wakka9ca said: RedSuisei said: Onibokusu said: Makes no sense to me. Even back when I was 4 years old I had no problem recognizing Japanese foods from anime. And that's more than 10 years before I started to know more about Japanese.That makes no sense to you? Makes perfect sense to me. As the only anime licensor that still practises Americanisation, they simply switched a rice ball to a sandwhich, as a sandwich is going to be more recognisable than a rice ball. If I were a kid and I was watching that scene where the rice ball rolled down the hill, I probably would have thought it was a snow ball. It's exactly the same as when they subbed out the words 'rice ball' for 'doughnut' back in the early episodes of the Indigo League. Onibokusu just likes to argue with people, trying make prove the superiority of his knowledge and opinion :/ Judging by his track record around the forums I have to agree with you. He's arguing just for the sake of it. Trying to excuse blatant unneeded americanization is sad. I'm fine with localization, even if it is a little liberal. Editing the show itself to make it look more "american" though, that's when you cross the line. |
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Onibokusu said: Red, you are aware you live in Indonesia, right? And you live in Australia, so? |
| Great, now we wouldn't have to put up with anymore of these bad dubs, censor cuts and westernizing of their original names. And who would wanna look for the uncut in English version? It's still better to watch in Japanese with subs. |
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Onibokusu said: And you're one of those U.S. Children? We're talking about U.S. Children here. Anyway, if a 4 year old kid from a developing country is smart enough to easily recognize foreign cultures, then I don't see why kids from U.S. is not smart enough to. |
Onibokusu said: No, I'm just more informed about the company than alexcampos. That knowledge gives me no reason to hate 4kids. Whoa...that dude wasn't talking about me, he was talking about you...why did I get thrown into it. Anyways, that's fine you may be more informed, but that doesn't mean you're right on this issue. Onibokusu said: That's what happens when people who don't know what 'uncut' means don't buy the DVDs, due to them discounting the release due to the 4kids logo being on it. Oh well, that's what happens when your company gets a BAD track record....no one will trust them to do something good. It's like the boy that cried wolf, naturally no one believed him when he actually told the truth.....no one will believe 4kids when they actually attempted to do something good. |
| Anything bad that happens to 4kids is a good thing. |
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| ....and on that day, not a single fuck was given. |
| People do know that 4Kids isn't gone right? they filed for Chapter 11 not Chapter 7. They are trying to attempt to bring back what they had and try to get rid of it but they aren't gone.....everyone here hasn't read the whole thing thoroughly have they? places like Blockbuster filed for Chapter 11 but couldn't recover so they had to file for a Chapter 7 so now they are going to be gone. 4Kids on the other hand is still going to be active for a while unless they don't gain any profit. ( If i'm wrong sorry for my ignorance) |
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Onibokusu said: Of course not, but neither are you. I wasn't aware being informed about something related in any way to how smart one is. The 'rice ball' isn't at all common in the USA. Obviously the kids are going to know it's not of their culture. Is it from another culture? Is so, what culture? Who's going to tell them? Is it completely made up? Is it something only grown-ups eat? Is it even food? Oh please, so you can give your opinion on this even though you're not American, but I can't? And you think rice ball is common here? First time I see a real, edible rice ball was when I was in middle school, in a local anime con. Yet I have no problem recognizing it as a Japanese food when I see it on TV years before I see the real thing. |
Leon-Gun said: Editing the show itself to make it look more "american" though, that's when you cross the line. Exactly....and I'm saying this as an AMERICAN! I don't like to see Americanization or any other bastardization of original material, I also CRINGE when I hear a Japanese song with HORRIBLE ENGRISH. Everyone should just stick to what they know, if you can't speak English, then DON'T...if you can't speak Japanese....then DON'T. Dubs are OK...but keep the ORIGINAL MATERIAL!!! YGO was set in JAPAN....it doesn't make sense to pretend it's America, it doesn't make sense to give the characters American names....and it doesn't make sense to edit the whole damn series the way they did. |
--ALEX--Apr 6, 2011 11:32 PM
| NOOOOOO I don't want these epic trolls to go out of business what will I laugh and point at now?? *Looks at all the other non-surprising posts* lol they trollin' while we hatin' In all seriousness I still feel for the people who are going to loose their jobs just because the higherups did something stupid in the past. |
"What has two arms, two legs, and is alive? Not your favorite character lol! xD" |
| They only wanted kids to be exposed to American culture... :| |
