My main complaint with Episode 12

Jun 22, 2023 5:32 PM

Ejさま

Offline

Jan 2017

178

I think rape is realistic in a society like that, but yeah that was unnecessary. It didn't feel like there was enough purpose in it to let him actually go through with it. Unless it was because he used to rape the big sister before they switched bodies or something. I have that as a theory. That's probably why he had that sour face when he saw her again. He probably thought she was coming back for revenge from raping her back in the day

Ej사마

Jun 22, 2023 5:46 PM

#3

Serpae

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Jul 2022

2

I think describing it as "necessary" or not makes it sound as if it could be left out of the story, it was used to parallel other events in the story like with the children in heavens innocence being destroyed and also i think it was partially foreshadowed and implied that robin was never the perfect person, maybe not to the point where he would rape someone but i guess thats where the writer wanted to take it and use it to emphasise how delusional kiruko was about her understanding of robin as he disappeared and it was established early on hes a violent man. This scene couldve also been a lot more vulgar as from the small parts of the manga ive seen a lot more is shown and there are no breaks in the scene, the parallels that take place in the anime are at different points in the manga and i think this shows that production ig are conscious that this is tough topic to deal with but i believe dealt with it very well and built up to it as well as they could

Jun 22, 2023 6:24 PM

#4

truth999

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Mar 2021

847

it a lawless fallen society rape would be everywhere it doesn't hold back from what would be going on plus idk about you but as soon as I saw Robin I know he was fishy and not to be trusted like he was when mc was in his own body

Jun 22, 2023 6:39 PM

#5

Reversign

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Jan 2022

1079

I remember that forum that predicted that Twitter users would make a big deal of this

Jun 22, 2023 7:30 PM

#6

pipegf98

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Feb 2023

51

Since there's an episode left to air and that tragedy has only begun, I don't think it's fair to judge whether it is or not necessary and wheteher it is or not poorly developed since we don't know yet, the "act" isn't done yet. Let it finish in episode 13 and then you can judge wether it made sense or not.
What I think is fair to criticize are the camera angles. The director chose to show her body in a sexy way (just like SAO did) which detracts from the real drama that's happening on screen. As a cultured degenerate I admit that I enjoyed seeing her naked body animated with luscious detail, but as a fan of good stories I am disapointed, that sort of stuff breaks the immersion. I'd take good directing over horny fanservice every time.

pipegf98Jun 22, 2023 7:37 PM

Jun 22, 2023 7:47 PM

#7

hercules28

Offline

Apr 2019

59

Angglio_1 said:
I really don't mind disturbing scenes and have watched several movies, tv shows, animes and manga with disturbing scenes. If done correctly it can leave a lasting impression on the viewer.

Which lead me to a specific scenes this episode. That rape scene left a bad taste in my mouth. It came out of nowhere. No subtle hints or foreshadowing suggesting it and I have read comments that "If you live in an apocalyptic world world your humanity will be gone too". Which lead back to my point that it came out nowhere. The author could've made an effort how the people we are close to who are kind can develop into a monster if we are living in this world. But no that twist felt like a plot twist for the sake of plot twist.

Just leaving my 2 cents here for the people who wants to know why other people dislike this episode.

I'm an anime only I completely agree maybe robbie was being sus of kiruko at the start in haurki flashback but idk it felt so random. I can understand the idea of a character you look up to suddenly changing but I feel like it was so sudden true we didn't know anything about him you take the person in just to do that. I just thought of a example is shou tucker spoilers for full metal alchemist brotherhood we see shou tucker twisted reasoning as to why what he did but robbie was I'm just horny like what. I'm going to wait for the last ep for me to judge it I'm just really confused.

Jun 22, 2023 7:49 PM

#8

hercules28

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Apr 2019

59

truth999 said:
it a lawless fallen society rape would be everywhere it doesn't hold back from what would be going on plus idk about you but as soon as I saw Robin I know he was fishy and not to be trusted like he was when mc was in his own body

I can get the idea but where robbie is at they are forming a society so he can get laid if he wants to.

