Why do people like to compare this to Kaiji, and... (minor spoilers for BOTH anime series)

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Just because they're both gambling, so they expect it to be like Kaiji, which is stupid, yeah.

Bad and dumb enough that some people find this having ecchi in comparison with Prison School or that it's damn near hentai level. lmao

Aug 28, 2017 1:03 AM

#11

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Kaiji is the kinda like the kingpin of gambling manga(anime), so it was bound to happen. It's not the first time this has happened either. It's like an inevitable step that every gamble manga(anime) has to take.

Aug 28, 2017 3:28 AM

#12

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tackman said:
Kaiji is the kinda like the kingpin of gambling manga(anime), so it was bound to happen. It's not the first time this has happened either. It's like an inevitable step that every gamble manga(anime) has to take.

This isn't new? It happened to ALL of them before? So dumb to me... Even Akagi? If so, that's even dumber to me, since it came before Kaiji and is made by the same creator.

Aug 28, 2017 4:38 AM

#13

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4Dissinity said:

tackman said:
Kaiji is the kinda like the kingpin of gambling manga(anime), so it was bound to happen. It's not the first time this has happened either. It's like an inevitable step that every gamble manga(anime) has to take.

This isn't new? It happened to ALL of them before? So dumb to me... Even Akagi? If so, that's even dumber to me, since it came before Kaiji and is made by the same creator.

It's dumb for sure, but that's how big of an influence Kaiji has in Japan.

Aug 28, 2017 10:55 AM

#14

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tackman said:

4Dissinity said:

This isn't new? It happened to ALL of them before? So dumb to me... Even Akagi? If so, that's even dumber to me, since it came before Kaiji and is made by the same creator.

It's dumb for sure, but that's how big of an influence Kaiji has in Japan.

Oh, I was talking about the West, but Japan is this way too? Wow. Sort of reminds me of how they are regarding things even a little similar to One Piece.

Aug 28, 2017 4:18 PM

#15

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If you do not compare art, how can you measure its quality?
People aren't comparing every aspect of Kaiji and Kakegurui--they are comparing, the basic aspect, of each series:
The high-stakes gambling.

I watched the 1st episode, of Kakegurui. The moment it was revealed that students pick which cards the players receive, I automatically knew the game was rigged.
In contrast, Kaiji is far, FAR more subtle with this. Unless you are spoiled, or pay a ridiculously close amount of attention, you will never knew when a character in Kaiji cheats. And it's never an asspull, either. There are subtle hints.
We never see Yumeko's thought process in this game card game--her doubts, her theories, her mental state of mind. We are just told that the opponent is cheating. At the last minute, BAM! Yumeko reveals she knew all along. The "mirror trick" wasn't hinted at either, as I recall.

Just going by the 2nd ep of Kaiji, it beats Kakegurui in villains. Kaiji, unlike other anime, does not portray its villains as being so over-the-top its cartoony. Yes, they smile evilly, but there's a layer of subtlety and realism to them, that Kakegurui lacks. Just compare this:

http://imgur.com/ziLNjaO

...To this...

http://imgur.com/45js8M6

Now tell me, which of these smiles appears more despicable? Which one makes you hate the character more?
The first villain in Kaiji we are introduced is Funai: a seemingly nice guy who wants to team up with Kaiji...only to take advantage of his naieveness and backstab him, thus severely decreasing Kaiji's chances to get out of a massive debt he owes to the fucking yakuza. Yet, Funai's motivation makes sense: they're in a gambling cruise ship. Everyone-for-himself, in other words.
The first villain in Kakegurui we are introduced is Maria: a seemingly nice girl who is QUICKLY revealed to be a bitch, who sits on a guy like he's her pet, and who's evil smile is shown automatically. Why does she challenge Yumeko? Just to screw with her!

Aug 28, 2017 5:51 PM

#16

DVDMeister

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Jun 2016

12

ThatCynicalOtaku said:
If you do not compare art, how can you measure its quality?
People aren't comparing every aspect of Kaiji and Kakegurui--they are comparing, the basic aspect, of each series:
The high-stakes gambling.

I watched the 1st episode, of Kakegurui. The moment it was revealed that students pick which cards the players receive, I automatically knew the game was rigged.
In contrast, Kaiji is far, FAR more subtle with this. Unless you are spoiled, or pay a ridiculously close amount of attention, you will never knew when a character in Kaiji cheats. And it's never an asspull, either. There are subtle hints.
We never see Yumeko's thought process in this game card game--her doubts, her theories, her mental state of mind. We are just told that the opponent is cheating. At the last minute, BAM! Yumeko reveals she knew all along. The "mirror trick" wasn't hinted at either, as I recall.

Just going by the 2nd ep of Kaiji, it beats Kakegurui in villains. Kaiji, unlike other anime, does not portray its villains as being so over-the-top its cartoony. Yes, they smile evilly, but there's a layer of subtlety and realism to them, that Kakegurui lacks. Just compare this:

http://imgur.com/ziLNjaO

...To this...

http://imgur.com/45js8M6

Now tell me, which of these smiles appears more despicable? Which one makes you hate the character more?
The first villain in Kaiji we are introduced is Funai: a seemingly nice guy who wants to team up with Kaiji...only to take advantage of his naieveness and backstab him, thus severely decreasing Kaiji's chances to get out of a massive debt he owes to the fucking yakuza. Yet, Funai's motivation makes sense: they're in a gambling cruise ship. Everyone-for-himself, in other words.
The first villain in Kakegurui we are introduced is Maria: a seemingly nice girl who is QUICKLY revealed to be a bitch, who sits on a guy like he's her pet, and who's evil smile is shown automatically. Why does she challenge Yumeko? Just to screw with her!

You have said many things I disagree with.