RedSuisei said: Onibokusu said: Of course not, but neither are you. I wasn't aware being informed about something related in any way to how smart one is. The 'rice ball' isn't at all common in the USA. Obviously the kids are going to know it's not of their culture. Is it from another culture? Is so, what culture? Who's going to tell them? Is it completely made up? Is it something only grown-ups eat? Is it even food? Oh please, so you can give your opinion on this even though you're not American, but I can't? And you think rice ball is common here? First time I see a real, edible rice ball was when I was in middle school, in a local anime con. Yet I have no problem recognizing it as a Japanese food when I see it on TV years before I see the real thing. um yeah I didn't even know what a rice ball was until I started to watch different Anime besides the ones that were on T.V. which was when I was around 14 and the average person would probably not know what a rice ball is (they would probably just think they are eating a clump of rice with nothing else besides that)....actually they would probably think that Anime is the equivalent to a cartoon. |
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alexcampos said: Leon-Gun said: Editing the show itself to make it look more "american" though, that's when you cross the line. Exactly....and I'm saying this as an AMERICAN! I don't like to see Americanization or any other bastardization of original material, I also CRINGE when I hear a Japanese song with HORRIBLE ENGRISH. Everyone should just stick to what they know, if you can't speak English, then DON'T...if you can't speak Japanese....then DON'T. Dubs are OK...but keep the ORIGINAL MATERIAL!!! YGO was set in JAPAN....it doesn't make sense to pretend it's America, it doesn't make sense to give the characters American names....and it doesn't make sense to edit the whole damn series the way they did. What the heck? People wouldn't be able to be diverse in languages then. I live a french city but only 60% is french and 30% is english (10% other languages) and there are people with really bad french accents when they speak english but its also the same vice versa so if they want to they can. Also i'm pretty sure that Ryou Bakura,Marik,Ishizu, Seto Kaiba, Mokuba and Yami Yugi or Yugi Mutou aren't at all common english names. So they didn't change everything. Also kids in the U.S. would probably have preferred it changed to an American type setting because when I watched and I played the card game with my friends when I was like 8- 11 I pictured dueling in the streets to be kinda cool but If it was in Japan or Egypt all the time.... it would kind of change that |
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Onibokusu said: Of course you can give your opinion, but using yourself as an example just doesn't work here. It'd be like me saying that smart American kids should easily be able to recognise what cordial is, despite them having slim to nill chance of being exposed to it previously. Rice is a huge thing in Indonesia, so your ability to pick out 'hey, that's a ball of rice' makes a lot of sense. We're talking about kids that grew up in the USA. They're more likely to think it's an ice cream, rather than a ball of rice (no, that wasn't some kind of obesity joke). You do realize you gave yourself as an example too, no? Let me quote this again: Onibokusu said: And really, yours aren't even something you even experienced yourself, it's just your speculation of what you might have thought when you were a kid. Really, stop thinking your opinion is superior to all others, because it isn't.That makes no sense to you? Makes perfect sense to me. As the only anime licensor that still practises Americanisation, they simply switched a rice ball to a sandwhich, as a sandwich is going to be more recognisable than a rice ball. If I were a kid and I was watching that scene where the rice ball rolled down the hill, I probably would have thought it was a snow ball. It's exactly the same as when they subbed out the words 'rice ball' for 'doughnut' back in the early episodes of the Indigo League. Of course, because the rice balls in old anime really look a lot like real rice. It's not years later til I know that 'Onigiri' (yes, they never translate Onigiri to Indonesian) was made of rice. Yet, I still have no problem accepting them as 'Onigiri,' a kind of food that (seems to be, at least that's what I thought back then) common in Japan. American kids aren't capable of accepting foreign cultures like that? And, I need to get back to work, so have fun thinking something to reply my post. |
rpn101 said: What the heck? People wouldn't be able to be diverse in languages then. I live a french city but only 60% is french and 30% is english (10% other languages) and there are people with really bad french accents when they speak english but its also the same vice versa so if they want to they can. I wasn't talking about learning another language or being diverse... I was talking about PRETENDING you know another language. For example....why do so many people HATE Weeaboos....simple, because they PRETEND to be Japanese, they bastardize the Japanese language and culture. As an anime fan I have a good appreciation for the Japanese culture, but that doesn't mean I'm going to start eating my food with chop sticks or start to say stupid sayings like "Baka" or "Neko" or "desu".... In the same context.....it's fucking stupid to have so many idols PRETEND they know English, it's not so much that they are BUTCHERING the language but their "sentences" wouldn't make sense to a kid much less an adult who knows English. I'm all for learning new languages (I'm Bilingual BTW)....but not PRETENDING to know another language. |