Jun 22, 2023 8:08 PM

#9

Angglio_1

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Feb 2023

159

hercules28 said:

Angglio_1 said:
I really don't mind disturbing scenes and have watched several movies, tv shows, animes and manga with disturbing scenes. If done correctly it can leave a lasting impression on the viewer.

Which lead me to a specific scenes this episode. That rape scene left a bad taste in my mouth. It came out of nowhere. No subtle hints or foreshadowing suggesting it and I have read comments that "If you live in an apocalyptic world world your humanity will be gone too". Which lead back to my point that it came out nowhere. The author could've made an effort how the people we are close to who are kind can develop into a monster if we are living in this world. But no that twist felt like a plot twist for the sake of plot twist.

Just leaving my 2 cents here for the people who wants to know why other people dislike this episode.

I'm an anime only I completely agree maybe robbie was being sus of kiruko at the start in haurki flashback but idk it felt so random. I can understand the idea of a character you look up to suddenly changing but I feel like it was so sudden true we didn't know anything about him you take the person in just to do that. I just thought of a example is shou tucker spoilers for full metal alchemist brotherhood we see shou tucker twisted reasoning as to why what he did but robbie was I'm just horny like what. I'm going to wait for the last ep for me to judge it I'm just really confused.

I'm an anime only too, and manga readers yelling at me because I didn't like that plot twist, saying you just don't like disturbing stuff

Jun 22, 2023 8:11 PM

#10

DexterDrubo

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Jul 2022

771

if we look at it as an anime (you know something we are watching for entertainment) sure it felt weird the way it happened.
But if compare it to real life then it makes sense as rapist rapes suddenly without giving any hints of such (even more so in a world where there aren't any law or humanity or peace left).

Jun 22, 2023 9:18 PM

#11

PurpleMario

Offline

May 2018

73

Idk, I prefer it this way. I understand why writers tend to "hint" you about the true intentions of the characters, but real world is nothing like that. The truth is, you never know people entirely, and the only thing we knew about Robin was the idealized version of him that we knew through an infant eyes. Psychopaths don't go here and there with a "psychopath face", they are just plain evil when noone is watching.

Jun 22, 2023 10:11 PM

#12

Waelpro9996

Offline

Jan 2023

17

Angglio_1 said:
I really don't mind disturbing scenes and have watched several movies, tv shows, animes and manga with disturbing scenes. If done correctly it can leave a lasting impression on the viewer.

Which lead me to a specific scenes this episode. That rape scene left a bad taste in my mouth. It came out of nowhere. No subtle hints or foreshadowing suggesting it and I have read comments that "If you live in an apocalyptic world world your humanity will be gone too". Which lead back to my point that it came out nowhere. The author could've made an effort how the people we are close to who are kind can develop into a monster if we are living in this world. But no that twist felt like a plot twist for the sake of plot twist.

Just leaving my 2 cents here for the people who wants to know why other people dislike this episode.

I think it's important that it came out of nowhere. The show felt a bit too easy. It was meant to really catch you off guard and it worked for me.

Jun 22, 2023 10:45 PM

#13

Saimatsu_Fan

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Sep 2021

1097

everything in a story can be unnecessary depending on what the author wants and what the audience themselves feel, nothing is objectively less or more unnecessary than anything else

Jun 23, 2023 12:10 AM

#14

The_Holyone66

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Feb 2022

1860

well it is more realistic this way

Jun 23, 2023 12:28 AM

#15

Chowkko

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Apr 2013

633

PurpleMario said:
Idk, I prefer it this way. I understand why writers tend to "hint" you about the true intentions of the characters, but real world is nothing like that. The truth is, you never know people entirely, and the only thing we knew about Robin was the idealized version of him that we knew through an infant eyes. Psychopaths don't go here and there with a "psychopath face", they are just plain evil when noone is watching.

I couldn't have agreed more with you

Jun 23, 2023 1:06 AM

#16

PirateHasan

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Jan 2017

731

I feel disgusted with this, also I should have seen this coming when the sick mangaka depicted pregnant kids.

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Jun 23, 2023 1:29 AM

#17

Mattinator95

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Jan 2018

4855

Robin used to do it with her before the brain swap apparently, apparently they hinted towards in the flashback episode where you see two sets of hands holding. But heard it’s more noticeable in the manga due to the sound effects things on panels etc

Jun 23, 2023 1:45 AM

#18

StyxParadise

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Feb 2023

1212

Yeah, I agree.

