Why do people not seem to like Asuna very much?

ComplexCRUSH said:
I'm actually in love with Asuna. Just because she can be a bad ass doesn't mean she's a bad character for falling in love and being vulnerable. I actually found Sugu to be annoying and unappealing most of the time. And I find the fact that people are using Sugu's body type as a comparable trait to Asuna's complexity to be pretty disgusting.

Smooched said:


You on drugs?

Smooched said:


You on drugs?

ComplexCRUSH said:
I joined this site to share my opinions, but I guess this is more of a "share my opinion or get out" kind of place. -_-

ComplexCRUSH said:
I joined this site to share my opinions, but I guess this is more of a "share my opinion or get out" kind of place. -_-

Amberleh said:
BOTH characters are bad. Asuna was fine until they decided to turn her into an object rather than a character. Suguha is an 'Otaku's wet dream' with her brother complex. And I don't care that they aren't technically related- They were RAISED AS SIBLINGS, it's still incest.

Both characters are prime examples of otaku-pandering objectification of women in anime.

Strong woman turned into a feeble girl who needs protecting and rescuing.

Girl with brother complex. People who like these traits should reflect on their expectations and standards.

It disgusts me that people find these traits attractive.

Amberleh said:
BOTH characters are bad. Asuna was fine until they decided to turn her into an object rather than a character. Suguha is an 'Otaku's wet dream' with her brother complex. And I don't care that they aren't technically related- They were RAISED AS SIBLINGS, it's still incest.

Both characters are prime examples of otaku-pandering objectification of women in anime.

Strong woman turned into a feeble girl who needs protecting and rescuing.

Girl with brother complex.

It disgusts me that people find these traits attractive.

Ghostony said:
Whoa whoa whoa whoa, hold up here..

That person you used as an example was definitly cherry picking his anime. Kirito is far from ugly or fat. That person was clearly deluded.

(Also in some places 16 is legal as long as there is a 5 year or less difference, but yes he was clearly sexist)

Amberleh said:
See, Fardale, this is part of my problem. BECAUSE of anime like this boys/men like yourself develop these unrealistic standards for women.

Allow me to present an example.

Unfortunately I can no longer find the image as I forgot to save it, but there was an ad- I assume on Craig's List or something- Of a 22 year old guy that wanted an Asian girlfriend. The guy was chubby, which in and of itself is not a problem- Love the person for who they are, not their body. The problems were that:

1. He wanted an Asian woman in an age range of 16-23. SIXTEEN. THE MAN IS 22.
2. He stated that Japanese culture is superior because he likes anime.
3. He said that the girl could weigh no more than 115 pounds and had to be cute. Note this man was very unnattractive and obviously believed someone should be loved for their personality, yet he is demanding to only have someone who is cute and tiny.
4. He asked for her to have a traditional ladies' education.

There were other things, but those were what stood out to me. To be honest, I was incredibly offended. The guy is an obvious sexist and I have a hunch that much of that came from his love of anime, because nearly all anime is sexist in its portrayal of women- Yes, even shoujo. Josei works and works by Miyazaki are some of the few exceptions.

Asuna not only became weak, but they used attempted rape to develop the character of that one creepy dude and give Kirito an excuse to almost kill him- In other words, Asuna's suffering became an object to make Kirito look cooler and that one guy look more evil. It didn't add anything to HER character. Doesn't this bother you at all?

Anime today tends to over-use rape and attempted rape. Both of these are powerful elements that should not be used in every story and should only be used if it actually ADDS SOMETHING to the story and isn't just there as fanservice or just there for 'darkness', as would be the case in Mirai Nikki and Elfen Lied. The rape in both of those series added NOTHING to the story and instead was offensive and laughable.

For an example of rape used properly in anime/manga, read the manga "Mars". Or, for classic literature, "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings".

Look, we all have shortcomings. I have plenty. But BECAUSE we all have shortcomings you can't decide on a 'type' of girl/guy you like and only go after that, and many anime fans do this- Many are unattractive, yet due to their love of anime and the way nerdy guys are portrayed as getting hot girls and harems, they think that they too deserve this and set their standards very high, thereby becoming the kind of person they hate. They won't give a girl who might be somewhat unattractive the time of day, yet this guy might be EVEN MORE unattractive than said girl and probably with a much crummier personality than hers.

YorozuyaGinSan said:


That was me you asshole.

