xEmptiness said: Your rule was added. The 200 word rule. Why 200 words instead of open club? Because if you're not serious enough to write more than 2 short paragraphs about something coherent, you're not serious enough for discussion. This entry pathway never took account of ability, it's also the one that failed the most. Go figure. You sent invites to people you thought were "worthy" in your own opinion though. Doesn't that contradict your whole "democracy" clause if you're inviting people based on your own perception of who is worthy of said discussion? |
xEmptiness said: ImperialX said: I'm being serious though, why does the tier list exist when the first rule of Danebenreden is "Reinforce meaningful and respectful communication between members"? OK fine. Since you're arguing for its existence being of negative worth to meaningful and respectful harmony rather than arguing some kind of objectivity/subjectivity (which I've already put in the disclaimer), I'll seriously think about removing it D: Someone convinced xE to remove the tier list? Well I'll be! This is on par with someone from Tekken Zaibatsu admitting that picking a Mishima = tier-whoring!   |
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xEmptiness said: I've been extremely generous with sending out invitations. You might want to rethink that statement. Also, i think people here have no idea about how democracy works, but talking about how it should work. |
Drunk-fu said: xEmptiness said: I've been extremely generous with sending out invitations. You might want to rethink that statement. Also, i think people here have no idea about how democracy works, but talking about how it should work. If you only invite people you think are worthy, you smear democracy. That would be like a presidential candidate dictating who can vote and who can't. But I'm not sure who you're second sentence is aimed at in particular since it's kinda vague. |
xEmptiness said: It's actually easy to convince me. You just have to be reasonable. Now I'm gonna respond to this in the nicest way possible. Really, this is as decent a response as possible: |
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xEmptiness said: cause said: If you only invite people you think are worthy, you smear democracy. That would be like a presidential candidate dictating who can vote and who can't. But I'm not sure who you're second sentence is aimed at in particular since it's kinda vague. Do I need to repeat myself? I invite anyone any existing member brings up, unless other members are in strong disagreement. I have my doubts. Considering most of your actions revolve around your own forced will. Just look at the magic topics. I mean it is your club after all. Accepting your word on something you created is like openly accepting bias. |
icirate said: It would be a dumb thing to pursue if the very fact of it being a democracy contradicts the intended goals of a democracy.A democracy might tend towards an oligarchy or aristocracy over time, but that alone surely doesn't make it a dumb thing to pursue in the first place. icirate said: Good enough for you?Similarly, it should be enough that there's some vague definition that a good portion of the people involved can agree on. Autocrat has already in this thread provided one that's good enough for the purpose. icirate said: The very concept of an exclusive club based upon a non-objective criteria according to one or several people's aesthetic sensibilities, while masquerading as an objective fact might be elitist, but it is also counter-productive and somewhat dishonest. It is the same as people who say they rate anime objectively, while failing to take into account how their values form the metric in which they judge. These values, by the way, are by no means homogenous: If there is a common ground, it is not an easy majority. And most importantly, one could dispense of this pretense of intelligence as an arbiter and still accomplish the same thing with better reception.Besides, the very concept of an exclusive club based on any criteria is always going to come across as elitist to some. icirate said: The decision will not be black and white. Offending users isn't of interest here, but the people that fall right under the line of qualified intelligence, and it begs the question how much banding there will be in your compression algorithm where you rely on limited data from MAL posts to determine and categorize gradients of intelligence.katsucats said: That's an easily reversible problem, given how clubs work. Present a strong case for trimming the fat. Come to an agreement. Boot out the offending users.If you open it up, it leads to a slippery slope and deflates to #2. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
xEmptiness said: damastah said: Now I'm gonna respond to this in the nicest way possible. Really, this is as decent a response as possible: TBH, that's the kind of argument that won't convince me. But I'm not convincing you. I even said in the very same post that it's a response, not an attempt to convince you of something. |
