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| THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER. ---------------------------------------- Ahahaha! What a pathetic death for Sangwoo. Killed by a senile old lady... I love it. Such a perfect ending. |
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enopg said: LOL. When you really think about it, it gets more hilarious. A Serial Killer who wasn't caught for years gets killed by an old lady. Not by Seungbae. Not by the Police. But by an senile old lady. I at first disliked it because of how easily he got away with his crimes, but when I think about it, that has to be the most pathetic death ever lmaoo. Yeah, and also how he actually survived getting locked in a burning house for a while... only to end like this. And that grandma doesn't even know what she did, or who he was... I'm a bit sad that Yoonbum never got proper closure, but Sangwoo's hilarious death makes up for it. |
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| Well, that's one way to end your series I guess. Legit was an engrossing trainwreck, I loved it. |
  โก Harder Daddy โก |
CandyRat said: Ahahaha! What a pathetic death for Sangwoo. Killed by a senile old lady... I love it. Such a perfect ending. Shit ending, that old lady thing was the last nail on the coffin. Bum just happening to walk next to her at the same time she was confessing a murder? The hospital room of a conscious serial killer being unlocked? Jesus, almost as stupid as Bum getting handed the ashes. The author actually said she wanted to let people know Sangwoo loved Bum, which is conveyed through the old lady saying Sangwoo wouldn't shut up calling Bum. But the delivery of this was pathetic. All the author had to do was let Bum find the picture of the amusement park somewhere else in the house when he went back at the end, which would've given Bum's death a better execution because he promised to die if Sangwoo died first. There were quite frankly several ways to convey Sangwoo's feelings for Bum without resorting to the old lady twist which has to be one of the stupidest things I've read. Sangwoo was supposed to have "the most painful death". Being burned to death was already basic but the author went out of her way to make it garbage. |
RojasebApr 15, 2021 3:06 AM
enopg said: The Author never said that though? They actually said in their notes which came out just after the last chapter, that he saw Bum as a replacement of his mom since the very beginning, as well as that Sangwoo is hetero, hell, the Author made Sangwoo say a few homophobic comments during story, like when he assumed that Bum is self harming because his father is beating him due to his "homo tendency" or when he killed the man he picked up from a gay bar while calling him a "f*cking homo". So if your Abuser and Rapist says your name before they die, does that mean that they loved you? I don't think that the Author was trying to imply anything with this because you know when else he was calling Bum's name? When Seungbae brought him to the police station. You know how that ended up? With Sangwoo beating and raping Bum. Before Sangwoo died, he was literally beating Bum up and trying to stab him to death. Even when Seungbae brought Bum out of the house, Sangwoo planned to kill Bum as well. And now with Sangwoo having almost died due to the fire, he was in a state where he couldn't abuse or kill anyone anymore, so if Bum would have gotten there in time, Sangwoo would have blamed him for everything, like always. Rojaseb said: All the author had to do was let Bum find the picture of the amusement park somewhere else in the house when he went back at the end I am pretty sure that Bum realized in the hospital that Sangwoo let go off the picture and that Sangwoo was just lying to him that he had it. The Author specifically made Bum search for the picture after the uncle's death, but Bum couldn't find it, then Bum asked Sangwoo if he had it and he said yes but didn't say where when Bum asked him where it is. In the hospital, Bum forgot how Sangwoo looked like due to all the trauma that Sangwoo put him through and then there was the panel where Bum realized that Sangwoo did indeed let go off the picture. I think Sangwoo's death being pathetic may not be the physical karma that he deserves (Because he deserved a much more painful death), but it is still a very pathetic death. The criminal who was a Domestic Abuser, Rapist and Serial Killer and hasn't been caught for years, gets killed by an old lady. Not by Seungbae who was after him the whole time, and nor by the police. But by an senile old lady. Can't get more pathetic than that. So your answer is a bit long and I didn't care to read it all but the author did say Sangwoo loves Bum in the Q&A after the final episode. One question was what did Sangwoo felt for Bum and she answered saying "I believe you'll know the answer if you pay attention to the final chapter" and Sangwoo is only alive in the final chapter to call out Bum's name nonstop so there you go Also the author constantly reposted love fanarts between the two in her Twitter lmao |
| this gave me trauma |
Darknya said: I wanted bum and sangwoo to be together ;-; I got sad when sangwoo died ;-; old bitch, killed sangwoo, meh, sex with ashes Why would you want Bum to be together with his homophobic Abuser and Rapist who never loved him? Why were you sad when Sangwoo died when he was beating Bum up and tried to murder Bum seconds before that? Why are you hating on a grandma for accidentally killing Sangwoo (someone who abused, raped and killed people for years)? And "sex with ashes"? What? I know you're male but you DO realize that Sangwoo is homophobic, right?  Oh well, Sangwoo fans never fail to surprise me with their Rape Culture Mentality. |
