Aoi Hana Chapter 30 Discussion

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Mar 2009

THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER.
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Flashback... too slow.. wanted more action!

Dec 6, 2009 8:20 AM

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Jun 2008

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More action?

That was a much, much needed flashback. Before, Chizu just seemed like this representation of one of the betrayals Fumi had to face growing up. But Shimura is a skilled mangaka. She doesn't just bring a character in for nothing, especially one who has shaped her protagonist to be the young woman she is now.

I liked it. Now Chizu's not just the "older cousin who helped Fumi mature" in more ways than one. Chizu's a real person now, with goals, with pressures placed on her, and expectations and fears. It was a bit too short, if you ask me. I'd have liked if the flashback was longer, but it serves its purpose. Shimura doesn't let her works wallow in its past like other manga series. She just shows you how important it is in patches and pieces.

Dec 6, 2009 10:38 AM

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Jan 2009

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Am I... the only one who just thinks this is way too slow? And I don't mean the chapter in general, but the whole thing.

I'm not surprised I didn't enjoy the manga since it was the same with the anime but I really hoped the anime was at fault and etc. But no... And... anyway. Continuing it, just to see where it goes. It'll be a long ride though.

About the chapter: Oh well. At least the play is out of the picture at last. But yeah, too short flashback. Not that I'm surprised.

Nao-staniDec 6, 2009 10:43 AM

Dec 6, 2009 10:50 AM

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Jun 2008

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Nao-stani said:
Am I... the only one who just thinks this is way too slow? And I don't mean the chapter in general, but the whole thing.

You are not the only person who thinks that, and I'd recommend manga like Girl Friends or Sasameki Koto to you because it might appeal to your wants a little more.

Aoi Hana is supposed to be slow. Please consider the audience for which this is written and the genres. "Slow" can be applied to a shounen manga where the fight is taking about ten chapters to end because they're stopping in the middle of it to give long speeches. THAT is slow.

In a manga that is about a girl coming to terms about her sexuality and her identity, I don't know how it can be called "slow" because there is no goal that Fumi is running towards. Does life stop at: when I get a girlfriend and graduate from high school, life is complete! No. It doesn't happen. Unless someone informed you that you're going to die at eighteen, fulfilling certain goals in high school is not the be all and end all of your life.

And this should be applied to Aoi Hana. Getting Akira is not the goal here. You are sorely misinformed if anyone ever told you that this was the manga's point.

It's a good thing that it's slow. There'd be absolutely no character growth or logical flow if events just zipped by. And why does everyone seem to hate the plays? I think it's rather commendable that the plays are so important. It goes to show you that these girls aren't just obsessed with romance and love--they have lives outside their romantic life.

Dec 6, 2009 11:57 AM

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Jan 2009

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I'd recommend manga like Girl Friends or Sasameki Koto

Oh yes, I'm really pleased with Girl Friends at the moment, it's slow too, but not to that extent. And Sasameki Koto is next in the list... I'm just waiting for the anime to finish :)

I understand what you mean, but there is slow and slow. I don't mind slow development, but I don't see the point in making half of the chapter "filler-wise" /There are a lot of things that we can live without, and no, I'm not talking about the plays; There is sometimes some random talk which is just uninteresting and boring. That's maybe my only complain about Girl Friends, too/. Plus sometimes there is only black "screen" with text, which takes all the page, houses and other things which really irritated me, considering one chapter is only 20 or so pages and is coming out every two months. This is the reason I call it slow in general. I mean, if the mangaka replaces them with pieces of the plot, everything will be 2x faster.

Nao-staniDec 6, 2009 12:00 PM

Dec 6, 2009 12:42 PM

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Nao-stani said:
I'm not talking about the plays; There is sometimes some random talk which is just uninteresting and boring.

Ho ho, go read it again. Trust me when I tell you that the random talk is not random at all. Perhaps this is my benefit as a literature student (and Shimura is a mangaka who loves her literature as well) but the dialogue in Aoi Hana is not straight-forward at all. It might read like they're saying absolutely nothing of relevance, but that's the skill of the writer--in saying "nothing" she has said everything.