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xEmptiness said: damastah said: But I'm not convincing you. I even said in the very same post that it's a response, not an attempt to convince you of something. I never said you were. I just pointed out it would not even if you were. Except that if my intent were to convince you of something, my post would be waaaaay different. Good for you if a post not intent to convince someone doesn't convince you though. |
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| Oh yeah. I remember back in 2013 I joined a really cancerous anime site who bullied me because I wanted the next gen xbox over the playstation. Opinions on systems aside, I'm just thinking: are these all fat virgin internet losers? |
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NicoIsPathetic said: and the IQ tier list that I just discovered today and did not take very well, hence resulting me bumping the IQ test thread out of retaliation with a snide shitpost of "Tier 5 Reporting." God dammit I love you nico |
NicoIsPathetic said: Can't believe I'm saying this and better yet debating on a thread with constant debaters, but I'm sending out a horse in this race since now I want to defend my "intellectually limited" character that has been brought up multiple times via this site. Pretty sure I've indirectly talked to Rev (we're on good terms now) about this and she agrees with me on this, but this community really is problematic and the "intelligence divide" to me is nothing but nonsensical bullshit and part of the problem. Elitism is just a copout of inferiority outside the society that makes you feel that way. I see Danebenreden as a sphere of nihilism that kind of tries a bit too much to go out of its way and really carry out the elitist facade. The sad part is, this isn't Nidhoeggr's old school ironic elitism that The Anime Uber-Elitists endorse. Unless I'm totally kidding myself that Danebenreden itself really is just irony itself, I will continue to view this club in a negative light based on what I've seen through threads, users' posts, and the IQ tier list that I just discovered today and did not take very well, hence resulting me bumping the IQ test thread out of retaliation with a snide shitpost of "Tier 5 Reporting." I'm my own person, I don't need to act intelligent to get by. I only shitpost and act toxic because this community is unfixable. I know very well deep down that I could be in Danebenreden if I debated relentlessly the entire time I posted here, but I choose not to do so. I have too many commitments in my real life to commit to MAL stuff. I also hate joining Skype chats because they're too cliquey and no fun unless it's just people engaging in friendly and mutual discourse, regardless of the "intelligence level" that it contains. For people to call me intellectually limited, should not insult me, but it actually does. Clearly people don't know what life I live in my real life. I'm graduating Cum Laude from my college, I write a private blog that is composed of hundreds of tl;dr messages, I could be a writer in the near future as I'm currently taking my talents under the radar for at least now, MAL is simply no place for me to show off my intelligence. I have no desire to impress people in an anime community, so I'm just going to leave it at that. The bottom line is, fuck this site man, fuck everything about it. Why do I say what I say? I don't care, I really don't care, I know who my real trusted ones are here, I know my real life and my commitments matter more than anything, why should I rub my shit in others' faces? That's not nice in my opinion. How some people go out of their way to rub their achievements in others' faces pisses me off. I don't do it for reasons because I don't want to upset anyone here either. I could care less about peoples' achievements/failures in their lives because a personality that is desirable and frank outside their lives is one I should be praising, not necessarily a Machiavellian debater or a shitposter with absolutely zero personality. I've got my own self to please, and if that's a problem, this is why I clearly don't want part in debates and some threads. I sometimes shitpost for reasons, but that's only because there IS nothing to fix when you think things are fixable. Man, people really do kid themselves. If I offend anyone here, add me on Skype via PM. I won't post in this thread further. I refuse to defend myself further right here. Do it on Skype where it's easier. That was like a WWE promo. xD |
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Kagami_Hiiragi said: That was like a WWE promo. xD I can see it being delivered by either Bray Wyatt or Paul Heyman lol |
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damastah said: Kagami_Hiiragi said: That was like a WWE promo. xD I can see it being delivered by either Bray Wyatt or Paul Heyman lol Or Cmpunk back in 2013/2014. |
