| I guess people are too stupid to do a little google search before running their mouth, Gate's source material came out first before Outbreak Company. If anything it's Outbreak Company that tried to rip this off and turn it into some slice-of-life otaku pandering bullshit that tries to fit every anime trope the author can think off. Heck, I only knew about Gate 2 years ago because someone mentioned that Outbreak Company was a Gate knock off on one of the MAL episode threads and back then I actually thought Outbreak Company was good then after deciding to check out Gate, I realized how much of a shitty knock off Outbreak Company was compared to Gate and the worst part is, Outbreak Company takes all the credit for being the first anime/manga to put the Japanese military against your average fantasy world. I also hate how Outbreak Company tries to blow spells and magic out of proportion for the sake of making fantasy looks superior to real life weapons when Gate on the other hand portrays real life military as superior to silly spells and magic which is something you rarely even see on an anime/manga. |
| Research? please most of those people who don't research don't even know what google is for except looking up pic of pretty kitties. |
| These things happen. I still remember the guy accusing JRR Tolkien of ripping off Harry Potter. Now that was funny! |
| The sword that takes life gives life |
LastChapter said: Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't that anime only have a bunch of random people and one otaku soldier that uses tanks and rocket launchers to hunt elves. Not exactly the same as the entire Japanese government and military being involved and trying to make diplomacy on the other side of the world. And if you want a blatant comparison of how Outbreak Company copied Gate, they both have the EXACT same scenes of fighting a red dragon and beating it with a rocket launcher. The thing that made Gate different to Outbreak Company is how they approached diplomacy but both the Japanese government in both of these series has the exact same goal while I can't find anything in Those Who Hunt Elves that involves the entire Japanese government and it's military.Because in this world exists secondaries. Not a surprise too that no one even falsely claims Gate is a rip-off of Elf wo Karu Mono-tachi. You might as well throw in Zero no Tsukaima into the mix while you're at it but real life military being superior to magic is not exactly the point I'm trying to make, I just used that as an example. |
| I would simply wait for several episodes til' finally make a judgement whether this is a OC's ripoff or not. Until that time, i and several people will simply call it based on what our short-term memories identify this series in accordance to other series with. That's what first impression is all about. |
| Gate is also better in how it describes the actual interaction of science with magic (hint: applying physics makes magic more effective). My first experience with tech and magic together is in a game, Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura. There though they put the interaction as a harmful one between the two, so neither can really improve the other. And to be fair, Outbreak Company features the original, Japanese definition of "otaku", while Gate's MC is the Western definition of "otaku" (another character will be the "Japanese otaku", and she won't make an appearance in the 2nd episode either). |
 |
| Some people neglect to do there homework before they start judging....I only read the manga but i know there is a difference as the novel came first than the light novel and than the manga. i also know that gate was before outbreak company but since OC anime came out first theya re using that as a comparison.. i mean it is not just gate every anime this season is being compared to a different series before despite them being different...Gangsta i have been hearing it compared to black lagoon and Aoharuu i am hearing a lot of it being compared to ouran host club...people always need something to compare to give something else a judgement. Trust me once other characters are introduced and the story gets going the reception and view of this series will change....i just wish they did not extend the Ginza incident for the whole episode....the real fun starts next week...oh i can't wait for the dragon fight and the ride of Valkyries haha. |
komic said: Research? please most of those people who don't research don't even know what google is for except looking up pic of pretty kitties. Yeah, people are simplistic. I bet that there's many amongst the Japanese themselves that would think OC came out first. Anyway, it doesn't matter which came first. This one appears to be more ware-fare oriented. OC was more about using diplomacy... through the exchange of Otaku culture. Gate seems to be more about using diplomacy... backed up with military might instead haha |
| I think you're in the minority that thinks that the community see GATE as outbreak company ripoff. "Similar" and "ripoff" are two different things |
