Fate/kaleid liner Prisma☆Illya 3rei!! Chapter 43 Discussion

kei78 said:
Team gold thème from fate extella also suits Well to the fight. Well Emiya is in gold team anyway

SherouOfJustice said:

Using a remix of Nero's theme during Unlimited Blade Works instead of Emiya. lolwut

kei78 said:

An no version so far surpass kenji Kawai version
But maybe miyuverse version can transcend it...

Fai said:
Hiroyama just schooled UfoUBW. THIS is what happens when you let Gil get a range advantage. You get destroyed.

Overall this fight is easily on the level of UBW route fight. And WE ACTUALLY SEE ACTUAL space fight of countless swords. Shirou does not just go "muh ! Muh! Muh!" with K&B smashing stuff away. FUCK YEA.

I can't wait till Silverlink Adapts it into Fate/Kaleid Liner☆Prisma Illya 3rei⚔Schwert

AllenNoah said:

Pretty sure you mean the Ea advantage, as Shirou was pretty decisively schooling her both in close and long range until Flash Air and Ea came into play.

astroprogs said:

Not even Shoujo Shinka for you?

Dygenguar said:
So what kind of Shirou is this? Only know UWB shirou. He seems like UWB but more.

Also watching fate kaleid and the animation is kinda "meh" with the 3D. Well at least it's not stall long ufotoble

Dygenguar said:
So what kind of Shirou is this? Only know UWB shirou. He seems like UWB but more.

Also watching fate kaleid and the animation is kinda "meh" with the 3D. Well at least it's not stall long ufotoble

Devil_Slayer said:

Yeah shirou was kicking her ass before she used Flash Air which did make her some time to pull Ea and even then Shirou tanked Ea even though run out of manga in middle of it

AllenNoah said:

Pretty sure you mean the Ea advantage, as Shirou was pretty decisively schooling her both in close and long range until Flash Air and Ea came into play.

Fai said:


No way in hell it was even close to the full power EA. Its quite obvious Angelica just used it to destroy the RM, as shown by the fact that he was not killed afterward and instead imprisoned. Ainsworths view themselves as good guys, remember?



Not really. The moment Shirou lost the push advantage b being displaced, the fight went to be a lot more even(because Shirou could keep up with ridiculous shit without exploding, unlike normal non-buffed shirou) and then got EA'd.

and this is shirou with mana from Miyu, so normal shirou would die the moment he would go ranged. Because normal Gil is a LOT better at using his powers and A LOT better fighter. The mistake was the interruption of the push, which allowed Angelica to counter-attack instead of defending. She countered with EA but normal Gil would have dozens of way to counter normal-shirou the moment he goes ranged.

ZeroOmega said:

First, of course he needs prana support, dude already fought and destroyed 7 motherfucjinng servant install users in the same night, hell I bet there hasn't been 8 hours during the whole war and obviously he hadn't got a single rest during that time. Not to mention Angelica obviously got very large amount of prana pool.

Second thing, I will ask you then, enlighten me, with all of the feats of Gilgamesh using GoB during F/sn, F/ha, F/sf, F/extra and F/extra CCC and even F/go that involves not using Ea and Enkidu, how in the world that Gilgamesh shown to use it better than what Angelica did? You know, involving not just shooting thousands of NPs to other mongrels? Hell even Prillya Gil did much better versatiliy using GoB than any other incarnations but still just involving shooting NP and defending using shield phantasms(which Angelica does the same).
Mentioning that inside UBW was always shown to be one step faster and outguns GoB shooting ability and that was still UBW Shirou(which is weaker than Miyu Shirou) with Tohsaka's prana, not to mention the only prana cost of using UBW was its materialization and maintainting it and shooting and tracing inside it cost no prana, that the only way for any Gilgamesh to have a chance to destroy it was using Ea, and any other NP he uses will always be countered by its fake copy. Hell not including his astronomical level of Ego, being his defining trait he got, that hinders his ability to take the mongrel seriously, which Angelica rarely shown during their fight but still was having a hard time against him. So how?

Fai said:
Gil does not need GOB to completely destroy Shirou in a fight

He is still a heroic spirit. He is still a trained fighter above most of humanity. He is better with weapons even if he never wielded them before. Shirou is a relatively normal guy from contemporary era, although with very well trained body. Gilgamesh is one of humanity's strongest and best from the times of best of humanity.

The moment Gil gets a chance to attack back, Shirou is screwed. That is the logic on why UBW fight is literally all about Shirou doing everything to preventing Gil doing anything but defending. If Gil gets a chance to even swing his sword back, Shirou is screwed. It would end like their encounter in fate route.