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NicoIsPathetic said: ....wat?Elitism is just a copout of inferiority outside the society that makes you feel that way. NicoIsPathetic said: Really?I see Danebenreden as a sphere of nihilism that kind of tries a bit too much to go out of its way and really carry out the elitist facade. NicoIsPathetic said: I doubt you've ever conversed with Nidhoeggr.The sad part is, this isn't Nidhoeggr's old school ironic elitism that The Anime Uber-Elitists endorse. NicoIsPathetic said: All of xEmptiness' endeavors represent unintended irony, IMO. lolUnless I'm totally kidding myself that Danebenreden itself really is just irony itself NicoIsPathetic said: Who are you trying to convince, dude? lolI'm my own person, I don't need to act intelligent to get by. I only shitpost and act toxic because this community is unfixable. I know very well deep down that I could be in Danebenreden if I debated relentlessly the entire time I posted here, but I choose not to do so. NicoIsPathetic said: Cool story bro, tell us more.The bottom line is, fuck this site man, fuck everything about it. Why do I say what I say? I don't care, I really don't care NicoIsPathetic said: Nobody asked you to "fix" anything.I sometimes shitpost for reasons, but that's only because there IS nothing to fix when you think things are fixable. NicoIsPathetic said: No kidding.Man, people really do kid themselves. NicoIsPathetic said: Nope. Your fruit was hanging too low, and it would be a shame to let it ferment.If I offend anyone here... |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
katsucats said: It would be a dumb thing to pursue if the very fact of it being a democracy contradicts the intended goals of a democracy. Want to tie that statement back away from the analogy for me? <- It's that confusing. meta-confusion katsucats said: icirate said: Good enough for you?Similarly, it should be enough that there's some vague definition that a good portion of the people involved can agree on. Autocrat has already in this thread provided one that's good enough for the purpose. I'm too lazy to arrange a poll, but it's an easy one to agree with. Subjective and vague descriptions are good enough for the intended purpose. This is after all about pragmatism, not semantics. I'll bet that most people have a subjective idea of intelligence that isn't too far from whatever definition you try to provide - whether generally or specific to this context. katsucats said: The very concept of an exclusive club based upon a non-objective criteria according to one or several people's aesthetic sensibilities, while masquerading as an objective fact might be elitist, but it is also counter-productive and somewhat dishonest. It doesn't need to be objective. If someone made a club for appreciating attractive women, it wouldn't fall apart simply because no-one can perfectly agree on an objective standard for an attractive woman is. Same deal here. katsucats said: icirate said: The decision will not be black and white. Offending users isn't of interest here, but the people that fall right under the line of qualified intelligence, and it begs the question how much banding there will be in your compression algorithm where you rely on limited data from MAL posts to determine and categorize gradients of intelligence.That's an easily reversible problem, given how clubs work. Present a strong case for trimming the fat. Come to an agreement. Boot out the offending users. Let's once again defer to pragmatism. As long as someone was upholding the principles on which the club was based, it wouldn't actually matter if they were intelligent, so the banning of someone from the club for repeatedly posting stupid shit wouldn't require an algorithm or qualification. It wouldn't be black and white but it wouldn't need to be. It's easy enough to distinguish charcoal from bone. |
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
katsucats said: I'd add a lot more to that, but he'll catch up.All of xEmptiness' endeavors represent unintended irony, IMO. lol |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
xEmptiness said: You're getting denser and denser.Immahnoob said: I'd add a lot more to that, but he'll catch up. It actually goes irony -> not irony -> irony -> not irony -> irony -> not irony .... infinite. It's perfectly intended. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Kagami_Hiiragi said: damastah said: I can see it being delivered by either Bray Wyatt or Paul Heyman lol Or Cmpunk back in 2013/2014. Lol true! CM Punk was like the Brock Lesnar of promos when he was still around xD |
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xEmptiness said: Still as dense as ever.Immahnoob said: Russell's paradox is a bitch.You're getting denser and denser. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
xEmptiness said: I can't. Paradoxes are too stronk. I'm pretty sure Alien X can beat any version of Professor Paradox. |