This was a pretty solid anime for the last 11 episodes, but episode 12 was just... ugh. The r**e scene made me feel sick to my stomach.

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Jun 23, 2023 1:52 AM

#19

Neidhardt_

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May 2021

155

PirateHasan said:
I feel disgusted with this, also I should have seen this coming when the sick mangaka depicted pregnant kids.

depicted pregnant kids?

Jun 23, 2023 2:37 AM

#20

ZenielDanaku

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Aug 2017

186

Neidhardt_ said:

PirateHasan said:
I feel disgusted with this, also I should have seen this coming when the sick mangaka depicted pregnant kids.

depicted pregnant kids?

I think the OP refers to Tokio.

Jun 23, 2023 3:00 AM

#21

hercules28

Offline

Apr 2019

59

Angglio_1 said:

hercules28 said:

I'm an anime only I completely agree maybe robbie was being sus of kiruko at the start in haurki flashback but idk it felt so random. I can understand the idea of a character you look up to suddenly changing but I feel like it was so sudden true we didn't know anything about him you take the person in just to do that. I just thought of a example is shou tucker spoilers for full metal alchemist brotherhood we see shou tucker twisted reasoning as to why what he did but robbie was I'm just horny like what. I'm going to wait for the last ep for me to judge it I'm just really confused.

I'm an anime only too, and manga readers yelling at me because I didn't like that plot twist, saying you just don't like disturbing stuff

I get what you mean I don't like the school kids part and people tell me cmon how do you not like it. I think kiruko and maru part are just more interesting part.

Jun 23, 2023 4:01 AM

#22

rvdboom

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Apr 2021

312

PirateHasan said:
I feel disgusted with this, also I should have seen this coming when the sick mangaka depicted pregnant kids.

Tokio is 14. It is too young by modern standards indeed but it happens and was probably the norm in many civilisations. I don't think it's a good thing in itself but why would a storyteller need to skip something that has been widespread for most of humanity life on earth?
You guys always seem to consider that an artist depicts only things he supports or endorse. That's obviously not true.

Jun 23, 2023 4:26 AM

#23

Luthandorius

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Dec 2015

3218

Generally I think people usually exaggerate when it comes to sexual violince. The scene imo was not that extrem. Even if I weren't into rape (I like it in hentai) I would not have found it "disturbing" or anything like that. There is a lot of physical violence that is more harmful to the chars. Where people don't get crazy. The stuff with the girl on the machines (nothing of the body left) few episodes ago - felt much "heavier" mood-wise.

Keep in mind that it is usually about the mental health consequences. And depending on the circumstances some rape stuff might worse than others + other crimes without sex involved can have similar or even more troublesome consecuences. Easiest example might be a hostage situation - where the persons also are almost guarantueed to get trauma ... having to fear to die and to experience something like that again. It is not automatically the sex getting aded that makes stuff worse. Always depends on the circumstances. Biggest thing might be the trust issue here - with Robin beign having been the trusted friend so far .. then turning 180 into evil.

I agree with the foreshadowing stuff though. This could be bad writing - unless they later give more info about the background of Robin. Until they shoved him evil-faced in episode 12 ... there were no hints regarding this. Which felt especially odd since they hinted for a lot of others stuff for the viewer (not necessarily for the chars that don't know all the info and puzzle pieces that we know since we know about both timelines/settings).

Jun 23, 2023 4:37 AM

#24

FreezePeach

Offline

Nov 2018

258

Angglio_1 said:
I really don't mind disturbing scenes and have watched several movies, tv shows, animes and manga with disturbing scenes. If done correctly it can leave a lasting impression on the viewer.

Which lead me to a specific scenes this episode. That rape scene left a bad taste in my mouth. It came out of nowhere. No subtle hints or foreshadowing suggesting it and I have read comments that "If you live in an apocalyptic world world your humanity will be gone too". Which lead back to my point that it came out nowhere. The author could've made an effort how the people we are close to who are kind can develop into a monster if we are living in this world. But no that twist felt like a plot twist for the sake of plot twist.

