Marina or Shizuka

the last think this anime wants us to do is talking sides I think

I wanted to also compare the ai judgment on this and thought it was quite interesting

Saying this for the 20th time but I think picking sides is not the point the anime wants to make at all, so I’m never gonna do it.
Azuma literally said to Takopi in the last episode “bro a person can be both good and bad what are you talking about”, if that flew over so many people’s head I don’t know what else to say.

@Julitku39 Pretty much this. If after six episodes, this is what you're coming back to, there's the possibility you've missed something.

meh that's all irrelevant, they're both gray even in the og timeline

you forgot one of the core theme, them mimicking their parents, Marina mimicks the violence, Shizuka mimicks the manipulation, switch their parents or scenarios and situations and it would be the same but with Shizuka as your answer

@gupipy I think you’ve been gaslit and had your common sense taken away. No one’s perfect but that doesn’t mean everyone is equally imperfect. Some are way worse than others. You definitely can pick between a serial killer vs the average joe. I’m not talking about Marina and Shizuka btw. Just in general.

@Haunt88 I think you missed the whole point of my discussion. Saying that "switch their parents or scenarios and situations and it would be the same but with Shizuka as your answer" is not correct answer, especially in legal system. Imagine, a guy kills another guy, but judge says "I am sorry for you, if you switched your environment, you wouldn't have done this. Therefore I shall not sentence you.", this would be embarassing for having such judge.

I am not denying that Shizuka COULD have done the same as Marina. But there is reason why I chose OG timeline, because it is closest to reality. And in such reality, Marina was the child (because of domestic violence) who bullied, used violence and Shizuka was the one who use manipulative seduction. We can completely replace the names with A and B. But the answer for me is still the same, A despite being domestically abused, caused/initiated pain to others. Because A is of child age, therefore should not be held accountable for this. However, if any person of adult age did the same thing, it should be inexcusable and should be held accountable, EVEN regarding the environment. That is why the legal system is established in such way.

Now you saying the children are mimicking their parents is half true. Yes, parents are to blame for the most and has big influence on kids. But you are implying like the children are complete copy of their parents, which I disagree. Because this is completely disregarding the individuality of the characters shown in the anime. Shizuka despite mimicking her mom's manipulative side, still chose to treasure and love the doggo. In Takopi's timeline (although I said to keep within OG timeline), she is seen to be capable of violence. Both of these traits, establishes her individualism and not copied from her mom. The same applies for other characters. So back to my original statement, that Shizuka COULD have done the same thing as Marina, but also has probability of not doing the same as Marina. It all depends on the core nature vs nurture of the person. A person's response to domestic abuse, can be two folds, one is to repeat the cycle (NURTURE), one is to stop cycle (NATURE). So all in all, yes, IF ANYONE DID the same thing as Marina, and they are of adult age, they SHOULD be held accountable, it is just an unfortunate case that Nurture won, but the sentencing should be still done.

@Koloro122 your point is moot and you're strawmaning

like @/omarnewgate24 said above, you're fixating on og timeline to strawman, in the 2nd timeline we got takopii as her personal therapist with so many do overs with the last one as an unintentional success, shizuka finally let it all out

also, you claim Marina killing her mom was homicide lol, that was clear as day self defense

@Haunt88 The reason why I am fixated on 1st timeline, was because it is closest to reality. There was no takopi at all until the Marina became high schooler. And you do know that the start of this strawman was because of your baseless and unsupported claim that if Shizuka and Marina switched places, it would be same. This kind of claim invokes the philosophical question of nature and nurture. Which is then upto the interpretation of the audience.

What Marina did, is something between manslaughter and self defense. At that point, both people were unstable as fuck. No matter the decision, sentencing her is still the correct decision. Don't misunderstand, I don't mean like sentence like JAIL or shit like that. Morelike, sentence for rehabilitation and maybe temporary isolation. As we see, her mind is at the peak of extreme instability. Right after, killing her mom, she said among lines "I wish I could have killed already/back that day." No matter what drug you coping, this is clear as day as very dangerous thought and along with suicide, both are harmful acts. If she wasn't able to commit suicide, I bet my whole mortgage and family investments, that she gonna kill Shizuka, combined with her violent past. Don't call me biased, I know just as Shizuka is capable being violent, Marina also is capable of being kind and nice. But, in the first og timeline (CLOSEST TO THE REALITY), she definitely needs more help.