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icirate said: Pragmatism doesn't solve subjectivity. Since you lack the ability to measure intelligence in any meaningful way, your determination of what qualifies is subjective, pragmatic, and arbitrary.Let's once again defer to pragmatism. icirate said: Sure.Want to tie that statement back away from the analogy for me? <- It's that confusing. meta-confusion icirate said: A democracy might tend towards an oligarchy or aristocracy over time, but that alone surely doesn't make it a dumb thing to pursue in the first place. katsucats said: It would be a dumb thing to pursue if the very fact of it being a democracy contradicts the intended goals of a democracy. icirate said: It's easy enough to distinguish charcoal from bone. katsucats said: The decision will not be black and white. Stop using bad analogies. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
katsucats said: Neither. Irn-bru. It's exclusive in origin but has a more-or-less global appeal. To state clearly, I am not attributing a general idea of intelligence to the context of discussions, but am defining intelligence as a scale of ability to do tasks where a context must be defined and where high intelligence places highly on the scale where people have a higher ability to do certain tasks. katsucats said: Let me clarify again. By "strong and productive" I mean, logically sound arguments backed up with points that don't simply repeat what has been said before and encourage further on-topic posting. I think you could have said this in a simpler way. Do you mean, "when people disagree on a multitude of things beyond key points, it becomes difficult to bridge a mutual understanding, as numerous technicalities must be taken into consideration. This becomes a lengthy process, which no one has the time to really do, and thus productivity in discussions is hard to achieve, as users can only see fault in those things that they disagree upon; these disagreements, the result of the complicated nature of different understandings bred from multiple, multi-layered factors"? katsucats said: No. A greater ability to do something is greater intelligence in said area. Genius, for example, is defined as an exceptional ability to do something, and genius is the extreme of high intelligence. Can you find me a valid example where someone can be said to be intelligent but does not have the ability to do something relative to their description of being intelligent in said area? katsucats said: Yeah, I can't really see a way around it for now. katsucats said: Nah, that's just an attitude. It's only got to do with the club attitude and the consequences of individual attitudes to the club's wellbeing when users disrespect the idea of constructive discussions. Ugh. Being stuck on my phone and doing part-by-part quote replies sucks. But yeah. |
JustaCratMay 2, 2015 3:12 AM
NicoIsPathetic said: and prefer practical discussion over philosophical discussion. Tell me sir. Do you believe in..... [i]magic?[/i] |
icirate said: Sure.Want to tie that statement back away from the analogy for me? <- It's that confusing. meta-confusion Argument 1: Pursuit X is meaningful if it achieves its intended purpose A. Pursuit X does not achieve A. Therefore, pursuit X is not meaningful. Your response: Pursuit Y is meaningful if it achieves its intended purpose B. Pursuit Y achieves B, but only for some time. Therefore, pursuit Y is still meaningful. My response: X =/= Y Argument 2: Determining the threshold of a gradient requires an arbitrary cutoff. System Z is a gradient. Determining the threshold in system Z requires an arbitrary cutoff. Your response: It is easy to determine the extremes of a gradient, which naturally falls into different sides of a threshold. My response: Decisions are not black or white (i.e. the argument was about the cutoff of a threshold, not the extremes.) Your response: Let's be pragmatic. It is easy to determine the extremes of a gradient. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| I'm in the exact same boat as you now, OP. |
[size=67]My profile | "A real man is someone who prepares himself for death before he eats breakfast every morning."  |
Autocrat said: Like discussing and managing MAL clubs, surely.To state clearly, I am not attributing a general idea of intelligence to the context of discussions, but am defining intelligence as a scale of ability to do tasks where a context must be defined and where high intelligence places highly on the scale where people have a higher ability to do certain tasks. Autocrat said: Rarely is deductive logic used exclusively in the vast majority of topics.Let me clarify again. By "strong and productive" I mean, logically sound arguments backed up with points that don't simply repeat what has been said before and encourage further on-topic posting. Autocrat said: This is a tautology and a straw man. I can find you plenty of examples where someone could be said to be intelligent but practices a skill with no clear relation to intelligence, like managing clubs in MAL, or picking which side of a cliff to jump off