enopgJun 7, 2021 8:21 PM
enopg said: The cop Seungbae was definitely a winner, but Sangwoo's mom? She got abused in her childhood, abused by her husband, and then turned crazy and killed herself after trying to kill Sangwoo, and all of that because her husband was somehow blind enough to no realize that his wife was mentally ill. She was no winner. Yes, Sangwoo died, but that's because karma hit him after everything he did for all those years. Not to mention, Sangwoo's death was nowhere as painful as it should have been, he actually got away with what he did quite easy, so did Yoon Bum's Uncle. Yoon Bum's Uncle abused and raped Bum for years, and he then only got killed with a hammer by Sangwoo, whereas Sangwoo kidnapped women and beat, tortured, raped, mutiltated, and killed them. He did that for years, he probably had over 30 victims, he also killed the man from the gay bar who had a wife and child, and he let a mother and her child die. So after everything he did, causing so much pain to everyone in the story, torturing and molesting women for days after breaking their legs, and then killing them in a brutal manner, Sangwoo got away with what he did quite easily considering he only got accidentally suffocated by some random grandma. You know who I would consider as the winners? Sangwoo (reasons above, he got away with his abuse, serial rape, and serial killings on others quite easily), Yoon Bum's Grandma (She lied to Bum and let the uncle keep on raping Bum, didn't she? So she got away with that without ever facing karma), and that one superior in the army who raped and sexually abused Bum (Because he also never received karma for what he did to Bum) I apologize in advance if I came off as rude it's just that I really don't understand how someone could feel pity towards an serial rapist and serial killer after everything the author was trying to tell us; that the sad childhood of an abuser, rapist, or serial killer is an explanation and not an excuse nor there to cause pity. I understand you have some strong emotions, but I believe you're getting a bit carried away there. At no point were we given any information that so much as hinted at Sangwoo having murdered "over 30 victims" nor him raping/molesting any of the women or their bodies. While I agree that Sangwoo was a shitty person, I don't think it's necessary to inflate the numbers to get to that conclusion. I'm pretty sure the ones we saw him kill, were the only ones he did kill. At least during the time he knew Bum, he definitely didn't kill anyone else (or Bum would have mentioned that to the police in the end), but even before that, I have my doubts that he was doing one kidnapping per week. Remember, he only started murdering women AFTER he killed his mother, and that wasn't too long prior to the beginning of the story. Also, based on what we saw, he mostly killed girls who were hitting on him, so he probably didn't encounter any potential victims during the time he spent in the army. Nor do I find it likely that there would have been THAT many girls who would hit on him, both from the perspective of that just being unrealistic, and also because someone would have made the connection if literally 30 girls disappeared after attempting to flirt with him. I also don't think he raped/molested anyone other than Bum. I have several reasons for thinking this. 1. He tells Bum at one point that he is no rapist. - Ironic, I know, and we could just discount it as another lie with no deeper meaning, since he is a psychopath after all. But I believe it stems from him misunderstanding what consent even is, and he truly did believe that he was no rapist. (And his upbringing would make it pretty obvious why he lacks a healthy understanding of this concept.) He thinks that Bum's confession of "love" is equivalent to all-encompassing consent, even if he's "being coy" in later scenarios. 2. At no point did his actions ever seem driven by sex drive. He didn't rape Bum because he was horny; he raped him as a means of emotional manipulation. His lack of sexual desire went so far that he literally threw up after giving Bum a blowjob. That makes it unlikely that he'd have any interest in doing the same to the women, since he never formed a relationship with them where emotional manipulation would come into play. (Remember how long it took him before the first time he did anything sexual with Bum? It was a completely new idea to him at the time.) I think he considered it a necessity (like a chore) he had to do in order to control Bum, not something he did for enjoyment. 3. As for molesting the victim's corpses, he'd have even less reason to do that, and he certainly never showed any such inclinations during the times we did see him having access to dead bodies. Heck, considering how easily he gets grossed out, I really don't see it. Don't get me wrong, he is a terrible person who deserved a painful death. I just don't think it makes a difference how many people he actually hurt. Killing/raping even one person would be enough to earn the fate he had. Out of curiosity though, since you think getting burned alive, having his worst fears "confirmed," and then being suffocated wasn't a gruesome enough death for him... what kind of fate would you consider gruesome enough to pay for all the things he did? What he got seems to me like the worst possible thing that could have happened. Or are you implying that he would have suffered more if he'd gone to jail? Because if so, I'd very much disagree that a jail cell is worse than being killed while he was mentally at his lowest. It's not like he'd have sat in jail and suddenly been overcome by guilt; he's not that type of person. He'd have sat on his prison mattress while brooding over how to get revenge on (Bum) the person who betrayed him. Meanwhile, Bum would have been left without that closure of knowing Sangwoo is gone from his life for good. I find this to be a pretty "happy ending." ...Or at least, the happiest we could possibly get, given the circumstances. |