Just leaving my 2 cents here for the people who wants to know why other people dislike this episode.

I agree. Robin was nearly spotless before the rape. The only disturbing moment was him kicking the unconscious guy in the head during his first appearance. Orphanage leader, then well respected doctor in Immortal Order, then chief in Ibaraki. He wasn't just ok, he was awesome.

There was no reason to make him awesome in the first place. No one is, especially in difficult circumstances. "your humanity will be gone too" - the author does pretty good job in foreshadowing, characters behavior usually makes sense, and yet this particular metamorphose came out of nowhere. It seems to be forced into the story just to move it along.

"manga readers yelling at me because I didn't like that plot twist, saying you just don't like disturbing stuff" - let them, everyone entitled to an opinion. Manga fans being defensive about their manga is nothing new.

Rape scene didn't particularly bother me, it was just a wtf moment. Illusions produced by Ohma and the monster in the basement were much more disturbing. Actual pain and life threatening crippling wounds.

Jun 23, 2023 4:43 AM

#25

ilusatus

Offline

Nov 2017

236

What?
I never like Robin since his first appereance.
Just another thug leader that try to look cool infront of his men.
Its pretty obvious for me Haruki/Kiruko just blindly idolize him.
Which explored in Totori episode, how good people can think bad guy as a hero.
That rape scene kinda expected for me, but the "look what im goona do to your sister" part is blown my mind as "hes not just a bad guy, hes really fucked up in his head".

Jun 23, 2023 4:52 AM

#26

rvdboom

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Apr 2021

312

Luthandorius said:
Until they shoved him evil-faced in episode 12 ... there were no hints regarding this. Which felt especially odd since they hinted for a lot of others stuff for the viewer (not necessarily for the chars that don't know all the info and puzzle pieces that we know since we know about both timelines/settings).

I'll say it as often as needed : you're aware that most rapes in the real world are perpetrated by family members, many of them having a great social reputation and professional situations (lawyers, doctors, etc.)
The discovery of them being a rapist usually comes to a shock for all their acquaintances.
So there's absolutely no reason why it couldn't be the same for Robin.
After all, the little information we have about him is from third parties, we have very few direct scenes showing him in action directly.

Jun 23, 2023 5:01 AM

#27

Luthandorius

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Dec 2015

3218

Of course. That is why I added my part with the chars not knowing. For them it makes sense. For the viewers though (they can have more info) the anime gave hints and stuff - at least for other things (like in the facility where stuff can be linked to other evennts outside).

Might be though that the plot just focused trying to hint stuff exclusively for things that were tied to the faclity. (+Robing not having had and connection to there.) For later exploration (since it is an important char) it would make sense to give a info on what he dit while the 2 mains in the outside world were traveling.

Jun 23, 2023 5:11 AM

#28

Insanity_Monarch

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Apr 2021

62

Saying you don’t mind disturbing scenes only to then be complaining about it. All I’ll say is that people who get offended by fiction is a bunch of retards

Jun 23, 2023 5:55 AM

#29

rvdboom

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Apr 2021

312

Luthandorius said:
For later exploration (since it is an important char) it would make sense to give a info on what he dit while the 2 mains in the outside world were traveling.

The author is clearly playing with his readers / audience. There are topics where there is foreshadowing, others which don't and are dropped suddenly onto them.
This one is heavy, for sure, but I don't think the way it is written is due to any sloppiness or lazyness: it's consciously done for reason.
Of course, this opinion is valid if we end up getting more insight in the future on Robin and his actions and choices. If we don't, I'll revise my judgement. :-)

Jun 23, 2023 7:10 AM

#30

Piromysl

Offline

Jul 2015

12393

If you pay closer attention, you'll notice that it wasn't that Robin just wanted to bust a nut, but for whatever reason he wanted to humiliate Kiruko by giving him a front row seat to see his beloved sister being defiled and violated.

Jun 23, 2023 7:30 AM

#31

Kouma07

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Sep 2021

18

There were some hints tho at least i saw a clear one hint that something bad was going to happen to her

Jun 23, 2023 7:36 AM

#32

Royalty459

Offline

Nov 2018

153

Angglio_1 said:
I really don't mind disturbing scenes and have watched several movies, tv shows, animes and manga with disturbing scenes. If done correctly it can leave a lasting impression on the viewer.

