Third wave feminism is toxic

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Aug 2015

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mayukachan said:
No, but I truly believe that we can prevent it from happening if people were taught not to rape.

You can't.

I'm sorry. People are taught morals through proper schooling and upbringing. And rape is part of that. Yet they do it anyway. Nothing would change.

Nov 22, 2015 10:21 PM

#105

AltoRoark

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This thread is toxic.

Nov 22, 2015 10:25 PM

#106

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SimplyHuman said:

Cottonrabbit said:
Rape is about feeling power and dominance, control, revenge and/or instilling pain and fear in the victim. It has nothing to do with what the victim is or isn't wearing otherwise women in burkas would be safe. There is no skirt length that will exclude a woman from a rapists consideration. The world is not just and bad things happen. Rather than telling women they should be living in fear in case they incite any impure longings in misunderstood men out there, put the entire responsibility for the attack where it lies. It is only the sociopath who harms others who deserves our contempt.

Why not teach victims how to defend themselves rather than teach mindless drones (rapists) To not do what they do?

We already do but sometimes, you trust the wrong person or are simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. It is impossible to be entirely safe from crime even with precautions. The problem is unlike theft, a rape victims character is torn to shreds. It is not enough that she went through the trauma of being raped, she gets blamed and judged for being attacked as well. You would think frontline services such as the police would know better than this by now but the perception of "she brought it on herself" is incredibly prevalent despite its absurdity. I actually had two young twits tell me about their friend who was raped but they didn't believe her because she "likes sex." Despite that this girl had not been known to be manipulative or a liar over the years they had known her, the fact that she enjoyed consensual sex with various partners equated to she must have really wanted it despite saying rejecting the guy. Feminists are not trying to say men are all rapists (although I will admit we have one or two nutters claiming the label). We are trying to end the culture of victim blaming and the attitude that woman is a whore who can't be raped just because she enjoys consensual sex. If the standard is to obtain verbal consent, it won't prevent rape but it does make it very clear whether the sex is consensual or not. It seems bizarre but many people don't really understand consent can be withdrawn at any time during sex, and to continue is rape. People also need to be educated about the myths surrounding rape such as it can be prevented by showing less skin.

I have used female pronouns here but they can be used interchangeably with male ones. Also, sexual violence is also happens in homosexual relationships.

CottonrabbitNov 22, 2015 10:33 PM

Nov 22, 2015 10:26 PM

#107

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I don't feel like going through all these replies someone tell me what happened

Nov 22, 2015 10:27 PM

#108

Lovely

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cause said:

sutorii said:

but i don't think you have any :^)

˙͜ >˙

That face makes me giggle

Nov 22, 2015 10:30 PM

#109

PeepGangLing

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May 2015

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Cottonrabbit said:

SimplyHuman said:

Why not teach victims how to defend themselves rather than teach mindless drones (rapists) To not do what they do?

We already do but sometimes, you trust the wrong person or are simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. It is impossible to be entirely safe from crime even with precautions. The problem is unlike theft, a rape victims character is torn to shreds. It is not enough that she went through the trauma of being raped, she gets blamed and judged for being attacked as well. You would think frontline services such as the police would know better than this by now but the perception of "she brought it on herself" is incredibly prevalent despite its absurdity. I actually had two young twits tell me about their friend who was raped but they didn't believe her because she "likes sex." Despite that this girl had not been known to be manipulative or a liar over the years they had known her, the fact that she enjoyed consensual sex with various partners equated to she must have really wanted it despite saying rejecting the guy. Feminists are not trying to say men are all rapists (although I will admit we have one or two nutters claiming the label). We are trying to end the culture of victim blaming and the attitude that woman is a whore who can't be raped just because she enjoys consensual sex. If the standard is to obtain verbal consent, it won't prevent rape but it does make it very clear whether the sex is consensual or not. It seems bizarre but many people don't really understand consent can be withdrawn at any time during sex, and to continue is rape. People also need to be educated about the myths surrounding rape such as it can be prevented by showing less skin.

I have used female pronouns here but the can be used interchangeably with male ones.

We should teach wives to not kill their husbands for insurance policies also.

Vishnu was trying to persuade the prince to do his duty, so to impress him he took on his multi armed form and said now I become death, the destroyer of worlds.

Nov 22, 2015 10:30 PM

#110

xaow

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why is it that in all of these hypotheticals it's man on woman rape?

Nov 22, 2015 10:32 PM

#111

PeenusWeenusCaim

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mayukachan said:
No, but I truly believe that we can prevent it from happening if people were taught not to rape.

If people could easily teach others to never commit crimes, all of the world's problems would have been solved centuries ago. The world isn't perfect. Crime and cruelty has existed for millenniums and is all too natural with humanity.