CandyRatAug 19, 2022 6:18 PM
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enopg said: Strong emotions? It's the exact opposite, I'm using common sense and you obviously come up with excuses since the Abuser, Serial Rapist, and Serial Killer is your beloved favorite character. I've met Apologists like you (who deny that he did what he did, try to tell me that his death was somehow painful enough, or that all of those women approached him) countless of times so I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously when it comes to this topic. Yeah, see, this is what I mean by "strong emotions." Emotions so strong, that you call anyone an "apologist" who doesn't agree 100% with what you said. Even if they agree with you that he deserved to suffer in the worst way possible; our only disagreement is in the details. Trust me, I thought the same thing as you when I first finished the series. It was simply more fun to hate him for murdering and raping countless women. I tried going over the story again to remind myself of all the awful things he did, and found remarkably few allusions to those "countless women" I'd assumed he'd raped/killed. enopg said: CandyRat said: At least during the time he knew Bum, he definitely didn't kill anyone else (or Bum would have mentioned that to the police in the end) Also wrong. Even when Bum was there, Sangwoo killed the CEO Daughter, a woman off-screen in chapter 5, the man from the gay bar, Jieun (at least planned and caused her death), a mother and her child, Bum's uncle, and Officer Park. So add those to the previous victims, and you easily got over 30 victims. Being emotional can affect reading comprehension, so I won't accuse you of strawmanning here.(Though if you'd taken a moment to think about it, you should have realized that it makes no sense for me to be denying the murders we were specifically told about in the narrative.) By "anyone else" I was referring to him not killing anyone OTHER than those people we see him kill (the people you listed). I didn't feel like writing a whole list of all his murders, so I just chose the shorter wording. enopg said: 1)Bum saw Sangwoo with a different girl every week or month, and Bum then found their clothes in Sangwoo's washing machine, meaning that Sangwoo killed all of them, and considering that he has been doing that for years, his kill count has to be over 30. You honestly expect me to believe that he was storing 6 years worth of murdered-girl-clothes in his washing machine? Don't you find it a bit more likely that it was part of Bum's hallucination? (since, you know, he was already hallucinating in that scene anyway?) In your headcannon, was Sangwoo just not washing his own laundry, or something? Additionally, as I said, I'm pretty sure someone would have noticed the pattern if EVERY girl Sangwoo dated mysteriously disappeared after a week or two. Police in this manga being "stupid" is not an excuse. They gave him the benefit of the doubt because they had a personal relationship with him, and that tends to cloud people's judgement. There's a limit to how much people will ignore when they like someone, and Sangwoo had not crossed that limit. Even investigating the ONE murdered girl we saw them investigate, they got pretty close to figuring it out. If that had happened 30 times, surely one of those times would have ended with him in jail. Most likely, most of those relationships ended in a normal way. His "murder mode" only activated if something triggered him. I'd guesstimate he killed maybe 5 people that weren't specifically mentioned in the story. (Which still makes him a serial killing monster, which is why I'm saying the exact number doesn't matter: The conclusion is the same.) As for raping other people, we absolutely did NOT see any evidence of him raping the CEO daughter. We only see him chaining her in the basement for "safekeeping" until he can get around to chopping her up and making the corpse disappear. We see evidence that he beat her, but no evidence that he treated her any differently than his original plan was for Bum. (Again, his treatment of Bum only changed course when Bum said "I love you" which I highly doubt the girl would have said.) Remember, he also kept Bum naked right from the beginning, but that doesn't mean he had intentions of raping him. He simply did it for convenience. You said the rape wasn't about emotional manipulation, it was about power... as if those two things were different?? Are you talking about super powers or what? No, it was about the FEELING of being powerful while making the victim feel powerless. Those are emotions right there. In Bum's case, in addition to that, it was also about making Bum feel like they're in a relationship. (Which unfortunately works, because Bum also doesn't understand how healthy relationships are supposed to work.) I agree with you that it would be nice for someone to come along and actively torture him, while keeping him just barely alive so he can suffer longer. However, within the confines of the story, that just wasn't going to happen, because as you said yourself, none of the other characters would do such a thing. So what happened to him instead, was the best we could have gotten. I think you're overestimating how bad prison actually is as a punishment. The amount of suffering would have been minimal compared to what he got. Worst case scenario, he could even have found new victims in jail. Remember, Sangwoo was physically strong, so there's a good chance he wouldn't be the one getting beaten up. Plus, if he was still alive, a part of Bum would probably have lived the rest of his life waiting for him to be released. (And no, I don't buy into the dumb theory that Bum died at the end. I don't even consider it a possibility. But I've already explained to multiple people why, so I'm tired of talking about it at this point. All I can say is, there's no point in making an already dark story even darker with far-fetched conjectures.) |