Fardale said:
mmm true. and i would personally like the same but then this whole reality thing comes into play and self esteem doesnt help me either :P i get what ur saying and ur right. it doesnt enter the boundries reality allows and is extremely sexist. but hardcore anime fans i would say most and ofc don't speak for all but, we're looking for that escape and our perfect world which includes our perfect girl. now speaking personally. don't care what she looks like she has the personality i want to be with. but in a perfect world why can't she be cute too? although in a perfect world i'd be cute too and this whole conversation would be irrelevant ^^

I don't disagree with his opinion but i do disagree with him for trying to apply it to the real world. it doesnt fit and thats the depressing thing.

as for the rape mechanic. it isnt pretty no, but trying to stick with the post topic here ... :P what he did to asuna was merely to make you hate him. and it worked -.- twisted bastard! HANDS OF ASUNA OR I KEEL YOU! overall yes it could do with less of it ^^; but i think its a real problem in japan and quite a large part of their culture atm. ofc they're more open about these things... and as for the age, here in the uk its 16+ flat (unless your a part of the lives ie, teacher/doctor/socialworkder/gaurdian etc etc)

HANDS OF ASUNA OR I KEEL YOU!

Nidhoeggr said:
And while I don't think that rape is a big problem in Japan, the latent sexism is present and shows itself in their media output.

bNq said:



Unlike in several other well developed countries.

bNq said:


Now, would you like to guess which country comes out on top of both of these? Hint: They're not producing a lot of cartoons, or at least, not as many as Japan.

Nidhoeggr said:


Getting into the details of that would defeat the purpose of the thread, but yeah: There are interesting observations to make.

And I like a damsel in distress when the trope is executed in a good way - just like every trope depends on the execution. The problem with SAO is that it gets way too much credit for such an terrible execution. it shows, just like with Guilty Crown, that the standards are really, REALLY low and that has an effect on the industry. If some of the SAO fanboys are really such great anime fans they should be more aware of the fact what this series represents.

bNq said:
I was curious why this thread was up all the time in the ticker, especially since I think Asuna is quite popular overall....
.... uneducated feminazi shitting up the thread. Oh well, mystery solved.

I won't bother with most of what you wrote, because the few sentences I read already wasted enough of my time. Just one quick thing, Japan has one of the lowest rape rates worldwide, same for their teenage pregancy rates.

Now, would you like to guess which country comes out on top of both of these? Hint: They're not producing a lot of cartoons, or at least, not as many as Japan.

Fardale said:

Unless they're reality escape #1 and anime lover #2 PRIORITIES MAN! PRIORITIES! why over analyse the beauty that is SAO? :(

PoisonedTea said:
I am indifferent but Asuna is well written character
Strong and Smart.

PoisonedTea said:
People don't like Asuna? when did this happen?

People love Asuna!

I am indifferent but Asuna is well written character
Strong and Smart.

Nidhoeggr said:

If a single second of thinking is enough to come up with severe plotholes then I have problems accepting the "beauty" of this series at least on the writing side. Sadly, this isn't the case for a lot of people here so someone has to focus their attention on it. And given the fact that MAL is for rating and comparing series I don't see any reason against this practice. Actually, it should be encouraged.

Fardale said:


I suppose. but most anime is full of plotholes and things that make us go "WHY DID YOU DO THAT?!"

Fardale said:
tbf i agree the ending wasnt brilliant overall or for asuna in the virtual helm. but i did love the characters, plot and the setting ever so much. just because the plot didnt work out in places doesnt mean fanboys arnt right to love it.

...i'm going to bed b4 i start anymore off topic wars ^^

Fardale said:
u can beat me at being clever but u kno u can't end an arguement with a fanboy -.-

bNq said:
I certainly will not read the whole article, as I'm already familiar with most of the facts and I know for a fact, tht what you said earlier is simply bullshit. I'm just puzzled yet as to whether you trolled, or are actually this stupid.
If I actually would have been wrong, you would've quoted an important part of the article which makes your point or something. You chose not to, because you realized you can't find something to support your claim.

>Children at the age of 13 are not fully developed mentally and therefore should not be allowed or put in a position where they can consent to something like sex with an adult. It is incredibly damaging to the child.
That's a discusssion for another thread. I'll just give you so much, why is it ok with 16, but not with 13? Is it ok with 15? How about 14 then? These baselines you made up were random and simply influenced by the way you were raised.

>Are you aware of the fact that many people do not report rape?
Of course, there will always be a dark number we don't know about. Again, this isn't a japan only thing though, it's just the same for the US or every other goddamn country.

