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I really wish people wouldn't lie to me to try to get me to watch Umineko no Naku Koro ni. That was my major reason for giving this thing a go.
Dangit, I want more Higger.;_;
Umineko is completly unconnected to Higurashi. Other then the fact that it is kind of in the same metaverse.
Although, there is the possibility that Ryukishi07 MIGHT cross them over at some point. But it has yet to happen.
ukonkivi said:
If all that was, was some fourth wall breaking commentary, I am going to be awfully ticked.
That was not just some forth wall breaking commentary. It really wasn't breaking the forth wall at all. In fact, that single scene just set up the primary plot line for the entire rest of the series. :P
I really wish people wouldn't lie to me to try to get me to watch Umineko no Naku Koro ni. That was my major reason for giving this thing a go.
Dangit, I want more Higger.;_;
Umineko is completly unconnected to Higurashi. Other then the fact that it is kind of in the same metaverse.
Although, there is the possibility that Ryukishi07 MIGHT cross them over at some point. But it has yet to happen.
ukonkivi said:
If all that was, was some fourth wall breaking commentary, I am going to be awfully ticked.
That was not just some forth wall breaking commentary. It really wasn't breaking the forth wall at all. In fact, that single scene just set up the primary plot line for the entire rest of the series. :P
In the game, they make so many small references to Higurashi that it's laughable. Not sure if this is going to happen, but one of the characters seemed to have a shirt that said "Tomitake Flash". Heh.
I always thought that the beginning Tea Party was a reference/parody of the original Wrap Party in Higurashi, where they discuss the outcome and speculate on the next game.
Of course, that's not what happened. So I think Battler (or all of them) were under some type of spell and Battler only broke through once the Beatrice topic came up.
In the game, they make so many small references to Higurashi that it's laughable. Not sure if this is going to happen, but one of the characters seemed to have a shirt that said "Tomitake Flash". Heh.
Don't worry, any tiny reference to Higurashi will be included, and probably expanded on, by DEEN.
Zedrane said: Actually, they already skipped one of the references to Higurashi.
Well, my post was mostly sarcastic, considering how much DEEN loves to whore out their first successful series. ;)
ukonkivi said:
Zedrane said: Umineko is completly unconnected to Higurashi.
I've already heard that several times already.
Stop rubbing in the disappointment.:/
Y'all are gonna make me miss Higurashi no Naku Koro ni even worse.
It's not COMPLETELY unconnected to Higurashi. You find out why the events of Higurashi transpired in the first place later on in Umineko.
They've already explained that.
Uh, not in the anime. That scenes not until Lambadelta comes into play.
P.S. "I'm... SUPER PAPER!" Hehehe. Hope they keep that line. :D
They've already had the discussion about Bern's endurance battle against Lambdadelta and how she only won because Lambda got tired of it. The next party just talks about it a little more. When episode 1 was released, game players already connected the dots that Lambdadelta equals 34.
They've already had the discussion about Bern's endurance battle against Lambdadelta and how she only won because Lambda got tired of it. The next party just talks about it a little more. When episode 1 was released, game players already connected the dots that Lambdadelta equals 34.
I guess. But it doesn't become perfectly clear until Lambadelta's talk with Bern-sama.
Cenedess said: Is this somehow possible to understand if I haven't played the game? XD I'm confused. But I like it :D
It's supposed to be confusing right now. You'd just be slightly less confused if you finished the first game.
Nah, I realise it's an anime that dosn't give you all the answers right away. So I don't even try thinking about it, I just watch and wait for the plot to become clear :D
- If you believe this place holds you, it is a prison.
If you do not wish to leave, it will become a fortress.
Current icon:
Kusuriuri from Mononoke
by pana (LJ username)
The storm passed, ......and the leaden clouds that had enshrouded the island for so long cleared away.
From the rifts between the clouds, sun beams shone, .....and yesterday's storm seemed like a lie.
In the harbour, just as someone had wished, the seagulls returned once again and let their lively cries be heard.
Afterwards, policemen came, and performed an inspection of the crime scene.
The corpses of the children, who were thought to have survived until the end, were not found after all, but from the pieces of the corpses that were found in that unimaginable gruesome crime scene, the police had no choice but to conclude hopelessly that the lives of all eighteen people, including the children, were lost...
How gruesome was the banquet of the witch?
Only they could tell the tale of how beautiful a place the Golden Land was...
Those who came after the banquet had ended couldn't tell of any tale. They could only imagine what had happened during those two days.
However, ...the witch was fickle.
She dared to leave this tale that had no need of telling behind,
and allow it to be told.