CandyRatAug 2, 2021 6:25 AM
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CandyRat said: Yeah, see, this is what I mean by "strong emotions." Emotions so strong, that you call anyone an "apologist" who doesn't agree 100% with what you said. I told you that I'm using common sense, I'm not emotionally invested in this at all, I didn't call you an apologist to insult you, a apologist is someone who denies the actions/crimes of someone, and that's what you were doing, denying that he killed that many women and denying that he molested corpses, even though he did both. CandyRat said: Trust me, I thought the same thing as you when I first finished the series. It was simply more fun to hate him for murdering and raping countless women. I tried going over the story again to remind myself of all the awful things he did, and found remarkably few allusions to those "countless women" I'd assumed he'd raped/killed. You mean just like how it's simply more fun to hate Bum's Uncle for abusing and raping Bum? If you stopped hating Sangwoo because you started telling yourself that he didn't abuse and kill as many women as you believed (even though he did), then you couldn't be more wrong, and if you hate Bum's Uncle for abusing and raping Bum, then I'm confused cause Sangwoo is worse than him. And you're telling me that you went over the story again, but then got the part about him throwing up wrong? If you really read it again, you'd know about all those woman clothes in Sangwoo's washing machine, so you can't seriously tell me that he "didn't torture and kill as many women as I believed", when he probably tortured and killed more women than what even I believe (I believe it's over 30, given what we were shown and what was implied, but if you really think about it, it might be even higher than that because those women clothes in the washing machine alone already speak for 30 victims, and when you consider that he keeps getting rid of their clothes every month and killed women for years, he had MUCH more victims that any of us could ever imagine.) CandyRat said: Being emotional can affect reading comprehension, so I won't accuse you of strawmanning here.(Though if you'd taken a moment to think about it, you should have realized that it makes no sense for me to be denying the murders we were specifically told about in the narrative.) By "anyone else" I was referring to him not killing anyone OTHER than those people we see him kill (the people you listed). I didn't feel like writing a whole list of all his murders, so I just chose the shorter wording. You told me that the ones we saw him kill, were the only ones he did kill, even though that's wrong cause he tortured and killed people for years before the story started. That's what I meant. And while we didn't see it, he DID kill a woman off-screen, like I told you, where Bum woke up to her screaming. CandyRat said: You honestly expect me to believe that he was storing 6 years worth of murdered-girl-clothes in his washing machine? Don't you find it a bit more likely that it was part of Bum's hallucination? (since, you know, he was already hallucinating in that scene anyway?) In your headcannon, was Sangwoo just not washing his own laundry, or something? Who said that those are the clothes of all of his victims that he ever had? He obviously gets rid of their clothes every week or month, like a routine. And seriously, his own laundry? You're trying to tell me those are his clothes? Those are dozens of women clothes, and each of them belonged to a different, murdered girl. Even what the CEO Daughter wore, is there. (nudity warning) So you can start counting those clothes and if you multiply them like a hundred times considering that he keeps getting rid of the clothes of his victims and killed people for years, you'd realize that he EASILY had over 30 victims. CandyRat said: Additionally, as I said, I'm pretty sure someone would have noticed the pattern if EVERY girl Sangwoo dated mysteriously disappeared after a week or two. Assuming that everyone is aware that Sangwoo was dating them? Did you not see how long it took for ONE cop to find out that Jiuen died because of Sangwoo? It took them almost 50 chapters to find out and the only reason they found out was because of Seungbae and the friends of Jiuen who knew Sangwoo. Take those two things away, and you got a serial killer who can easily get away with serial killings for years. CandyRat said: Police in this manga being "stupid" is not an excuse. It kind of is. CandyRat said: They gave him the benefit of the doubt because they had a personal relationship with him, and that tends to cloud people's judgement. The only one who had a personal relationship with him was Officer Park. The others were just straight up stupid and believed Sangwoo's lies more than Seungbae's evidences. CandyRat said: There's a limit to how much people will ignore when they like someone, and Sangwoo had not crossed that limit. Even investigating the ONE murdered girl we saw them investigate, they got pretty close to figuring it out. If that had happened 30 times, surely one of those times would have ended with him in jail. If it took them almost 50 chapters to find out that he was behind Jieun's death and the only reason they found out about it was because of Seungbae and the friends of Jiuen who knew Sangwoo, then it's no wonder that they never found out about Sangwoo being behind all those murders of the disappearing girls. Seriously, stuf like this happend in real life where something seems so obvious, but the police took years to find the murderer even though he was always right under their nose. CandyRat said: Most likely, most of those relationships ended in a normal way. His "murder mode" only activated if something triggered him. I'd guesstimate he killed maybe 5 people that weren't specifically mentioned in the story. That's exactly why I called you an apologist. 