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Feb 27, 2014 1:21 PM
#901
Kaimon237 said: tsudecimo said: HxH manga spoilers Gon's massive power up asspull that made him kill Pitou. It felt like Togashi didn't know what to do with Gon and Pitou and didn't find a realistic way for Gon to leave alive so he resorted to this Deus ex. I didn't like it at all. And Gon physical apparence from it looked stupid and weird as fuck. Gon is...I don't even know how to describe him at this point, his character is all over the place. There is also Netero having a chemical bomb inside of him which had zero foreshadowing but it's not as big of an asspull as Gon's. What a disappointing arc.. It's not like Gon got off scot-free, he's literally on his deathbed in the next arc That doesn't really change anything. It just a way to justify it, and a poor justification and an excuse at that. Not to mention that he Will be healed thanks to Alluka. yhunata said: Also, KnB 2: At the start of the season, in the third episode, Kuroko reveals his new move (albeit, an incomplete version), Vanishing Drive, to Momoi. Cue, a dozen episodes later, first round of the Winter Cup, it's Touou vs Seirin. During the first quarter break, it's revealed that Kuroko is actually using his misdirection to shift his opponent's attention towards Kagami, who has to be in line of sight with Kuroko's opponent in order for the Vanishing Drive to be successful....... Kagami was never present when Kuroko reveals his Vanishing Drive to Momoi. Furthermore, Kuroko uses it on Kagami himself, in a situation where there was no one around for Kuroko to misdirect Kagami's attention to. There are theories that fans have created to argue against this; 1) Momoi is not very good at Basketball, so Kuroko could've used it easily against her. 2) Kagami was not ready for it defensively, that's why it worked against him. There's just one thing; to have someone to shift the opponent's attention onto is a minimum necessity in order to use Vanishing Drive, so I really don't see why Momoi's and Kagami's un-readiness really matters. The fact remains that Kuroko could not have misdirected Kagami's or Momoi's attention onto someone else, which destroys the entire basis of his technique. The whole season 2 is just disappointing for me. Not to mention the ref thing, god that was stupid. |
tsudecimoFeb 27, 2014 1:25 PM
Feb 27, 2014 1:25 PM
#902
IntroverTurtle said: yhunata said: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=729541#msg27793507Also, KnB 2: At the start of the season, in the third episode, Kuroko reveals his new move (albeit, an incomplete version), Vanishing Drive, to Momoi. Cue, a dozen episodes later, first round of the Winter Cup, it's Touou vs Seirin. During the first quarter break, it's revealed that Kuroko is actually using his misdirection to shift his opponent's attention towards Kagami, who has to be in line of sight with Kuroko's opponent in order for the Vanishing Drive to be successful....... Kagami was never present when Kuroko reveals his Vanishing Drive to Momoi. Furthermore, Kuroko uses it on Kagami himself, in a situation where there was no one around for Kuroko to misdirect Kagami's attention to. There are theories that fans have created to argue against this; 1) Momoi is not very good at Basketball, so Kuroko could've used it easily against her. 2) Kagami was not ready for it defensively, that's why it worked against him. There's just one thing; to have someone to shift the opponent's attention onto is a minimum necessity in order to use Vanishing Drive, so I really don't see why Momoi's and Kagami's un-readiness really matters. The fact remains that Kuroko could not have misdirected Kagami's or Momoi's attention onto someone else, which destroys the entire basis of his technique. I know what Tallon's saying, but it's just that, how is the basis of the technique only acquired at perfection of the technique? It just sounds so damn absurd to me. Oh yeah, I also found this kinda odd; If Vanishing Drive works by misdirecting his opponents' gaze towards Kagami/whoever else, then it should only work on said opponent, correct? It's kinda made as if the others are also "misdirected", though. Or is that just me? tsudecimo said: The whole season 2 is just disappointing for me. Not to mention the ref thing, god that was stupid. I can't believe I forgot the referee (you're talking about the one in the Kirisaki Daiichi game, right?). On a scale of 10-10, how blind do you think he was? Overall, the second season is lacking in it's story, it's just way too corny now. But the games make up for it, though I can't say any of the games have reached Teiko vs Touou heights. |