Then, many years later.
A strange wine bottle that had drifted on the waves to the pier of a neighbouring island was pulled out by a fisherman.
Inside it was a thin, tightly rolled notebook fragment, written upon in crammed small letters.
That was,............this tale.
People will know for the first time, through this notebook fragment, the enigma of the mystery-enshrouded October the 4th 1986, and the truth of those two days filled with strangeness.
This incident was later called "The Rokkenjima Mass Murder Incident", "The Rokkenjima Eighteen Murders" or such, but connoisseurs of the world came to refer to it as "The Witch's Legend Serial Murders Incident".
People who delved in the occult claimed that it was the aftermath of a corrupt ritual that had sealed the island, and as the story spread, the two days filled with mystery were embellished and twisted beyond recognition with each retelling.
However, even with all their interpretations, they will not be the ones to reach the truth of this incident.
And even though the notebook fragment in the wine bottle tells of this incident filled with mystery, it doesn't tell the whole truth.
That's right, ...perhaps not even the writer of the notebook knew the truth.
......It's possible that she wanted to know the truth.
According to the name written down,...her name is Ushiromiya Maria.
Furthermore, as the result of an all-out police investigation, concerning Maria, a body part, ...a piece of her jaw was found. It was a precious instance where they managed to identify the owner of a body part through dentist medical records.
...Since in that gruesome situation there were countless body parts whose ownership or even provenance couldn't be determined, it can probably be said that this jaw was an extremely fortunate find.
Due to the damage done to the jaw, the police investigation concluded that any hopes for their survival were extremely dim, even though no other parts were discovered or identified.
And so, let us tie this tale to the last sentence of the notebook fragment that Ushiromiya Maria left.
By the time you have read this, I will probably be dead.
Although there may or may not be a body.
You who have read this. Please find out the truth.
That's my only wish.
Ushiromiya Maria
The truth of "The Witch's Legend Serial Murders Incident" has not been brought to light even today.
1st Game "Legend of the golden witch" Result
Ushiromiya Krauss
Died at the first twilight.
Chosen by the key of the Golden Land, offered up as a sacrifice.
Ushiromiya Rudolf
Died at the first twilight.
Chosen by the key of the Golden Land, offered up as a sacrifice.
Ushiromiya Kyrie
Died at the first twilight.
Chosen by the key of the Golden Land, offered up as a sacrifice.
Ushiromiya Rosa
Died at the first twilight.
Chosen by the key of the Golden Land, offered up as a sacrifice.
Servant Shannon
Died at the first twilight.
Chosen by the key of the Golden Land, offered up as a sacrifice.
Servant Gohda
Died at the first twilight.
Chosen by the key of the Golden Land, offered up as a sacrifice.
Ushiromiya Eva
Died at the second twilight.
Pierced through the forehead by the 'Stake of Asmodeus'.
Ushiromiya Hideyoshi
Died at the second twilight.
Pierced through the forehead by the 'Stake of Beelzebub'.
Ushiromiya Kinzo
Died at the fourth twilight.
Forehead gouged by the 'Stake of Mammon'.
Servant Kanon
Died at the fifth twilight.
Chest gouged by the 'Stake of Satan'.
Servant Genji
Died at the sixth twilight.
Stomach gouged by the 'Stake of Lucifer'.
Attending Physician Nanjo
Died at the seventh twilight.
Knee gouged by the 'Stake of Belphegor'.
Servant Kumasawa
Died at the eighth twilight.
Leg gouged by the 'Stake of Leviathan'.
The Witch Beatrice
Revived at the ninth twilight.
She finally opens the door of the Golden Land.
Ushiromiya Natsuhi
Died at the ninth twilight.
The witch praised her nobility, and granted her the honor of a duel.
Ushiromiya George
Missing on the tenth twilight.
The witch, whose existence he recognized and whom he prostrated himself before, beckoned him to the Golden Land.
Ushiromiya Jessica
Missing on the tenth twilight.
The witch, whose existence she recognized and whom she prostrated herself before, beckoned her to the Golden Land.
Ushiromiya Maria
Missing on the tenth twilight.
The witch, whose existence she recognized and whom she prostrated herself before, beckoned her to the Golden Land.
Ushiromiya Battler
Missing on the tenth twilight.
Would the witch beckon he who did not recognize her existence and denied her to the Golden Land?
The witch will praise the wise, and should bestow four treasures in the Golden Land.
There, they should resurrect the souls of the dead, resurrect the love that was lost.
For, if what they desired were even a mountain of gold, it was not
something for them to obtain.
For George it was the fiancee he lost.
