Who is the strongest servant in Fate-verse?
| Her Strength was only B rank in the Fate route. When she gets Rin as a Master in UBW the narrator just says something to the effect of "she could even defeat Berserker easily like this," but there's no evidence beyond that. That's why it's questionable. |
TheRealBoyd said: Her Strength was only B rank in the Fate route. When she gets Rin as a Master in UBW the narrator just says something to the effect of "she could even defeat Berserker easily like this," but there's no evidence beyond that. That's why it's questionable. I wish we could've seen Rin's Saber do much more. All we got to see is her fight with Assasain. |
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Ragna92 said: TheRealBoyd said: Her Strength was only B rank in the Fate route. When she gets Rin as a Master in UBW the narrator just says something to the effect of "she could even defeat Berserker easily like this," but there's no evidence beyond that. That's why it's questionable. I wish we could've seen Rin's Saber do much more. All we got to see is her fight with Assasain. which was pretty pathetic since she won with plothax |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| Saying Rin/Saber is strong is kinda pointless, Almost all servants would be amazing with Rin. Saber being strong with Rin is not very telling for how good Saber really is, seeing as how ANYONE with Rin is a monster. |
Ragna92 said: How many lives did Caliburn even take out again? Berserker had 5 lives left but from what I remember Caliburn was able to kill him an extra time or something. It took out seven lives. Not sure how though... Excalibur should be stronger. Only thing that's ever mentioned is that Saber likes it more or something, which shouldn't make such a huge difference. |
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ataraxial said: Ragna92 said: How many lives did Caliburn even take out again? Berserker had 5 lives left but from what I remember Caliburn was able to kill him an extra time or something. It took out seven lives. Not sure how though... Excalibur should be stronger. Only thing that's ever mentioned is that Saber likes it more or something, which shouldn't make such a huge difference. if mirror moon ppl were not bsing caliburn had that holy fire thing which continuously burnt away berserker's lives excalibur is just a beam and thats it therefore prob cant take away all 12 lives its all about compatibility so |
BloodRequiemApr 30, 2012 5:43 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: Ragna92 said: How many lives did Caliburn even take out again? Berserker had 5 lives left but from what I remember Caliburn was able to kill him an extra time or something. It took out seven lives. Not sure how though... Excalibur should be stronger. Only thing that's ever mentioned is that Saber likes it more or something, which shouldn't make such a huge difference. if mirror moon ppl were not bsing caliburn had that holy fire thing which continuously burnt away berserker's lives excalibur is just a beam and thats it therefore prob cant take away all 12 lives its all about compatibility so Sure, compatibility, but that shouldn't make the difference between not able to scratch Berserker at all and breaking through his axe-sword + taking seven lives. Excalibur is explicitly stated to be a stronger sword than Caliburn even without the beam attack and considering that Caliburn was traced. What gives (other than obvious plothax)? Never heard of this holy fire thing. What is it? |
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ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: Ragna92 said: How many lives did Caliburn even take out again? Berserker had 5 lives left but from what I remember Caliburn was able to kill him an extra time or something. It took out seven lives. Not sure how though... Excalibur should be stronger. Only thing that's ever mentioned is that Saber likes it more or something, which shouldn't make such a huge difference. if mirror moon ppl were not bsing caliburn had that holy fire thing which continuously burnt away berserker's lives excalibur is just a beam and thats it therefore prob cant take away all 12 lives its all about compatibility so Sure, compatibility, but that shouldn't make the difference between not able to scratch Berserker at all and breaking through his axe-sword + taking seven lives. Excalibur is explicitly stated to be a stronger sword than Caliburn even without the beam attack and considering that Caliburn was traced. What gives (other than obvious plothax)? Never heard of this holy fire thing. What is it? excalibur was bounded by invisible air which made it into a rank c thats why it didnt scratch berserker caliburn is totally a deus ex machina anyways takeuchi prob begs nasu all the time to make his waifu haxed holy fire thing no idea heard it some years ago on mirror moon although imo its prob more because it went through and activated inside of godhand again compatibility issues excalibur would be better against stuff with 1 life but caliburn would be better against stuff with multiple lives like how koujirou would be screwed against ranged attacks but haxed in melee btw found the nasu interview about saber vs archer assuming that he wasnt bsing The class of the representatives of close-range and long-range combat. Saber, who would take her sword in any condition whatsoever and Archer who would fight using a strategy of victory. The highlight won't just be the different battle styles, but the difference between their personalities. However, even with UBW, it's questionable whether he could hold Saber back. One definite hit from sniping and one absolute blast of death from her Holy Sword. It might really depend on the wit of their Masters not their own in determining who has the upper hand. |
