchi in there. A lot of mecha stuff like Gundam and Macross, he has Utena in there, so on and so forth. He's got a pretty varied taste in anime, just looking at the info he makes public. Now, imagine immediately speaking for everybody as if nobody watches anime for panty shots and actually enjoys ecchi and then trying to take derisiveness towards that mentality as WELL DO YOU ONLY WATCH ANIME FOR ECCHI? as if being a fan of ecchi means you can't coincide with being a fan of non-ecchi series. HM... I see what you are saying, i just think they jammed some bad ecchi with the good stuff, like that matrix boobs scene with the bullet going through them ya' know? I like ecchi when i think i'ts well done, like when the girls get drunk and horny before they get the humvee, that's just fine! But in my opinion the bad ends up outweighing the good, thus my opinion that it would be better without it. Well then wouldn't the argument be for let's support or advocate for ecchi to use sex in better ways instead of well lots of shows doesn't use it well so it should be permanently axed. |
guizo- said: HM... I see what you are saying, i just think they jammed some bad ecchi with the good stuff, like that matrix boobs scene with the bullet going through them ya' know? I mean, literally nowhere else can you get a scene like that. I didn't think much of it either on a personal level, but I'm not going to knock it for doing off-the-wall shit you don't see elsewhere. I respect that about it a lot. guizo- said: I like ecchi when i think i'ts well done, like when the girls get drunk and horny before they get the humvee, that's just fine! But in my opinion the bad ends up outweighing the good, thus my opinion that it would be better without it. Well, it's a pretty huge part of HStoD's content spread. What would you propose replacing it with? TolkienFan365 said: Well then wouldn't the argument be for let's support or advocate for ecchi to use sex in better ways instead of well lots of shows doesn't use it well so it should be permanently axed. The issue with that is that they'll run into people who actually watch it and give a shit about it, and they'll have an advantage on the basis that they can actually talk about it relative to other ecchi. Whether or not they take advantage of it depends on the individual, of course. I don't know if you've noticed, but a lot of people take issue with it primarily on a conceptual level and can only go for the most superficial accusations or attempts at dismissing it. It's why they can't really talk about it outside of bath scenes and anime falls. They don't lack perspective, they just straight up don't have one. But ecchi bad, they're in it for the story and the depth and maturity and all of that, this isn't that. So we must take issue with it. And I won't even deny that people can express that issue in ways that don't make me want to spit in their face, it's just an overwhelming majority of them are kinda knobs about it. So suggestions will fall flat, and, if you ask me from my experience, often seem more detrimental than helpful because they're coming from a place of not-really-knowing much about how it works and they're coming from people who aren't really going to be interested in the first place. We're typically not talking about a peripheral audience here, we're talking about a non-audience. I will say that I don't think this guy isn't being toxic so there's no need to dogpile him about the "permanently axing it" business, though. He's a good lad. I wish more people talked about their issues with it like he is, instead of like OP did, for instance. It's a lot more amicable and humanizing. I still worry I'm talking down to him somewhat, but that's not really out of disrespect like it tends to be. I just don't know how else to approach it considering what I'm being presented with. |
ManabanApr 12, 2020 4:29 PM
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Tylaen said: TolkienFan365 said: I don't personally hold this view but I wouldn't say it's wrong.The only thing I just took issue with is the view that we are somehow vastly worse than all other nerdy fandoms which would be an insane overstatement in my opinion. You're also just sort of including more and more fandoms, even if we only talked about two. Can you stop elaborating on my words for me? Tylaen said: TolkienFan365 said: I don't personally hold this view but I wouldn't say it's wrong.The only thing I just took issue with is the view that we are somehow vastly worse than all other nerdy fandoms which would be an insane overstatement in my opinion. You're also just sort of including more and more fandoms, even if we only talked about two. Can you stop elaborating on my words for me? You never specified the original comment started with nerd culture which includes stuff like SW. Also well that is a foolish view because while you can't quantify it entirely you can very easily just start showing horrible things that so many fandoms are guilty of that either will paint this fanbase in a better picture or drag everyone down with it. |