>I'd also like to point out that during this exchange I have remained civil
You're such a good person! I only called you an uneducated feminazi if I'm seeing this right, nothing else. I don't see what's wrong about that, if you wish, I can elaborate. I'm cursing here and there, yes, but you only whine about this now because you realized how full of shit every single one of your posts were and that you can't actually bring anything else to the table.

I mean, just going back a site, you being offended by the type of girl some random creep is seeking for on craigslist? You couldn't be more of a feminazi.

Nidhoeggr said:


If a single second of thinking is enough to come up with severe plotholes then I have problems accepting the "beauty" of this series at least on the writing side. Sadly, this isn't the case for a lot of people here so someone has to focus their attention on it. And given the fact that MAL is for rating and comparing series I don't see any reason against this practice. Actually, it should be encouraged.



Too bad the "strong and smart" aspects are thrown out of the window, thereby destroying your argument of a well-written character.

whatever123456 said:


What exactly are these severe plotholes you are talking about? The only thing that wasn't explicitely explained was Asuna overcoming paralysis.
By the way, plotholes don't make a movie/anime shit, several of the movies considered masterpieces or good have plotholes.

Amberleh said:


SAO has more than just plotholes contributing to it's slew of problems. But allow me to point out a few plotholes/inconsistancies.

1. Kayaba. He is a MASS MURDERER. Had he not died and if Japan had the death penalty, he would be executed. Yet in the show Kirito has RESPECT for him. RESPECT FOR A MASS MURDERER because he "didn't run away". Seriously? Is the guy trying to allude that he had respect for Hitler? Because guess what- Kayaba did something incredibly similar to what Hitler did.

2. Asuna. Asuna is initially portrayed as someone strong- She tells Kirito "We can protect eachother", which is a GREAT quote. Yet by the end she says "Save me Kirito!" and "I knew you would rescue me!" She also lets him fight her battles for her, as with the Knights of the Blood Oath.

3. Kayaba again. They never explain his motivations- It's just "Lol because he felt like it". He even says himself "I don't remember why anymore." You know what that is? LAZY WRITING.

4. Both MMOs did not accurately ever explain the rules within their worlds. They explained them briefly, and even the rules laid out in those brief explanations were broken on several occassions. The author did not bother to write down his own game rules, which should be the VERY FIRST THING you do when writing a story about a game. In fact that's just common sense- Most shounen series do this, even Naruto, One Piece, and Fairy Tail lay out the rules of their worlds and try to stick to them.

5. How the hell did Kirito beat the most powerful player in the game in Alfheim? I have played MMOs. I played WoW for 7 years. Sorry, but a level 40 in terrible gear can't beat a level 85 in full epics. It is physically impossible, no matter how much skill as a player the level 40 may have.

6. Sugu, when Kirito casts his illusionary beast magic specifically states "That is only an illusion, it does not increase your power at all" yet somehow Kirito makes it real? Come ON. They didn't even try to give us a BS explanation.

7. WHAT KIND OF GOVERNMENT WOULD ALLOW A COMPANY TO STRAIGHT-UP BUILD ANOTHER GAME RIGHT ON TOP OF A GAME THAT MURDERED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE? In fact, what kind of government would continue to allow the use of the head gear? Not one that would ever exist in reality. He could have TRIED to make it even a LITTLE more believable.

8. Tentacle monster 'players'. They were actual people playing those characters, in a game where the only avatars you can choose are elves and cat people. Ummmmmmmmmm... No. I don't care if they are GMs, it made no sense whatsoever within the context of the game. Pretty much he just wanted to write some almost-tentacle-rape, that's what it comes down to.

9. They state over, and over, and over, that there is a time limit on their wings in Alfheim. Yet time and time again, they reach the barrier where their wings should run out, and they just float there for a while with their wings still 100% functional. And not JUST our over-powered Gary Stu known as Kirito- Sugu does it as well.

10. Remember when Kirito came out of his coma, how skinny and scraggly he looked? Yet Asuna remains perfect. She didn't lose any weight despite the fact that she hasn't been eating for two years and has only had an IV. I can buy that her hair and all that is still perfect because she has a doting father and that creepoid always caring for her.

11. The creepoid being in love with Asuna. She would have been 13 or 14 or something when she last spoke to him, right? Right. Yeah, sorry. Not buying it.

12. Kirito states he loves Asuna, yet says to his sister "I don't know how I feel about you", thereby continuing to lead her on. Then they have their magical incest dancing moment in the sky- more leading her on, despite saying he is loyal to Asuna? Eerm.

There's more, many more, but I think you get my point. SAO is FULL of plot holes and inconsistencies.