1)We know due to Bum that all those women that Sangwoo was with, disappeared, and Bum then found MANY women clothes in Sangwoo's washing, where that already tells that his kill count is way over 5. 2)Sangwoo: 3.Unless all those women who disappeared chose to go to another country, Sangwoo killed every single one of them. There's no "murder mode" or him having to be triggered to kill people. He does it casually and enjoys it. He killed a man who had a wife and child just out of fun, and even in public, he wishes to kill random women in a brutal manner. 4)Again, him mutilating all of his corpses, him being specialized in it as seen when he had the tools to mutilate Bum's uncle, him generally having many torture tools in his basement, and you genuinely think he only killed 5 before the story? Oh god. CandyRat said: (Which still makes him a serial killing monster, which is why I'm saying the exact number doesn't matter: The conclusion is the same.) You say that, but told me before "Trust me, I thought the same thing as you when I first finished the series. It was simply more fun to hate him for murdering and raping countless women. I tried going over the story again to remind myself of all the awful things he did, and found remarkably few allusions to those "countless women" I'd assumed he'd raped/killed." So it clearly matters to you if the kill count is 5, or 30. CandyRat said: As for raping other people, we absolutely did NOT see any evidence of him raping the CEO daughter. We only see him chaining her in the basement for "safekeeping" until he can get around to chopping her up and making the corpse disappear. We see evidence that he beat her, but no evidence that he treated her any differently than his original plan was for Bum. (Again, his treatment of Bum only changed course when Bum said "I love you" which I highly doubt the girl would have said.) Remember, he also kept Bum naked right from the beginning, but that doesn't mean he had intentions of raping him. He simply did it for convenience. He molested her corpse. (nudity warning) He chained her in the basement to beat and torture her for days before killing her, not just for "safekeeping". Also, it's not like she could run away after he broke her legs. Also, it doesn't have to be outright shown to us, for us to know that he raped his other victims as well. It's a simple question of "Why wouldn't he, when he already did so?" For example, we saw that Bum's uncle raped Bum twice and although the other times weren't shown to us, we KNOW that he was raped by him more than just that, he was raped by him for years cause he had to live under his roof for years. The simple proof of that is again, "why wouldn't he?" If Sangwoo gets away with beating, torturing, and killing women, has no problem with molesting their corpses, and also verbally abusing and raping Bum, WHY do you think that he didn't rape his other victims too? CandyRat said: You said the rape wasn't about emotional manipulation, it was about power... as if those two things were different?? Are you talking about super powers or what? No, it was about the FEELING of being powerful while making the victim feel powerless. Those are emotions right there. In Bum's case, in addition to that, it was also about making Bum feel like they're in a relationship. (Which unfortunately works, because Bum also doesn't understand how healthy relationships are supposed to work.) What are you talking about? There's a difference between emotional manipulation and power. Rapists don't intend to emotionally manipulate the one who they rape, they rape them to feel powerful, that why, like I said, rape is about power. Also, it was never said or implied that he raped Bum to make him feel like they're in a relationship. Because if that's the case, he wouldn't have slapped and beat Bum up before he raped him. He only raped him for power, like any other Rapist does. Seungbae punched Seungbae before, so Sangwoo took it out on Bum. CandyRat said: I think you're overestimating how bad prison actually is as a punishment. The amount of suffering would have been minimal compared to what he got. Worst case scenario, he could even have found new victims in jail. Remember, Sangwoo was physically strong, so there's a good chance he wouldn't be the one getting beaten up. Not really. Many criminals in real life (mostly woman beaters, rapists, or pedos) get killed in prison. He definitely wouldn't have found new victims in jail, if they knew what he did, they would have given him a test of his own medicine, beat him up, and make him drop the soap. He's not some martial artist and he already had problems with just 1 person, so imagine if 5 guys ganged up on him. CandyRat said: Plus, if he was still alive, a part of Bum would probably have lived the rest of his life waiting for him to be released. (And no, I don't buy into the