For Jessica it was the person in her thoughts she lost.
For Maria it was the love of her mother she lost.
Sleep peacefully, Beatrice.
A sleep from which no one shall disturb you again.
The winner is the Golden Witch, Beatrice.
All the eighteen people's time ran out before
the riddle of the gold was solved.
All eighteen people are dead.
When the Seagulls cry, there are no survivors.
In the visual novel you see the word "Purgatorio" before the tea party starts (scene where everyone is alive again and discusses how they met a bad end etc)
That's the extra bit of info the game has, that might make it less confusing.
Great episode and the pacing was key to this!
Reading all of these posts in the forum, helped me in understanding it a lot. xD
Like the whole 'purgatory' thingie and what not.
I root for Battler to try and figure out how a human could commit these murders.
so basically this anime works on the idea that perception = fact. If everyone believes in the witch, the witch exists. On the other hand, the fact that battler refuses to believe in the witch puts her very existence in peril. If he can prove that these things can be done by humans, then the witch never existed in the first place. Therefore Battler's own beliefs about what happened (and the proof he gathers to back that up) has a direct influence on what actually happened in reality.
This is getting good! On a side note, no matter how elegant and awesome she is,
Japayuki said: I'm pretty confused... but Rika! Or sorta like Rika. Definitely the same voice actress.
My hypothesis:
My opinion is that over hundreds of years suffering the same sad fate alongside Furude Hanyuu, created Furude Rika's more jaded personality, Furuderika Bernkastel. In which, doesn't have much powers in her current world, or that would present itself in anything other than relations to Hanyuu in her own at least space and time group. But in another section of the multiverse, this suffering essentially gave birth to the Witch Bernkastel.
My guess in how connected Furude Rika is connected to Furuderika Bernkastel, is that she is minutely aware and sometimes connected to that full part of herself, and is herself in that it is the jaded side of her mind and consciousness. But that her mind doesn't usually delve into the chasms of that, almost slit personality fact. Yes, I believe it's almost like a split personality thing and "sweet little Rika" personality is not all just an act. Just another side of her personality, really. And at the deepest sides of the "serious", jaded Rika, lie connected all the way to another side of the multiverse. Rika is a truly deep person indeed!
Zedrane said: Umineko is completly unconnected to Higurashi.
Lol.
Umineko is connected to higurashi. Bernkastel is a name Rika hided behin when she was stuck in her endless june. Basically I think that Rika tough that she shouldn't be trapped there and with Hanyu being able to revive her as many time as she wish she started to think the thing who happen to 'Rika' aren't her problem and thus slowly created a second personallity with time: Bernkastel.
As for what I think that, it's because we saw Rika in Higurashi finally realising that it is her problem and that she is concerned about what happen and that's what made her trying to fight against fate along with Keichi slowly opening her eyes that you can win against fate.
Rika finnaly won against Fate and with the talk with Reina finnally tough that it would be for the better if she stopped being the witch she is and returned being the little girl she was before the event.
I think that Hanyuu is more of a witch than a god and that she finally become visible to everyone in the last arc because they all aknowledged her existence in the world before that.
Now Rika should have returned being a normal girl but something unkown must have happened to make her rely on witch power again and taking yet again her former names.
Umineko is, I think, 3 year after Higurashi or something along this time but for a witch the world's time dont matter since they can live a million of yers in a decade if they want so tough we don't know if she is in the same world as the last one in Higurashi Kai.
I did not play higurashi novel but I played a little of umineko novel tough I can state some reference that they are linked.
-Rika in Higurashi Rei 4 stating that she should stop being the witch bernkastel and return to be furude rika.
-Beatrice in Umineko stating Bernkastel's power as so powerfull that as long as the probability is not 0% she can create a miracle out of it (an allusion to her beating her fate)
-I did not play this part in the novel but a friend told me that Bernkastel was using Rika's nippah and other stupid words who don't have any meaning
Now I am also full of others theorie but I guess I wrote enough for now. Note that what I said is not a fact and is my opinion, except some point that I pointed out who are fact.
Lol, it's because at the end of the episode a character appears (the witch Bernkastel) that has already been seen in another anime before: Higurashi no Nakukoro ni.
This makes no sense for me as I haven't played the game or read the manga, but whatever. I like the series. As long as it's clear at the end of the anime, I guess that's OK. But still, atm it makes no sense to me.
Well, I have my own ideas about how it works, but I can't be sure of those untill it's been confirmed, eh. ;P
This is confusing like crazy! So, is Battler dead and in some weird realm created by the witch? Or is he alive and just in an illusion? And what about it stating the case was never solved, then the message in the bottle which Maria worte which contained the truth?