well, hentai shows a story about porn, they are making the whole anime just for porn so there nothing in hentai to be destroyed. but ecchi will destroy the entire anime and story. |
_hediyoshii_Apr 12, 2020 4:24 PM
_HEDI_ said: well, hentai shows a story about porn, they are making the whole anime just for porn there nothing in hentai to be destroyed. but ecchi will destroy the entire anime and story. Hentai can have lots of actual good stories and also how does it always destroy the story? That is incredibly subjective view and people have cited tons of anime where they felt it benefited it. Plus people need to clarify what they mean by ecchi because sex scenes can add a lot to a narrative and it's emotion weight. It's insanely narrow minded to argue sex appeal somehow depreciates a narrative just because the fact some do and also ignorant to argue it cannot benefit certain themes. |
TolkienFan365 said: You never specified the original comment started with nerd culture which includes stuff like SW. Also well that is a foolish view because while you can't quantify it entirely you can very easily just start showing horrible things that so many fandoms are guilty of that either will paint this fanbase in a better picture or drag everyone down with it. Tylaen said: I view this culture and gaming culture as equally toxic. Don't consider it an achievement. Fandoms are inherently toxic, so a pissing match wouldn't be out of place. |
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Manaban said: guizo- said: HM... I see what you are saying, i just think they jammed some bad ecchi with the good stuff, like that matrix boobs scene with the bullet going through them ya' know? I mean, literally nowhere else can you get a scene like that. I didn't think much of it either on a personal level, but I'm not going to knock it for doing off-the-wall shit you don't see elsewhere. I respect that about it a lot. guizo- said: I like ecchi when i think i'ts well done, like when the girls get drunk and horny before they get the humvee, that's just fine! But in my opinion the bad ends up outweighing the good, thus my opinion that it would be better without it. Well, it's a pretty huge part of HStoD's content spread. What would you propose replacing it with? TolkienFan365 said: Well then wouldn't the argument be for let's support or advocate for ecchi to use sex in better ways instead of well lots of shows doesn't use it well so it should be permanently axed. The issue with that is that they'll run into people who actually watch it and give a shit about it, and they'll have an advantage on the basis that they can actually talk about it relative to other ecchi. Whether or not they take advantage of it depends on the individual, of course. I don't know if you've noticed, but a lot of people take issue with it primarily on a conceptual level and can only go for the most superficial accusations or attempts at dismissing it. It's why they can't really talk about it outside of bath scenes and anime falls. They don't lack perspective, they just straight up don't have one. So suggestions will fall flat, and, if you ask me from my experience, often seem more detrimental than helpful because they're coming from a place of not-really-knowing much. I will say that I don't think this guy isn't being toxic so there's no need to dogpile him about the "permanently axing it" business, though. He's a good lad. I wish more people talked about their issues with it like he is, instead of like OP did, for instance. It's a lot more amicable and humanizing. I still worry I'm talking down to him somewhat, but that's not really out of disrespect like it tends to be. I just don't know how else to approach it considering what I'm being presented with. No I know that a lot of people just take issue with the idea behind it. I just want that to be shown. I know because I am someone who does take issue with ecchi content but it isn't at the base conceptual level. So much of this just comes down to I hate it and the idea behind it. What annoys me the most is that anyone of course that just wants to defend content they like is immediately demonized and insulted. Since we want to talk about toxic fans that is toxic. |
Tylaen said: Fandoms are inherently toxic Oooh oooh elaborate on this, please, would be nice <3 |
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Manaban said: If you make a thread about it, I might. I'm already severely derailing the thread!Tylaen said: Fandoms are inherently toxic Oooh oooh elaborate on this, please, would be nice <3 |
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Tylaen said: If you make a thread about it, I might. I'm already severely derailing the thread! I won't do that, tho. Making threads is less fun than responding to them :( And I mean, who cares about the derailing, this is an already shitty thread, but more than that, it's doomed to get locked and cleaned anyway, independent of your ongoing conversation. |