dumb theory that Bum died at the end. I don't even consider it a possibility. But I've already explained to multiple people why, so I'm tired of talking about it at this point. All I can say is, there's no point in making an already dark story even darker with far-fetched conjectures.) I don't think so. Bum intended to go on with his life in the end, he just wanted to give Sangwoo the ring, and go on. So if his BPD and Stockholm Syndrome got treated and he realized the amount of abuse Sangwoo did to him, he would've gotten back to his old self, be scared of Sangwoo, and wouldn't want to be ever around him again. Bum preferred even his uncle over Sangwoo in the beginning, so I don't think any part of his would want to see Sangwoo after everything he did to him. I'm not sure if Bum died or not, but that's not what I was trying to get at. I'm surprised that you don't think it's a possibility that he may have died though because most of the people I met, believe that he died, but I'm indifferent about it. This is kinda off-topic but since you don't believe that his kill count is over 30, can I remind you of Ted Bundy? "Ted Bundy was a serial killer who kidnapped, raped, and murdered numerous young women and girls during the 1970s and possibly earlier. After more than a decade of denials, he confessed to 30 homicides, committed in seven states between 1974 and 1978. His true victim total is unknown, and could be much higher." Ted Bundy killed like over 30 women during 4 years. Sangwoo had 6 years to kill women, so I don't see why you think it's unlikely for his kill count to be that high despite all the evidence I gave you, the woman clothes in his washing machine, the disappearing girls, and himself stating that he mutilated and killed many people before Bum came. |
enopgAug 2, 2021 10:38 AM
_Sirius_ said: There seems to be a major misunderstanding that I actually supported Sangwoo's character? I would just like to clear up that I in no way think that what Sangwoo did is correct or forgivable. I never said or implied that you support his character. All I did, is ask a question. _Sirius_ said: Maybe my wording what a little unclear but I only thought that it was a pity he became the way he did since he seemed like sweet child prior Didn't he call his mom a filthy wretch after she protected him, and then also ignored her screaming for help when her husband locked her in the basement for days after beating her? _Sirius_ said: color me surprised if you manage to stay perfectly sane after having that done to you by the one person you trusted more than anyone. Bum had it a hundred times worse than him and yet you don't see Bum doing the things Sangwoo does, do you? _Sirius_ said: Also, correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like you're saying that it was only obvious that Sangwoo's mother would go crazy after suffering from depression and getting abused. Because it is. She's been mentally ill for like 2 decades after something happend to her as a child, and then she got abused by her husband. _Sirius_ said: Not sure if it's your wording but it almost sounds like you pity his mother? However, I think I should point out that this description of his mother can basically be copied and pasted in to Sangwoo's description. His mother became that way because she was traumatized by her husband and Sangwoo became crazy because he was traumatized by his mother. Not quite. Sangwoo's mom has been mentally ill since she's a child, she had a untreated mental illness for 2 decades and then her husband started abusing her, so there are several factors going on in her cause. I don't pity her at all, I pity nobody in the story except Yoon Bum, Seungbae, and all of Sangwoo's victims. _Sirius_ said: I find it a little strange how you seem to view both characters differently when they are basically the same people? The only difference would be that Sangwoo killed more people (the only reason probably being because he lived longer). How are Sangwoo and his mom the same people? Do you honestly believe that Sangwoo killing more people is the only difference here? Because you're comparing someone who killed her abusive husband, with someone who abused, tortured, and killed people for years. Sangwoo's mom had no reasons to kill random people (it's not like Sangwoo had a reason to torture and kill all these people, but still) so it wouldn't make a difference if she were to survive. _Sirius_ said: Another point to correct me on if I understood incorrectly, but it seems like you're saying that while Sangwoo and Bum experienced the same past, Sangwoo came out crazy and Bum came out relatively normal? Same past? Sangwoo: -Had a loving father for years. -Witnessed later on his father abusing his mom. -Mom attempt to kill him with poison during his high school days, not when he was a child. -Rape attempt by mom. Bum: -Lost his parents. -His uncle regularly starved and beat Bum every day. -His uncle always Bum to die like his parents did. -His uncle attempted to rip Bum's genitals off once. -Bum's body was always malnourished and full of bruises, as seen in the flashback. -Witnessed his uncle beating his grandma as well. -Was bullied in school and never had friends. -His uncle then began to creep on Bum and began to regularly rape Bum, which caused Bum to begin self-harming. -Bum's Grandma threw Bum under the bus and let the uncle keep rape Bum and severely abuse him with a belt. -Bum enrolled college for 4 years because of his uncle's abuse. -Bum then had to do military service, where he was also regularly sexually abused. -Bum implied in the beginning that he still lived with his uncle, in fact, Bum's room in Chapter 1 looks completely different from his apartment