Amiluhur said: I would simply wait for several episodes til' finally make a judgement whether this is a OC's ripoff or not. Until that time, i and several people will simply call it based on what our short-term memories identify this series in accordance to other series with. That's what first impression is all about. If you're okay with people laughing at you for it, more power to you. |
Amiluhur said: I would simply wait for several episodes til' finally make a judgement whether OC is a rip-off of this or not. Until that time, i and several people will simply call it based on what our short-term memories identify this series in accordance to other series with. That's what first impression is all about. fix'd |
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| Ikr? It's funny. |
 |
| what is Outbreak Company? |
| What would you expect from MAL? majority of users are animeonlyfags. |
rederoin said: Amiluhur said: I would simply wait for several episodes til' finally make a judgement whether this is a OC's ripoff or not. Until that time, i and several people will simply call it based on what our short-term memories identify this series in accordance to other series with. That's what first impression is all about. If you're okay with people laughing at you for it, more power to you. No one has laughed though. If anything, there are more people with this kind of mindset than the ones thinking otherwise on this particular subforum. Me? I'm fine either way. Not gonna affect my entertainment anyway. |
| At least in Gate there is competent modern military. In most such series the modern military is the "evil" side that attacks that "innocent and good" fantasy side that consists of 95% super powered moe girls... and with the help of plain normal high school or middle school teenage MC somehow the cute girls triumph over the "evil" military! Though in most settings the modern military gets pwned "off-screen" in the prologue to introduce some girls-only magic high school where a sole male MC joins in. |
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Grey-Zone said: At least in Gate there is competent modern military. In most such series the modern military is the "evil" side that attacks that "innocent and good" fantasy side that consists of 95% super powered moe girls... and with the help of plain normal high school or middle school teenage MC somehow the cute girls triumph over the "evil" military! Though in most settings the modern military gets pwned "off-screen" in the prologue to introduce some girls-only magic high school where a sole male MC joins in. Can you tell us those shows you are talking about? I'm actually curious. |
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
DawnJ said: Can you tell us those shows you are talking about? I'm actually curious. Well I now see I seem to have mixed up a few different synopes into a single one due to having watched the shows long ago. But to give a few examples of what I am talking about when I am saying "military portrayed as incompetent and/or weak": Outbreak company: The moment the military turns into a villain they become the "evil" that the "good" guys, i.e. average teenage Otaku and moe superhuman girls, prevail against. Hykka Ryouran: The very first scene is action girls obliterating 2nd WW fighter planes and establishing that they are by far superior to "normal" military weapons. IS: I didn't watch much of the series, but essentially only girls (and one guy) are able to operate superior weapons to fight an enemy that conventional military is helpless against. Same goes for most other "magic high school" series, though they probably don't have the "girls-only school" aspect. There are a few more of such series that I recall having watched (or read in cases of manga), whose names I can't recall right now. |
|
Takuan_Soho said: Really? If copying the exact same scene of beating a RED dragon with JSDF is not a big hint then I don't know what is. Take note that this isn't an ordinary dragon as both fantasy people in Gate and OC portrays the RED dragon as some sort of unbeatable final boss. The only excuse OC could have is if it's intentionally being a parody of Gate, since OC is a huge joke to begin with then I wouldn't be surprised if it really is.I get your point, and of course you are right that Gate is not a ripoff of OC, but you go too far to accuse OC of ripping off Gate. The idea of having a military fight in a fantasy land is far, far older than either show. Both are drawing on older material. And even if this were not the case, even if one was the originator, the other would still not be a rip-off. Stories have similar ideas, what is important is how the creator deals with the ideas. One Piece and Naruto are not "rip offs" of Dragon Ball because all three are about a boy hero in an interesting fantasy world going on a quest to become increasingly more powerful. Sharing themes does not make something a rip off. There is a reason why I even stated particularly in anime/manga. I even watched recently Those Who Hunt Elves in order to check out if it's similar to Gate but they are nothing alike aside from