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TolkienFan365 said: _HEDI_ said: well, hentai shows a story about porn, they are making the whole anime just for porn there nothing in hentai to be destroyed. but ecchi will destroy the entire anime and story. Hentai can have lots of actual good stories and also how does it always destroy the story? That is incredibly subjective view and people have cited tons of anime where they felt it benefited it. Plus people need to clarify what they mean by ecchi because sex scenes can add a lot to a narrative and it's emotion weight. It's insanely narrow minded to argue sex appeal somehow depreciates a narrative just because the fact some do and also ignorant to argue it cannot benefit certain themes. there is nothing in hentai to be destroyed because of sex scene because the whole story is about porn that is what i meant. |
_HEDI_ said: TolkienFan365 said: Hentai can have lots of actual good stories and also how does it always destroy the story? That is incredibly subjective view and people have cited tons of anime where they felt it benefited it. Plus people need to clarify what they mean by ecchi because sex scenes can add a lot to a narrative and it's emotion weight. It's insanely narrow minded to argue sex appeal somehow depreciates a narrative just because the fact some do and also ignorant to argue it cannot benefit certain themes. there is nothing in hentai to be destroyed because of sex scene because the whole story is about porn that is what i meant. Except it doesn't have to be just porn. I know a crosdressing hentai dojin that does make a statement on gender roles (granted brief due to the length) while just being a short sweet romance. It has as much a story as your average romance anime. Hentai can have substance. Anime like Kill La Kill the ecchi is essential to one of its main themes and Food Wars used it as a way to show enjoyment of the food through creative means rather than it just being someone saying yes it is good. The reactions with the vibrant art got that across better. If you take this farther and just include any scene with sex or sexual appeal and not just fanservice I think the sex scene in LOTGH for instance was good in displaying another side of the usually arrogant, prideful and machiavellian Reinhard. |
_HEDI_ said: well, hentai shows a story about porn, they are making the whole anime just for porn so there nothing in hentai to be destroyed. but ecchi will destroy the entire anime and story. Ok, so don't watch then, is it that hard to not watch something you don't like? |
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_HEDI_ said: TolkienFan365 said: Hentai can have lots of actual good stories and also how does it always destroy the story? That is incredibly subjective view and people have cited tons of anime where they felt it benefited it. Plus people need to clarify what they mean by ecchi because sex scenes can add a lot to a narrative and it's emotion weight. It's insanely narrow minded to argue sex appeal somehow depreciates a narrative just because the fact some do and also ignorant to argue it cannot benefit certain themes. there is nothing in hentai to be destroyed because of sex scene because the whole story is about porn that is what i meant. Destroyed is very strong word, you sure that's what you're trying to say? that every anime is destroyed when theres ecchi in it? Prison School is a good example of an anime that depends on ecchi, of course it might be too much for a lot of people but when you understand that the show doesn't take itself seriouly, you burst out in laught, that shit is funny as hell. DxD would be a generic harem if there was no ecchi in it. But over using it like in To Love Ru kinda ruins it for sure, that show was pure trash tbh. |
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TolkienFan365 said: guizo- said: HM... I see what you are saying, i just think they jammed some bad ecchi with the good stuff, like that matrix boobs scene with the bullet going through them ya' know? I like ecchi when i think i'ts well done, like when the girls get drunk and horny before they get the humvee, that's just fine! But in my opinion the bad ends up outweighing the good, thus my opinion that it would be better without it. Well then wouldn't the argument be for let's support or advocate for ecchi to use sex in better ways instead of well lots of shows doesn't use it well so it should be permanently axed. well, my signature does say i don't know what i'm doing... |
| I think I don't know wtf I'm doing. Maybe. Probably. |
Manaban said: guizo- said: HM... I see what you are saying, i just think they jammed some bad ecchi with the good stuff, like that matrix boobs scene with the bullet going through them ya' know? I mean, literally nowhere else can you get a scene like that. I didn't think much of it either on a personal level, but I'm not going to knock it for doing off-the-wall shit you don't see elsewhere. I respect that about it a lot. guizo- said: I like ecchi when i think i'ts well done, like when the girls get drunk and horny before they get the humvee, that's just fine! But in my opinion the bad ends up outweighing the good, thus my opinion that it would be better without it. Well, it's a pretty huge part of HStoD's content spread. What would you propose replacing it with? No need to replace it, just expand what is already in there, plot, characters, a bit of romance, a bit of comedy, there ya go! Might get better or worse, we will never know, we ain't getting even a second season :( |