Which lead me to a specific scenes this episode. That rape scene left a bad taste in my mouth. It came out of nowhere. No subtle hints or foreshadowing suggesting it and I have read comments that "If you live in an apocalyptic world world your humanity will be gone too". Which lead back to my point that it came out nowhere. The author could've made an effort how the people we are close to who are kind can develop into a monster if we are living in this world. But no that twist felt like a plot twist for the sake of plot twist.

Just leaving my 2 cents here for the people who wants to know why other people dislike this episode.

Exactly. This was also my problem with the episode. I don't like how there was no hints of Robin being a creep. Like it came out of nowhere and honestly felt like the show was trying hard to pair Maru with Kiriko so they couldn't have Robin be in the picture unless he was a messed up guy. Like, why destroy the last remaining hope that Kiriko has just to make her/him closer to Maru? This episode lowkey annoyed me because there was literally no reason to go this route.

Jun 23, 2023 7:41 AM

#33

Royalty459

Offline

Nov 2018

153

PurpleMario said:
Idk, I prefer it this way. I understand why writers tend to "hint" you about the true intentions of the characters, but real world is nothing like that. The truth is, you never know people entirely, and the only thing we knew about Robin was the idealized version of him that we knew through an infant eyes. Psychopaths don't go here and there with a "psychopath face", they are just plain evil when noone is watching.

But this is a story and a story should be written properly and for the viewers. just having r**e come out of nowhere from a character that was viewed as a decent person is weird.

Jun 23, 2023 8:46 AM

#34

DexterDrubo

Offline

Jul 2022

771

Royalty459 said:

PurpleMario said:
Idk, I prefer it this way. I understand why writers tend to "hint" you about the true intentions of the characters, but real world is nothing like that. The truth is, you never know people entirely, and the only thing we knew about Robin was the idealized version of him that we knew through an infant eyes. Psychopaths don't go here and there with a "psychopath face", they are just plain evil when noone is watching.

But this is a story and a story should be written properly and for the viewers. just having r**e come out of nowhere from a character that was viewed as a decent person is weird.

it's just you're dumb and can't understand things. As far as I know Rapist are human, have normal face and do normal thing and a good amount of the time they are some lawyer or doctor or anything. And I don't know you didn't find Robin suspicious.
I can totally see men raping women with no reason at all in a destroyed world where there are no law.

Jun 23, 2023 8:54 AM

#35

haykall12

Offline

Apr 2020

17

Royalty459 said:

PurpleMario said:
Idk, I prefer it this way. I understand why writers tend to "hint" you about the true intentions of the characters, but real world is nothing like that. The truth is, you never know people entirely, and the only thing we knew about Robin was the idealized version of him that we knew through an infant eyes. Psychopaths don't go here and there with a "psychopath face", they are just plain evil when noone is watching.

But this is a story and a story should be written properly and for the viewers. just having r**e come out of nowhere from a character that was viewed as a decent person is weird.

Agree that a story should be written properly and i do feel like this robin revelation was intended to be a twist but they actually give some red flag. How he acts like a thug but it doesnt felt like it because he was protecting haruki was one of them. the other one other people mention is 2 cuts which people assume is kiriko and robin have sex that played during haruki's flashback when he gets his brain transplanted into his sister.

But i dont agree that a story is written for the viewer, or at least, only for the viewer. If you watched some of the previous episodes, you can see how the author like to give his commentary on some social condition like that liviuman or whatever that organization name being hostile. The other one is how kona get bedridden because he somehow connected to tokio when she delivered her baby which is the author view on how women have to deal with much greater physical pain than men thus kona getting bedridden while tokio wasn't. What i'm trying to say is an author can have something to say about anything and try to say that through his story. I do think its important to find the common ground betweenwhat the author wants to say and how it might be seen by the viewer but i like it more when an author do this kind of thing and this sudden r*pe thing, which i dont really like but dont have much problem with either, might just another one of his views on how rapes in the real world are sometimes perpetrated by someone close to you. Again this could be wrong though

Jun 23, 2023 8:57 AM

#36

APolygons2

Offline

Oct 2019

6818

Angglio_1 said:
It came out of nowhere. No subtle hints or foreshadowing suggesting it

then your complaint is completely pointless. you just needed to pay more attention.

there plenty of hints and red flags. even more than usual.