The best you can do now is buy a gun since it's 2015.

Nov 22, 2015 10:33 PM

#112

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@cotten

However you also have to consider fake rape allegations. And how they can destroy a person if even if the claims come out as false.

I do agree with the victim blaming. But I also don't believe in perpetrator blaming. Until we find out exactly what happened. Like those footballs players who were accused of rape got their lives torn to shreds. A few months later, the police found no evidence, and it was found that there wasn't even a party that the girl claimed to be raped at. She even changed her story like 3 times. But the damage to the boys had already been done

Not to mention claiming rape as a way to cover shame is a thing too. Some colleges even say at freshmen orientation.

I'm all for not blaming people. But make sure evidence speaks evidence. And allegations be legitimate. Which requires both genders be more rational in their thinking.

Nov 22, 2015 10:33 PM

#113

PeepGangLing

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Ravioli_Ravioli said:
why is it that in all of these hypotheticals it's man on woman rape?

Men are actually raped more, so I don't know why they are using men on woman rape situations only

Vishnu was trying to persuade the prince to do his duty, so to impress him he took on his multi armed form and said now I become death, the destroyer of worlds.

Nov 22, 2015 10:35 PM

#114

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987

Lovely said:

cause said:

˙͜ >˙

That face makes me giggle

˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙˙͜ >˙

Nov 22, 2015 10:36 PM

#115

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cause said:

mayukachan said:
No, but I truly believe that we can prevent it from happening if people were taught not to rape.

You can't.

I'm sorry. People are taught morals through proper schooling and upbringing. And rape is part of that. Yet they do it anyway. Nothing would change.

Obviously it'd still happen, just less.

That's the point of the classes. They aren't 100% guaranteed to prevent all rape cases of course that people may do.
Its like with the self-defense classes, and the stuff my mother tells me about going to parties, others houses alone, going out at night to be careful about.
I'm still likely to get raped, I'm just not as vulnerable to it & chances are lower.

Nov 22, 2015 10:38 PM

#116

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Ravioli_Ravioli said:
why is it that in all of these hypotheticals it's man on woman rape?

Because women are often the targets of rape & the majority of the victims are women.
That's like a worldly, universal fact and statistic are you shitting me

Nov 22, 2015 10:40 PM

#117

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kobun said:

cause said:

You can't.

I'm sorry. People are taught morals through proper schooling and upbringing. And rape is part of that. Yet they do it anyway. Nothing would change.

Obviously it'd still happen, just less.

That's the point of the classes. They aren't 100% guaranteed to prevent all rape cases of course that people may do.
Its like with the self-defense classes, and the stuff my mother tells me about going to parties, others houses alone, going out at night to be careful about.
I'm still likely to get raped, I'm just not as vulnerable to it & chances are lower.

We already learn that through morals though. A normal human being with a good moral compass knows rape is bad. They don't need classes to tell them this. They learn this through their own experiences. As well as their own laws. A class to teach people not to rape is pointless, because it doesn't offer anything more then normal morality. Whereas a self defense class does teach you things you wouldn't learn on a day to day basis from being a normal healthy person.

Nov 22, 2015 10:41 PM

#118

Red_Keys

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"Damn, if only I had been told not to rape earlier, this could all have been avoided!"

- No rapist ever

Ravioli_Ravioli said:
why is it that in all of these hypotheticals it's man on woman rape?

Because it's the only one that matters.

Nov 22, 2015 10:50 PM

#119

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Red_Keys said:

Ravioli_Ravioli said:
why is it that in all of these hypotheticals it's man on woman rape?

Because it's the only one that matters.

Thanks to y'all.

Nov 22, 2015 10:52 PM

#120

BatoKusanagi

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-#KillAllMen
-'Manspreading
-'Ironic' misandry.

3 good reasons right there, OP. And these are the mild ones.

Nov 22, 2015 10:56 PM

#121

Eminem

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sutorii said:
according to a good majority of mal users that is. But why is that? Can anyone actually give 3 good reasons why feminism affects you on a personal level in a negative way?

down with meninists

Because they feel threatened.

Nov 22, 2015 10:56 PM

#122

Pirating_Ninja

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#FreeTheNipple . . . Please? Why can't more Third Wavers jump on board with this?

Nov 22, 2015 11:25 PM

#123

sutori

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BatoKusanagi said:
-#KillAllMen
-'Manspreading
-'Ironic' misandry.

3 good reasons right there, OP. And these are the mild ones.

that is literally sexism and not feminism. it's like that twitter trend #killallmuslims. does that represent all people who aren't muslims?

and what is manspreading?
ironic misandry i can see being harmful in certain degrees.

Nov 22, 2015 11:40 PM

#124

sutori

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776

traed said:

Youre cherry picking and point out literally one word. What about expressions like manhandling? It goes both ways.