| I think I don't know wtf I'm doing. Maybe. Probably. |
guizo- said: Manaban said: I mean, literally nowhere else can you get a scene like that. I didn't think much of it either on a personal level, but I'm not going to knock it for doing off-the-wall shit you don't see elsewhere. I respect that about it a lot. Well, it's a pretty huge part of HStoD's content spread. What would you propose replacing it with? No need to replace it, just expand what is already in there, plot, characters, a bit of romance, a bit of comedy, there ya go! Might get better or worse, we will never know, we ain't getting even a second season :( But it's not that simple. You're arguing removing the ecchi - or at least considerable portions of it - and focusing on other things. Ecchi is a defining aspect of HSotD. It's there, and it's there in huge, bulky numbers. For it to maintain the same runtime minus fanservice, what does it need to do? I ask this because I very much interpret HSotD as being intentional schlock. It's got gratuitous amounts of sexualization and violence, and it's very over-the-top in many cases with it - the titty bullet time scene you mentioned being the prime example. It's got hatesink villains that are so thoroughly irredeemable that it'd make Malty or Suguo blush, but at the same time in the context of a show that is using a character's breasts to stabilize a gunshot that makes a zombie's head explode, the use of a hatesink takes on an entirely different meaning than it does in Shield Hero or SAO. It's goofy. It's cheesey. And I'm not convinced it's trying to tell the audience that it's got a deeper point, unlike I interpret with Malty or Suguo. Just cheap heat. But a lot of people take interest in HSotD wanting it to be a survival show and not a schlock-y show. The fanservice is, arguably, more a prominent element of the series' schlocky as all hell elements than the violence is, though. So, whenever people say they want HSotD to cut down on fanservice or that it "ruined" it, it's usually calls for it to be something that I find it difficult to substantiate as the purpose of the show beyond wishful thinking - that being, they wanted a survival horror show like The Walking Dead, or at least TWD with a bit of an anime spin on it. You see this in reviews for the series. You see this in forum posts. So on and so forth, it's been a defining element of discussion surrounding this series - people wanted it to be an anime take on something that was very trendy in the west at the time, and when it wasn't that, they were disappointed. Is that what you're wanting it to be? Or, even, what you interpret it as being? Because I really do think that, in order to achieve that, you'd have to strip HSotD of a *lot* more components and add a lot more stuff that just doesn't exist within the series to make that be the case. It is fairly common to take this specific series, look at the premise and series and promo art, and just want it to be a Survival Zombie Apocalypse and not one of the schlockiest anime out there, and so when they get these absurd elements that ruin any chances of it being a serious survival and make it just mind-numbingly goofy, they get put off. I just argue that it's not worth doing that based on how prominent that type of story is outside of anime and that a huge portion of HSotD's distinction and charm comes from how much it feels like it leans into just being dumbest fun of the dumbest degree. RazorWireSodomy said: DxD would be a generic harem if there was no ecchi in it. But over using it like in To Love Ru kinda ruins it for sure, that show was pure trash tbh. That's kind of the fun thing. DxD is a lot more accessible precisely because it can function without these elements, and the fanservice stuff is largely tacked on. To LOVE-Ru is less so because there's not really any episodic gag bit in the series that can function without ecchi, and it pushes the envelope into further and weirder territory than DxD does with its use of contextualization instead of just opting for basic exposure every time like DxD does. This is why like, while I never agreed with gatekeeping to *this* extent and argued with him on it before, back in 2015 people like Mamster would say that actual ecchi fans don't have DxD in their favorites. It's not much different than saying actual anime fans don't have SAO in their favorites. That's wrong, stupid, and really elitist, but I won't deny that it's baby's first ecchi, tailored to be as accessible to a broader audience outside the niche as possible. And that's fine, DxD is an okay show, but I'm saying this to emphasize that between the two, I very much believe that the one with the ecchi tacked onto a battle shounen-esque narrative and nearly exclusively opts for basic exposure has fanservice that's a lot more disposable than the one that bases pretty much every chapter around building up and creating fanservice and relies heavily on being creative and pushing the envelope with