As for Angelica - Angelica is using a card. She might have been "hollowed out" to be a vessel, but that's still not close to a proper servant vessel in terms of incarnation. She is still someone else using his powers. And as shown in Gil vs Angelica fight, the real one is far more efficient with it.

EA is simply easiest way to do it. If proper Shirou went ranged against proper Gil, he could just don the armor(which would limit what is effective against him in the first place) and actually counter attack, which would take away Shirou's only advantage.

The same applies to a buffed Shirou - the measure and the response needed is bigger, but the mistake is the same - giving Gil range to formulate a response. The moment GIl can respond its over.

Devil_Slayer said:
Fappa love to hype Gil's even though he one of the most overpower character i ever saw "talking about the series itself "

Shirou with UBW > Gil with GoB
he beat Gil in both long and close range as he can spam sword faster and with more quantity than Gil the actually Gil would have got his ass owned by kaleid shirou even harder than fsn shirou , sine he don't have Flash air and too much of arrgont to go all out until he relazie he is truely begin pushed back and even then he is helpless againt UBW

shirou cast UBW againt Gil = the match is over unless Gil somehow draw Ea

Fai said:


Nope. Shirou himself states that the moment he would let Gil counter-attack he would be dead.

UBW is only good at cancelling GOB. It does not help Shirou deal with fightinng an actual heroic spirit.

Shirou even with mana from Miyu was barely holding his own the moment he lost the push advantage here.

Fai said:


Nope. Shirou himself states that the moment he would let Gil counter-attack he would be dead.

UBW is only good at cancelling GOB. It does not help Shirou deal with fightinng an actual heroic spirit.

Shirou even with mana from Miyu was barely holding his own the moment he lost the push advantage here.

ZeroOmega said:

Shirou actually GAVE Gil the time to counterattack, where he was able to distance himself to Shirou when his hand was chopped, what did he do to that opportunity? Ran like a bitch and tries to retrieve Ea.
WTF are you saying? We are talking about Gil here, someone who never felt the harshness of melee fighting, someone who relies solely on his treasury by shooting NPs to his enemies, never felt any drive to improve himself, and lacking tactical mind, any form of battle instincts, distinct fighting style and techniques that many heroic spirits have, not to mention he is in Archer class, someone who excels in range combat but always sucks in melee. So removing his bread and butter power being GoB will cripple him greatly.
No, read the chapter again, Shirou was on the offensive and was winning before the flash air suprise defense by Angelica, and the fact that Angelica needed to use Ig-alima and Sul-sagana to use Ea in a safe distance(she was flying or in mid air) because using lower ranked NP would be useless at stalling him. Maybe you lack the reading comprehension to understand that in-your-face literal context shown?

CerberusGate said:

To clarify, Gil is still a Heroic Spirit. He has stronger physical abilities when compared a human (even if the human is someone like Shirou). Most humans in the Nasuverse are unable to fight a Heroic Spirit head on so if a focused and calm Gil actually clashed with Shirou in a proper sword fight, the fight would not end well for any Shirou (even this one). There is a reason why Iskandar was doomed once he gained Gil's respect; Gil would take Iskandar seriously in a fight and would actually think during the fight (hence he obliged with using Ea against the Ionian Hetairoi).

@Fai is explaining with established Nasuverse rules (and could clarify any errors I state here). Yes this chapter was epic but this does not mean that this Shirou is suddenly stronger than any Gil. Hype should not cloud one's ability to perceive someone. It has always been established that Shirou can't fight a focused Gil, which is why in VN's UBW, Shirou keeps him unfocused and off-balanced to finish him off quickly.

ZeroOmega said:

Corrections, We are talking about Servant Gilgamesh not Heroic Spirit one. That OUTDATED rule? MOST humans don't have magic, stats nor conceptual weapons to hurt them which Shirou got access to all. Higher physical strength=/=instant win don't bring your power level bullshit in Nasuverse, Kuzuki was able to trash Saber with just reinforcement magic while Shirou was able to defend himself against him even with shitty projections(read:only copies the weapon and too brittle to be practical). Yes, maybe, but we never seen them fight a proper swordfight and the fact that its is a first person narration not omniscient narrator. Shirou's tracing not only replicates the weapon but also its wielder's techniques and STATS but degraded to a degree, raising his STATS and combat ability to servant levels. Why in the world you think that Gil could actually compete in pure swordfight with MiyuShirou who just shown feats and techniques greater than other incarnations that Gil cannot possibly match without GoB, not to mention his melee skills is only mediocre compared to most servants, or can you show me an instance Gil destroy a servant with pure sword skills that is on par with MiyuShirou without GoB help? Flash news, I never said that ANY Shirou can defeat Gil that uses Ea even inside UBW(unless using Avalon with Saber prana support), go read my previous post. The fact that you got the context of Gil vs Iskandar fight wrong makes me doubtful of your knowledge of this series, let me enlighten you, Gil only used Ea out of respect to let him die with glory and not being serious fighting him there, he may as well use GoB only and the result will be the same because Ionioi Hetairoi is too incompatible with GoB.
He explained it with the rigid rules, I am explaining their fight with inclusion of their abilities, fighting skills, specialties, combat approach, personalities, tactical skills and their behavior under pressure, guess what, MOST Nasuverse fights are that kind of fight. And hype, see my explanation if that includes "hurr durr Shirou da best, Gilfag btfo ya kiss Shirou kill yazz bam!!!" Established RULES? Nasuverse and Nasu was ALWAYS inconsistent with its rules; Holy Grail can only summon good Heroes? no Servants can have more than 3 NP? Shirou/EMIYA can't project divine constructs? Holy Grail can't summon pure gods? Magic crest can only transferred to blood relatives because if not it will reject the host? You become ghoul first when bitten by a dead ancestor? Cannot regenerate from being slashed by MEoDP? Zelrecht defeating type-moon in direct combat despite being much weaker canonically? There's so many of them. I think that following this Verse' rules is ret@rded as there are so many ways the characters bended or ignored, and/or outright broken them already. Oh by the way Normal Gilgamesh="Galactic level ego, arrogant and will never goes all out against insignificant beings he deems unworthy", not "competent, calm minded, goes all-out and serious against anyone even weaklings", that is very OOC and not Gil anymore.

CerberusGate said:

... A simple clarification would have sufficed here. Yes, I have not kept up with the Nasuverse and my knowledge of it all may be lacking but by deciding to insult me by claiming to be 'enlightening' me, you're only shown me that you happen to be one of those annoying neck-beards who spends way too much time researching all this and enjoys being an arrogant douche. You lack tact.

I was not dissing you in the slightest in that original post of mine. I was providing a form of clarification based on what I knew at the time. If I was wrong, just point it out to me and I will acknowledge my mistake.

Now however I'm dissing a cringe-worthy neckbeard who spends way too much time on this and probably wants to be a douche for attention. Aka you, @ZeroOmega. Way to ruin a discussion thread by being an over-excited and over-pompous douche about it.

Oh, as for the Kuzuki example: He can't win against Saber in a re-match. His fighting style is based around his unusual style of fighting that only works once since most opponents that face him for the first time are unable to predict how he fights, hence why Saber lost to him when they first met. Once a master combatant has seen his style of fighting (and not died from facing it the first time), he's at a disadvantage unless augmented (which he was with Caster's help). As for the rules, some of them have been followed and the deviations have been explained somewhat (like the Grail only spawning good heroes but evil figures popping up: Angra Mainyu's corruption of the Grail - though judging by your tirade, you obviously were not paying attention to that detail) while some are obviously changed with time (or altered for convenience).

ZeroOmega said:

Whoa,man, now just because you realized you never read all my post, pointed all your faults by joining the discussion like a blind man, now you resort to those types of insults, man, is MAL 4chan in disguise? Well as if I was insulted in the slightest anyways, thanks for the laugh.
Oh DID you just proved my point? Man, thanks for saying that Nasuverse rules is always changeable, in-universe and meta.
Note:All those info I said in my comments, I never researched them while typing them, I just remembered them all ;P

CerberusGate said:

No, thank you, @ZeroOmega. You're a good reminder that some people on MAL are just like everyone else on the Net: Unnecessarily rude to people for no good reason because of anonymity. I imagine you would not be saying the same things in real spoken conversation.

As for the rules, there is a thing as concessions. People use them because it would be stupid to argue on points already established and accurate (I conceded on the rule ever-changing because that's how fiction works and Fate/Kaleid is a slim deviation since it still follows basic Nasuverse conventions). Besides, I couldn't be bothered with reading your post to reply to everything anyways (Your sentence structure in your post was rather bad, something straight out of 4Chan, to quote you, and I couldn't be bothered to read through that fan-boyish drivel).

I resorted to insults since you decided to start with insults anyways. I'm not above resorting to such things to respond to similar treatment; an eye for an eye as they say. Thanks for the laughs, kid ;D.