yhunataFeb 27, 2014 1:32 PM
Feb 27, 2014 1:42 PM
#903
SolBlade said: HxH manga spoilers below While I personally liked the CA arc, that finale is pretty damn controversial to say the least. With Netero vs the King, it was more to symbolize the fact that Netero is far past his prime and to beat the King, he has to take him down with himself due to the King being much stronger due to his youth as well as being an incredibly powerful creature. I personally don't find the Rose bomb to be an asspull, though the introduction did come a bit late but still, nothing major. As for Gon's transformation... that'll definitely cause a huge divide among fans. Some say that he put a HUGE restriction on his nen ability while battling Pitou, sacrificing his inborn talent to kill one person. Kinda like Kurapika except it's more concentrated. It along with Gon's enhancement ability + anger makes for this kind of transformation. Dat hair though... But that wasn't explicitly stated so you can either look at it from my perspective or yours. Neither is incorrect. But speaking of Deus Ex... Alluka related spoilers (don't read till you catch up to the manga) Speaking of Deus Ex, the one thing that you can definitely consider Deus Ex is Alluka's nen ability. Not because of the ability itself but because of how Killua can bypass the price for some odd reason, which led to Gon being healed after looking brutally disfigured from his fight with Pitou. That is what I would call Deus Ex. How is it not a DEM? that explanation is only an interpretation from the fans. The omniscient narrator only said it can be achieved after throwing away all of your talent, which is even more confirmed by Killua saying ''What does one have to sacrifice to achieve this aura''. It wasn't clearly stated that Gon did the restriction like how Kurapika did. It came out of no where. It was also never stated before that someone can put restriction on his nen unconsciously or in one single moment of emotional outburst. Or that someone can just sacrifice something to get a huge aura. Nothing like this happened before unless I'm forgetting some details regarding nen. It's a Deus ex Machima. I don't see how can anyone argue against it. What you said about Netero being past his prime and what it symbolize is irrelevant to whether or not it's an asspull. I never commented on the fight being good or bad. I'm specifically talking about the bomb being inside Netero, that it had zero foreshadowing. yhunata said: I can't believe I forgot the referee (you're talking about the one in the Kirisaki Daiichi game, right?). On a scale of 10-10, how blind do you think he was? Overall, the second season is lacking in it's story, it's just way too corny now. But the games make up for it, though I can't say any of the games have reached Teiko vs Touou heights. Yeah agreed, that whole game was BS and boring. The flashback was also annoying and felt forced if that makes sense, it seems like a bad copy from Slam Dunk. It's lacking in everything for me, I don't think I even have the motivation to finish the season, I'm like 5 or more episodes behind. Awesome OP though. |
tsudecimoFeb 27, 2014 1:46 PM
Feb 27, 2014 2:00 PM
#904
tsudecimo said: Text n' stuff Honestly, Alluka's ability (while it also has it rules) is further in plot-convenience territory than Gon's power-up is, but her existence was hinted at at least once. Gon's case was just an extreme version of "Power x Price"/"Condition and Condition" that was established back in like Yorknew, really |
Feb 27, 2014 2:10 PM
#905
Kaimon237 said: tsudecimo said: Text n' stuff Honestly, Alluka's ability (while it also has it rules) is further in plot-convenience territory than Gon's power-up is, but her existence was hinted at at least once. Gon's case was just an extreme version of "Power x Price"/"Condition and Condition" that was established back in like Yorknew, really Wiki link for the Yorknew thing? or the manga page? I tried searching 'price' and 'sacrifice' in the Nen wiki page, I came up with nothing. |
Feb 27, 2014 2:13 PM
#906