it. They both have narratives and characters, though, and I can and will make the case of TLR having the better cast with more well-rounded characters. TLR's episodic narratives can't function without ecchi 9 times out of 10, though, and you can't get the weird shit like the phone that makes characters orgasm or the shapeshifting into panties or anything like that much anywhere else. Ten times out of ten, though, you can get the same thing without DxD's exposure shots. The girls can be grabbed the tentacle monster without it zooming in on their breasts and destroyed clothes. You can give exposition about a character's backstory whenever she isn't naked and on top of the MC. It's not a defining enough part of its identity. And I'm in the camp that thinks an ecchi that wears its heart on its sleeve and seems to enjoy fucking with censors is better than one that meekly goes for exposure shots and tries to pull people in through other means for accessibility's sake. |
ManabanApr 12, 2020 7:52 PM
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| Anime could do with a little more ecchi and murder and a little less loli and moe sol trash tbh. |
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| It's not better with ecchi for female audience. I personally don't make any recommend for anime with ecchi related content for the ladies. The same goes for guys, I don't recommend yaoi/shounen ai content to guys. That's just weird. I watched a few and keep it to myself. Now on to ecchi, the thing is, anime serve as a get-away-from-real-life entertainment for majority of the people. There's a culture built around it and where jokes were create from it. In short, if people want hentai/porn, they don't need to watch anime. There are plenty of adult sites for that. For majority of guys, ecchi is much better option to opt into than the above. |
| MALoween✟Mansion (2024) Candy Basket 🎃: |
| Both need to coexist together to keep anime balanced. Anime nowadays has had a drop in quality due to too little fanservice anime and too much isekai. |
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Manaban said: You can take the ecchi out of DxD and still have DxD. You can't take the ecchi out of TLR and still have TLR. I agree with what you said about DxD can still be DxD without ecchi, it would turn into a battle shounen you say, and they could just keep the romance and harem parts of it, but at the same time, in my vision, the show is a lot more popular due to it's ecchi and im not saying that if it has ecchi it will be better or vice-versa, but a lot of people are attracted by it and stay for it, but yeah i agree that DxD could have been made without ecchi. |
SupremeHentaiApr 12, 2020 6:53 PM
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| i like harems and ecchi with fighting animes like strike the blood, highschool dxd, and etc |
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RazorWireSodomy said: Manaban said: You can take the ecchi out of DxD and still have DxD. You can't take the ecchi out of TLR and still have TLR. I agree with what you said about DxD can still be DxD without ecchi, it would turn into a battle shounen you say, and they could just keep the romance and harem parts of it, but at the same time, in my vision, the show is a lot more popular due to it's ecchi and im not saying that if it has ecchi i will be better or vice-versa, but a lot of people are attracted by it and stay for it, but yeah i agree that DxD could have been made without ecchi. I don't disagree that ecchi is a huge part of its popularity. It's just that the ecchi, like the premise, is tailored for accessibility. It's not weird, it's not strange, it doesn't push any envelopes, it doesn't constantly test censors, it's all pretty much basic exposure. It's safe, for a show of this kind. And it's all a negligible component of it structurally that, in turn, makes it feel like a tacked on part of its identity. It's not a defining enough part of its identity. And I'm in the camp that thinks an ecchi that wears its heart on its sleeve and seems to enjoy fucking with censors is better than one that meekly goes for exposure shots and tries to pull people in through other means for accessibility's sake. It's why I'll always argue it being inferior to a lot of its contemporaries when it comes to a lot of recognizable series, and also why I argue TLR as being the gold-standard. Because TLR is the opposite. You can't take the ecchi out of it and have a similar product, and it does push the envelope and test censors constantly. There's a reason the Tokyo Municipal Government tried banning the TLR manga from being sold in Tokyo outright, while nobody batted an eye at DxD. There's also a reason why TLR has subliminal pussy shots in the manga, which started appearing during the time the government started trying to prevent their series from being sold in a way that would've made it dead in the water, funnily enough. And it's glorious. It just pushed and pushed and didn't let up. DxD never actually started pushing, though. It would've been unsafe. Best just tack some exposure onto this standard exposition or battle scene. Nobody would mind that too much. Gimme more series that are as geniune rockstar as TLR, instead of ones that play makeup and wear guitar like DxD. That's what I'm trying to say here. One meekly seeks validation, plays it safe, and tailors itself for as broad an audience as possible, the other runs in with both middle fingers up and does whatever the hell it wants to do, throwing caution to the wind and outright risking the future of its series at some point. |