the characters having a tank in order to fight magical creatures but the context of the show is different to Gate and OC. Your example of comparing DBZ with Naruto and One Piece is a bad argument and I knew that someone would try to bring up that kind of comparison that inspired others or that has general similarities and compare it to Gate and OC that has SPECIFIC similarities. It also doesn't help that the concept of modern military against fantasy creatures and portraying the later as the inferior is a rare case, compared to other tropes like a hero has to fight a demon king trope which has been overdone to death in manga/LN that practically no one cares where that trope started while the concept behind Gate and OC is something that isn't common to begin with so it's easier to take notice. If someone wrote a series that involves mechas invading a fantasy magical world, then that series would be noticeable for a concept that is unique unlike your standard mecha or fantasy world. While you can't avoid having similarities in fiction, the similarities of Gate and OC is extremely identical in many ways and not just something you could easily dismiss as a coincidence. Let's see, both OC and Gate involves a "hole" that allows them to travel into a different world, involves the JSDF and the Japanese government, the Japanese authorities and rulers of the fantasy world tried to solve diplomacy only difference is it happened in Gate after the fantasy creatures got their ass kicked by the JSDF, portrays modern military as superior, the JSDF is a crucial theme of both series as in being in the JSDF and not just simple portrayal of modern military, both has an otaku main lead, both the MC had a major role on the other side of the world, has an elf as one of the major characters, they both have the same red dragon who was portrayed as unbeatable even against magic but was beaten by modern military weapons. You may be able to give examples of another series that has 1 or 2 similarities to Gate but you can't possibly have one that has this much comparison unless you try to cherry pick very minor similarities and take things out of context. |
| OC and gate have barely anything in common aside from the setting. |
| i created a club that is building up a emotional "feels" anime collections so if anyone wants to join it and get emotional together please come and join us <3 http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=18987 Click for link^ |
Takuan_Soho said: The dragon in Zero no Tsukaima was shot down by a single person stuck in a magic world and Saitou was practically the only one who uses those weapons anyway not an entire army of modern military. It's not even the same as Gate and OC where both considered as the rocket launcher to be the first thing that was able to harm the red dragon. That's why I bought up Zero no Tsukaima when someone bought up Those Who Hunt Elves as both has the same group of people who are stuck in a magical world who are trying to find a way to get out unlike in Gate and OC where the characters and the government constantly used the "hole" as a way to communicate and travel in both worlds.Then both are copying Zero no Tsukaima (predates by 7 years) when Satou shot down a dragon with a Zero (even worse the dragon's in both were dark on top, and red underneath). Red dragons are the norm, as the prototypical Smaug has always shown (and cover to the original DnD books), they are also associated with violence and fire (gold are usually noble dragons, blue water, black generic bad guy dragons, white snow dragons, green forest dragons). So that a red dragon would be a final, nearly unbeatable boss, predictable since the Hobbit speaking of which, Smaug likewise was invulnerable against weapons, except that one tiny hole). I never said the red dragon has to originate in Gate and OC, stop putting words on my mouth, it's how both modern military of both series dealt with it and how both people thought it was unbeatable using the perspective of the fantasy people with their magic and swords and how they reacted to the military weapons. This is why my entire first point has something to do with the actual scene instead of the dragon being red and unbeatable.There are standard motifs that EVERYONE uses, thinking that Gate or OC originated them just means you haven't read enough. Gates or portals, how else would they move back and forth? Even Zero no Tsukaima uses a gate (though it only occurs at certain times) and a portal. I already addressed this, see my previous point.Funny that in Japanese stories. I am sure you think every use of the USAF and US Government vs aliens copies a prior example as well. Japanese Constitution actually requires that. The "SD" in "JSDF". The Japanese don't like to think of themselves as belligerent, they leave that to the Americans. The funny thing is that I specifically said JSDF, so you will not use an example like Imperial Japanese army fighting in the fantasy world or American military doing the same. Not because I didn't know JSDF is supposed to be defensive military. It's not like it exists anyway