Oh and thanks for proving to me that you obviously have unverified sources of info for your points, kiddo. Using your own perspective-influenced points based on memory and stating them as facts that you insult people with while claiming they are established facts? At least I admit these sort of things from the get-go and this means that your points don't mean anything to me (plus I can safely ignore them as irrelevant spam then).

ZeroOmega said:

Whoa man, looks like you really are triggered, so mad that you got your misinformed comments got corrected? Did I insulted you in any of my post by name calling? Being so angry for something like discussions of a fictional story in the internet? Man, looks who's the one acting like a ne... Oops! Gotta watch my choice of words or I will be stooping down to your level.
Unverified source huh... maybe you don't know that not all human beings have short-term memory. What an irony, first try to insult my post as researching all of them and wasting my time for it then resort to insulting me again because I did not do any research at all before posting, I just can't...stop...laughing xD.
Well looks like we are deviating further from this thread's topic(it's not a power level thread anyways), we should just stop now.

ZeroOmega said:
Well now that's over, how about someone give their own explanation about Miyu Shirou surviving freaking Enuma Elish even being that close to the blast? I got many but want to see if they plausible?

Zilf said:
That blast isn't for shirou but his reality marble. or at least that's how i see it.

CerberusGate said:

To clarify, Gil is still a Heroic Spirit. He has stronger physical abilities when compared a human (even if the human is someone like Shirou). Most humans in the Nasuverse are unable to fight a Heroic Spirit head on so if a focused and calm Gil actually clashed with Shirou in a proper sword fight, the fight would not end well for any Shirou (even this one). There is a reason why Iskandar was doomed once he gained Gil's respect; Gil would take Iskandar seriously in a fight and would actually think during the fight (hence he obliged with using Ea against the Ionian Hetairoi). EDIT: I know Iskandar would still lose to a GoB barrage but still, getting Gil's respect means that he's willing to face you properly which removes any chance of victory.

@Fai is explaining with established Nasuverse rules (and could clarify any errors I state here). Yes this chapter was epic but this does not mean that this Shirou is suddenly stronger than any Gil. Hype should not cloud one's ability to perceive someone. It has always been established that Shirou can't fight a focused Gil, which is why in VN's UBW, Shirou keeps him unfocused and off-balanced to finish him off quickly.

Devil_Slayer said:


Gil beating Shirou in a sword fight ? are you seriously saying that ? first of all these isn't a heroic spirit it's servant Gil
Gil run like a bitch in front of fsn Shirou after he got a chance he didn't even tried to fight him melee range , this shirou show feat of fighting other servent head on and beat them with his tatctic mind

Gil is arrogant , lack tactic mind , never bother to fight close range , we never saw him fighting anyone in close range , and you trying to tell he will beat shirou in close range ? Dude give it a break already you the one who is hypeing Gil

CerberusGate said:

In the Fate route, he has enough melee skill to toy around with Shirou and Saber though granted he does so once he is fully aware that they can't hurt him. With the right weapons pulled from GoB, he could play around with his opponents. However, he does not need to since he can spam GoB and his own melee skill would pale in comparison to other wielders hence the barrage. Besides, his ideal fighting style as an Archer (since you want to insist that he is a Servant) is a strategic use of the barrage combined with Enkidu as several games in the Fate franchise has demonstrated. Gil has been shown to at least know some of his treasures (like how he knew to pull out the base weapon that inspired Caliburn in the Fate route to break Shirou's Projection of Caliburn) so it is feasible that he could technically pull out a prototype of Gae Bolg and launch it among his usual barrage for maximum effect.

As for tactical mind, Fate/Extra begs to differ as there, he's still an arrogant dick but there is reason and wisdom to him. There is a mind there, it's buried under all that ego. Said mind is more evident in classic Ko-Gil who lacks adult Gil's pride.

As for running from Shirou 'like a bitch', you're clearly misunderstanding the situation. UBW route shows that his fleeing was more of a tactical retreat and Shirou knew that another reason he could beat Gil is because Gil was not focused on the fight while acknowledging that Gil could regain his advantage if he were to regain focus, hence Shirou engaging in quick and close melee clashes that destroys whatever weapon Gil pulls from GoB. In fact, this chapter shows a possibility would have happened if Gil managed to create good distance and regained his composure, a fully charged Ea.

I'm stating what has been repeatedly stated and established before in mainline canon. Even if Kaleid is a different story to the main titles, it follows rules from the main stories quite well.