ManabanApr 12, 2020 7:31 PM
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Manaban said: guizo- said: No need to replace it, just expand what is already in there, plot, characters, a bit of romance, a bit of comedy, there ya go! Might get better or worse, we will never know, we ain't getting even a second season :( But it's not that simple. You're arguing removing the ecchi - or at least considerable portions of it - and focusing on other things. Ecchi is a defining aspect of HSotD. It's there, and it's there in huge, bulky numbers. For it to maintain the same runtime minus fanservice, what does it need to do? I ask this because I very much interpret HSotD as being intentional schlock. It's got gratuitous amounts of sexualization and violence, and it's very over-the-top in many cases with it - the titty bullet time scene you mentioned being the prime example. It's got hatesink villains that are so thoroughly irredeemable that it'd make Malty or Suguo blush, but at the same time in the context of a show that is using a character's beasts to stabilize a gunshot that makes a zombie's head explode, the use of a hatesink takes on an entirely different meaning than it does in Shield Hero or SAO. It's goofy. It's cheesey. And I'm not convinced it's trying to tell the audience that it's got a deeper point, unlike I interpret with Malty or Suguo. Just cheap heat. But a lot of people take interest in HSotD wanting it to be a survival show and not a schlock-y show. The fanservice is, arguably, more a prominent element of the series' schlocky as all hell elements than the violence is, though. So, whenever people say they want HSotD to cut down on fanservice or that it "ruined" it, it's usually calls for it to be something that I find it difficult to substantiate as the purpose of the show beyond wishful thinking - that being, they wanted a survival horror show like The Walking Dead, or at least TWD with a bit of an anime spin on it. You see this in reviews for the series. You see this in forum posts. So on and so forth, it's been a defining element of discussion surrounding this series - people wanted it to be an anime take on something that was very trendy in the west at the time, and when it wasn't that, they were disappointed. Is that what you're wanting it to be? Or, even, what you interpret it as being? Because I really do think that, in order to achieve that, you'd have to strip HSotD of a *lot* more components and add a lot more stuff that just doesn't exist within the series to make that be the case. It is fairly common to take this specific series, look at the premise and series and promo art, and just want it to be a Survival Zombie Apocalypse and not one of the schlockiest anime out there, and so when they get these absurd elements that don't make it a serious survival and make it just mind-numbingly goofy, they get put off. I just argue that it's not worth doing that based on how prominent that type of story is outside of anime and that a huge portion of HSotD's distinction and charm comes from how much it feels like it leans into just being dumbest fun of the dumbest degree. In my opinion, HOTD has more than that, like good chemistry between the characters, BALLS lots of balls (for an anime) to make it's mc get the f*** out of school when s*** hits the fan and then proceed to shoot another human being with a completely non-magical honest to god .38, you just don't see that a lot in anime, it is also a lot of fun, one of the few anime i watched more than once, i think it does have enough substance to survive only a portion of it being a vehicle to show fan-service instead of everything serving that one purpose. (if it wasn't clear i love the show) About the twd thing, i'm not part of that group. the two are completely different beasts to me, twd was never fun, it was entertaining, not fun tho. Was. :( |
| I think I don't know wtf I'm doing. Maybe. Probably. |
ShadowOnyx01 said: i like harems and ecchi with fighting animes like strike the blood, highschool dxd, and etc If you like these (ecchi with fighting) you might like Ikkitousen and Valkyrie Drive. |
| "Well, she's flatter than a pancake" -Mimi Alpacas |
| ecchi usually makes the best animes so it's LOT worse without it. people if you don't like zero plot shows just don't watch it, but I am all for zero plot ecchi series because I laugh my ass off with it and the aesthetic of anime tiddies are pretty good. |
| oregairu is shit |