BloodRequiemApr 30, 2012 6:51 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
Honako said: Saying Rin/Saber is strong is kinda pointless, Almost all servants would be amazing with Rin. Saber being strong with Rin is not very telling for how good Saber really is, seeing as how ANYONE with Rin is a monster. The fact of the matter is that Rin-Saber did happen. So if we go by everything in a character's arsenal, counting Rin-Saber is an accessible option in Saber's feats. Saber takes Heracles out with mid difficulty. If it's any master other than Rin, Heracles takes this in his tennis outfit. |
Kayaba-Apr 30, 2012 6:51 PM
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-Shuda- said: Honako said: Saying Rin/Saber is strong is kinda pointless, Almost all servants would be amazing with Rin. Saber being strong with Rin is not very telling for how good Saber really is, seeing as how ANYONE with Rin is a monster. The fact of the matter is that Rin-Saber did[/bold] happen. So if we go by everything in a character's arsenal, counting Rin-Saber is an accessible option in Saber's feats. Saber takes Heracles out with mid difficulty. only if excalibur can take him out before godhand develops resistance and keep in mind berserkers got better stats cept for luck and hes got battle continuation |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: only if excalibur can take him out before godhand develops resistance and keep in mind berserkers got better stats cept for luck and hes got battle continuation With A rank strength, Excalibur is not the only option for taking out his lives. Also, Berserker fights blinded with rage and has a somewhat predictable fighting approach. He demolishes everyone inferior to him with pure force without fail but when someone with comparable stats gets into the situation, it's not going to be so simple. Saber can pull off a victory with intellect and a bit of luck, especially with knowledge of his speed/strength first hand. It's not going to be easy but Nasu's line about Saber and Bazaka wasn't said for no reason. |
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-Shuda- said: BloodRequiem said: only if excalibur can take him out before godhand develops resistance and keep in mind berserkers got better stats cept for luck and hes got battle continuation With A rank strength, Excalibur is not the only option for taking out his lives. Also, Berserker fights blinded with rage and has a somewhat predictable fighting approach. He demolishes everyone inferior to him with pure force without fail but when someone with comparable stats gets into the situation, it's not going to be so simple. Saber can pull off a victory with intellect and a bit of luck, especially with knowledge of his speed/strength first hand. It's not going to be easy but Nasu's line about Saber and Bazaka wasn't said for no reason. she only has excalibur its not like she has shirou tracing stuff for her cuz this is a servant battle i lost trust in nasu's statements in UBW after archer survives being drained from tanking gae bolg, getting stabbed by shirou, getting GOBed, have enough prana to trace rho aias to help shirou, UBW a path for rin, and survive enough time to throw a knife at Gil and talk to rin all while not having a master to supply him with prana... nasu was probably smoking something (although if he went into town and ate a couple of people...) saber alter, true assassin, and the shadow all ganged up on hercules while he was protecting illya and he still managed to hold them off to some degree |
BloodRequiemApr 30, 2012 6:56 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: i lost trust in nasu's statements in UBW after archer survives being drained from tanking gae bolg, getting stabbed by shirou, getting GOBed, have enough prana to trace rho aias to help shirou, UBW a path for rin, and survive enough time to throw a knife at Gil and talk to rin all while not having a master to supply him with prana... nasu was probably smoking something (although if he went into town and ate a couple of people...) Haven't finished playing UBW route, so movie-only, but I always thought that bit was because of Emiya's nature as a Servant. Something to do with how he helps to avert world crises and stuff - rather than surviving everything, he shows up again because he's needed. Even so, Nasu was very likely smoking something since that's still major deux ex machina application. BloodRequiem said: excalibur was bounded by invisible air which made it into a rank c thats why it didnt scratch berserker caliburn is totally a deus ex machina anyways takeuchi prob begs nasu all the time to make his waifu haxed holy fire thing no idea heard it some years ago on mirror moon although imo its prob more because it went through and activated inside of godhand Forgot about InvisiAir. Given that explanation though, I imagine Excalibur could've done the same thing as Caliburn given that Saber had enough prana to use it, i.e. slice through God Hand and while inside, unleash attack of light and hax. |