I'm not even a fan of his character so I definitely don't try to over-hype his character unlike Zero secondaries but even I know not to misrepresent Gil just to make a character seem cooler than another. It is because of Gil's power that the triumphs of the protagonists against Gil are feats. This Shirou's ability to match with a facet of Gil's power is still a feat and being regarded as a mongrel would allow him to beat Gil but within a metaphorical time limit that is Gil's ego and how off-center Shirou can keep him.

So if I seem to be over-hyping Gil to you, maybe you should wonder if you are over-hyping this Shirou in your head and assuming it to be fact. I'm not afraid to stick up for lore consistency even if I like the character opposing the apparently 'over-hyped one' like this Shirou. Heck, Miyuverse Shirou is currently my favorite Shirou in Nasuverse works.

Devil_Slayer said:


saber under shirou mastery is the weakest saber he was just playing around he never tried to take her seriously in melee fight he know GoB back him up and when she was under Rin mastery he didn't even dare come close to her in close compbat his melee sword skill fail in compare to most servent and shirou showed feat to fight in equal teram with a servent that Gil need GoB in order to kill them
him pulling NP from his GoB mean nothing he still don't know how to use it which is why he only throw it at his enemy as endless sword spam

Ok he only use enkidu againt's worthy opponent "saber - Berserk " and he will never see shirou worthy one he is a mere faker that doesn't even deserve to waste time on < from Gil respective and it's useless again't shirou anyway

Dude fate shirou is weakest shirou out there he barely knew the basic of his ability he trade blow or two with berserker with luck and that is it , Gil run from UBW shirou when he had the chance to fight him in melee and your trying to tell he can rekt lol

Ok so what are you trying to get ? i never said Gil is stupid and lack wisdom , he never try to use them since he used to crash every opponent he face with ease so there no need to it to begin with and when did he used his mind in fsn remaind me ? lol he lose to far weaker opponent than him because how much of arrogant he is when he fought UBW shirou even after shirou was kicking his ass after casting UBW he still hesitate to use Ea until the very last moment

At first yes he wasn't a threat to him "Dude he was playing with him and let saber and rin doing thier things " but after casting UBW he was at disadvantage he was trying his best but it's useless since shirou counter every thing he do
i already said Gil can beat shirou with Ea but the problem he won't draw it until he feel he is at compelt at disadvantage and by then it will be too late "not that shirou will allow him anyway "

Nope not in every rule it must follow , its different universe anyway fsn can't trace divine constructs while kaleid shirou can and it's good enough to break the original one along with it

i am stating the facts here not "trying to make a character look cooler than other "
a match between shirou and Gil will go exactly like UBW
considering this "ability -skill-tactics -personality " Gil outclass every charater in fate series but shirou happend to be the natural counter to him and Gil can still beat him if he use tactics and his strongest wepons alond with Ea but Gil will never do it not again the mongrel , he can't even stand that shirou can hold his own against him let alone going all out against faker like him

when i state my opinion and back it up with reasons and explain and prove it then when i call it a fact i am not forcing your opinion of you were discussing out POV on thie matter

my whole point was that Gil can't match kalied shirou becasue kalied shirou proved to be able to beat every servent in the gril war "even if they were weaker than the orignal they have the same status and NP " just that , Gil can kick his ass if he goes all out anyday of the week

CerberusGate said:

Why the hostility, kid? (I base this presumption on the grammar you are using so correct me if I'm wrong). All because I was stating established notions does not mean that you need to defend this Shirou so vehemently. This is still a forum with people of differing opinions. So far, everyone here enjoys Kaleid so why are you going out of your way to attack people who have different notions and ideas about a character or two? I wasn't even bashing this Shirou (I guess the Gil fanboyism phenomena that Fate/Zero spawned finally have their counterparts now...)

Also you may want to restructure your post properly because I can't understand anything there due to the aforesaid grammar and poor sentence structure. I can't even clarify or address any of your points because of how unstructured your reply is.

Plus ZeroOmega and I already decided to drop this entire pointless and off-topic thing so why did you bring it up again?

Devil_Slayer said:


are you turning this into insulting ? English is not my first language so you have to bare with me , i wasn't attacking anyone and i already said i am not forcing my opinion on you just like how you free to say why you think Gil would beat kailed shirou in close compat i was pointing why in i think this isn't the case

lol is my english that bad ?

Devil_Slayer said:


Unlike iskandar he took it head on and still survive without fatal wounds
hell non-serious attack from Ea nearly killed saber after overpowering her Holy sowrd
well maybe kalied shirou is just that badass xD