which Sangwoo checked out, so it's possible that he had to go back to live with his uncle and was still regularly raped by him there. -Got both of his legs broken by Sangwoo, got abused and tortured Sangoo for months, got raped by Sangwoo, and got almost killed multiple times by Sangwoo. (This is a TLDR because it would be otherwise too long). It's not even close, so considering that Bum went through the most in the story, yes he came out relatively normal when you consider how messed up Sangwoo, Bum's Uncle, Bum's superior in the army, and Sangwoo's mom are. Bum is just a affection deprived stalker who's a lifelong abuse and rape victim, while those 4 I mentioned, are abusers and rapists. _Sirius_ said: This is something I most definitely cannot agree with as Bum is far from normal in my eyes. Have we all forgotten that Bum was a stalker who trespassed into someone's house Compared to every character in the story except Seungbae, Bum is definitely one of the more normal ones. He's hypersexual cause he got always raped and sexually abused by his uncle and those guys in the army, and then became obsessed with Sangwoo due to his BPD after Sangwoo saved him from a rape attempt. No, stalking isn't okay, but Bum didn't have bad intentions and due to him getting abused through his whole life and having never experienced affection, he latches onto anyone who shows him affection. When you look at chapter 37 for example where Bum isn't physically abused for once, he acts completely normal and even when you think about the entire story, throughout the entire time he was with Sangwoo, he acted like any abuse victim does who's dealing with an abuser. _Sirius_ said: and that he ALSO killed someone (in heck of a brutal way at that)? Did you forget that Sangwoo is the one who planned the death of the girl and never told Bum anything about it? Sangwoo said that he planned the death of the girl for a long time, he let her bully Bum, he threw Bum in the closet and forced him to watch him have sex with the girl, etc, Sangwoo did all of those things because he believed that Bum would kill her and enjoy it and become like him. What happend however, was that Bum had a blackout moment due to 1)all the abuse that Sangwoo put him through and 2)because Bum remembered a traumatic moment of his past, Bum wasn't mentally there when it happend, he even drooled, he felt nothing, there is a term for that called derealization which is a common topic with BPD, which Bum suffers from. Afterwards, Bum felt bad for the entire story, he had nightmares about it, he refused to eat meat for weeks and he felt bad when he met the girl from his high school time Bum was abused for months when it happend and he had no choice. I mean seriously, let's say Bum didn't have a blackout moment and tried to refuse, then what? Sangwoo would kill him. Remember when the girl tried to escape from Sangwoo but the door was locked? Yeah, Bum couldn't escape from the situation AT ALL, either he does it, or he dies. Even if you swapped Bum with a completely sane person in this situatiom, that person would kill her, if it meant that they survive. Survival instincts, you know? And Bum wasn't even mentally there when he did it and he instantly regret it. My point is that I don't get what you were trying to get at with telling me that. We all know that Bum was never made out to be a murderer, he wants nothing to do with it, he never wanted his uncle to die despite the fact that his uncle abused and raped him for years and he saved Seungbae from Sangwoo, and then refused to kill Seungbae. The death of the girl was Sangwoo's fault because he planned it, broke Bum psychologically, and would have killed Bum if he didn't do it. _Sirius_ said: So once again, yes I do think that Sangwoo got what he deserved but the part I thought was bitter is that people also think he killed his own parents, when truthfully, it was his mother (hence why I think she was a winner). Sangwoo also made others think that Officer Park killed himself even though he killed him, and he destroyed families for years due to torturing and killing all these woman, so it's an eye for an eye, not bitter at all. She still got abused and then just died, so I wouldn't call her a winner, she died after all. _Sirius_ said: His mother's image gets to stay clean just as she wanted when she manipulated Sangwoo into thinking he killed his own father and he died painfully, again just as she wanted. What about Bum's Grandma? Bum's Uncle? The parents of Bum's uncle? The guys in the army? Sangwoo? Bum's Grandma: Guilt-tripped her grandson and kept on letting her son abuse and rape her grandson, yet her image gets to stay clean. Bum's Uncle: Abused and raped his nephew for years, nobody ever found out about it. Parents of Bum's uncle: Neglected their son, which turned the son into a bitter person. They're indirectly the reason why Bum's uncle abused and raped Bum. Guys in the army: Raped and sexually abused Bum, and received NO karma for it, it was jut forgotten as if it never happend (The rape attempt on Bum was known, while them raping and sexually abusing Bum was a secret, but still, they got away with what they did) Sangwoo: Got away easy with what he did when you consider the amount of trauma he caused to countless of families due to torturing and killing innocent women, as well has made a woman a widow cause he killed her husband (Bum from the gay bar), so the wife lost her husband while her child lost his father. _Sirius_ said: I honestly disagree that burning alive is not a painful death It's a painful death, just not painful enough for someone like him. _Sirius_ said: like previously mentioned, he was at his lowest mental state, making his death that much more painful. He got burned alive as he was trying to kill Bum and Seungbae, so it wasn't painful enough. _Sirius_ said: It kind of seems to me that your overall analysis is based mostly on what happened physically (killing people, raping people, etc.) but I think the reason this manhwa is so great is because it goes into such deep detail about the mental state of the characters. Thus, I think that both the physical and mental aspects should be considered when giving this story a proper analysis, especially when mental health is becoming that much greater of a problem in real life society. Not at all, I think you got a point. |