You never know when a person in Kaiji cheats due to it being very subtle? No. I cannot agree with that being true. I find it very obvious that someone cheats in Kaiji. Examples:

The only one where I could say that you won't know if there was a cheater straight away was the very first game of Kaiji. That's it. Even then, it's still very easy to predict who WOULD be a cheater.

And there were hints in Kakegurui that show even more that something is up before being revealed that there's a cheater. The very first game, with how Yumeko did the same play-style again in order to bait Mary into making it even more obvious to herself that she was cheating. Yeah, the mirror thing wasn't hinted, but it's not like it needs to be. Just as long as it doesn't sound too far-fetched with how she figured it out, which it didn't at all, I'm fine with the sort of thing. I like being surprised and seeing it all make sense.

So a main reason they're over-the-top cartoony is because of how they exaggeratedly smile? And you're acting like there are no cartoony villains in Kaiji, or at least compared to Kakegurui? Hyoudou is a pure and clear example.

http://imgur.com/ks0R9dv

Yes, quite a number of Kakegurui's antagonists smile viciously, but that's it's style. The exaggeration of their overconfidence, greed, or whatever great emotion back within themselves blown full-force right at your face. And it's not like this sort of thing is new anyway, nor is it like everyone does this sort of thing, nor is it like they do it often besides Midari (Yumeko too, but she does it even less than Midari). Yes, even to the degree of Kakegurui's. And you're acting like Kakegurui never has normal cocky smiles or something. And Mary at the time also chuckled to herself when Yumeko continued to play after losing big twice while thinking to herself that she's done for big time. Sounds like someone to dislike for sure, just as much as Funai, except for the reason of just acting like a bitch at the time. And Funai was shown quickly to be an ass himself. Not as quickly as Mary, but still quickly.

It's fine to "compare art", but to expect one to be more like whatever that it's being compared to in order to deem it as good or not, imo, is silly (not to mention pretty boring, tbh). You are comparing the two while acting like Kakegurui definitely should be something more like what you really enjoyed much before, like Kaiji, in order for it to be enjoyable when that is not true at all. It is almost entirely doing it's own thing, and it was obvious from the beginning that it was never going to be something like Kaiji. Even before the show even aired was this pretty obvious, not only due to PVs if you ever looked at them, but also with what it is listed as, a shounen, with Kaiji being a seinen. So what if Kakegurui doesn't have a traitor like Kaiji? It's not like it needs to. It doesn't need to have a great reason to have someone be a greedy jerk/bitch either (which her reason, while stupid, IS realistic, nonetheless) like Kaiji does. Kaiji didn't need to develop most of (if not any) their characters much, which is what Kakegurui does, in order for it to be enjoyable, does it? Like I've said, they are both mostly doing their own things.

DVDMeisterAug 28, 2017 6:11 PM

Aug 28, 2017 6:24 PM

#17

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Jul 2018

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DVDMeister said:

ThatCynicalOtaku said:
If you do not compare art, how can you measure its quality?
People aren't comparing every aspect of Kaiji and Kakegurui--they are comparing, the basic aspect, of each series:
The high-stakes gambling.

I watched the 1st episode, of Kakegurui. The moment it was revealed that students pick which cards the players receive, I automatically knew the game was rigged.
In contrast, Kaiji is far, FAR more subtle with this. Unless you are spoiled, or pay a ridiculously close amount of attention, you will never knew when a character in Kaiji cheats. And it's never an asspull, either. There are subtle hints.
We never see Yumeko's thought process in this game card game--her doubts, her theories, her mental state of mind. We are just told that the opponent is cheating. At the last minute, BAM! Yumeko reveals she knew all along. The "mirror trick" wasn't hinted at either, as I recall.

Just going by the 2nd ep of Kaiji, it beats Kakegurui in villains. Kaiji, unlike other anime, does not portray its villains as being so over-the-top its cartoony. Yes, they smile evilly, but there's a layer of subtlety and realism to them, that Kakegurui lacks. Just compare this:

http://imgur.com/ziLNjaO

...To this...

http://imgur.com/45js8M6

Now tell me, which of these smiles appears more despicable? Which one makes you hate the character more?
The first villain in Kaiji we are introduced is Funai: a seemingly nice guy who wants to team up with Kaiji...only to take advantage of his naieveness and backstab him, thus severely decreasing Kaiji's chances to get out of a massive debt he owes to the fucking yakuza. Yet, Funai's motivation makes sense: they're in a gambling cruise ship. Everyone-for-himself, in other words.
The first villain in Kakegurui we are introduced is Maria: a seemingly nice girl who is QUICKLY revealed to be a bitch, who sits on a guy like he's her pet, and who's evil smile is shown automatically. Why does she challenge Yumeko? Just to screw with her!

You have said many things I disagree with.

You never know when a person in Kaiji cheats due to it being very subtle? No. I cannot agree with that being true. I find it very obvious that someone cheats in Kaiji. Examples:

The only one where I could say that you won't know if there was a cheater straight away was the very first game of Kaiji. That's it. Even then, it's still very easy to predict who WOULD be a cheater.

And there were hints in Kakegurui that show even more that something is up before being revealed that there's a cheater. The very first game, with how Yumeko did the same play-style again in order to bait Mary into making it even more obvious to herself that she was cheating. Yeah, the mirror thing wasn't hinted, but it's not like it needs to be. Just as long as it doesn't sound too far-fetched with how she figured it out, which it didn't at all, I'm fine with the sort of thing. I like being surprised and seeing it all make sense.

So a main reason they're over-the-top cartoony is because of how they exaggeratedly smile? And you're acting like there are no cartoony villains in Kaiji, or at least compared to Kakegurui? Hyoudou is a pure and clear example.

http://imgur.com/ks0R9dv

Yes, quite a number of Kakegurui's antagonists smile viciously, but that's it's style. The exaggeration of their overconfidence, greed, or whatever great emotion back within themselves blown full-force right at your face. And it's not like this sort of thing is new anyway, nor is it like everyone does this sort of thing, nor is it like they do it often besides Midari (Yumeko too, but she does it even less than Midari). Yes, even to the degree of Kakegurui's. And you're acting like Kakegurui never has normal cocky smiles or something. And Mary at the time also chuckled to herself when Yumeko continued to play after losing big twice while thinking to herself that she's done for big time. Sounds like someone to dislike for sure, just as much as Funai, except for the reason of just acting like a bitch at the time. And Funai was shown quickly to be an ass himself. Not as quickly as Mary, but still quickly.