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Jun 23, 2023 1:19 PM

#37

jackielouise

Offline

Aug 2013

51

Mattinator95 said:
Robin used to do it with her before the brain swap apparently, apparently they hinted towards in the flashback episode where you see two sets of hands holding. But heard it’s more noticeable in the manga due to the sound effects things on panels etc

A flashback? In what episode was that?

Jun 23, 2023 7:53 PM

#38

PurpleMario

Offline

May 2018

73

Royalty459 said:

PurpleMario said:
Idk, I prefer it this way. I understand why writers tend to "hint" you about the true intentions of the characters, but real world is nothing like that. The truth is, you never know people entirely, and the only thing we knew about Robin was the idealized version of him that we knew through an infant eyes. Psychopaths don't go here and there with a "psychopath face", they are just plain evil when noone is watching.

But this is a story and a story should be written properly and for the viewers. just having r**e come out of nowhere from a character that was viewed as a decent person is weird.

I wouldnt say its "weird". Instead, I think its just "tragic". We only know as much as the author want us to know, so we thought Robin was a nice decent person, and then, literally out of nowhere, we get to see his true colours in the most horrible way (for us and for Kiruko). People is debating if it was "necessary". I dont know how necessary it was as we still have to see how will Kiruko take this and how much it will affect her/him. The story could even end here, and that doesnt mean it is poorly written, is just that the author already told us we they wanted to tell. So I cant judge yet if it was "necessary" or "properly written", the only thing I can say for sure is that the author wanted to give us a huge shock, and goddamn they made it.

Jun 23, 2023 9:21 PM

#39

Mattinator95

Offline

Jan 2018

4855

jackielouise said:

Mattinator95 said:
Robin used to do it with her before the brain swap apparently, apparently they hinted towards in the flashback episode where you see two sets of hands holding. But heard it’s more noticeable in the manga due to the sound effects things on panels etc

A flashback? In what episode was that?

The one when we find out what happened with the mc and his sister.

Jun 23, 2023 9:52 PM

#40

Jackson1333

Offline

Jul 2019

987

Mattinator95 said:

jackielouise said:

A flashback? In what episode was that?

The one when we find out what happened with the mc and his sister.

So that brief hand holding in the flashback in episode 3 wasn't in the manga, it was added in the anime, and the part about it being more noticeable in the manga because of the sound effect things, I think he is referring to a different flash back we haven't seen yet, he might have gotten them confused.

Jun 24, 2023 2:16 AM

#41

a8612152

Offline

Jan 2017

56

I think we have to wait a little while to see how well it works with the story.

As for how problematic the scene is, at least it isn't like Goblin Slayer or Redo of Healer where rapes are only used for shock value and sexualized like hentai.

Jun 24, 2023 2:37 AM

#42

bokuakanonstop

Offline

Mar 2023

2

Angglio_1 said:
I really don't mind disturbing scenes and have watched several movies, tv shows, animes and manga with disturbing scenes. If done correctly it can leave a lasting impression on the viewer.

Which lead me to a specific scenes this episode. That rape scene left a bad taste in my mouth. It came out of nowhere. No subtle hints or foreshadowing suggesting it and I have read comments that "If you live in an apocalyptic world world your humanity will be gone too". Which lead back to my point that it came out nowhere. The author could've made an effort how the people we are close to who are kind can develop into a monster if we are living in this world. But no that twist felt like a plot twist for the sake of plot twist.

Just leaving my 2 cents here for the people who wants to know why other people dislike this episode.

but that’s the thing with rape—and all other horrific deeds, most of the time they happen when people least expect it. i’ve read a couple of spoilers relating to what happened before seeing that episode, and frankly it just made it the more disgusting. there is a story behind it and definitely far from unnecessary, because that happens in real life, and that unexpected too unfortunately.

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My main complaint with Episode 12

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