This is about third wave feminism not feminism though.Not all people for equality are for third wave feminisms methods. Plenty of people want nothing to do with the corruption of what feminism has become. The vast majority of people want equality for genders. Trying to bully people into calling themselves a feminist is stupid and does nothing to help anything.

i'm picking out the words everyone hears on a daily basis, in the #2 point, the word 'bitch' is what gets applied to women the most (along with slut/whore/etc). think about the most frequent insults you hear, and how the offense of each word differs. the c-word is definitely the most offensive one, and de-masculinizing (pretending that's a real word here) a guy is just more offensive in general.

and yeah the extreme things you see feminism is bad, but should that take attention from the original purpose? to create equal emotional and social values for all genders? and what exactly is third-wave feminist methods here?

Nov 22, 2015 11:41 PM

#125

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cause said:
@cotten

However you also have to consider fake rape allegations. And how they can destroy a person if even if the claims come out as false.

I do agree with the victim blaming. But I also don't believe in perpetrator blaming. Until we find out exactly what happened. Like those footballs players who were accused of rape got their lives torn to shreds. A few months later, the police found no evidence, and it was found that there wasn't even a party that the girl claimed to be raped at. She even changed her story like 3 times. But the damage to the boys had already been done

Not to mention claiming rape as a way to cover shame is a thing too. Some colleges even say at freshmen orientation.

I'm all for not blaming people. But make sure evidence speaks evidence. And allegations be legitimate. Which requires both genders be more rational in their thinking.

People can be really shitty; just as there are rapists, there will be people who lie about it. Rape needs to be investigated properly of course and there must be a presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Unfortunately minimising the damage caused by the public taking sides while investigations are underway is pretty difficult. The media also bears responsibility in this as they go for sensationalism rather than strictly reporting the facts as they are known. I do hope that girl received criminal charges for making false claims.

Nov 22, 2015 11:43 PM

#126

Pirating_Ninja

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sutorii said:
to create equal emotional and social values for all genders?

That is not the original nor current purpose of feminism. If it was, things like MRA would be redundant. There is a reason for such a hostile divide in gender politics, and if you ask me it is precisely because many misinterpret what feminism is, essentially blanketing the other side of the coin.

Nov 22, 2015 11:45 PM

#127

traed

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Nov 22, 2015 11:54 PM

#128

aplsas

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cause said:
sperm is poisonous

kill all men

Nov 22, 2015 11:58 PM

#129

Red_Keys

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kobun said:

Red_Keys said:

Because it's the only one that matters.

Thanks to y'all.

what

Nov 23, 2015 12:10 AM

#130

traed

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Nov 23, 2015 12:14 AM

#131

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cause said:

mayukachan said:
first guys compare getting raped to falling off a cliff
now they compare it to car crashes

lord save me

I'm sorry we can't fix the world. I wish we could. Truly. But I think it's ignorant to not try and prevent yourself from being in those dangerous situations. Are you at fault because that happened? No. Evil things are never deserved. But knowing something could or will happen, and not doing the best to avoid it, does not seem rational.

82% of sexual assaults are by someone known to the victim. The odds of being raped by a random stranger are actually pretty low. How are you supposed to protect yourself without working on the assumption every male you know and should be able to trust might be a potential rapist? It is one thing to be aware there is potential danger and another to expect people to hide away in fear of it. I am not trying to pick on you particularly on this. You worded it better than most :)

Nov 23, 2015 12:26 AM

#132

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Red_Keys said:

kobun said:

Thanks to y'all.

what

Thanks to you guys.
Not caring & ridiculing male rape victims. Especially if a female did the act.

Nov 23, 2015 12:28 AM

#133

Red_Keys

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kobun said:

Red_Keys said:

what

Thanks to you guys.
Not caring & ridiculing male rape victims. Especially if a female did the act.

what

Nov 23, 2015 12:30 AM

#134

traed

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I dont think she understands you were being sarcastic.

Nov 23, 2015 12:30 AM

#135

Caelidesu

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mayukachan said:
No, but I truly believe that we can prevent it from happening if people were taught not to rape.

Something I'm concerned about is the way in which some feminists try to redefine rape to include all 'gray areas' such as drunk sex, sex the woman later on regretted having, etc.
The reason that concerns me is that those sorts of things will end up being conflated with definite instances of rape, and that normal sexual relations between women and men that are horrified by the prospect of being labelled a 'rapist' will largely fall apart. Meanwhile, actual instances of violent rape won't be taken as seriously because the word itself has been softened thanks to its broader definition.

Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts.

Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that.