| @Onibokusu Pardon me. Can't help but reading ur previous posts and it sounds as if you're trying to defend this company so much. Yes, its no laughing matter when companies get into troble and people start losing their jobs and all (ok so maybe they're not doing that bad yet in this case). Still, I dont believe 4kids, which has ruined some originality of the content by alternating it to make it more appropriate for it's own culture and different age group, should be supported just for that. |
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| Well that's a bit of a shame. 4Kids was the whole reason I came to love Anime, it introduced a lot of us to it. I guess no more Pokemon? My nieces and nephews will be crying if that happens. :( Now, I got to admit, I don't like some things about 4Kids, like how they change japanese foods, words or names to english american things. Like Tokyo Mew Mew...main character's name Ichigo to Zoe... yeah, that was like a wtf to me. Pokemon's Ash from Satoshi... Of course, it is mainly aimed to kids, so I'm not complaining that they censored some things for the kids. But still. In another topic involved in this one, What's the difference between YG uncut and the 4kids version? |
| i hope they wont come back.. *trollface* |
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Onibokusu said: Black_Rose1089 said: In another topic involved in this one, What's the difference between YG uncut and the 4kids version? The uncut version has a re-written script, the original Japanese names, the original Japanese musical score and the original opening and ending themes. Oh cool! Is it only for the first seasons or the later ones? |
herox3 said: RedSuisei said: American kids aren't capable of accepting foreign cultures like that? Unfortunately, as far as I can see, no. And yes, I live in the U.S. The U.S. may be the most culturally diverse nation in the world, but people are so individualistic here. I see racial pride everywhere, and many are unwilling to accept things that aren't culturally identical as theirs. But again, this is far as what I can see from an Asian minority. I kinda agree with you Herox3. But I do think kids are capable if you teach them about it. For example, I have 5 nieces and nephews. All american, all mexican-american decedent. They watch all the kid cartoons and shows on tv, disney channel, nick, etc. Now because of me, a anime fan, I taught them about the okatu and japanese culture. When they were small, I let them watch pokemon, tokyo mew mew, yu gi oh. Becuase of me, they know what an rice ball is, what the japanese stuff is, they know the names of the character's in japanese, because I taught them. The point of this is that if you don't give the kids a chance to learn something, they won't know it. Yeah there's some kids aren't open to learn a different culture, but some kids are really open minded. |
Onibokusu said: Black_Rose1809 said: Onibokusu said: Black_Rose1089 said: In another topic involved in this one, What's the difference between YG uncut and the 4kids version? The uncut version has a re-written script, the original Japanese names, the original Japanese musical score and the original opening and ending themes. Oh cool! Is it only for the first seasons or the later ones? It's only for part-way through the first season. They stopped once they saw they weren't profiting from it. It was one of the first things they partnered with FUNimation to produce. Ooh! Can you find it online? I want to watch it! :3 |
| Concerning riceballs. Before I started watching Anime or even knew anything about Japan, I made riceballs a lot in pre-school and kindergarten. Not just by myself. My American teachers would make us make them for projects, all of which were not related to Japan. Since when do riceballs have to only be common in Japan? (Sure, they are popular in Japan but not exclusive!) I am from America, always have been, and I can honestly say that riceballs were very common among everyone I've ever known here. I'm sure you, Onibokusu, willl say something about me not being "American" enough or whatever based on your large ego; but seriously, riceballs were not rare in America! Unless you lived under a rock of course. =] |
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Nlayer said: Concerning riceballs. Before I started watching Anime or even knew anything about Japan, I made riceballs a lot in pre-school and kindergarten. Not just by myself. My American teachers would make us make them for projects, all of which were not related to Japan. Since when do riceballs have to only be common in Japan? (Sure, they are popular in Japan but not exclusive!) I am from America, always have been, and I can honestly say that riceballs were very common among everyone I've ever known here. I'm sure you, Onibokusu, willl say something about me not being "American" enough or whatever based on your large ego; but seriously, riceballs were not rare in America! Unless you lived under a rock of course. =] That's cool! I never did that at my schools... I'm guessing where you live. I mean, I'm from Texas... so I really don't know. :3 |