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Honako said: Have you lost your mind? the question is NOT what master/servant combo that actually happened is the best, the question IS what servant is the best, Saber randomly getting a crazy epic master to give her a super stats boost is not a legitimate argument for her overall power as a servant. You seem new to the forums, word of advice, don't start your posts like that. Learn to appreciate others opinions and then express your own with logic and respect. Any ways, what you said is any servant is strong with Rin, which is true. However, Rin-Saber is still Saber and them pairing up increases her stats exponentially. There was no rule anywhere that said we are going by base stats so I assumed we can go by the peak of each character that has been shown in canon material. I stated that she can defeat berserker with Rin as her master but without it, the odds are against her. I'm not the first person to bring up a comparison of Saber with Rin, Kiritsugu or Shirou as her master in this discussion so my assumption was natural. |
Kayaba-May 1, 2012 12:18 AM
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sixplusone said: Strange enough I should have picked either saber/gilgamesh but then I ended up choosing berseker. Guess I really like his style lol. Pure strength, no strategy required and just everything comes straight out of his own abilities. His character stats is pretty much around the same level as gilgamesh and saber. Probably only lacking a little bit when it comes to his noble phantasm against both mentioned above, and would have got taken out by gilgamesh if he's serious enough. Not quite sure about the magic ability part in the character stats though (ranked C), but he's definitely one of the strongest in fate zero series. Otherwise I'd still have picked saber. Her ultimate noble phantasm is avalon which nullifies any incoming attacks as shown in FSN. Pretty OP offense already with excalibur, and then you have an OP defense to work with. GG for every other servant when they are combined. Shiro can take out archer in UBW lol. He really needs to be more serious, but I'm pretty sure he was serious enough given the fact he was about to die there, and then he still lost nonetheless. whos the strongest servant not who has the best style...if it were best style it'd prob go to GARcher (EMIYA) hercules could take lacelot out easily so that wasnt a very logical choice... in fact archer (EMIYA) would be a more logical choice than lancelot though still not the best saber cannot attack while she is using avalon in UBW archer went easy on shirou shirou cant beat any servants cept for prob Gil and thats with a combined effort of PIS and CIS plothax |
BloodRequiemMay 1, 2012 1:01 AM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
sixplusone said: Strange enough I should have picked either saber/gilgamesh but then I ended up choosing berseker. Guess I really like his style lol. Pure strength, no strategy required and just everything comes straight out of his own abilities. His character stats is pretty much around the same level as gilgamesh and saber. Probably only lacking a little bit when it comes to his noble phantasm against both mentioned above, and would have got taken out by gilgamesh if he's serious enough. Not quite sure about the magic ability part in the character stats though (ranked C), but he's definitely one of the strongest in fate zero series. Otherwise I'd still have picked saber. Her ultimate noble phantasm is avalon which nullifies any incoming attacks as shown in FSN. Pretty OP offense already with excalibur, and then you have an OP defense to work with. GG for every other servant when they are combined. Shiro can take out archer in UBW lol. He really needs to be more serious, but I'm pretty sure he was serious enough given the fact he was about to die there, and then he still lost nonetheless. I assume you only watched the UBW movie if you think that Shirou was stronger than Archer at that scene.or that he won because of skill... |
ssjokgMay 1, 2012 2:48 AM
sixplusone said: Strange enough I should have picked either saber/gilgamesh but then I ended up choosing berseker. Guess I really like his style lol. Pure strength, no strategy required and just everything comes straight out of his own abilities. His character stats is pretty much around the same level as gilgamesh and saber. Probably only lacking a little bit when it comes to his noble phantasm against both mentioned above, and would have got taken out by gilgamesh if he's serious enough. Not quite sure about the magic ability part in the character stats though (ranked C), but he's definitely one of the strongest in fate zero series. Otherwise I'd still have picked saber. Her ultimate noble phantasm is avalon which nullifies any incoming attacks as shown in FSN. Pretty OP offense already with excalibur, and then you have an OP defense to work with. GG for every other servant when they are combined. Shiro can take out archer in UBW lol. He really needs to be more serious, but I'm pretty sure he was serious enough given the fact he was about to die there, and then he still lost nonetheless. Excalibur has weak points. It's highly susceptible to friendly fire and collateral damage because of how it works and it requires charging and takes lots of mana to use