as I failed to find any other fiction that involves modern military fighting and infiltrating the fantasy world and not the other way around. Since you bought up modern military in the fantasy world was an older idea, why don't you give me a legit example? Not even TVtropes could provide that example.Which they are. But that right there is a major difference between Gate and OC. Huge, that alone would make things completely different. Changes dynamics dramatically (if OC made the sides equal). Hence why I said in the OP "If anything it's Outbreak Company that tried to rip this off and turn it into some slice-of-life otaku pandering bullshit that tries to fit every anime trope the author can think off."You decided to quote me on the rip-off part and ignore the rest of what I said. I'm very well aware that OC copied the very core idea of Gate which is diplomacy with the other world and tried to do a different approach. If it didn't, it would be down right plagiarism but that doesn't meant it didn't tried to rip-off some of the core ideas in Gate and plastered it in OC and turn everything else into comedy. Target audience being.... Seriously, it would be like complaining about a tsundere character (and I am sure both have one as well). You do realize I only bought this up to compliment the other more relevant points that I've bought up, right?Were they both golden elves that can be used for fanservice? Again target audience being.... Oh, Zero no Tsukaima also has a golden elf as a major character (in season 2), go figure. Except that I already gave a reason why Zero no Tsukaima is nothing like Gate, try again.All the "similarities" you stated are minor, extremely minor. The only real difference between both these shows and Zero no Tsukaima is that Satou is more ettchi than otaku, and uses magic to know how to use military weapons against fantasy creatures (zero fighter against dragon, bazooka against a golem) instead of having him being a JSDF member. First of all I already warned you about cherry picking and it seems like the only thing you were able to provide me are cherry picked examples of more common tropes and somehow failed to provide me an example that that are more linear to Gate and OC's comparison. It's like you're purposely trying to play blind to prove your point. Zero no Tsukaima has no important core similarity that makes it a valid comparison to Gate and OC, they are both different when it comes to plot and settings and you were only able to provide minor similarities at best while at the same time you choose to downplay some of the important examples that I made as a minor example when all of those key points in Gate and OC actually connects and not something were you can cherry pick an example from another fiction and call it a day. Sure, you maybe able to find a series where a modern military fights a dragons while being in a fantasy world but will you find another one that has that and also involves the Japanese government trying to have diplomatic relations with the fantasy people at the same time? Or the fact that both of the main characters has a major role like being involved with the Princess all at the same time? You can choose one or two but you can't have as much as comparison like the one Gate and OC had without cherry picking like what you're doing currently. If Zero no Tsukaima is the best comparison you can come up with Gate then that is not enough to convince me.Is Gate then just a "copy" of Zero no Tsukaima? No, they do different things. |
| Someone saying that Outbreak Company is just like Gate would be saying a Volkswagen Bug is just like a high end Mercedes. They are both cars, true, but there's just a liiiiiittle difference there. ;-) |
| The sword that takes life gives life |
Takuan_Soho said: And all of your examples are as just as bad as Zero no Tsukaima and you still fail to address the point of it being close to OC and Gate comparison. I'm going to make it easy for you. Show me examples of fiction as SPECIFIC, LINEAR, and ACCURATE as the comparison as you get in OC and Gate if you want me to take back on what I said about OC ripping off Gate. You act as if OC only copied only the modern military aspect of Gate and ignore things such as diplomacy and other points I've bought up earlier which is all goes back whether OC is ripping Gate off on an SPECIFIC idea or not and not just general and vaguely similar concepts. The fact that you even bought Warhammer which takes place in the far future and something that resembles Napoleon proves that you can't get any examples that is straight up the same concept as linear, as accurate, and as specific as Gate and OC used. Heck, the worst you can possibly do is give me an example of fantasy magical creatures coming and invading earth instead of us invading them and call it similar to Gate and OC comparison just to prove solely the military vs. fantasy point of view while ignoring the others. You are pretty much grasping at straws at this point.