enopgAug 2, 2021 8:04 PM
enopg said: Same past? Sangwoo: -Had a loving father for years. -Witnessed later on his father abusing his mom. -Mom attempt to kill him with poison during his high school days, not when he was a child. -Rape attempt by mom. I know this is a few years ago, but I seriously need to understand that bias. How did you forget his mom choking him when he was just a child? His mother cheating and even calling her child son down so he can watch that? Telling that lover how she loves him all so that her son can hear that? It's the reason why he developed a fever, and she still made him say that he loves her. The abuse seemingly started because she cheated I'd say. Not justified, but it's not like this abuse came out of the nothing either. Even Sangwoo tells this in the form of the story of a female devil and a young man who fell for her. She killed her husband and gaslit Sangwoo into believing he killed his father, then forced her son to get rid of the body together with her. Then she started calling her own son "Babe", and not per accident as she stated, but with unpure intend. And it was not a rape attempt, it was rape, she rode his Dick. And did you seriously forget that she wanted to kill him? And then killed herself by slamming her head into the knife right after wishing him a painful death? And all of that just because he looked like his father and didn't want to get raped by his own mother? Idk why you're downplaying Sangwoo's childhood when those things alone are pretty heavy already. If you're reading this (I know it's been a few years): what, you're calling me a apologist next? Also, where was ever stated that he gets rid of women clothings once a week? You have screenshots backing up a lot of things, so you got some backing up those wild claims as well? Bum isn't as mentally sound as you made him to be either. I have BDP and I wouldn't be thinking all about "we're dating?" while sitting at the police because my abuser is a suspect of a murder investigation. And I've been submitted to a lot of abuse, similar to Bum, and we almost share even a birthday. Idk, the way he tries to solve every problem, from the missing Skiboard to whatever comes to mind, with sex is also a bit on the nose. I had that hypersexual phase as well but wouldn't try solving everything with sex, or stalk and trespress into the home of someone I'm interested in. It is clear that you have a clear bias here, but omitting most of Sangwoo's past while hyperfocusing on Bum's is just plain favourism I guess? Also, Seungbae isn't in any way, shape or form normal either. The way he got into the police is shady AF, and someone with a past like him shouldn't even be on the police, not to mention his violent dreams, how he treated his ex-neighbor and daughter of his father's murderer, and the way he beat up Sangwoo, jeopardizing his whole agenda before he could even make his case clear. Not to say that his suspicions were wrong, but the way he acted it's no wonder no one listened, he presented it like a madman, inclusive following decent into more madness. And acting like burning alive isn't the most painful thing to experience (followed only by giving birth) is telling. Not only did he burned alive - no, he survived, while being in constant pain. But even tho I agree and his death in the end was still too fast: I love the irony of his useless death. So pathetic ~ But really, no one in this universe could have tortured him like that, so there really was not much else to do. |
| Very ambiguous and far-fetched last chapter. Sangwoo CAN recover, of course with many burns, but he can be alive. Why he was cremated? Because of one old lady who simply PUT A PILLOW TO COVER HIS HEAD? It is ridiculous, there is ALWAYS a nurse in such department, I know about at as I am a doctor myself. And Bum? He COULD VISIT Sangwoo the day that he misconducted the hospital, but he WAS AFRAID? He, who, WENT THROUGH A LOT, SUCH HORROR AND GORE, COULDN'T VISIT Sangwoo? It all looks so funny to me. And I still hopes that we wasn't got hit by a car and survived. |
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| ๐๐ก๐ ๐ฆ๐จ๐ฌ๐ญ ๐๐ข๐ฌ๐ญ๐จ๐ซ๐ญ๐๐ ๐ฅ๐จ๐ฏ๐ ๐ฌ๐ญ๐จ๐ซ๐ฒ ๐'๐ฏ๐ ๐๐ฏ๐๐ซ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐ข๐ง ๐ฆ๐ฒ ๐ฅ๐ข๐๐ ๐ฅ๐จ๐ฅ, ๐๐๐ง๐ ๐ฐ๐จ๐จ ๐ ๐จ๐ญ ๐ฐ๐ก๐๐ญ ๐ก๐ ๐๐๐ฌ๐๐ซ๐ฏ๐๐ ๐๐ง๐ ๐ก๐จ๐ง๐๐ฌ๐ญ๐ฅ๐ฒ ๐๐ฎ๐ฆ ๐๐ฌ๐ค๐๐ ๐๐จ๐ซ ๐ข๐ญ ๐ญ๐จ๐จ... ๐๐ญ ๐ฐ๐๐ฌ ๐ ๐ฏ๐๐ซ๐ฒ ๐ข๐ง๐ญ๐๐ซ๐๐ฌ๐ญ๐ข๐ง๐ ๐ฌ๐ญ๐จ๐ซ๐ฒ ๐ญ๐จ ๐๐จ๐ฅ๐ฅ๐จ๐ฐ. |
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| Sangwoo calling out Bum wasn't necessarily out of love, what if he wanted to say "I'll kill you Bum just get here" LOL (considering their last encounter was Sangwoo trying to kill him fr) He never loved him at all, he just couldn't stop seeing Bum as his mom so didn't wanna kill him right away just cuz he couldn't let go, backed by the fact that he kept her corpse in the house for years in a weird pose He should've died in the house fire, but to me, this ending wasn't bad either, pathetic end for a pathetic manchild loser |
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