It's fine to "compare art", but to expect one to be more like whatever that it's being compared to in order to deem it as good or not, imo, is silly (not to mention pretty boring, tbh). You are comparing the two while acting like Kakegurui definitely should be something more like what you really enjoyed much before, like Kaiji, in order for it to be enjoyable when that is not true at all. It is almost entirely doing it's own thing, and it was obvious from the beginning that it was never going to be something like Kaiji. Even before the show even aired was this pretty obvious, not only due to PVs if you ever looked at them, but also with what it is listed as, a shounen, with Kaiji being a seinen. So what if Kakegurui doesn't have a traitor like Kaiji? It's not like it needs to. It doesn't need to have a great reason to have someone be a greedy jerk/bitch either (which her reason, while stupid, IS realistic, nonetheless) like Kaiji does. Kaiji didn't need to develop most of (if not any) their characters much, which is what Kakegurui does, in order for it to be enjoyable, does it? Like I've said, they are both mostly doing their own things.

That's why I compared only the things they have in common.
-Both are gambling anime
-Both have over-the-top tones
I'm nearly done with season 1 of Kaiji, and aside from a few faces from the Chairman, all the expressions feel exaggerated, but not exaggerated to a point where they're cringe, like all the ones I've seen in Kakegurui.
Yes, Kaiji has exaggerated expressions, but take note how unlike most anime, the character faces do not distort themselves: as in, go so off-model that they hardly resemble the original expression.
The over the top expressions in Kaiji are used to convey evil the villains are, and they're genuinely evil. Art is exaggeration, after all.
What are THESE supposed to convey?:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/36DCxCPUKzg/maxresdefault.jpg

http://imgur.com/HLRCQDf

http://animebee.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/1500766636_572_kakegurui-13.jpg

"Yeah, the mirror thing wasn't hinted, but it's not like it needs to be."
I don't think you know the importance of foreshadowing...

Aug 28, 2017 9:55 PM

#18

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Jan 2016

211

4Dissinity said:

Oh, I was talking about the West, but Japan is this way too? Wow. Sort of reminds me of how they are regarding things even a little similar to One Piece.

Ehh, I wouldn't say it's the same as being compared to One Piece. Kakegurui and the other gambling manga/anime being compared to Kaiji is imo far more reasonable than that, since they are comparing an aspect that becomes the foundation of the show. It's kinda natural that, Kaiji, being an successful example of the execution of the gambling aspect, would become a criteria for all the gambling manga/anime that would follow its path. And not all the gambling manga are bashed in the name of comparison. Some of the relative greenhorns such as Liar Game and Usogui have been praised to have surpassed Kaiji in their own way. Imo, I don't mind comparing unless it becomes a excuse to bash each other.

Aug 28, 2017 11:14 PM

#19

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Jun 2016

220

ThatCynicalOtaku said:

DVDMeister said:

You have said many things I disagree with.

You never know when a person in Kaiji cheats due to it being very subtle? No. I cannot agree with that being true. I find it very obvious that someone cheats in Kaiji. Examples:

The only one where I could say that you won't know if there was a cheater straight away was the very first game of Kaiji. That's it. Even then, it's still very easy to predict who WOULD be a cheater.

And there were hints in Kakegurui that show even more that something is up before being revealed that there's a cheater. The very first game, with how Yumeko did the same play-style again in order to bait Mary into making it even more obvious to herself that she was cheating. Yeah, the mirror thing wasn't hinted, but it's not like it needs to be. Just as long as it doesn't sound too far-fetched with how she figured it out, which it didn't at all, I'm fine with the sort of thing. I like being surprised and seeing it all make sense.

So a main reason they're over-the-top cartoony is because of how they exaggeratedly smile? And you're acting like there are no cartoony villains in Kaiji, or at least compared to Kakegurui? Hyoudou is a pure and clear example.

http://imgur.com/ks0R9dv

Yes, quite a number of Kakegurui's antagonists smile viciously, but that's it's style. The exaggeration of their overconfidence, greed, or whatever great emotion back within themselves blown full-force right at your face. And it's not like this sort of thing is new anyway, nor is it like everyone does this sort of thing, nor is it like they do it often besides Midari (Yumeko too, but she does it even less than Midari). Yes, even to the degree of Kakegurui's. And you're acting like Kakegurui never has normal cocky smiles or something. And Mary at the time also chuckled to herself when Yumeko continued to play after losing big twice while thinking to herself that she's done for big time. Sounds like someone to dislike for sure, just as much as Funai, except for the reason of just acting like a bitch at the time. And Funai was shown quickly to be an ass himself. Not as quickly as Mary, but still quickly.

It's fine to "compare art", but to expect one to be more like whatever that it's being compared to in order to deem it as good or not, imo, is silly (not to mention pretty boring, tbh). You are comparing the two while acting like Kakegurui definitely should be something more like what you really enjoyed much before, like Kaiji, in order for it to be enjoyable when that is not true at all. It is almost entirely doing it's own thing, and it was obvious from the beginning that it was never going to be something like Kaiji. Even before the show even aired was this pretty obvious, not only due to PVs if you ever looked at them, but also with what it is listed as, a shounen, with Kaiji being a seinen. So what if Kakegurui doesn't have a traitor like Kaiji? It's not like it needs to. It doesn't need to have a great reason to have someone be a greedy jerk/bitch either (which her reason, while stupid, IS realistic, nonetheless) like Kaiji does. Kaiji didn't need to develop most of (if not any) their characters much, which is what Kakegurui does, in order for it to be enjoyable, does it? Like I've said, they are both mostly doing their own things.

