NeoFireHawk said: Be more like Aya Hirano if you think you have the skill to do your job properly otherwise you have to take care your fans more than your actual job.Exactly. If you don't want reactions like these from your fans, you should refrain from entering the idol industry. |
 "A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie." |
NeoFireHawk said: Most Westerners get really confused with this point since a lot of idols are also singers, VA and actresses, so a lot of people here believe that an idol in Japan is just another name for a singer, VA or/and actress like in the US, but nothing could be further from the truth. ... there's nothing even remotely similar in our cultures Pretty much this. However, we are not idol otakus here. We don't give a damn about anything other than her seiyuu career. Even if she quit her seiyuu career fans should be supportive too. It's her decision. I think jmal is criticizing the overall delusions of the more hardline idol otakus in general. The fact that the industry was designed to encourage this type of reaction doesn't make these reactions pleasant. Using the argument "this is the idol industry and how it works" does not invalidate the criticism about it. That's not how argumentation works. Also let's not be delusional about the matter by reading Sankaku. That site is just mostly propaganda and a nest of trolls. The majority of the idol fans are regular people. Only the hardliners are more hardcore. Even then, what they say on the Internet is just 2ch and 4ch level of Internet trolling. It's called having a low mental age on the Internet syndrome. NeoFireHawk said: I find very hypocrite that you are criticizing Japanese idol otakus for not wanting to deal with the inconveniences of reality, when here in the West the whole child-rearing process consists of precisely censoring everything that could soil the holy innocence of our children and teens so that they believe everything in the world is a Disneyland theme park full of dreams and happiness. jmal wasn't defending western culture. That's not hypocrisy. And please no more "people don't understand Japanese culture". Unless you are Japanese yourself. Even then, a lot of foreigners understand Japanese culture, sometimes more than the Japanese themselves. However, it is true that most East Asians also share a common and affiliated cultural background as opposed to Westerners. |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
| Yes, sure the fans are the financial support. However, idols are not supposed to be their slaves. |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
jmal said: Slightly different execution in some areas (heavier emphasis on virginity, which is my biggest problem with it) No, the heavier emphasis is not really on virginity but on public image and appearances. Remember that idols are pretty much trading their personal lives for fame, so anything that goes against the ideal they are trying to sell is forbidden. And that goes whether the idol is female or male, there's no difference here. And forget any boyfriend/girlfriend problem, if somebody in the media finds that an idol has been for example, smoking since she or he is 18 (legal age in Japan is 20, I believe) and makes it public the talent agency will drop that idol immediately. Something as simple as smoking can completely destroy an idol career forever. jmal said: But this is just the problem! I find both the industry (when taken to extremes) and the fandom (when taken to extremes) equally disturbing. Well, anything taken to extremes is disturbing and dangerous. jmal said: But this is about Tanaka Rie. She did not reveal herself to be a gangbanging prostitute with a crack addiction. She married a well-respected peer in her industry. There is a fundamental difference here, right? I am not willing to accept an industry or a fandom where such a thing is considered a "betrayal". It was exactly this point that made me write my first reply to your post. First, why are you so worked up by the closure of Rie's official fan club? There's no controversy or anything of the sort in the news. It's simply saying that she got married and her official fanclub is closing. If I remember correctly, during Hirano Aya's controversy, it was announced that her official fan club closed the same day she left her management agency, which has always led me to believe that official fan clubs are managed by the idol's agency in some way, so the news of the closure of Rie's official fan club may be because she wants to leave the firm or something along those lines. The curiosity as to what led you to respond in a manner so unlike your usual informative and level-headed responses is what made me originally believe that you simply were unfamiliar with the Japanese idol industry in general. jmal said: I'll need you to point out where I defended or even discussed western culture (the very idea that I would amuses me) before I can hope to reply. If not, well, I don't think that's how hypocrisy works. You are criticizing a group of people belonging to a different culture because they don't want to deal with the inconveniences of reality, yet our own culture worships idealization so much that the only movies children are allowed to watch are the ones where they are made believe that the whole world is a fairy tale where every story has a happy ending. That said, now re-reading what I wrote I found my past post hostile and really uncalled for, I apologize. wakka9ca said: Also let's not be delusional about the matter by reading Sankaku. That site is just mostly propaganda and a nest of trolls. The majority of the idol fans are regular people. Only the hardliners are more hardcore. Even then, what they say on the Internet is just 2ch and 4ch level of Internet trolling. It's called having a low mental age on the Internet syndrome. Yes, the idol industry is pretty mainstream in Japanese society. That's why I never thought that Sankaku's attempt to make the typical Japanese anime otaku into the worst type of idol otaku would be that successful since after all, the two subcultures are really incomparable in size and a fast search in Google would tell you how ridiculous Sankaku's claims are. But sadly, I was very wrong. wakka9ca said: And please no more "people don't understand Japanese culture". Unless you are Japanese yourself. Even then, a lot of foreigners understand Japanese culture, sometimes more than the Japanese themselves. Well, generally people don't understand foreign cultures and much less concepts that go against their own personal morality. Culture shock can be a very nasty thing. wakka9ca said: However, it is true that most East Asians also share a common and affiliated cultural background as opposed to Westerners. The main difference is that Western societies are individualistic by nature, so in this case we have people becoming enraged by the mere thought of people not respecting an idol's individuality and right to do whatever he/she wishes with his/her life, while Eastern societies are collectivistic by nature, so the interdependence of the individual is the number one priority, where the well-being of the majority outweighs your own. So criticizing a group belonging to a collectivistic country using the values and morals of an individualistic society has always seemed fundamentally wrong to me. |
  |
| That's a bit of an age gap but I wish them luck and many congrats. |
| Wish them all the happiness. |
     |
Ardamaeus said: Late to the party, but my sentiments exactly. ^_^Wish them all the happiness. Meantime, Rie Tanaka has posted a photo of the wedding on her Twitter account. |
 |
RyanSaotome said: Its too bad that Tanakas career as a seiyuu is essentially over now. I disagree, for the obsessive seiyuu lovers, according to their perspective, she is an old hag by now @ 33 Second she is not a ***_insert your own adjective-***** woman that was screwing around sexually with several of her coworkers..... I see no problem at all, save for a minority of her more hardcore followers-. I Think you and me know plenty of examples of female seiyuu getting married and their seiyuu work is the same as always, Tanaka Rie is a consolidated seiyuu by now, not a seiyuu over-hyped and over-rated by one(or 2) equally over-rated character/series, that got famous basically overnight. I can only see majority of people congratulating her. |
9988Jan 7, 2013 11:49 AM
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