And this is based on a video game? Same title? Cause after reading the first couple pages it seems most of the posters have played the game, read the manga, or saw some other anime that had some of the characters. But for someone like me who started watching it cause of one of the users on my friend list is watching it and it catching my eye, this is nothing but confusing and the posts on the first couple pages don't help much at all.
mangastar said: This is confusing like crazy! So, is Battler dead and in some weird realm created by the witch? Or is he alive and just in an illusion? And what about it stating the case was never solved, then the message in the bottle which Maria worte which contained the truth?
And this is based on a video game? Same title? Cause after reading the first couple pages it seems most of the posters have played the game, read the manga, or saw some other anime that had some of the characters. But for someone like me who started watching it cause of one of the users on my friend list is watching it and it catching my eye, this is nothing but confusing and the posts on the first couple pages don't help much at all.
Umineko will be confusing as hell for this entire season. In fact it gets around ten times more confusing. The next season will clear out all of the confusion.
Yes, Umineko is based off of a Sound Novel of the same title. A very good one might I add. There is also a manga but it is actually behind the anime. And there is an anime that comes before it in the same metaverse called Higurashi no Naku Koro ni but you do not have to watch it first since nothing at all carries over from it into Umineko.
The prime minister finally has a match.. Battler is possibly the most stubborn person in the world, his existence annoys me a great deal. Not just that the guy refuses to accept reality, he comes up with a bunch of excuses which makes no sense to argue it off. Not believing in witches, causing the deaths of his loved ones over a non-sensical challenge of belief. Battler is the worst!! I got to say.. I hate Battler.
Somehow, Natsuhi open fired against the golden butterfly which resulted in a mirror move that took her own life, a bullet through her skull. Battler broke down the door of the living room which Natsuhi had sealed to keep them away from danger to face off with the golden witch. Battler, George, and Jessica witnesses the collapsing Natsuhi yet Battler refuses to acknowledge the existence of the witch. Then, he open fires at the golden butterfly which appeared. The golden butterfly broke into pieces and transforms into multiple butterflies. Battler still refuses to acknowledge the existence of witches. In the end, they received the bad ending as that everyone is killed and is revived..
Beatrice is the Endless Witch. She kills, revives them and kill again so that she won't get bored. While holding an intellectual discussion, summarizing the events of their deaths between Battler, George, Jessica, Shannon, and Kanon.. Battler still refuses to accept the reality of the golden witch's existence which caused her to appear, killed everyone in the room, causing blood to splatter all over the places. Maria-chan broke into laughter while Battler continues to deny the witch's existence, claiming that he has a "scientific" approach to the situation. Battler claims that this is all the work of humans as opposed to superstitions like the witches as that witches don't exist and that witches can only exist if everyone believes in them. Honestly.. I hope they kill off Battler. Out of all the people, Battler deserves to die the most!!!
Kira01 said: The prime minister finally has a match.. Battler is possibly the most stubborn person in the world, his existence annoys me a great deal. Not just that the guy refuses to accept reality, he comes up with a bunch of excuses which makes no sense to argue it off. Not believing in witches, causing the deaths of his loved ones over a non-sensical challenge of belief. Battler is the worst!! I got to say.. I hate Battler.
Somehow, Natsuhi open fired against the golden butterfly which resulted in a mirror move that took her own life, a bullet through her skull. Battler broke down the door of the living room which Natsuhi had sealed to keep them away from danger to face off with the golden witch. Battler, George, and Jessica witnesses the collapsing Natsuhi yet Battler refuses to acknowledge the existence of the witch. Then, he open fires at the golden butterfly which appeared. The golden butterfly broke into pieces and transforms into multiple butterflies. Battler still refuses to acknowledge the existence of witches. In the end, they received the bad ending as that everyone is killed and is revived..
Beatrice is the Endless Witch. She kills, revives them and kill again so that she won't get bored. While holding an intellectual discussion, summarizing the events of their deaths between Battler, George, Jessica, Shannon, and Kanon.. Battler still refuses to accept the reality of the golden witch's existence which caused her to appear, killed everyone in the room, causing blood to splatter all over the places. Maria-chan broke into laughter while Battler continues to deny the witch's existence, claiming that he has a "scientific" approach to the situation. Battler claims that this is all the work of humans as opposed to superstitions like the witches as that witches don't exist and that witches can only exist if everyone believes in them. Honestly.. I hope they kill off Battler. Out of all the people, Battler deserves to die the most!!!
OBJECTION! This... I dunno... you´re kinda right^^