That's why I compared only the things they have in common.
-Both are gambling anime
-Both have over-the-top tones
I'm nearly done with season 1 of Kaiji, and aside from a few faces from the Chairman, all the expressions feel exaggerated, but not exaggerated to a point where they're cringe, like all the ones I've seen in Kakegurui.
Yes, Kaiji has exaggerated expressions, but take note how unlike most anime, the character faces do not distort themselves: as in, go so off-model that they hardly resemble the original expression.
The over the top expressions in Kaiji are used to convey evil the villains are, and they're genuinely evil. Art is exaggeration, after all.
What are THESE supposed to convey?:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/36DCxCPUKzg/maxresdefault.jpg

http://imgur.com/HLRCQDf

http://animebee.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/1500766636_572_kakegurui-13.jpg

You're making it sound like Kakegurui's insane faces were supposed to be appealing. When it comes to how much detail they have, yeah, they are in a way, but otherwise, they were never supposed to. They are supposed to be as ridiculous, crooked, weird, twisted, jacked up, etc. as possible. Even though the faces aren't as exaggerated in Kaiji, there is still very exaggerated and ridiculous behaviors regardless, as you've pretty much already knew and said yourself. So in the sense, they're not really realistic either. Also, like TC had said himself, what Kakegurui does with it's faces isn't anything new, and he already said what they've conveyed. It's pretty obvious...

tackman said:

4Dissinity said:

Oh, I was talking about the West, but Japan is this way too? Wow. Sort of reminds me of how they are regarding things even a little similar to One Piece.

Ehh, I wouldn't say it's the same as being compared to One Piece. Kakegurui and the other gambling manga/anime being compared to Kaiji is imo far more reasonable than that, since they are comparing an aspect that becomes the foundation of the show. It's kinda natural that, Kaiji, being an successful example of the execution of the gambling aspect, would become a criteria for all the gambling manga/anime that would follow its path. And not all the gambling manga are bashed in the name of comparison. Some of the relative greenhorns such as Liar Game and Usogui have been praised to have surpassed Kaiji in their own way. Imo, I don't mind comparing unless it becomes a excuse to bash each other.

Well, I also don't necessarily mind people comparing the two at all and I do agree that using it as an excuse to bash one another is stupid, but I do agree with TC as well. Someone comparing one gambling series to another and expected the one they are comparing to be similar to the other that they've either enjoyed or that is successful is pretty ridiculous when it clearly showed otherwise in a heartbeat.

Okay, maybe not One Piece. How about that it's like comparing two different 2D fighting games, like Street Fighter with Guilty Gear? The HP bar concept, the way to execute special moves, having supers, and that it's in general both 2D fighting games are there, but everything else are sorely their own thing. One's shounen, the other's seinen, one's in high school, the other isn't, one's full of teens, the other isn't, I think these are already signs that show that I should just go in with my own mindset for what it is by itself.

By the way, now that you've reminded me of the two, while what you've said is true about Liar Game and Usogui is, I've also seen quite a number of people who said that neither of the two are nearly as good or tense as Kaiji due to one reason or another that is not what they've expected from it like they got from Kaiji...

4DissinityAug 28, 2017 11:25 PM

Aug 29, 2017 1:17 AM

#20

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Jan 2016

211

4Dissinity said:

Well, I also don't necessarily mind people comparing the two at all and I do agree that using it as an excuse to bash one another is stupid, but I do agree with TC as well. Someone comparing one gambling series to another and expected the one they are comparing to be similar to the other that they've either enjoyed or that is successful is pretty ridiculous when it clearly showed otherwise in a heartbeat.

Okay, maybe not One Piece. How about that it's like comparing two different 2D fighting games, like Street Fighter with Guilty Gear? The HP bar concept, the way to execute special moves, having supers, and that it's in general both 2D fighting games are there, but everything else are sorely their own thing. One's shounen, the other's seinen, one's in high school, the other isn't, one's full of teens, the other isn't, I think these are already signs that show that I should just go in with my own mindset for what it is by itself.

By the way, now that you've reminded me of the two, while what you've said is true about Liar Game and Usogui is, I've also seen quite a number of people who said that neither of the two are nearly as good or tense as Kaiji due to one reason or another that is not what they've expected from it like they got from Kaiji...

I get your point, but I'm not saying that every aspect of a show needs to be the same when comparing. All those points you just gave are indeed what separates the 2, and if somebody tries to compare Kaiji and Kakegurui by mentioning those parts, then they're just looking in the wrong direction. What I'm saying is that the core means of portraying the central themes of both Kaiji and Kakegurui is gambling, and this is what's being compared right now.

About Liar Game and Usogui, I can see Liar Game not being as good since the ending was one of the worst endings I've seen. As for Usogui, it has a very distinctive style that's certainly not for everyone, so that I can understand as well, but is the verdict coming from the western community? I'm not saying Japanese communities are superior, but we have read over 500+ chapters, so we kinda have a better evidence of judgement compared to the English communities which only has 120+ chapters translated.

Aug 29, 2017 1:25 AM

#21

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Jul 2018

561872

[quote=4Dissinity message=52108310]

ThatCynicalOtaku said:

DVDMeister said:

You have said many things I disagree with.

You never know when a person in Kaiji cheats due to it being very subtle? No. I cannot agree with that being true. I find it very obvious that someone cheats in Kaiji. Examples:

The only one where I could say that you won't know if there was a cheater straight away was the very first game of Kaiji. That's it. Even then, it's still very easy to predict who WOULD be a cheater.