Aoi Hana was a very meandering and slow series for me at the beginning, but it was somewhere around the third volume, I went back and re-read the old chapters and realised I had been reading it in ways that it was not intended to be read.

If you pay attention to the dialogue, things that a character says might seem pointless when they say it, but when you contextualise it, it can get about three alternate meanings. And that's exactly what the mangaka wants. Have you read the Old Man and the Sea? The same principle applies. It's not just about a man catching a big-ass fish.

Nao-stani said:
I mean, if the mangaka replaces them with pieces of the plot, everything will be 2x faster.

But those black screens with text are plot devices. A lot of people confuse story with plot. The story is what is being told. The plot is how the story is told.

It's a very useful and very easy to use plot device. Saves a lot of drawing time, and it also puts significance on the dialogue or narration.

But again, the "plot" of Aoi Hana is not meant to progress this story, but unfold it. It's about uncovering, not ploughing forward.

Dec 6, 2009 1:15 PM

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Jan 2009

388

Well, I don't know. It's just not for everyone. Personally I think many, many things can be compressed in both space and story, considering it's only ~20 pages per chapter. If it was ~40 I would've let it go but in this state I just can't approve it. As you say in your profile... it's just not my cup of tea (: And with me it was the opposite - around volume 3 I started losing interest. Strange :D

Well, still Fumi's confession is bugging me since I didn't notice any hints for it beforehand. Or I probably was missing something but either way... maybe I'm more for the obvious things. And for a second there I thought Akira was the one who's starting to feel, well, strange towards her, not Fumi, so it was really a surprise for me. Though not in the good way for some or another reason.

Nao-staniDec 6, 2009 1:19 PM

Dec 6, 2009 1:21 PM

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Jun 2008

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Nao-stani said:
Well, I don't know. It's just not for everyone. Personally I think many, many things can be compressed in both space and story, considering it's only ~20 pages per chapter. If it was ~40 I would've let it go but in this state I just can't approve it. As you say in your profile... it's just not my cup of tea (: And with me it was the opposite - around volume 3 I started losing interest. Strange :D

Well, still Fumi's confession is bugging me since I didn't notice any hints for it beforehand. Or I probably was missing something but either way... maybe I'm more for the obvious things. And for a second there I thought Akira was the one who's starting to feel, well, strange towards her, not Fumi, so it was really a surprise for me.

Well, that's true. But I won't go reading Bleach for example because I know the quick pace and the non-stop action is not made for persons like me.

I'd recommend more slice of life manga and anime to you, only so you could know that ALL manga of this genre run this slowly, and sometimes even slower. Perhaps the excruciation might garner newfound appreciation.

Dec 6, 2009 1:56 PM

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388

This is true, besides I don't read manga that much because of health problems /gah, my eyes/ and you can probably say I'm new to this but still it's the slowest I've read/watched up to date so it's only natural for me to be raging and whatever I'm doing with writing all this nonsence. Time will show - as I said, it'll be a long road so xD I hope I'll get used to it a bit more - the mega slow pace that is.

I have other problems with the manga, it's not just the pace, so I'm not throwing all the blame at it. And those are extremely individual problems so I won't argue about that because everyone has an opinion and mine is always... kind of strange.

We'll see how it goes, a chapter every two months won't kill me and with time I might raise my score for it. ^_^

Nao-staniDec 6, 2009 1:59 PM

Dec 6, 2009 2:21 PM

#10

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Mar 2009

Ho-ho, Girl friends is my favorite manga for now. It's not slow anywhere, attractive art, beautiful and realistic feelings development. Sweet=)
Aoi hana IS slow in a way. Heroes personalities are slow, they feelings are slow too. Romantic part is most important, but here we have some unexpected acts, acts with doubtful background - and it becomes hard to believe in such romance.
It's still readable, but not awesome.
"Slow" - is not necessarily bad. For example: i like H2 very much, it's way too slow sometimes (with all that baseball stuff), but romace there is on such level, that u won't mind reading 100 more chaps of it %)

