A Case for Ginti's and Mayu's Decision

Mar 21, 2015 11:24 AM

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Apr 2011

In the end of episode 11, Ginti casts Mayu and Harada into the void. How did it come to this? How can Ginti be so heartless considering Mayu seemed to be faultless enough to be reincarnated?

The facts are:
1. Harada is deemed to go to the void from his actions during the game with Mayu. Even if he regretted his actions trying to push Mayu off, the fact that he attempted to do so in combination of his misdeeds while he was alive pushed him over the edge to become sent to the void.

2. Mayu is deemed to be reincarnated. It was clear from Ginti's words in the beginning of episode 11 that Mayu does not deserve to be sent to the void.

3. Ginti was actively trying to help Harada by bringing a person who's much more worse than Harada (Light Yagami LOL) and having him replace Harada to be sent to the void so that Harada can be reincarnated.

4. Ginti leaves this decision to Mayu, who he believes is worth determining where Harada's soul should go. He reaffirms this before Mayu leaves by asking her what Harada means to her.

5. The Void is a bad place, a place embodying "terror, despair, and regret." There is no incentive for Ginti to have been lied to about the place the void is and there is no incentive for Ginti to lie to Mayu about the true nature of the void.

Now with all the facts in place, let's go through how the end result became as such. Ginti establishes that from the Twister game, Harada is to be cast into the void and explains to Mayu what it means to be sent to the void. Ginti proposes a solution for Harada to be reincarnated: have him be replaced by someone worse so that in the theoretical game that they play, Harada would be reincarnated and the replacement (Light) will be sent to the void. But rather than going through with this decision, he consults and leaves the decision to Mayu.

At 4:42 mark of episode 11, Ginti tells Mayu that all humans are selfish and cling to life in the face of death, and this has been the defining concept behind Ginti's decisions (he's never had second thoughts about his judgements). But the interesting thing is Mayu and Harada's game has completely shattered his defining concept. Mayu actively seeked out death out of selfishness/selflessness (depending on perspective) and thus shattered Ginti's motto of never second guessing his judgements. Because Mayu has proven Ginti wrong, he decides to leave Mayu to decide for Harada, not because Harada can't speak for himself, but because Mayu has displayed "inhuman" tendencies and is thus fit to become a temporary "arbiter" (at least for the person whom she chose to die for).

So now Mayu is the arbiter and the two choices she's given is to give up Harada to the void or give up Light to the void. She is given the details of what the void is like so that Mayu can judge accordingly (bad people sent to void). When Mayu asks for Light's memories (what the person is like), Ginti replies coolly with "[Do you want to know] What kind of person [it takes] to cast Harada into the void?" This question posed to Mayu does two things: It asks Mayu whether she believes that Harada should be cast into the void in the first place assuming that the game was played with a different person (not herself), and it also asks Mayu whether she believes that s person she knows nothing about deserve to be sent to the void compared to Harada of which she has a fond memory. This ultimate decision is presented to Mayu and she decides that Harada does indeed deserve to go to the void and that it'd be better for Harada to be sent to the void rather than someone she does not know (knowing what Harada is like).

And so Ginti's decision becomes that of Mayu's. Harada is to be cast into the void, but he does one last thing that is not fitting of his motto. He also let's Mayu become her own arbiter and allows her to decide whether she wants to be cast into the void or to be reincarnated. Mayu decides that she will go with Harada to the void. The elevator "karma switch" changing is not a surprise to anyone considering Mayu has deemed Harada should be sent to the void and that she will be following him. But the last interesting thing is the usage of the elevator. In all the cases we've seen, people have been sent to the void/reincarnation in different elevators, but in this case, Harada and Mayu were placed in the same elevator. Ginti decides that Mayu's decision to follow Harada into the void (choosing death in the face of death rather than life; again shattering Ginti's main motto) deserves some recognition and finally, with Mayu's confirmation that Harada is her entire life, casts them both to the void to be together in the graveyard of the souls. This can be seen by the two souls uniting as one when they are cast off into the void.

So, considering Mayu's decision to have Harada sent to the void rather than somebody she does not know, and Mayu's decision to follow Harada to the void because Harada is her "life", Ginti respects her decisions and casts them to the void together so that they can be united during their journey into the void.

TL;DR Ginti's decision is the best one possible considering Mayu's decision.

BONUS: Interesting use of Light as a comparison with Harada as we viewers (familiar with the Death Note series) know that Light is 100% worse than Harada and deserves to be sent to the void, but in Mayu's perspective (now knowing what Light has done), she believes Light to be a better person that Harada considering her final decision. To the viewers, her decision is the "wrong" one (Mayu and Harada could've both been reincarnated and Light cast into the void) but to her, the decision is the "right" one (Light deserves to be fairly judged despite his actions during the realm of the living and objectively Harada should be sent to the void). Goes to show the conundrum that is being an arbiter.