And there were hints in Kakegurui that show even more that something is up before being revealed that there's a cheater. The very first game, with how Yumeko did the same play-style again in order to bait Mary into making it even more obvious to herself that she was cheating. Yeah, the mirror thing wasn't hinted, but it's not like it needs to be. Just as long as it doesn't sound too far-fetched with how she figured it out, which it didn't at all, I'm fine with the sort of thing. I like being surprised and seeing it all make sense.

So a main reason they're over-the-top cartoony is because of how they exaggeratedly smile? And you're acting like there are no cartoony villains in Kaiji, or at least compared to Kakegurui? Hyoudou is a pure and clear example.

http://imgur.com/ks0R9dv

Yes, quite a number of Kakegurui's antagonists smile viciously, but that's it's style. The exaggeration of their overconfidence, greed, or whatever great emotion back within themselves blown full-force right at your face. And it's not like this sort of thing is new anyway, nor is it like everyone does this sort of thing, nor is it like they do it often besides Midari (Yumeko too, but she does it even less than Midari). Yes, even to the degree of Kakegurui's. And you're acting like Kakegurui never has normal cocky smiles or something. And Mary at the time also chuckled to herself when Yumeko continued to play after losing big twice while thinking to herself that she's done for big time. Sounds like someone to dislike for sure, just as much as Funai, except for the reason of just acting like a bitch at the time. And Funai was shown quickly to be an ass himself. Not as quickly as Mary, but still quickly.

It's fine to "compare art", but to expect one to be more like whatever that it's being compared to in order to deem it as good or not, imo, is silly (not to mention pretty boring, tbh). You are comparing the two while acting like Kakegurui definitely should be something more like what you really enjoyed much before, like Kaiji, in order for it to be enjoyable when that is not true at all. It is almost entirely doing it's own thing, and it was obvious from the beginning that it was never going to be something like Kaiji. Even before the show even aired was this pretty obvious, not only due to PVs if you ever looked at them, but also with what it is listed as, a shounen, with Kaiji being a seinen. So what if Kakegurui doesn't have a traitor like Kaiji? It's not like it needs to. It doesn't need to have a great reason to have someone be a greedy jerk/bitch either (which her reason, while stupid, IS realistic, nonetheless) like Kaiji does. Kaiji didn't need to develop most of (if not any) their characters much, which is what Kakegurui does, in order for it to be enjoyable, does it? Like I've said, they are both mostly doing their own things.

That's why I compared only the things they have in common.
-Both are gambling anime
-Both have over-the-top tones
I'm nearly done with season 1 of Kaiji, and aside from a few faces from the Chairman, all the expressions feel exaggerated, but not exaggerated to a point where they're cringe, like all the ones I've seen in Kakegurui.
Yes, Kaiji has exaggerated expressions, but take note how unlike most anime, the character faces do not distort themselves: as in, go so off-model that they hardly resemble the original expression.
The over the top expressions in Kaiji are used to convey evil the villains are, and they're genuinely evil. Art is exaggeration, after all.
What are THESE supposed to convey?:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/36DCxCPUKzg/maxresdefault.jpg

http://imgur.com/HLRCQDf

http://animebee.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/1500766636_572_kakegurui-13.jpg

You're making it sound like Kakegurui's insane faces were supposed to be appealing. When it comes to how much detail they have, yeah, they are in a way, but otherwise, they were never supposed to. They are supposed to be as ridiculous, crooked, weird, twisted, jacked up, etc. as possible. Even though the faces aren't as exaggerated in Kaiji, there is still very exaggerated and ridiculous behaviors regardless, as you've pretty much already knew and said yourself. So in the sense, they're not really realistic either. Also, like TC had said himself, what Kakegurui does with it's faces isn't anything new, and he already said what they've conveyed. It's pretty obvious...

But for what purpose are those faces twisted?

-To show how psychotic the characters are? They're dumb highschoolers worrying about something as stupid as social status in school.
-To show how creepy the characters are? Again, they're just dumb highschoolers. I've literally heard nobody say that they found Kakegurui's faces "creepy" except for one person in a Youtube comment.
-They're clearly not meant to be comedic, like Prison School.
That's why I don't understand what tone Kakegurui is going for.

For as much as Akame ga Kill is called "edgy" for its exaggerated faces, they at least served a purpose: to show how psychotic the villains are...because they're actually psychotic.

Aug 29, 2017 2:21 AM

#22

Offline

Jun 2016

220

tackman said:

I get your point, but I'm not saying that every aspect of a show needs to be the same when comparing. All those points you just gave are indeed what separates the 2, and if somebody tries to compare Kaiji and Kakegurui by mentioning those parts, then they're just looking in the wrong direction. What I'm saying is that the core means of portraying the central themes of both Kaiji and Kakegurui is gambling, and this is what's being compared right now.

About Liar Game and Usogui, I can see Liar Game not being as good since the ending was one of the worst endings I've seen. As for Usogui, it has a very distinctive style that's certainly not for everyone, so that I can understand as well, but is the verdict coming from the western community? I'm not saying Japanese communities are superior, but we have read over 500+ chapters, so we kinda have a better evidence of judgement compared to the English communities which only has 120+ chapters translated.

That's true, and I know. I'm not saying that either (if I did or implied it, then my bad). As I've said before, it's fine to do that. It's just that those are signs to me that their way of gambling is probably going to be different as well.

It's been years ago when I've seen a couple people say the sort of thing about Usougi (where as the Liar Game, I've still seen people do the sort of thing nowadays), but I think it's the Japanese? I don't think I've ever seen anyone in the English community even mentioning Usougi.

ThatCynicalOtaku said:

But for what purpose are those faces twisted?

-To show how psychotic the characters are? They're dumb highschoolers worrying about something as stupid as social status in school.
-To show how creepy the characters are? Again, they're just dumb highschoolers. I've literally heard nobody say that they found Kakegurui's faces "creepy" except for one person in a Youtube comment.
-They're clearly not meant to be comedic, like Prison School.
That's why I don't understand what tone Kakegurui is going for.