^^ DnD doubled down on this concept back in the early 80's where they had a module where an advanced alien spaceship land and you could get laser weapons to fight dragons (I am showing my age when I say that I had bought the original). Even Lord of the Rings brought the idea of gunpowder into a fantasy world. The idea that "dark age" man fighting "modern man" goes back to Fritz Lieber's 1958 story "the Big Time", and 1960's Poul Anderson novel "High Crusade", where aliens land in 14th century England and learned to regret it . If we really want to take this concept backwards we have Twain's "A Connecticut in King Arthur's Court". A modern example would be 2000's Eric Flint novel "1632". The 2006 novel "Her Majesty's Dragon" created an alternative world where Dragons could have been deployed against Napoleon. There was also the 2002 film "Reign of Fire" where Dragons awake in modern London. The Warhammer series sets the fantasy creatures in the far future, but the situation is the same. We could also draw upon Zelzany's works on this topic (whether technology recreating ancient cultures, or the Amber series). I am not going to play the "but it isn't exactly the same thing" game. The concept is at least 60 years old, and there are probably better examples that I can't quote off the top of my head. Sufficient to say, if one can envision medieval man fighting against modern technology, then imagining modern technology going against a fantasy setting. But they aren't, they aren't the same thing which defeats the purpose whether OC is a rip-off of Gate or not and you just showed examples that are far different to Gate to even apply as a rip-off, on your previous example you showed me earlier an example like ZnT that has similarity to Gate when it comes to traveling fantasy world and fight them using modern weapons but the military and diplomacy didn't existed in this then you showed me not-so modern military and super advanced military fighting fantasy creatures that somehow didn't have the previous similarities ZnT have, with OC you get both and a lot more similarities. We can get into argument all day while you still ignore the point I'm trying to show you.But now having read Gate a bit more, I think you need to stop your argument and focus on a stronger one. Or how about you properly address the points I've made earlier instead posting things like this? Dismissing the argument instead of addressing it doesn't help your case. And if you actually just recently read Gate and didn't read it while quoting me earlier then why did you accuse me that OC is not a rip-off of Gate when you didn't know in the first place what Gate is like?Gate is far more interesting than OC. I grant you that it is also older than OC and shouldn't be compared solely for that reason, but you should spend your time (after establishing that it is older) on how good the story is. It's not like I'm the one who started the whole Gate and OC comparison to begin with, I saw it on other threads and other forums who compares Gate with OC and not single one addressed that Gate was the one that came up of the original idea that has an otaku male lead working for the Japanese government that involves diplomacy in the fantasy world and not a single one stepped in and told them it's the other way around.As I said, the problem is not that this is original, rather you just haven't read enough. And what exactly this is suppose to mean? It seems like you're just directly attacking me instead of the points I've showed you earlier. |
| they are similar so it not bad to compare as long as they are not accusing it for a rip off i enjoyed outbreak comapny and im enjoying this one as well vangoz said: So let's just enjoy both. this |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
| Outbreak Company was every Otaku's fantasy. Whereas Gate provides a fantastical setting where character actions and reactions make sense. The only relation with Otaku Culture in this story is that the MC and some of his compatriots just happen to be interested in this sort of stuff. Personally, I found OC completely ridiculous and nonsensical, specifically in regards to how they promoted Otaku culture as the saving grace of Japan in the modern world. Always had a much higher respect for Gate and it's relatively more "real" perspective. If OC were a children's story, then Gate would be an actual Sci-Fi Fantasy Adult novel. That said, the comparison between the two ends with just the setting (gate between a modern world and a fantastical medieval world). The two are nothing alike. |
HESTIA   APPROVES |
| "Actual" and "Adult", love how that sounds to defend and love your favorite fiction. I'm not sure where that Sci-Fi came out though. There are kajillion of web novels with actual adult theme, if you didn't know that. But you have to shit on other works to prove your devotion, right? |
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
