| Johnny losing was a great idea actually |
| Was it necessary to put such a spoiler in your thread title? |
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dancinondamoon said: Insertanamehere said: Johnny losing was a great idea actually How so? Characterlimit makes him not out to be a gary stu who can do anything by trying hard enough |
dancinondamoon said: You're saying that as if he WAS a Gary Stu up until that point. He WASN'T. Johnny was a depressed, self loathing, sarcastic and cold blooded asshole who'd do anything to achieve his ends. When you flat out admit that your goals are less righteous than the main villain's, you know you're the furthest thing from a Gary Stu. Having the main protagonist LOSE just totally flies in the face of the core basics of storytelling. It renders the entire journey meaningless. indeed, he wasnt, he was a good character from the get go having your protagonist lose doesnt render anything meaningless though, it just goes to show he cant accomplish everything just by virtue of developing |
| Johnny's goal wasn't ever to come in 1st for the race. He joined first to learn the power of Gyro's steel balls, then to find the corpses, and was always intending to come second behind Gyro. What would winning have accomplished for Johnny? He doesn't particularly need the first-place money for anything, and he was never looking for his father's approval (in fact, his "interaction" with his father at the end was really just him shocked that he attended at all; he doesn't even remark on the speech). Everyone else with clearly defined character arcs involved in the race had their own goals for winning. Diego's was wanting fame, before he just wanted to be on top of society as revenge for his shitty upbringing. When Valentine offered him a way to both win AND have total power, why wouldn't he take it? I mean, when he and Wekapipo were trailing Valentine, his goal was to bargain for power, and he only teamed up with Hot Pants in order to defeat Valentine and gain power. So why wouldn't he accept Valentine's offer? It'd be OOC for even AU versions of himself to deny it. Sure, AU Diego was introduced really suddenly, and the random inclusion of The World is questionable (though that can be explained via AU shenanigans), but he's meant to be Valentine's desperate ace in the hole, a way to still win even after he loses. It's really a great way to keep Johnny's power in check as well as flesh out Diego's character in his final moments. Contrast it with Part 1 and 3 Dio after all; Dio's initial motive is to rule society for his shitty upbringing, but it soon fades into generic "take over the world" stuff. With Diego, the mainline through and through is to make a better life for himself out of anger for how him and his mother were treated. In that respect, it's a good way to show how far Diego will go to achieve said odds. |
kie_ said: So they concluded the anime with some feminist shit... Markdoka said: The ones hating this anime are MOSTLY SJWs, yaoifags and Narutards. LUCKILY I'M NOT ONE OF THOSE DAMN SJWS, YAOIFAGS AND NARUTARDS bashing the show for being "too edgy" and "too un-PC". |
| Did you think it was bad when Jonathan Joestar (OU) lost? With fate's way of working through universes in JoJo, I find the way Johnny lost to have been pretty great. The World was there to show what Dio's true Stand was. |
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| The way I see it is that this Diego acted as the other Dio, to show ruthlessness. I actually never heard of the gossip between people talking about the last arc of SBR being off-placed since when I read it, it was perfectly natural for me. This was to showcase that Johnny doesn't give a fuck and the battle between Dio is almost no personal confrontation. It was a pure fight between Johnny and Dio, and the Dio as ruthless as the original. And what tied the knot for Johnny is for me, the final moments when he was taking Gyro's corpse (;-;) back to his country. Showing that he does give a fuck for someone now. |
 πππ«π«π π±π¬π²π π₯ πΆπ¬π², πππ«π±π¦π«' πΆπ¬π² π΄π¦π±π₯ ππ©π© πͺπΆ πͺπ¦π€π₯π± ______________________ |
SweetSugah said: There are numerous Stands that return from the first universe. Also, someone's Stand is decided by who they are as a person. Diego having The World makes plenty of sense.But why does Diego have THE WORLD when he's supposed to be an entirely different beast from Dio? Also, you are aware that Scary Monsters wasn't really his Stand. |
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| @SweetSugah Shitty upbringing, mother he loved being beaten by drunkard father, desire to gain more power. Diego and Dio are different, but share similarities, which, I think, makes The World make sense. |
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SweetSugah said: You have to be reminded that this Dio with The World is not Diego. For all we know, he never had a rough childhood, there is also a possibility he never knew Gyro and the others.Wiziliz said: There are numerous Stands that return from the first universe. Also, someone's Stand is decided by who they are as a person. Diego having The World makes plenty of sense. Also, you are aware that Scary Monsters wasn't really his Stand. No, there aren't. The only other instance I can think of is Killer Queen in Part 8 and even THAT functioned differently from the one in Part 4. Diego having The World makes 0 sense because HE IS NOT DIO! He's not some tyrant seeking to attain world domination or anything, he just wanted to get back at all those people who made his and his mother's life a living hell. Really, if Araki rewrote The World's power set even SLIGHTLY that would've fixed this problem. As it stands, it was just a cheap, forced attempt at fanservice that actually HAMPERED all the character development Diego underwent over the course of SBR. This new Dio (or we call Alternative Universe Dio), is almost the same as the Dio in the original universe, which is a majestic bastard, but a bastard true and through. The Dio we see in the final fight is as an asshole as the first Dio we ever knew. This is not the Diego we knew during the course of SBR. |
πππ«π«π π±π¬π²π π₯ πΆπ¬π², πππ«π±π¦π«' πΆπ¬π² π΄π¦π±π₯ ππ©π© πͺπΆ πͺπ¦π€π₯π± ______________________ |
| I don't know if it was necesary, but it was very poetic, defeating jhonny like in part 1, and also DIO himself being defeated for his own head, like he defeated the original jonathan joestar. I liked the ending very much, and I consider that it would have not been the same if just F.V. was the ''final boss'' |
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Caliente said: You're saying that as if he WAS a Gary Stu up until that point. He WASN'T. Johnny was a depressed, self loathing, sarcastic and cold blooded asshole who'd do anything to achieve his ends. When you flat out admit that your goals are less righteous than the main villain's, you know you're the furthest thing from a Gary Stu. Having the main protagonist LOSE just totally flies in the face of the core basics of storytelling. It renders the entire journey meaningless. But I Don't think johnny actually ever gave a shit about winning the race. Wasn't his goal from the start to find out about the spin from gyro, then after that, to find the corpse? EDIT: also, many series have the main protag lose and they're still good. Plus, he only lost the race, which again, was not the main goal of the series. |
gccincNov 12, 2019 1:38 AM
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