For as much as Akame ga Kill is called "edgy" for its exaggerated faces, they at least served a purpose: to show how psychotic the villains are...because they're actually psychotic.

Once again, I, along with TC, had already told you what purposes they are twisted like that for... and it's clearly not just about the social status in the school. As far as I can tell, popularity doesn't even matter much to most of these characters. Creepiness is just a little subjective example as to why the faces are so twist. In general, they are twisted to obviously make them look as insane or exaggerated as possible in a type of emotion they have. I really don't see how that is so hard to understand, and it's not like this is anything new.

You've never seen anyone else say that they were creepy before besides one measly comment on Youtube? How often do you even get around, and not just on this site? I'm not even trying to be mean. Even a few users said it here about certain deranged faces, all from the same thread of this anime page.

Finally, to basically say that this series crazy faces don't serve a purpose... I hope you're not serious, dude. :/ But if you basically said that about Akame ga Kill as another way of saying that you don't realize the purpose in Kakegurui, then that's already been said.

4DissinityAug 29, 2017 2:24 AM

Aug 29, 2017 4:29 PM

#23

Offline

Jul 2018

561872

ThatCynicalOtaku said:

But for what purpose are those faces twisted?

-To show how psychotic the characters are? They're dumb highschoolers worrying about something as stupid as social status in school.
-To show how creepy the characters are? Again, they're just dumb highschoolers. I've literally heard nobody say that they found Kakegurui's faces "creepy" except for one person in a Youtube comment.
-They're clearly not meant to be comedic, like Prison School.
That's why I don't understand what tone Kakegurui is going for.

For as much as Akame ga Kill is called "edgy" for its exaggerated faces, they at least served a purpose: to show how psychotic the villains are...because they're actually psychotic.

Once again, I, along with TC, had already told you what purposes they are twisted like that for... and it's clearly not just about the social status in the school. As far as I can tell, popularity doesn't even matter much to most of these characters. Creepiness is just a little subjective example as to why the faces are so twist. In general, they are twisted to obviously make them look as insane or exaggerated as possible in a type of emotion they have. I really don't see how that is so hard to understand, and it's not like this is anything new.

You've never seen anyone else say that they were creepy before besides one measly comment on Youtube? How often do you even get around, and not just on this site? I'm not even trying to be mean. Even a few users said it here about certain deranged faces, all from the same thread of this anime page.

Finally, to basically say that this series crazy faces don't serve a purpose... I hope you're not serious, dude. :/ But if you basically said that about Akame ga Kill as another way of saying that you don't realize the purpose in Kakegurui, then that's already been said. [/quote]

Yeah, the faces are obviously supposed to be insane. That I get.
But WHY, are these characters insane, that they WARRANT those insane faces?
Drifters: Everyone loves to KILL people
Kakegurui: Everyone are just asshole highschoolers and they get horny from gambling (why? Just...why?)...I guess?
"The facial expressions are there to exaggerate every emotion"
Anime always exaggerates.
But you can only exaggerate so much before the meaning of what's being exaggerate dissapears.

This is another reason why people compare Kaiji and Kakegurui: because both have insane faces. Except in Kaiji, the characters, are actually insane, so the goofy insane faces actually match.
Kaiji has an old yakuza boss who forces people to kneel on hot stoves when they apologize, AND gets excited at the image of a drill piercing a man's eardrum.

Aug 29, 2017 8:44 PM

#24

GangsterCat

Offline

Sep 2016

4605

>asking why people comparing kakegurui with kaiji
>proceed with paragraphs of comparing kakegurui with kaiji

kek lul

CrossAnge

Hey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste)

Aug 29, 2017 9:59 PM

#25

ziggy_Z

Offline

Mar 2014

4596

GangsterCat said:
>asking why people comparing kakegurui with kaiji
>proceed with paragraphs of comparing kakegurui with kaiji

kek lul

The outcome? End up with an entire thread comparing the two. Classic.

Aug 30, 2017 1:45 AM

#26

DVDMeister

Offline

Jun 2016

12

ThatCynicalOtaku said:
Yeah, the faces are obviously supposed to be insane. That I get.
But WHY, are these characters insane, that they WARRANT those insane faces?
Drifters: Everyone loves to KILL people
Kakegurui: Everyone are just asshole highschoolers and they get horny from gambling (why? Just...why?)...I guess?
"The facial expressions are there to exaggerate every emotion"
Anime always exaggerates.
But you can only exaggerate so much before the meaning of what's being exaggerate dissapears.

This is another reason why people compare Kaiji and Kakegurui: because both have insane faces. Except in Kaiji, the characters, are actually insane, so the goofy insane faces actually match.
Kaiji has an old yakuza boss who forces people to kneel on hot stoves when they apologize, AND gets excited at the image of a drill piercing a man's eardrum.

Why would they not? They are risking and betting millions of dollars, fingernails, lives metaphorically and even literally, etc. Given situations when they're going to win or lose (or at least think they are), this is all justified. You don't have to literally be insane to have the feeling of wanting to push as much of your greedy or cocky emotions and whatnot as much as possible when you think you're going to win so very big from a very risky game or etc. And yeah, anime usually exaggerate, but to exaggerate this much isn't new either. I don't think really there is that much of a limit.

By the way, there's only two people who truly get horny over gambling in Kakegurui, and no, not every character in Kaiji that does an crazy face is literally insane.

GangsterCat said:
>asking why people comparing kakegurui with kaiji
>proceed with paragraphs of comparing kakegurui with kaiji

kek lul

ziggy_Z said:

GangsterCat said:
>asking why people comparing kakegurui with kaiji
>proceed with paragraphs of comparing kakegurui with kaiji

kek lul

The outcome? End up with an entire thread comparing the two. Classic.

You two are joking, right? I didn't ask this as a way of saying that they shouldn't be compared at all.