of.No. A greater ability to do something is greater intelligence in said area. Genius, for example, is defined as an exceptional ability to do something, and genius is the extreme of high intelligence. Can you find me a valid example where someone can be said to be intelligent but does not have the ability to do something relative to their description of being intelligent in said area? |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| Thanks for providing such a well laid-out response. I deleted my other post as I made that before I saw this. katsucats said: Argument 1: Pursuit X is meaningful if it achieves its intended purpose A. Pursuit X does not achieve A. Therefore, pursuit X is not meaningful. Your response: Pursuit Y is meaningful if it achieves its intended purpose B. Pursuit Y achieves B, but only for some time. Therefore, pursuit Y is still meaningful. My response: X =/= Y So we're just at odds as to whether it's achieved its intended purpose in the first place. That's fine. You likely know the club better than I do, so I'm not going to argue about that. katsucats said: Argument 2: Determining the threshold of a gradient requires an arbitrary cutoff. System Z is a gradient. Determining the threshold in system Z requires an arbitrary cutoff. Your response: It is easy to determine the extremes of a gradient, which naturally falls into different sides of a threshold. My response: Decisions are not black or white (i.e. the argument was about the cutoff of a threshold, not the extremes.) Your response: Let's be pragmatic. It is easy to determine the extremes of a gradient. You're right. That was a bad analogy that didn't fit in with the rest of what I was saying at all. The cutoff might be arbitrary, but that can be used to 'unfairly' work in the favour of someone that is contributing to discussion positively (and/or upholding the ideals of said club whatever they are) and against someone that makes terrible arguments and refuses to admit when they're wrong, so as long as a reasonable distinction can be made, it's not the end of the world if the gradient isn't measured or segmented perfectly. |
CaelidesuMay 2, 2015 3:38 AM
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
katsucats said: I think that depends on why he does it.or picking which side of a cliff to jump off of. I'd do it for the lulz, I'm a god. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| xEmptiness is a feg, his tier list is trash for missing out that I am Tier 0. Autocrat is a little pussy who got his ass whooped by Miss Slutface of all people on Skype, a feat I thought was previously impossible. Then tries to get revenge by crying on MAL. Wow. NicoIsPathetic going full "M-muh Social life!" in an attempt to hide his saltiness that he's not in the sekret club MAL drama is truly the most delicious. |
pikachuwei said: MAL drama is truly the most delicious. We get yuetsu anyway. |
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NicoIsPathetic said: xE, I have no interest in Daneben because I have no time to commit to discussion and witness it... Furthermore, I'm too busy to commit myself to an MAL club. >Joined Feb 2014 >7500+ posts >I-I'M TOO BUSY WITH REAL LIFE TO JOIN A CLUB hahahahahaahahahahaahahahaha The last 2/3rds of your username fits you very well |
pikachuwei said: NicoIsPathetic said: xE, I have no interest in Daneben because I have no time to commit to discussion and witness it... Furthermore, I'm too busy to commit myself to an MAL club. >Joined Feb 2014 >7500+ posts >I-I'M TOO BUSY WITH REAL LIFE TO JOIN A CLUB hahahahahaahahahahaahahahaha The last 2/3rds of your username fits you very well +1 The trashtalking is strong with this one. |
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xEmptiness said: NicoIsPathetic said: I said "no interest" which is potential to change, y'know. We're really not evil. You just need to get on a Skype call with us. But yea, give us a call if you're interested. Otherwise GL on w/e else you choose to do~ He's too busy with 'real life' for us |
| This thread has gotten very salty. Why and how? |
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Comic_Sans said: Joining MAL was a mistake *Biggest |
 Yes, I am CD 2.0's overlord. |
erikerik said: You can find those everywhere.I was never part of any community, except for MAL. And MAL certainly has some individuals that think of themselves as superior or more intelligent than others. |
erikerik said: I don't know why most of you think of MAL as a mistake? I quite like it here... I think they are making a parody out of the fake Miyazaki quote "Anime was a mistake". |