Onibokusu said: Black_Rose1809 said: The point of this is that if you don't give the kids a chance to learn something, they won't know it. Yeah there's some kids aren't open to learn a different culture, but some kids are really open minded. Of course, but do you consider ten seconds of rice ball footage really enough time to teach a kid about a food item from another culture? If a Japanese kid is entitled to being able to think 'hey look, that funny man's angry because he thinks Satoshi took his rice ball', then an American kid should just as easily be able to think 'hey look, that funny man's angry because he thinks Ash took his sandwich'. It was a comedic scene that lasted 10 seconds. And I'm not aware of where you might be able to watch the uncut episode online, but I do know you can buy the uncut volumes from Amazon.com. Oh yeah 10 secs is not enough, but you can explain it to the kid when he/she is watching it. That's what I did most of the time with my nieces and nephews, and I even taught them how to make it. So now when we watch a anime that shows some pretty tasty food, I make it for them. You got to think, it's up to the family of the children to want the kids to understand a different culture. That sucks... oh well. It's the same thing I'm sure, just different words, right? |
Black_Rose1809Apr 7, 2011 12:29 AM
| I am from Texas as well actually. :D |
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Nlayer said: I am from Texas as well actually. :D lol, well then you are pretty lucky to done those things. xD |
Onibokusu said: Good job at understanding pretty much nothing I've posted. Thank you. I'm pretty good when responding to trolls. ;) |
NlayerApr 7, 2011 12:33 AM
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Onibokusu said: Black_Rose1809 said: Oh yeah 10 secs is not enough, but you can explain it to the kid when he/she is watching it. That's what I did most of the time with my nieces and nephews, and I even taught them how to make it. So now when we watch a anime that shows some pretty tasty food, I make it for them. That sucks... oh well. It's the same thing I'm sure, just different words, right? Naturally, but 4kids is just trying to convey the situation and the subject matter. No licensor is trying to be a teacher, the only difference being 4kids' demographic. The easiest, simplest way possible to convey that scene was to remove the rice ball entirely and replace it with a recognisable food item. Pretty much. Yeah true. I'm just glad they are bringing anime to the US, without them,I wouldn't be here in this forum discussing anime with people. xD I just wish they kept the names in tact though. I mean, Satoshi isn't as hard to pronounce as Ash. I know they want to kids to understand it, but it's not much a difference to change the names as it is for the food. Then no worries for me then! :3 I have seen some uncut anime from Pokemon, pretty sad they cut some out. |
| So they file for bankruptcy and don't have to pay the Japanese a cent? Damn they're good |
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Onibokusu said: Nlayer said: Thank you. I'm pretty good when responding to trolls. ;) Um, yeah. I'm not trolling. What you failed to understand is that people like you are the exception, not the rule. To think the entirety of the USA is exactly the same situation like you is ignorance at its highest level. I never once rejected the idea of kids recognising a rice ball, however its more likely that they won't know what a rice ball is. Is it not ignorance on your part for thinking the opposite of what I think? I mean, who is right in this situation? You say it is the minority who has been exposed to riceballs, but where do you get your source of information from? It sounds like you are just making assumptions to me. Just like we all have, one could say. The reason I feel that you are a troll, which I could totally be wrong about, is because you keep arguing about riceballs. Does it really matter why they changed it? Maybe 4kids just didn't like riceballs, even though that sounds ridiculous. Will we ever really truly know for a fact why they changed it? If they did not specifically state why they changed it, then everything is labeled as assumptions! |
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Nlayer said: Onibokusu said: Nlayer said: Thank you. I'm pretty good when responding to trolls. ;) Um, yeah. I'm not trolling. What you failed to understand is that people like you are the exception, not the rule. To think the entirety of the USA is exactly the same situation like you is ignorance at its highest level. I never once rejected the idea of kids recognising a rice ball, however its more likely that they won't know what a rice ball is. Is it not ignorance on your part for thinking the opposite of what I think? I mean, who is right in this situation? You say it is the minority who has been exposed to riceballs, but where do you get your source of information from? It sounds like you are just making assumptions to me. Just like we all have, one could say. The reason I feel that you are a troll, which I could totally be wrong about, is because you keep arguing about riceballs. Does it really matter why they changed it? Maybe 4kids just didn't like riceballs, even though that sounds ridiculous. Will we ever really truly know for a fact why they changed it? If they did not specifically state why they changed it, then everything is labeled as assumptions! Well, because what they say is partially true. Not a lot of people know what a rice ball is. When I was in