DVDMeisterAug 30, 2017 3:49 AM

Sep 3, 2017 3:23 PM

#27

Offline

Jan 2011

3305

As someone who has never seen Kaiji before. I really don't like this show for reasons nt oeven related to this. The fanboys of it like to strawman me as a "kaiji fanboy" but fail to realize not everyone who has seen Kaiji before. I don't like the show because everyone is pretty much the same character and there is a lack of depth along with a lot of poor writing choices and asspulls.

But somehow it is okay because it is shouen and not suppose to make sense from an narrative standpoint says the fanboys.

This has to be some of the most broken logic I have ever seen. I swear more and more, I think people hate thinking too deeply about something they like.

I got a Masters degree. I don't have to worry bout school anymore.

Sep 3, 2017 3:26 PM

#28

Offline

Jan 2011

3305

I swear Kakegurui is the anime of the season you can't criticize because the fanboys will get mad and will damage control and defend everything that is stupid about it.

"Everyone is just rich and character!"

Fanboy: That's the point! It's so be over the top!

"There is a lack of character depth."

Fanboy: You're taking it too serious!

"I think the show is full of asspulls and Jambei can't lose!"

Fanboy: that's fine! Who cares if she wins! She is the main character!

This is every Kakegurui fan in a nutshell.

I got a Masters degree. I don't have to worry bout school anymore.

Sep 3, 2017 3:51 PM

#29

M49

Offline

Jul 2016

28

MasterHavik said:
As someone who has never seen Kaiji before. I really don't like this show for reasons nt oeven related to this. The fanboys of it like to strawman me as a "kaiji fanboy" but fail to realize not everyone who has seen Kaiji before. I don't like the show because everyone is pretty much the same character and there is a lack of depth along with a lot of poor writing choices and asspulls.

But somehow it is okay because it is shouen and not suppose to make sense from an narrative standpoint says the fanboys.

This has to be some of the most broken logic I have ever seen. I swear more and more, I think people hate thinking too deeply about something they like.

MasterHavik said:
I swear Kakegurui is the anime of the season you can't criticize because the fanboys will get mad and will damage control and defend everything that is stupid about it.

"Everyone is just rich and character!"

Fanboy: That's the point! It's so be over the top!

"There is a lack of character depth."

Fanboy: You're taking it too serious!

"I think the show is full of asspulls and Jambei can't lose!"

Fanboy: that's fine! Who cares if she wins! She is the main character!

This is every Kakegurui fan in a nutshell.

You might want to take a break from this site, because you're seriously acting like this only happens regarding Kakegurui during this season when that's obviously not true, or that you're acting like it happens the most regarding Kakegurui when that isn't true either. I can tell that this sort of behavior you are showing is mainly happening due to the responses you've had on the thread you've made.

https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1651541

When you make this type of topic, of course you're going to have people disagreements. Not to mention that you are very clearly exaggerating, especially when what you've said about the "fanboys" behavior isn't even all true, even regarding how every "fanboy" thinks that you're a Kaiji fanboy when clearly that's not true. For example, the thread I linked. Not everyone in the sort of thread you've made while also disagreeing with what you've said had even made such an assumption about you.

To be quite honest, you're not really making yourself look any better than the one's you have such a problem with.

M49Sep 3, 2017 4:10 PM

Sep 3, 2017 5:28 PM

#30

Offline

Jan 2011

3305

M49 said:

MasterHavik said:
As someone who has never seen Kaiji before. I really don't like this show for reasons nt oeven related to this. The fanboys of it like to strawman me as a "kaiji fanboy" but fail to realize not everyone who has seen Kaiji before. I don't like the show because everyone is pretty much the same character and there is a lack of depth along with a lot of poor writing choices and asspulls.

But somehow it is okay because it is shouen and not suppose to make sense from an narrative standpoint says the fanboys.

This has to be some of the most broken logic I have ever seen. I swear more and more, I think people hate thinking too deeply about something they like.

MasterHavik said:
I swear Kakegurui is the anime of the season you can't criticize because the fanboys will get mad and will damage control and defend everything that is stupid about it.

"Everyone is just rich and character!"

Fanboy: That's the point! It's so be over the top!

"There is a lack of character depth."

Fanboy: You're taking it too serious!

"I think the show is full of asspulls and Jambei can't lose!"

Fanboy: that's fine! Who cares if she wins! She is the main character!

This is every Kakegurui fan in a nutshell.

You might want to take a break from this site, because you're seriously acting like this only happens regarding Kakegurui during this season when that's obviously not true, or that you're acting like it happens the most regarding Kakegurui when that isn't true either. I can tell that this sort of behavior you are showing is mainly happening due to the responses you've had on the thread you've made.

https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1651541

When you make this type of topic, of course you're going to have people disagreements. Not to mention that you are very clearly exaggerating, especially when what you've said about the "fanboys" behavior isn't even all true, even regarding how every "fanboy" thinks that you're a Kaiji fanboy when clearly that's not true. For example, the thread I linked. Not everyone in the sort of thread you've made while also disagreeing with what you've said had even made such an assumption about you.

To be quite honest, you're not really making yourself look any better than the one's you have such a problem with.

First off, you really don’t know me but you came at me respect let me pay you back. For starters, I should say some of the fans I have interacted with have not been good. But before I get deeper into that, let me tackle the first part of your post.

“ You might want to take a break from this site, because you're seriously acting like this only happens regarding Kakegurui during this season when that's obviously not true, or that you're acting like it happens the most regarding Kakegurui when that isn't true either.”

Break? Nah, I’m fine dude. It’s just this show really bothers me in all the wrong ways. Frist off, you really don’t know me dude. I know it’s not only Kakegurui. I should be more exact and say that some fans of the show really get on my nerves. So long story short, no duh I know it’s not Kakegurui. Thanks for treating me like I watched anime yesterday. Next, you’ll ask me if I know who Hideki Anno is or not.