Dec 6, 2009 2:43 PM

#11

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Mar 2009

Oh, about more action:
Such flashback was't needed here. All stuff about Chizu was't simple from the start: they had SEX - how's that simple or just "older cousin who helped Fumi mature".
But that's already in the past 4 Fumi. It has to be if she is mature ;)
But Fumi is slow, she is't mature, is't clear with her own feelings
( it's rather surprising actualy that they had sex)
So i'd like to read about some new stuff, development, kinda maturing, but not flashbacs about stuff that we already read in the start of the series. Selfcopy is't very good thing 4 any manga

polenoDec 6, 2009 3:11 PM

Dec 7, 2009 9:26 AM

#12

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Jun 2008

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poleno said:
Oh, about more action:
Such flashback was't needed here. All stuff about Chizu was't simple from the start: they had SEX - how's that simple or just "older cousin who helped Fumi mature".
But that's already in the past 4 Fumi. It has to be if she is mature ;)
But Fumi is slow, she is't mature, is't clear with her own feelings
( it's rather surprising actualy that they had sex)
So i'd like to read about some new stuff, development, kinda maturing, but not flashbacs about stuff that we already read in the start of the series. Selfcopy is't very good thing 4 any manga

Such flashback wasn't needed? As much as I don't care for flashback, it was long overdue. And why?

Well, Fumi's relationship with Chizu and all subsequent emotions attached to that period in her life is a driving force in the manga.

The story opens with: her being "dumped" by Chizu.
The confession with Akira happens when: Fumi comes out and tells Akira the whole truth about her and Chizu.

In fact, Chizu disappeared for an entire year basically. It would have been odd that such an important person to Fumi and the person who started Fumi off on her self-discovery journey just disappeared for good.

The flashback was even more important because we finally figure out what Fumi did when she moved.

Did she have friends? She was too shy and reserved to make any.
Did that last forever? No, she started reaching out and accepting people slowly.
Who was she close with as a child? Chizu.
Who was she close with as a pre-pubescent? Chizu.
Who was she close with as a teen? Chizu.

A background has thus been established, and furthermore, Chizu is not just seen as predator or a jerk.

All it sounds so far is like you're just impatient to see the "romance plot" go somewhere. Ever been in love before with a straight girl or asexual girl? The romance is not going to go anywhere until Akira comes to terms with what Fumi is really implying and saying to her.

Dec 7, 2009 9:53 AM

#13

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Mar 2009

From Fumi's view - she was dumped by Chizu. No wonder she disappeared from Fumi's life - she wasn't or rather isn't needed anymore.

tehnominator said:

Well, Fumi's relationship with Chizu and all subsequent emotions attached to that period in her life is a driving force in the manga.
...

A background has thus been established, and furthermore, Chizu is not just seen as predator or a jerk.

that was obvious from the start, and now it's just pointless to remind it.
Im not thrilled to be impatient with this manga. It's just slow, poor arted but still readable and criticizable ^_^

Dec 9, 2009 9:18 AM

#14

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Jun 2008

2785

poleno said:
From Fumi's view - she was dumped by Chizu. No wonder she disappeared from Fumi's life - she wasn't or rather isn't needed anymore.

that was obvious from the start, and now it's just pointless to remind it.
Im not thrilled to be impatient with this manga. It's just slow, poor arted but still readable and criticizable ^_^

It wasn't obvious from the start. Where in any of Chizu's prior scenes was she ever made sympathetic?

She appeared, and this is basically what she did:

- see Fumi off to school
- flirt with her
- not tell her she was getting married
- passed off the revelation and betrayal with an apologetic smile
- disappears for a year

The general consensus was that Chizu was awful, used Fumi for sex and whatnot, and just dumped her when it was convenient. That wasn't MY interpretation, but that is what many readers assumed, and technically, they wouldn't be wrong since there was nothing to defend Chizu with.

The flashback allowed for us to cement that, okay, Chizu wasn't just taking advantage. She had pressures placed on her, and she's still in a state of denial, not to mention, she's heartbroken at the way she treated her cousin. She knew the way she left Fumi wasn't the best, and this chapter isn't there to redeem her, but to show us that she has been laden with guilt for a while over it.

Dec 9, 2009 1:06 PM

#15