Mar 21, 2015 5:09 PM

BMD

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Mar 2015

One thing that's the key to why she did chose be reincarnated instead of being sent to the void: when her hand "broke" and she realized she and Harada were going to be dummies she was surprised, she said "What's this?!" because she realized that if Harada's soul was going to come back from the Void then they wouldn't be turning into dummies. She was surprised because she, just then, realized that she would go to the void, and she keeps a sad face for the same reason.

This ultimate decision is presented to Mayu and she decides that Harada does indeed deserve to go to the void and that it'd be better for Harada to be sent to the void rather than someone she does not know (knowing what Harada is like).

That's the key part you got wrong. She decided to sacrifice Light, that's why Ginti had to change the faces on the elevators; so that she would believe she was going to be reincarnated with Harada.

The elevator "karma switch" changing is not a surprise to anyone considering Mayu has deemed Harada should be sent to the void and that she will be following him.

That makes no sense at all. If she had decided to go to the Void with him in the first place then she could've just entered the elevator with the demon-like face. And you can say "It was to surprise the person watching!" I keep saying it's wrong. If I were Mayu and had just chosen to enter into the Void I would go right away to the elevator that would lead me to the Void.

I know it's kinda sad this whole side-plot but is it really worth making deductions that big just so you can accept that sad ending? C'mon, you know that when Mayu found out about Harada she said she didn't care about what he did, why the hell would she care now? And if she did start caring about Harada being a cheater why wasn't it shown on screen even if that would be a important part of her character development?

Accept the sad ending and move on...

BMDMar 21, 2015 5:21 PM

Mar 21, 2015 5:35 PM

TheTsunami

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Jun 2007

555

Harada was sent to the void. Ginti couldn't reach a judgement on Mayu. Ginti baited Mayu into committing an act worthy of being sent to the void (choosing to condemn a stranger to eternal torment for selfish reasons). While Decim and his human emotions wants to understand humans, Ginti simply wants to do his job and move on, regardless of what tactics he has to employ to get his result.

Mar 21, 2015 5:42 PM

Brynhildr

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Sep 2013

3999

magic_claw93 said:
In the end of episode 11, Ginti casts Mayu and Harada into the void. How did it come to this? How can Ginti be so heartless considering Mayu seemed to be faultless enough to be reincarnated?

They are arbiters. They aren't supposed to feel any emotion. Here your answer. The premise itself of your question is at fault.

Once an alt always an alt! | ( ˇ෴ˇ ) | I ♥ Music

Mar 22, 2015 3:43 AM

Epicenter

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Nov 2012

863

I don't agree with the op, but I don't get this whole arbiters no emotion thing, or at the very least how people treat it as a fact just because the story says so. It's not like Ginti acts like this calculating computer just doing his job. Unless I'm missing something, Ginti clearly shows anger, annoyance and frustration multiple times, he seems pretty emotional to me. He just seems like a very assholeish human to me.

I haven't seen any character in this entire anime who is devoid of emotions.

Jaywalker.

Mar 22, 2015 4:15 AM

Chanaynay

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Jul 2013

909

TheTsunami said:
While Decim and his human emotions wants to understand humans, Ginti simply wants to do his job and move on, regardless of what tactics he has to employ to get his result.

Yes, I think the whole reason Mayu is sent to the void is to underline this point exactly - to show how messed up the judgment system actually is when it does not factor in human nature/emotion.

Mar 22, 2015 6:04 AM

Len-K

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Jan 2015

I also believe Mayu decided to sacrifice Light. The point is, human emotions and actions don't always match - logic may say one thing, but feelings often times overcome logic. Let's take an extreme scenario: a person has to choose between saving their beloved one and saving the lives of a thousand people. Logically speaking 1000>1, but if the person is dedicated to his/her lover, how would s/he value the lives even of a thousand strangers?
Same with Mayu - she is ready to sacrifice herself, but instead she has to make a choice - this is the trial for her destination. She was sent to the void because she didn't try to be fair in judging Harada and Light. For me the question is: does love acquit such decisions? According to Ginti: obviously not. Letting them be together might have been a sign of mercy on his behalf though.

Mar 22, 2015 6:59 AM

fathertime

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Oct 2014

217

i thought it was pretty clear.Mayu decided to sacrifice a stranger so that her crush could come back.So she was also sent to the void alongwith Harada.

Sep 14, 2015 12:16 PM

sometaters

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Jul 2015

fathertime said:
i thought it was pretty clear.Mayu decided to sacrifice a stranger so that her crush could come back.So she was also sent to the void alongwith Harada.

This was pretty much my thought exactly when I realized they were getting sent to the void.

Very fun thread to read through though, great thoughts guys.

Oct 18, 2015 10:55 PM

#10

sparkmie

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Oct 2015

Hmmmm I may be wrong but my personal understanding of this after watching mayu and harada's scenes over and over I think mayu DID NOT choose to sacrifice Light (lol I was like this guy looks familiar and hahaha poor Light)

In the elevator at the very beginning Mayu was looking at her hand, I didnt pay much attention to that until the second time I watched it, I realised that it probably implies that Mayu chose to sacrifice herself, in order to take Harada's soul back. Thus Ginti was asking what Harada was to her, and Mayu also says 'maybe it wasnt a life I could boast about, but it was my choice to devote it to Harada!'. She said that she would devote her own life to Harada, and it 'was' her life, kind of suggesting that she knew her life is coming to an end. I dont think she would look as sad if she chose to sacrifice another person.