Now onto the second part of this, once again I just feel I should have been more exact of who is really bothering me when it comes to fans of this show. And how some of them make excuses for its writing and characters. It’s like you can’t criticize this show or any big show of the season. It is like everyone has rally behind the flavor of the season and if you don’t like you must be silence. So, I don’t like how you are acting like Kakegurui are perfect little angels and they did anything wrong. Lastly, that is only one thread dude. You don’t know me. I’m not saying this to be rude, but I’m just being honest you really don’t know me. Now with all that said, I felt I was clear with what I didn’t like about the show. And there were really nice people in that thread that help me out and even gave me manga spoilers. They took the time to understand my problems with the show and tried to show me some things to make me change my mind, or that it may get deeper later on. But some of the people there just knew I was upset at the writing and lack of character depth with the show. I wasn’t trying to be right, but point out what I thought was a problem with the show. I’m not crazy, or insane. Just extremely disappointed in a show, I thought could have been amazing but it is just a polished turd with yuribait and everyone being a nutbag every two seconds.

“When you make this type of topic, of course you're going to have people disagreements. Not to mention that you are very clearly exaggerating, especially when what you've said about the "fanboys" behavior isn't even all true, even regarding how every "fanboy" thinks that you're a Kaiji fanboy when clearly that's not true. For example, the thread I linked. Not everyone in the sort of thread you've made while also disagreeing with what you've said had even made such an assumption about you.”

Yes, I will have disagreements. I don’t mind that. I’m not exaggerating anything. There were rude people in there that were just being fanboys. Was it everyone? Obviously not. But those people really get on my nerves dude because I feel they aren’t taking the time to process what I am saying. Keyword: saying, not just blindly agreeing with me. I don’t want that. It doesn’t help anyone I talk to regrading this show. Who is a fan of it are quick to call me a fan of Kaiji when I have never seen that show before. I’m sorry, but that’s a strawman. And a very awful assumption to make about people because they aren’t gushing over your favorite show. Hell, I didn’t even do this to friends who found LWA to be boring and uninteresting. What I would do interest is sell them the show and convince them, not only why I like it but why it’s very good. I think you’re going to win someone over if you start off like this, “Kakegurui is a very beautiful show with excellent art and animation that I recommend because of the good art direction and how tense each and every game is. It is over the top but in a good with. With very pretty girls to boot.”

See? When you present the show, or any show for that matter, to someone you are going to get them to listen better to you. This is more effective than just taking a shit all over everything someone says because you don’t like it. Can you disagree? Of course, you can, but there is a way to do it. So, you just call me the problem and some of the fans of the show not is kind of mess up. I’m not perfect yes. I will also admit sometimes I joke too much in my criticism of shows, that people will take it the wrong way and start getting defensive for no reason. For example, I did a poor job explaining how the main girl always wins by trying to make it a dumb joke. I think it was, “LOL main win bitches!” Looking back, I felt that was my biggest mistake in that post. I felt if I just said, “I think the show is predictable because the main character always wins. So, there is no stakes or tense because if she loses the story is over.” Or make a better joke along the lines of, “LOL the main character will always win bitches!” Something was a little more direct to the point could have helped me. I understand how it is important to make yourself look in front of others, but sometimes I think people ignore the obvious jackasses who are saying incorrect shit. But maybe I was expecting too much. Maybe I wanted everyone to be like that manga reader who was so helpful. In the end, I know to dial back on the humor and make not try to blow everything out of proportion. I should just be more direct. Though, it still bothers me how some of the fans assume if you don’t like the show because you like another show to be really annoying. I love to write and read for fun. I’m a com major with a minor in animation. I’m just someone who likes animation in general, and loves shows and stories that give you some good writing. I try not to go out of my way to bash every show because that isn’t helpful. I try to point out problems and how they can be better. (With what I learned from the manga reader and Mother Basement’s video. I feel Kakegurui won’t be taking my advice any time soon, or if at all to be honest.). So that’s me.

MasterHavikSep 3, 2017 5:31 PM

I got a Masters degree. I don't have to worry bout school anymore.

Sep 3, 2017 5:49 PM

#31

TsukuyomiREKT

Offline

May 2015

5426

MasterHavik said:
I swear Kakegurui is the anime of the season you can't criticize because the fanboys will get mad and will damage control and defend everything that is stupid about it.

"Everyone is just rich and character!"

Fanboy: That's the point! It's so be over the top!

"There is a lack of character depth."

Fanboy: You're taking it too serious!

"I think the show is full of asspulls and Jambei can't lose!"

Fanboy: that's fine! Who cares if she wins! She is the main character!

This is every Kakegurui fan in a nutshell.

Or, people just like something you don't. Shocking, I know.

Sep 3, 2017 7:37 PM

#32

Offline

Jan 2011

3305

Kittens-kun said:

MasterHavik said:
I swear Kakegurui is the anime of the season you can't criticize because the fanboys will get mad and will damage control and defend everything that is stupid about it.

"Everyone is just rich and character!"

Fanboy: That's the point! It's so be over the top!

"There is a lack of character depth."

Fanboy: You're taking it too serious!

"I think the show is full of asspulls and Jambei can't lose!"

Fanboy: that's fine! Who cares if she wins! She is the main character!

This is every Kakegurui fan in a nutshell.

Or, people just like something you don't. Shocking, I know.

Read the post above. I went into detail with this. But let me shock you. That post you're responding was done on poor taste in my part. It wasn't a good post at all.

I got a Masters degree. I don't have to worry bout school anymore.

Sep 7, 2017 9:34 AM

#33

MagusCarnival

Offline

Sep 2016

8

bastek66 said:
Because Kaiji is only (straightforward) gambling anime they watched. I guess most of them also watched NGNL but due to being stuck up pricks they didn't get it and treated it seriously (which is fucking wrong).

This. So much this. This is how I feel. I'm not even hating since I like the shows myself, but god...

Sep 11, 2017 8:44 PM

#34