even just once. Avalon is not so OP and honestly one of the worst EX rank Noble Phantasms. You can't be hit in it but you can't hit the enemy either, it just turns the fight into a quick draw competition and the mana it takes to use might cost you another attack with Excalibur. Something like say Ea which can destroy cities without problem and fire multiple times or Vasavi Shakti which is anti-god is just better not to mention the armor of Gilgamesh can endure attacks from various Noble Phantasms without costing loads of mana or hindering your actions. Archer is much stronger than Shirou and you probably haven't seen the VN if you don't think so. Archer was at about 10% power during their fight and he let Shirou stab him because he decided that in the end Shirou's ideal was beautiful even if it may be wrong. Even Shirou's win against Gilgamesh was plot armor and its been said that in 100 battles Gilgamesh would win 99, this is basically the one instance where every condition for Shirou's survival was met and otherwise he would have lost. |
-Shuda- said: Honako said: Have you lost your mind? the question is NOT what master/servant combo that actually happened is the best, the question IS what servant is the best, Saber randomly getting a crazy epic master to give her a super stats boost is not a legitimate argument for her overall power as a servant. You seem new to the forums, word of advice, don't start your posts like that. Learn to appreciate others opinions and then express your own with logic and respect. Any ways, what you said is any servant is strong with Rin, which is true. However, Rin-Saber is still Saber and them pairing up increases her stats exponentially. There was no rule anywhere that said we are going by base stats so I assumed we can go by the peak of each character that has been shown in canon material. I stated that she can defeat berserker with Rin as her master but without it, the odds are against her. I'm not the first person to bring up a comparison of Saber with Rin, Kiritsugu or Shirou as her master in this discussion so my assumption was natural. This. And it's not like we can actually know what other Servants' stats would be if they were with Rin... say if Gilgamesh had Rin instead of Tokiomi as his master, who's to say that his stats would even change? Also, someone reply to my post above. I'm feeling left out. |
ataraxialMay 1, 2012 7:20 AM
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ataraxial said: -Shuda- said: Honako said: Have you lost your mind? the question is NOT what master/servant combo that actually happened is the best, the question IS what servant is the best, Saber randomly getting a crazy epic master to give her a super stats boost is not a legitimate argument for her overall power as a servant. You seem new to the forums, word of advice, don't start your posts like that. Learn to appreciate others opinions and then express your own with logic and respect. Any ways, what you said is any servant is strong with Rin, which is true. However, Rin-Saber is still Saber and them pairing up increases her stats exponentially. There was no rule anywhere that said we are going by base stats so I assumed we can go by the peak of each character that has been shown in canon material. I stated that she can defeat berserker with Rin as her master but without it, the odds are against her. I'm not the first person to bring up a comparison of Saber with Rin, Kiritsugu or Shirou as her master in this discussion so my assumption was natural. This. And it's not like we can actually know what other Servants' stats would be if they were with Rin... say if Gilgamesh had Rin instead of Tokiomi as his master, who's to say that his stats would even change? Also, someone reply to my post above. I'm feeling left out. Gil with rin would prob be higher since rin is a better magus than tokiomi |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: Gil with rin would prob be higher since rin is a better magus than tokiomi Probably, but it's tough to know for sure. Regardless, Rin Saber vs. Tokiomi Gil is a fair comparison since they are magi of similar level. Shirou is useless, and Kiritsugu Saber should be compared with Kirei Gil since Kiritsugu specialized as a magus killer and not as a magus. |
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ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: Gil with rin would prob be higher since rin is a better magus than tokiomi Probably, but it's tough to know for sure. Regardless, Rin Saber vs. Tokiomi Gil is a fair comparison since they are magi of similar level. Shirou is useless, and Kiritsugu Saber should be compared with Kirei Gil since Kiritsugu specialized as a magus killer and not as a magus. the probably are similar even with Rin having more potential but it's still unfair for Saber. I dont mind putting the level of the masters in the comparison but we more or less change the discussion to the best team of Master Servant instead of just Servant. Cu Chulainn vs Diarmuid...what do you think? |