I do agree with the concept of Ginti using this as an 'entreme situation' to bring the worst out of Mayu, like what Decim did to Chiyuki, he gave her a chance to 'kill' a person so she can come back to life and have the chance to apologise to her mum, but chiyuki did not, therefore she passed the test and was sent to heaven.

Ginti was showing a grinny face when Mayu was about to press the button to sacrifice Light, however the anime did not really show Mayu pressing the button (like how chiyuki did not end up pressing the button on the extreme situation triggering device)

However the real sad thing with Mayu's case is that Mayu actually deserves to be sent to heaven, but instead she chose to save Harada's life and go to hell herself. And even sadder Harada is the one Ginti will definitely put to hell, but he did not tell Mayu this til the end. Well since there will be no extreme situation if Ginti reveals the truth behind it, or it is also that he wants to keep the last bit of hope in Mayu.

I think the white karma was suggesting that Mayu believed Harada's soul will be saved, and it turned to the devil's face afterwards meaning that Harada is not going to be saved, and Mayu is also going with him since it is her choice to go to hell.

It is just so hard for me to put in words how sad I find this. It would be much better if Mayu did choose to sacrifice another person and Ginti will be able to put her in hell with no doubt. He can then be confident in his theory about humans selfishness and how they are always wanting to cling to life when facing death. However I believe Ginti looked rather sad, not only because Mayu again did something out of his expectation, but also that that he finds this situation 'sad', like how decim felt 'sorrow' when he gave Chiyuki her extreme situation to judge her.

So Mayu said 'It was my choice to devote my life to Harada, That in itself has to mean something'. Then Ginti replied 'Wouldnt that be nice'. Or literally translating from Japanese 'it would be good if that was the case'. Because Ginti knew the whole sacrifice Mayu did to Harada was actually meaningless, it was merely for Ginti to give his final judgement of Mayu, because Harada would go to hell either way.

Even til the end Mayu believed that Harada would be saved, she asked Ginti 'He is really going to wake up, right?' Translating from Japanese 'me wo samasu', literally means 'open his eyes'. And Ginti was right about that Harada did open his eyes for a moment just before they both died....

I was reassured of this whole idea when I saw Ginti making a kokeshi doll out of Mayu on the very last episode. I think it suggests that til the end Mayu is someone Ginti won't forget, someone who has again and again done things that would make him reflect on his understanding of humans. Similarly to memorise Chiyuki, Decim has made a doll out of her on the last episode too.

I think Decim has learned from Chiyuki, and for Ginti it was Mayu. But different from Chiyuki who had a happy ending, Mayu ended up in hell, but maybe for her it is her happy ending because she ended up with Harada, the person that means her life.

Again this is just my personal understanding...I find that this idea makes more sense to me, but since the anime has not explicitly stated the whole Mayu Harada Ginti side plot as clearly as Decim and Chiyuki's main plot, it is free to picture any interpretation of what is being told.

But this just makes me cry, I would say Mayu and the murderer police guy would be my favourite characters of this anime (aww of course I want to be hugged by Decim too :) :)

Dec 10, 2015 5:28 PM

#11

-Cracker-

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Nov 2015

Mayu was helping Harada onto the seemingly reincarnation elevator so it does seem like Mayu chose to sacrifice light. Her expressions when her skin started to peel off made it clear she was surprised that she was going into the void. Arbiters should have no emotions so I don't get why Ginti had to deceive Mayu with the elevator. I have a feeling that Ginti is starting to develop emotions and guilt is weighing down on him when he sort of forced Mayu to go down the void path.

Apr 30, 2016 7:57 AM

#12

GaryMuffuginOak

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Mar 2015

650

I'm pretty sure Mayu chose to sacrifice light because at the end of the first scene with her and Ginti in episode eleven as she closed her eyes tightly, suggesting she chose to give up Light. She then confirms with Ginti that Harada's body will regain his soul as she goes down the elevator don't think she knows it's the void) "he really is going to wake up right?". So if she chose to sacrifice Light, then Ginti would have a reason to send her to the void, even though tricking her was a little cruel.

“Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's first law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth. But the world isn't perfect, and the law is incomplete..." -Alphonse Elric

"Then and now, what I protect has never changed!" -Sakata Gintoki

I'll take anything like The Pet Girl of Sakurasou. Anything as good as that.

Aug 11, 2016 8:07 AM

#13

TrashDax

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Jun 2015

9000

Seriously though, he just looked for a reason to send her to the void, just like

The dead are exposed to their arbiters arbitrary (fitting no?).

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A Case for Ginti's and Mayu's Decision

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