guizo- said: In my opinion, HOTD has more than that, like good chemistry between the characters, BALLS lots of balls (for an anime) to make it's mc get the f*** out of school when s*** hits the fan and then proceed to shoot another human being with a completely non-magical honest to god .38 Ooooh, you should watch a lot more OVA-era ecchi that were more centered around schlock and violence and sexualization than TV-era ecchi tend to be. It's true you don't see it that often in the TV-era, but in the OVA-era that's nothing to even bat an eye at xP Most of my favorites are TV-era, by the way, just want to make that clear so it doesn't seem like I'm being dismissive. I just like delving back into the OVA-era too when it comes to ecchi, the time period when content like this could only be direct-to-video and not aired on TV. I can see how my favorite aspect of anime developed over time, and on top of that it tends to be a completely different beast. guizo- said: it is also a lot of fun, one of the few anime i watched more than once, i think it does have enough substance to survive only a portion of it being a vehicle to show fan-service instead of everything serving that one purpose. (if it wasn't clear i love the show) About the twd thing, i'm not part of that group. the two are completely different beasts to me, twd was never fun, it was entertaining, not fun tho. Was. :( Aight. I can respect this. Just a lot of people I've talked about it with had that mentality, that they more or less wanted it to be an anime twist on TWD, so I was wanting to see if that's the case and explain why I felt like it's better off being as it is than being anime-TWD. |
ManabanApr 12, 2020 7:29 PM
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| As little as I am into the genre, I think it is not prevalent enough to make a difference, and even if it did I can just ignore it and watch other shows. It's not like the reputation of the medium is my concern if I can still watch stuff that I find worth. |
jal90 said: As little as I am into the genre, I think it is not prevalent enough to make a difference, and even if it did I can just ignore it and watch other shows. It's not like the reputation of the medium is my concern if I can still watch stuff that I find worth. Well, the guy wasn't really talking about purging ecchi shows from existing and was instead wanting to encourage purging the audience from being in the anime fandom. There is a big difference and it's why I'm a lot more sympathetic to people taking offense in this thread. It's also why I'm going to camp this thread until it gets locked and cleaned, because I am a petty asshole. It's why I'm grateful that the thread has derailed like it has tbh. It feels like it's gone from WE NEED TO MAKE ECCHI FANS LEAVE to just casually talking about ecchi shit in a way that I haven't been able to on this board in a long time. |
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Manaban said: jal90 said: As little as I am into the genre, I think it is not prevalent enough to make a difference, and even if it did I can just ignore it and watch other shows. It's not like the reputation of the medium is my concern if I can still watch stuff that I find worth. Well, the guy wasn't really talking about purging ecchi shows from existing and was instead wanting to encourage purging the audience from being in the anime fandom. There is a big difference and it's why I'm a lot more sympathetic to people taking offense in this thread. It's why I'm grateful that the thread has derailed like it has tbh. It feels like it's gone from WE NEED TO MAKE ECCHI FANS LEAVE to just casually talking about ecchi shit in a way that I haven't been able to on this board in a long time. Oh. It's fine to derail the thread then. I was answering more in general terms, if ecchi was harmful in some way or form, like creating some sort of social stigma, and since I find it easy to ignore I can't even bother with having issues with it, let alone turning it into something I have to antagonize. Most of the times, such as any other subculture in anime, I just respectfully disagree. Then again, since I'm not really into this subculture I may have not evaluated well enough how offensive OP actually was. |
| better with it because just because you don't like it doesn't mean some one else won't. also ecchi's basically ingrained into anime considering how long it's existed in anime for. hell even Dragon ball had a bunch of raunchy scenes in it. and classics like ghost in the shell had plenty of nuditiy, but are still considered masterpieces to this day. and to many mecha is unnecessary to the medium, and is therefore bad battle shounen is unnecessary to the medium, and is therefore bad slice of life is unnecessary to the medium, and is therefore bad isekai is unnecessary to the medium, and is therefore bad romcom is unnecessary to the medium, and is therefore bad sports is unnecessary to the medium, and is therefore bad your talking about a subjective medium there is no objective truth to it. |
GrimAtramentApr 12, 2020 7:50 PM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