ssjokg said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: Gil with rin would prob be higher since rin is a better magus than tokiomi Probably, but it's tough to know for sure. Regardless, Rin Saber vs. Tokiomi Gil is a fair comparison since they are magi of similar level. Shirou is useless, and Kiritsugu Saber should be compared with Kirei Gil since Kiritsugu specialized as a magus killer and not as a magus. the probably are similar even with Rin having more potential but it's still unfair for Saber. I dont mind putting the level of the masters in the comparison but we more or less change the discussion to the best team of Master Servant instead of just Servant. Cu Chulainn vs Diarmuid...what do you think? Tie in fuyuki Ireland Cu Chulainn master + servant combo= shirou and saber unstoppable with that level of plothax...tracing one deus ex machina after another |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
ssjokg said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: Gil with rin would prob be higher since rin is a better magus than tokiomi Probably, but it's tough to know for sure. Regardless, Rin Saber vs. Tokiomi Gil is a fair comparison since they are magi of similar level. Shirou is useless, and Kiritsugu Saber should be compared with Kirei Gil since Kiritsugu specialized as a magus killer and not as a magus. the probably are similar even with Rin having more potential but it's still unfair for Saber. I dont mind putting the level of the masters in the comparison but we more or less change the discussion to the best team of Master Servant instead of just Servant. Cu Chulainn vs Diarmuid...what do you think? Would be awesome to see. I think Diarmuid would have an advantage (in Fuyuki) due to Gae Dearg being able to nullify both Gae Bolg attacks as long as he's agile enough to pull it off. Which he is. |
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BloodRequiem said: Tie in fuyuki Ireland Cu Chulainn master + servant combo= shirou and saber unstoppable with that level of plothax...tracing one deus ex machina after another I think that Cu Chulainn has more chances.He went through the same shit in UBW but still managed to give Kotomine a lesson and use his runes to burn the castle.And with the level of luck Diarmuid has(being a Lancer is hard) I doubt he would be able to dodge Gae Bolg. @ataraxial Being agile doesnt matter in dodging the spear of impaling death(or something) Saber is agile too but it was due to her luck and Instinct that she barely dodged. |
ssjokgMay 1, 2012 9:21 AM
ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: Tie in fuyuki Ireland Cu Chulainn master + servant combo= shirou and saber unstoppable with that level of plothax...tracing one deus ex machina after another I think that Cu Chulainn has more chances.He went through the same shit in UBW but still managed to give Kotomine a lesson and use his runes to burn the castle.And with the level of luck Diarmuid has(being a Lancer is hard) I doubt he would be able to dodge Gae Bolg. Not dodge, but touch with Gae Dearg to cancel out the effect. I agree it would be hard, but Cu Chulainn still has to get close in order to use Gae Bolg at all, so Diarmuid's A+ agility could pull it off. Runes would be ineffective against Diarmuid due to high Magic Resistance + Gae Dearg. As for the suicide thing, that's more due to plot than ability, in my opinion. Granted, Cu Chulainn is generally more GAR than Diarmuid, but Diarmuid can definitely match him and probably beat him in a battle. |
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| the rune thing was that he had the time to use them not that they would work against Diarmuid. He doesnt need to be close with his second technique it doesnt have the same effext bad it is strong And about stopping it with Gae Dearg.Isnt the only way for it to work just before Cu Chulainn thrusts?Isnt that the moment when the magic effect takes place?I see it the same way I see the fight with Caster.The monster was summoned with magic but Diarmuid had to pierce the book. Thats just speculation but I see the same thing in both cases. |
ssjokgMay 1, 2012 9:26 AM
ssjokg said: the rune thing was that he had the time to use them not that they would work against Diarmuid. He doesnt need to be close with his second technique And about stopping it with Gae Dearg.Isnt the only way for it to work just before Cu Chulainn thrusts?Isnt that the moment when the magic effect takes place?I see it the same way I see the fight with Caster.The monster was summoned with magic but Diarmuid had to pierce the book. Thats just speculation but I see the same thing in both cases. Since Gae Dearg cancels mana, I imagine he could just swing it at the anti-army Gae Bolg in defense. As for anti-unit Gae Bolg, yes, there would not be too much time in which he could cancel the attack, but Cu Chulainn has to fully commit to it in order for it to activate, which gives enough of an opening. Kind of like Saber's charge in Diarmuid vs. Saber at the port. Eye of the Mind (True) and A+ agility would allow Diarmuid to pull it off. |
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| I believe he can probably dodge it with his Eye of Mind but even EX agility is useless agiant Gae bolg so his agility doesnt matter.Using both EoM and agility wouldnt give Cu Chulainn a chance to use it which ,yeah, I accept. |
ssjokg said: I believe he can probably dodge it with his Eye of Mind but even EX agility is useless agiant Gae bolg so his agility doesnt matter.Using both EoM and agility wouldnt give Cu Chulainn a chance to use it which ,yeah, I accept. I meant that if Cu Chulainn commited to using Gae Bolg, there would be enough time while it activates (while saying "Gae Bolg" and getting close enough to Diarmuid) that Diarmuid could hit Gae Bolg with Gae Dearg to cancel the effect altogether before it fully activates. And then slice Cu Chulainn up with Gae Buidhe... I agree that Diarmuid could also just stay out of range via Eye of the Mind + agility if he needs to. |