Nov 23, 2015 12:32 AM

#136

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Cottonrabbit said:

cause said:

I'm sorry we can't fix the world. I wish we could. Truly. But I think it's ignorant to not try and prevent yourself from being in those dangerous situations. Are you at fault because that happened? No. Evil things are never deserved. But knowing something could or will happen, and not doing the best to avoid it, does not seem rational.

82% of sexual assaults are by someone known to the victim. The odds of being raped by a random stranger are actually pretty low. How are you supposed to protect yourself without working on the assumption every male you know and should be able to trust might be a potential rapist? It is one thing to be aware there is potential danger and another to expect people to hide away in fear of it. I am not trying to pick on you particularly on this. You worded it better than most :)

By a person known to the victim in some way can be a large range of things from your spouse, to the IT guy that fixes your printer at work but you don't even know his name or face. But even so, a means of self defense for when the situation escalates into that kind of territory would still be more impact and provide better results, then classes aimed solely at teaching not to rape. Telling someone not to rape isn't going to stop them from doing it if they want to do it anyway.

I was more so speaking in that previous context since mayuka brought up walking alone in a skimpy outfit at night. Which of course is a bad situation to put yourself in. And should be avoided.

Nov 23, 2015 12:37 AM

#137

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traed said:
I dont think she understands you were being sarcastic.

Women don't understand anything.

Nov 23, 2015 12:38 AM

#138

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kobun said:

traed said:
I dont think she understands you were being sarcastic.

Women don't understand anything.

Do you want a hug

Nov 23, 2015 12:39 AM

#139

LoneWolf

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Cottonrabbit said:

-snip-

I only ever see you post on gender related threads. I'm curious why you only feel the need to chime in on these sort of topics?

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."
-Friedrich Nietzsche

Nov 23, 2015 12:46 AM

#140

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cause said:

kobun said:

Women don't understand anything.

Do you want a hug

Hugs won't relieve my stress

Nov 23, 2015 1:13 AM

#141

TheBrainintheJar

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16469

A lot of contemporary feminism tries to be questioning and subversive, but it ends up just singling out an enemy to fight against.

I think it has some good points, but they need to shed their dogma and focus on more serious issues. Cut the crap with mansplaining.

WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things

Nov 23, 2015 1:17 AM

#142

EjiLeonhart

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Apr 2015

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OK *stretches*, first post had to come on a political topic didn't it......

So while I'd like to buy into the let's Lambaste it with the full force of a blackhole generator thing, the fact is atleast more than half of the feminists out there are doing good for the world and women in genral and kudos to them for their efforts........Now onto the other section the spam Rape culture and degrade anyone who doesn't accept your cause, these are the true scum. While I'm not opposed to the idea of a rape culture existing- my understanding being a society that indirectly or directly encourages the act, I personally am on the fence about it and then there's the extremists such as anita sarke(can't be bothered to spell the rest of her name), onision and others who purport the ideas that it's feminism or fuck off/egalitarians are just males who want to hate on feminists/your a stupid bitch if you don't appreciate it/ Rape suspects should be guilty until proven innocent, and yet these people have millions of people who support their ideas which is a scary thought to me and may help explain the stigma towards being a feminist.
also to the whole teach men not to rape argument, I'm sorry but that made me lol because as much as humans have the ability to learn, we are autonomic beings and will do as we see benificial to our personal interest. The only way you could teach a person not to rape is by conditioning them in inhumane way like putting them in a room with a naked woman zapping them with an electrode whenever they approach her.
I identify as an egalitarian because it encompasses my genral beliefs that everyone has equal worth as a person but with an added twist that that worth is also subject to said presons actions ^_^

Nov 23, 2015 2:37 AM

#143

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LoneWolf said:

Cottonrabbit said:

-snip-

I only ever see you post on gender related threads. I'm curious why you only feel the need to chime in on these sort of topics?

I actually post in a range of threads but I am not particularly memorable :D I am probably more noticeable in gender threads as my views tend to oppose the majority and the discussion usually calls for more than one post.

Nov 23, 2015 3:04 AM

#144

PeenusWeenusCaim

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Red_Keys said:

kobun said:

Thanks to y'all.

what

You're contributing to rape culture he says

Nov 23, 2015 3:17 AM

#145

Rance-sama

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Because third wave feminism doesn't fight for equality whatsoever, and instead focus on a misguided sense of entitlement and victim complex. Sure, there's a minority that truly cares about women and don't hate men for no reason. But that's all they are, a minority.

Nov 23, 2015 5:48 AM

#146

Spooks

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mayukachan said:
No, but I truly believe that we can prevent it from happening if people were taught not to rape.

Oh FFS

Nov 23, 2015 5:55 AM

#147

Mayuka

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why do you want to revive a gross thread

underneath the stars

Nov 23, 2015 9:14 AM

#148