Kami_sama_ said: Yo, it's so sad how she was reduced to a sex object lol. Like, she could have been a badass girl without all the ass shots.Tylaen said: It'd be nice if ecchi tropes stuck to ecchi shows, Is all I'm saying. If I'm trying to get horny, I'll watch a show that's labeled that way not be "surprise panty-shot" when I'm trying to engage in a story. Meaning, Fire Force can go **** itself. I agree, as much as I like 'Code Geass' and 'Gurren Lagann', I don't need panty and breast shots of them in their Mechs. Like seriously, whenever Kallen from 'Code Geass' moves around in her mech, her breasts defy the laws of Physics and bounce in every conceivable direction. |
Mayuka said: Kami_sama_ said: Yo, it's so sad how she was reduced to a sex object lol. Like, she could have been a badass girl without all the ass shots.I agree, as much as I like 'Code Geass' and 'Gurren Lagann', I don't need panty and breast shots of them in their Mechs. Like seriously, whenever Kallen from 'Code Geass' moves around in her mech, her breasts defy the laws of Physics and bounce in every conceivable direction. I already know the answer, but are you really saying a female character can't be a badass if there's some breast and ass shots of her every now and then? I guess you better remove Orihime from your faves. |
| "Well, she's flatter than a pancake" -Mimi Alpacas |
Mayuka said: Kami_sama_ said: Yo, it's so sad how she was reduced to a sex object lol. Like, she could have been a badass girl without all the ass shots.I agree, as much as I like 'Code Geass' and 'Gurren Lagann', I don't need panty and breast shots of them in their Mechs. Like seriously, whenever Kallen from 'Code Geass' moves around in her mech, her breasts defy the laws of Physics and bounce in every conceivable direction. > has free as a favorite anime double standard much? |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
mikerjw said: hazarddex said: and to many mecha is unnecessary to the medium, and is therefore bad battle shounen is unnecessary to the medium, and is therefore bad slice of life is unnecessary to the medium, and is therefore bad isekai is unnecessary to the medium, and is therefore bad romcom is unnecessary to the medium, and is therefore bad sports is unnecessary to the medium, and is therefore bad your talking about a subjective medium there is no objective truth to it. Ecchi does not add value to the art of an anime, nor is it a way to deliver story, unlike mecha, romcom, etc. You named a bunch of genres; I'm saying that ecchi is fundamentally different from a concept like "genre," in the sense that ecchi adds nothing to the avenue in which an anime is delivered. Those genres are a means to an end, and ecchi is not. i would actually have to disagree and so would several greek philosophers on the nature of beauty. and ecchi can add value to story especially romance drama's just saying. also several popular anime have there roots from Eroge CLannad is from a eroge, Fate/stay night is from a eroge, wither you like it or not sex is a part of human nature. you "ecchi bad." also you Lucky☆Star favorite anime. main character is known for playing eroge in anime making several sex jokes in said anime. also |
GrimAtramentApr 12, 2020 8:11 PM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
| Quick question do you think you're cool to self proclaim yourself as an elitist not trying to flame, I actually want to hear a serious answer (although I probably won't get one) |
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| I hate ecchi and harem but there are times when that kind of joke laughs but sometimes they happen, anyway, it is better that this kind of thing is not there, it is very bad (Most of the time) |
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-_-Valen said: I hate ecchi and harem but there are times when that kind of joke laughs but sometimes they happen, anyway, it is better that this kind of thing is not there, it is very bad (Most of the time) So, um, if you hate it so much, what's that hentai manga doing in your favorites? |
| "Well, she's flatter than a pancake" -Mimi Alpacas |
Oof, shots fired sir, i repeat, shots fired. |
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rsc-pl said: So by your logic, anime was ruined since the very beginning. Wow. Clannad is not an eroge though. There's no single explicit sex scene in the whole game. If I remember correctly there's no even a single underwear shot at all. right thinking of kanon, air, and little busters the other ones Key made. that and Tomoyo After ~It's a Wonderful Life~ https://vndb.org/v12 this one had h scenes |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
| There is no such thing as a stupid question. Just stupid people. Is a restaurant better if it doesn't serve dessert? Only for people who don't like dessert, who are just as sad and joyless as those who can't enjoy sexyness in fiction, funnily enough. The anti-sex people will go the way of the dinosaurs eventually. Just have to wait for society to heal the wounds left by religion and prejudicial thinking. Until then, the enlightened, open-minded people comfortable enjoying sexuality will have to put up with this exact same thread and this exact same conversation repeated every two months. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
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