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| Saber of course~ |
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| I think Cu Chulainn would beat Diarmuid regardless. If Lancer used Gae Bolg like he did vs Archer in UBW (throw it from a distance), I don't think there's much Diarmuid can do. |
Okaishi said: I think Cu Chulainn would beat Diarmuid regardless. If Lancer used Gae Bolg like he did vs Archer in UBW (throw it from a distance), I don't think there's much Diarmuid can do. Except Gae Dearg it. |
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ataraxial said: Okaishi said: I think Cu Chulainn would beat Diarmuid regardless. If Lancer used Gae Bolg like he did vs Archer in UBW (throw it from a distance), I don't think there's much Diarmuid can do. Except Gae Dearg it. The only way to know that is by watching them fight- kinda unlikely.It depends on whether Diarmuid can hit/touch the spear of striking death flight or not.I mean even with all the crazy stuff in nasuverse I dont remember any scene where someone stops a spear/arrow/sword tip with his own unlike many other anime(bleach,naruto etc) |
ssjokg said: the rune thing was that he had the time to use them not that they would work against Diarmuid. He doesnt need to be close with his second technique it doesnt have the same effext bad it is strong And about stopping it with Gae Dearg.Isnt the only way for it to work just before Cu Chulainn thrusts?Isnt that the moment when the magic effect takes place?I see it the same way I see the fight with Caster.The monster was summoned with magic but Diarmuid had to pierce the book. Thats just speculation but I see the same thing in both cases. the moment gae bolg's name is mentioned it has already pierced the heart so gae dearg wouldnt work however diarmuid can move out of its range like archer did in the prologue before cu chulainn says gae bolg cu chulainn with kirei is weak because kirei is not a good magus also he is bound by a command spell to go easy on servants in order to gather information with bazett...hes prob the 4th strongest servant |
BloodRequiemMay 1, 2012 10:32 AM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
Okaishi said: I think Cu Chulainn would beat Diarmuid regardless. If Lancer used Gae Bolg like he did vs Archer in UBW (throw it from a distance), I don't think there's much Diarmuid can do. the 1 he threw against archer was not the impaling heart version he used the anti army version thats why archer survived |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
ssjokg said: The only way to know that is by watching them fight- kinda unlikely.It depends on whether Diarmuid can hit/touch the spear of striking death flight or not.I mean even with all the crazy stuff in nasuverse I dont remember any scene where someone stops a spear/arrow/sword tip with his own unlike many other anime(bleach,naruto etc) He wouldn't have to hit the tip specifically since Gae Dearg would cancel out the magic behind the attack just by touching it. So all he'd have to do is pull a Zero Berserker, except he already has the weapon in his hand which would make it considerably easier. BloodRequiem said: ssjokg said: the rune thing was that he had the time to use them not that they would work against Diarmuid. He doesnt need to be close with his second technique it doesnt have the same effext bad it is strong And about stopping it with Gae Dearg.Isnt the only way for it to work just before Cu Chulainn thrusts?Isnt that the moment when the magic effect takes place?I see it the same way I see the fight with Caster.The monster was summoned with magic but Diarmuid had to pierce the book. Thats just speculation but I see the same thing in both cases. the moment gae bolg's name is mentioned it has already pierced the heart so gae dearg wouldnt work however diarmuid can move out of its range like archer did in the prologue before cu chulainn says gae bolg I don't think we can really say what would happen with Gae Dearg vs. Gae Bolg. My thoughts are that Gae Bolg wouldn't activate immediately - there is some time between starting to say its name and finishing it at the very least - which would be enough time for Gae Dearg to dispel the heart-piercing effect since it's fueled by mana. |
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BloodRequiem said: with bazett...hes prob the 4th strongest servant I think Nasu also stated that he would have won the 5th war if Bazett was his Master. |