high school, my anime club had a banner with an rice ball on it, people asked us what it was, thought it was a snowball. I don't know what part of Texas you are from, but here where I am from, only the anime fans know what it is or the Japanese who live here. (There aren't many here, to tell you.) The Asian markets sell them, but not a lot of people buy them. It's because it's not from our country, we won't know it. Kids are pretty much shown american things, not from other cultures, unless they are from other cultures themselves. So you are both right and wrong, because it mainly depends on the people where they live. If you live in an Asian influenced place, of course you'll know what things are, but if you are not from an area like that, then you won''t know what it is. I didn't know what an rice ball was until in High school. |
| just felt like posting this... |
herox3 said: Nlayer said: Is it not ignorance on your part for thinking the opposite of what I think? I mean, who is right in this situation? You say it is the minority who has been exposed to riceballs, but where do you get your source of information from? It sounds like you are just making assumptions to me. Just like we all have, one could say. The reason I feel that you are a troll, which I could totally be wrong about, is because you keep arguing about riceballs. Does it really matter why they changed it? Maybe 4kids just didn't like riceballs, even though that sounds ridiculous. Will we ever really truly know for a fact why they changed it? If they did not specifically state why they changed it, then everything is labeled as assumptions! It was not actually him who began the riceball discussion if you were to go back and read the previous pages... Anyway, it's just an example for editing an anime when adapting; a source for a general discussion about editing. OT: Thanks, Onibokusu, you wasted an hour of my essay time... I just spent it on your Youtube channel ._. I do like your reviews though So true.. I know what you mean... I end up doing something else instead of homework.. xD |
| Man, people here need to calm down. Some people like 4Kids, some people don't, some people don't give a damn one way or another. You can't deny that as a company they introduced a number of anime into the mainstream market, and that many of us grew up watching their dubs because of this. You also can't deny that they made a lot of changes to these anime that weren't entirely necessary (to avoid the riceball argument for the time being, things such as removing ENGLISH text off of some objects). For better or worse these are facts, and cannot be changed. I personally don't like the company and will be quite happy if they do cease to exist (though it's unfortunate for the employees who have done nothing wrong). Innecessary (IMO) changes to culture displayed stops children asking questions to find out what that thing they don't recognise is, this can lead to close mindedness due to lack of exposure. Edits made to One Piece when they had it made me severely dislike the series, it wasn't until sometime later I realised it was a 4Kids dub and read the manga, which I loved. Similarly with Yu-Gi-Oh, editing out things like violence and blood is fair enough, to an extent. But changing the setting to America, changing a harmless converstion about accessories into a dramatic "we've got to find the truth" conversation? Really? I need to go get ready for college now, but I wish I had time to write more. OTL TL;DR I don't like 4Kids, but there are valid reasons some people do. Deal with it. |
| ....Bummer. |
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Hisuiryu said: Man, people here need to calm down. Some people like 4Kids, some people don't, some people don't give a damn one way or another. You can't deny that as a company they introduced a number of anime into the mainstream market, and that many of us grew up watching their dubs because of this. You also can't deny that they made a lot of changes to these anime that weren't entirely necessary (to avoid the riceball argument for the time being, things such as removing ENGLISH text off of some objects). For better or worse these are facts, and cannot be changed. I personally don't like the company and will be quite happy if they do cease to exist (though it's unfortunate for the employees who have done nothing wrong). Innecessary (IMO) changes to culture displayed stops children asking questions to find out what that thing they don't recognise is, this can lead to close mindedness due to lack of exposure. Edits made to One Piece when they had it made me severely dislike the series, it wasn't until sometime later I realised it was a 4Kids dub and read the manga, which I loved. Similarly with Yu-Gi-Oh, editing out things like violence and blood is fair enough, to an extent. But changing the setting to America, changing a harmless converstion about accessories into a dramatic "we've got to find the truth" conversation? Really? I need to go get ready for college now, but I wish I had time to write more. OTL TL;DR I don't like 4Kids, but there are valid reasons some people do. Deal with it. Well what it seems to me is what we are arguing about. Which is that the reason they changed the things in the shows. And why. Others complain about it though. 4Kids was important , for the same reason you said , because it introduced us to anime. |
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