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Solipsistic said: 200 words? Sounds like a lot for simple request to join a randon club on the Internet.GangstaPriest said: There is none. You just have to write a well-thought out ~200 words explaining why you want to join.Give names, OP. edit: ah nvm, just saw the link. So, what's the minimum required IQ? More like a writing exercice which consists in showing off your skills and impressing the jury with a lot of bs you probably don't even believe yourself. My point being, I, personally, would be all the more impressed if someone managed to get their point across and convince while remaining concise. Dasjusme, but I think a lower word limit (i dunno, maybe 50) would yield more interesting results. Then again the very concept of the club kinda rubs me the wrong way, so whatever. OT: Went to Hellfest once with two friends. I liked the music but, well... This was quite the peculiar experience. |
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
Autocrat said: I had an experience where I was a member of a certain club here on MAL until today. I decided to leave after realising that it just wasn't for me. Some of this club's more active members were very elitist, pretentious and arrogant towards others. They claimed to be a highly intellectual club on MAL, and whilst it did attract some users who I thought wrote some fairly intelligent things at times, the prevailing attitude of elitism was something I grew to not be able to stomach any longer. It was a club I had invested much of my time and focus to being active on for quite a while, so it feels a bit regrettable. Have any of you had similar experiences lately where you felt like you got involved in the wrong community? Share your experiences here. I'm glad it was just an internet community I got that involved with, as I don't take the internet too seriously and it won't impact on my real life. But I'm sure many of you have had some more regrettable experiences, in real life or maybe even on the internet, too. But you don't have any qualms about getting involved in someone else's life, do you Autocrat? You've got a damn cheek making a comment like that after stalking me a few years back. |
| Losing an Argument online? Simply post a webpage full of links, and refuse to continue until your opponents have read every last one of them! WORKS EVERY TIME! "I was debating with someone who believed in climate change, when he linked me to a graph showing evidence to that effect. So I sent him a 10k word essay on the origins of Conservatism, and escaped with my dignity intact." "THANK YOU VERBOSE WEBPAGES OF QUESTIONABLE RELEVANCE!" |
AnnoKano said: Autocrat said: I don't take the internet too seriously and it won't impact on my real life. But I'm sure many of you have had some more regrettable experiences, in real life or maybe even on the internet, too. But you don't have any qualms about getting involved in someone else's life, do you Autocrat? You've got a damn cheek making a comment like that after stalking me a few years back.  |
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
| He also has no issue calling others elitist when he acted worse. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: He also has no issue calling others elitist when he acted worse. lol dis is some what true :P all though MAL-hypocrisy is contagious :3 |
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katsucats said: Like discussing and managing MAL clubs, surely. Sure. katsucats said: Rarely is deductive logic used exclusively in the vast majority of topics. I'll change that to "logically valid arguments". My mistake, there. katsucats said: This is a tautology and a straw man. I can find you plenty of examples where someone could be said to be intelligent but practices a skill with no clear relation to intelligence, like managing clubs in MAL, or picking which side of a cliff to jump off of. A straw man? Weren't you the one strawmanning when you assumed my attribution of the term intelligence to be a general and loosely applied one? Of which you proceeded to counter-argue it. I even made it clear that I was using intelligence in a relative and context specific way. But yes. Picking which side to jump of a cliff can be done intelligently. Not that in itself. Of course not. Someone would do so with a purpose in mind, and the ability to achieve that purpose as best as possible (by whatever criteria the individual has for that) can be done intelligently. Pikachuwei said: Autocrat is a little pussy who got his ass whooped by Miss Slutface of all people on Skype, a feat I thought was previously impossible. Then tries to get revenge by crying on MAL. Wow. Hey, hey, hey. It brought about a decent thread idea. I was bored with no club to talk with when I was in the mood for conversing and discussing! But can you really blame me for losing it with Miss Slutface? I simply despise her character, and I was getting fed up with the club. Not the members in general, like I was saying, but the nature of the club itself. I can't even pity her anymore, her spite is just too repulsive, in my opinion. Meh. AnnoKano said: But you don't have any qualms about getting involved in someone else's life, do you Autocrat? You've got a damn cheek making a comment like that after stalking me a few years back. Oh stop being so salty. Get over it, mate. |
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