ataraxial said: ssjokg said: The only way to know that is by watching them fight- kinda unlikely.It depends on whether Diarmuid can hit/touch the spear of striking death flight or not.I mean even with all the crazy stuff in nasuverse I dont remember any scene where someone stops a spear/arrow/sword tip with his own unlike many other anime(bleach,naruto etc) He wouldn't have to hit the tip specifically since Gae Dearg would cancel out the magic behind the attack just by touching it. So all he'd have to do is pull a Zero Berserker, except he already has the weapon in his hand which would make it considerably easier. BloodRequiem said: ssjokg said: the rune thing was that he had the time to use them not that they would work against Diarmuid. He doesnt need to be close with his second technique it doesnt have the same effext bad it is strong And about stopping it with Gae Dearg.Isnt the only way for it to work just before Cu Chulainn thrusts?Isnt that the moment when the magic effect takes place?I see it the same way I see the fight with Caster.The monster was summoned with magic but Diarmuid had to pierce the book. Thats just speculation but I see the same thing in both cases. the moment gae bolg's name is mentioned it has already pierced the heart so gae dearg wouldnt work however diarmuid can move out of its range like archer did in the prologue before cu chulainn says gae bolg I don't think we can really say what would happen with Gae Dearg vs. Gae Bolg. My thoughts are that Gae Bolg wouldn't activate immediately - there is some time between starting to say its name and finishing it at the very least - which would be enough time for Gae Dearg to dispel the heart-piercing effect since it's fueled by mana. its a causality reversing effect it cannot be blocked in ANY way other than moving out of range before it is activated or having an absurd amount of luck |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: with bazett...hes prob the 4th strongest servant I think Nasu also stated that he would have won the 5th war if Bazett was his Master. naw he will only be able to take prob 4 or 5 of hercules lives at most and fragarach wont work on hercules either... |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: its a causality reversing effect it cannot be blocked in ANY way other than moving out of range before it is activated or having an absurd amount of luck Right, but I'm not talking about after it gets activated. I'm talking about when it's in the process of activating. |
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ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: its a causality reversing effect it cannot be blocked in ANY way other than moving out of range before it is activated or having an absurd amount of luck Right, but I'm not talking about after it gets activated. I'm talking about when it's in the process of activating. the activation prana is in the words and the surrounding air itself not the spear so hitting the spear wont do anything plus their speeds are pretty equal not to mention that gae dearg needs to maintain constant contact |
BloodRequiemMay 1, 2012 10:45 AM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: its a causality reversing effect it cannot be blocked in ANY way other than moving out of range before it is activated or having an absurd amount of luck Right, but I'm not talking about after it gets activated. I'm talking about when it's in the process of activating. the activation prana is in the words itself not the spear so hitting the spear wont do anything plus their speeds are pretty equal Their speeds are most definitely not equal. A+ means that he can boost to be twice as fast as A for a short amount of time. Also, the thing about prana being in the words makes no sense. The spear is what's affected, so the effect can be canceled by touching it with Gae Dearg. Otherwise, Gae Dearg would not be an "anti-Noble Phantasm." |
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ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: its a causality reversing effect it cannot be blocked in ANY way other than moving out of range before it is activated or having an absurd amount of luck Right, but I'm not talking about after it gets activated. I'm talking about when it's in the process of activating. the activation prana is in the words itself not the spear so hitting the spear wont do anything plus their speeds are pretty equal Their speeds are most definitely not equal. A+ means that he can boost to be twice as fast as A for a short amount of time. Also, the thing about prana being in the words makes no sense. The spear is what's affected, so the effect can be canceled by touching it with Gae Dearg. Otherwise, Gae Dearg would not be an "anti-Noble Phantasm." gae dearg is not anti noble phantasm it simply cuts the flow of prana if it cannot touch prana then it wont do anything A+ is only under certain ideal conditions cu chulainn can boost with his runes as well |
BloodRequiemMay 1, 2012 10:51 AM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: gae dearg is not anti noble phantasm it simply cuts the flow of prana if it cannot touch prana then it wont do anything A+ is only under certain ideal conditions cu chulainn can boost with his runes as well "Anti-noble phantasm" is what it says on the wiki. Also, according to the wiki, Gae Bolg is "charged with prana" when using the anti-unit attack. Which means hitting it with Gae Dearg would cancel its effect if it could hit it while it's activating. Constant contact wouldn't be necessary once it gets canceled for a split second since Cu Chulainn would have to react in order to continue Gae Bolg - he'd probably have to say its name again at least. BloodRequiem said: ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: with bazett...hes prob the 4th strongest servant I think Nasu also stated that he would have won the 5th war if Bazett was his Master. naw he will only be able to take prob 4 or 5 of hercules lives at most and fragarach wont work on hercules either... Why wouldn't Fragarach work? Also, word of god on Cu Chulainn vs. Heracles: "Lancer can use his runes and Noble Phantasm together to temporarily raise the rank to A, but it'd still be a very disadvantageous fight but 'one with some chances.' " |