DawnJ said: "Actual" and "Adult", love how that sounds to defend and love your favorite fiction. I'm not sure where that Sci-Fi came out though. There are kajillion of web novels with actual adult theme, if you didn't know that. But you have to shit on other works to prove your devotion, right? Not exactly sure what your point is. All I'm saying is that the difference between the two stories is basically a children's story and an adult one. I haven't made comparisons to other web novels, so I don't understand why you even mention them. As for proving devotion, I can't say I have much to this series. I'm just pointing out the objective difference between the two anime in discussion. One is all about Otaku culture exchange, with nothing in regards to inter-world politics and conflicts. The other is exactly inter-world conflicts and politics, where Otaku and all of that is put in the backseat. Don't know why you sound so butthurt. Care to enlighten us all. |
HESTIA APPROVES |
| Aren't you a sneaky guy. They are all children's stories, unless you meant the protag is older in comparison. |
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
| Is there so much difference between political power-plays and schoolyard squabbling? OT: being first is a mark of high rank, and what one knows is always best. |
DawnJ said: Aren't you a sneaky guy. They are all children's stories, unless you meant the protag is older in comparison. Uh, no, I'm actually talking about the thematics in both shows. In Gate, there is war, slavery, rape, political maneuvering and pillaging. Not so for the other show, as they toned down everything to be essentially a pure otaku-fest, which essentially shows that it caters to a younger age group that doesn't have the experience or knowledge to enjoy a show with the above-mentioned thematics. That is why I likened OC to a kids story when compared to Gate. Now pray do tell what in my message has got your panties in a bunch, because I fail to see any reason. Edit: and pray do explain why I'm a sneaky guy? |
L-RyoshiJul 11, 2015 5:39 AM
HESTIA APPROVES |
| Sadly, they cater to the same age group, but with different tastes, just like every midnight anime, contrary to your own definition of adult's and children's. Isn't it laughable. You know what, Nanoha is the epitome of "adult" anime. Can you believe it? |
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
| I discovered OC before Gate, and I enjoy both. why are people arguing about this? they have different story at all, OC being otaku and shit. Gate is all about politics and military awesomeness. |
DawnJ said: Sadly, they cater to the same age group, but with different tastes, just like every midnight anime, contrary to your own definition of adult's and children's. Isn't it laughable. You know what, Nanoha is the epitome of "adult" anime. Can you believe it? Considering that Gate is labeled as 17+ and OC is PG-13, I find it hard to believe they were catering to the same age group as you so mention. But then again, to each his own. If you consider Shounen the same as Senien, it's not my jurisdiction to contradict your beliefs. Edit: And sadly, I have no experience with Nanoha, as the Mahou Shoujou genre doesn't interest me that much. |
L-RyoshiJul 11, 2015 6:32 AM
HESTIA APPROVES |
| Age ratings doesn't really matter except for movies where it deeply affects the sales. All genre fictions are for mid-schooler to 30s. And not-so-surprisingly, those tired adults prefer healing, SoL, adventure, mahou shoujo and/or idol genre. That's why Nanoha isn't dead yet and some random anime like Moretsu Pirates was a hit. Well, if you think some genres are more adult than others, so be it. |
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
DawnJ said: Age ratings doesn't really matter except for movies where it deeply affects the sales. All genre fictions are for mid-schooler to 30s. And not-so-surprisingly, those tired adults prefer healing, SoL, adventure, mahou shoujo and/or idol genre. That's why Nanoha isn't dead yet and some random anime like Moretsu Pirates was a hit. Well, if you think some genres are more adult than others, so be it. Gate was a webnovel that was later rewritten and sold as a "regular" novel before being republished as LN. OC was a LN from the beginning. Comparing them does not make much sense in the first place though, since OC is a rom-com, or even slice-of-life, with a few more serious elements, while Gate is a more serious story with a lot of lighthearted elements. It's like comparing a pear with an apple. They look similar but they taste completely different. I am not going to argue about what the "target age group" is. |
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| LN or regular, they all belong to genre fictions. There are many regular novels that you would've thought they were LN and adapted into animation. Also, that doesn't say anything about some genre is more mature. More to the point, who do you think are gonna collect books, super expensive BD (the main source of income of anime adaptations'), and hyper expensive figures? Some rich kids? The "paying" otakus, who are feeding the industry, are mostly adults. That's why I said age group doesn't really matter much. "Midnight anime", think about the term. |
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
| I don't care the stories are different |
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