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ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: gae dearg is not anti noble phantasm it simply cuts the flow of prana if it cannot touch prana then it wont do anything A+ is only under certain ideal conditions cu chulainn can boost with his runes as well "Anti-noble phantasm" is what it says on the wiki. Also, according to the wiki, Gae Bolg is "charged with prana" when using the anti-unit attack. Which means hitting it with Gae Dearg would cancel its effect if it could hit it while it's activating. Constant contact wouldn't be necessary once it gets canceled for a split second since Cu Chulainn would have to react in order to continue Gae Bolg - he'd probably have to say its name again at least. BloodRequiem said: ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: with bazett...hes prob the 4th strongest servant I think Nasu also stated that he would have won the 5th war if Bazett was his Master. naw he will only be able to take prob 4 or 5 of hercules lives at most and fragarach wont work on hercules either... Why wouldn't Fragarach work? Also, word of god on Cu Chulainn vs. Heracles: "Lancer can use his runes and Noble Phantasm together to temporarily raise the rank to A, but it'd still be a very disadvantageous fight but 'one with some chances.' " gae dearg isnt anti noble phantasm... if anything it is anti magecraft it is not shown to affect any noble phantasms that is not coated with prana invisible air and lancelot's knight of honour pours prana on the outside of the noble phantasm while charging may mean that prana is within the noble phantasm if it cannot reach the prana flow then it will not do anything fragarach wont work because berserker doesnt have an ultimate attack that will trigger it some chances- assassin has chances against Gil too, yes a prana enforced spit can even damage him but is it likely? not really word of god cannot always be trusted case in point UBW also tsukihime where shiki slices arcueid 17 times in the blink of an eye more of a figure of speech feat wise no way we cant just assume that hercules will stand around and do nothing hercules has way better stats than cu chulainn and it is extremely unlikely that gae bolg will be able to kill berserker all 12 times before it develops immunity godhand can be regenerated as well |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: gae dearg is not anti noble phantasm it simply cuts the flow of prana if it cannot touch prana then it wont do anything A+ is only under certain ideal conditions cu chulainn can boost with his runes as well "Anti-noble phantasm" is what it says on the wiki. Also, according to the wiki, Gae Bolg is "charged with prana" when using the anti-unit attack. Which means hitting it with Gae Dearg would cancel its effect if it could hit it while it's activating. Constant contact wouldn't be necessary once it gets canceled for a split second since Cu Chulainn would have to react in order to continue Gae Bolg - he'd probably have to say its name again at least. BloodRequiem said: ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: with bazett...hes prob the 4th strongest servant I think Nasu also stated that he would have won the 5th war if Bazett was his Master. naw he will only be able to take prob 4 or 5 of hercules lives at most and fragarach wont work on hercules either... Why wouldn't Fragarach work? Also, word of god on Cu Chulainn vs. Heracles: "Lancer can use his runes and Noble Phantasm together to temporarily raise the rank to A, but it'd still be a very disadvantageous fight but 'one with some chances.' " gae dearg isnt anti noble phantasm... if anything it is anti magecraft it is not shown to affect any noble phantasms that is not coated with prana invisible air and lancelot's knight of honour pours prana on the outside of the noble phantasm while charging may mean that prana is within the noble phantasm if it cannot reach the prana flow then it will not do anything fragarach wont work because berserker doesnt have an ultimate attack that will trigger it some chances- assassin has chances against Gil too, yes a prana enforced spit can even damage him but is it likely? not really word of god cannot always be trusted case in point UBW also tsukihime where shiki slices arcueid 17 times in the blink of an eye more of a figure of speech feat wise no way we cant just assume that hercules will stand around and do nothing hercules has way better stats than cu chulainn and it is extremely unlikely that gae bolg will be able to kill berserker all 12 times before it develops immunity godhand can be regenerated as well Point is that Gae Dearg would cut off prana flow to Gae Bolg, rendering the attack useless. Being "charged with prana" sounds very much like Knight of Honor spreading prana throughout an object to Noble Phantasmize it, so there's no justification for asserting that the prana would only be "within it." Anyways, I was agreeing with you about Cu Chulainn vs. Heracles. Calm your tits. |
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| Well ofc Gilgamesh is the strongest... I mean this isnt even a discussion... But Lancelot is cooler than all :P |
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