tsudecimo said: Kaimon237 said: tsudecimo said: Text n' stuff Honestly, Alluka's ability (while it also has it rules) is further in plot-convenience territory than Gon's power-up is, but her existence was hinted at at least once. Gon's case was just an extreme version of "Power x Price"/"Condition and Condition" that was established back in like Yorknew, really Wiki link for the Yorknew thing? or the manga page? I tried searching 'price' and 'sacrifice' in the Nen wiki page, I came up with nothing. Iirc it was episode 47, where Kurapika had the flashback to when he was learning Nen and increasing the power of his chains |
Feb 27, 2014 3:17 PM
#907
tsudecimo said: HxH manga spoilers There is also Netero having a chemical bomb inside of him which had zero foreshadowing but it's not as big of an asspull as Gon's. About the zero foreshadowing thing, go back to episode 88 and watch the last 10 seconds or read this: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v20/c206/14.html |
MSVFeb 27, 2014 3:20 PM
Feb 27, 2014 3:27 PM
#908
Too much hunter x hunter spoiler tag here, time to GTFO!! |
Feb 27, 2014 3:54 PM
#910
yhunata said: There are plenty of "bullshit" moments in Toriko, partly because of how over-the-top it is. Still, all these bullshit moments are made pretty damn hilarious by the fact that Toriko takes itself very seriously. For example, there's this one moment while inside the Reagal Mammoth during which Rin recalls how she got the scar under her right eye..... Apparently, she cuts herself to try and imitate Toriko, but because she was looking at a mirror, she accidentally cut her right side instead of her left side (anime changed it to her getting wounded). The reason why this is a "bullshit" moment is that when you're looking into a mirror, your left side will appear on the left side. Of course, this is nothing big, but given the situation in which it was revealed, it came off as fucking hilarious. That's not a problem. She cut her right side because looking at Toriko's scar then looking into the mirror, she would have cut the side on the mirror that appeared to be her left side, but of course it would really be her right. I thought that was actually pretty simple. You can do it for yourself. Go to a mirror and place your hand on the side of your face that appears to be the left side. Step away from the mirror and you'll realize it's actually your right. |
"Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Feb 27, 2014 3:57 PM
#911
Shiryu form Saint Seiya Why were his head and face not completely burnt after reentry? I know Shura gave him his gold armor in order to survive but he didn't have the helmet for it. His head and face should of been incinerated after reentering earth's atmosphere. |
Feb 27, 2014 4:07 PM
#912
tsudecimo said: That's it? that is vague as hell. thats why its foreshadowing. |
Feb 27, 2014 4:10 PM
#913
That's not substantial enough. It just a generic line that gets thrown around before dangerous missions. But anyway, I don't really have much a problem with that in the first place. |
Feb 27, 2014 4:23 PM
#914
Dark_Wolverine said: vongola-undecimo said: saint seiya-i'm about 60 episodes in and the series has enough plot holes bs moments and plot conveniences to fill naruto&bleach and still have a lot left over now that's just bullshit......sure there were a few plot conveniences here and there,but that does'nt mean the whole series is riddled with them unless you've got your nostalgia shades on you'll know the large amounts of plot holes the series has |
Feb 27, 2014 8:54 PM
#915
Dark_Wolverine said: vongola-undecimo said: saint seiya-i'm about 60 episodes in and the series has enough plot holes bs moments and plot conveniences to fill naruto&bleach and still have a lot left over now that's just bullshit......sure there were a few plot conveniences here and there,but that does'nt mean the whole series is riddled with them The series is filled with asspulls in every ep after what?ep 3?4? That the Bronzes actually managed killed all the Silvers that werent female is absurd.What was the point of the classes anyway?Not to mention the Gold Saints.Or the God Warriors/whatever and the Marine Generals. The only actual good part of the series is Aiolios' past.Probably because there wasnt something that needed an asspull. |
Feb 27, 2014 10:59 PM
#916
tsudecimo said: yhunata said: I can't believe I forgot the referee (you're talking about the one in the Kirisaki Daiichi game, right?). On a scale of 10-10, how blind do you think he was? Overall, the second season is lacking in it's story, it's just way too corny now. But the games make up for it, though I can't say any of the games have reached Teiko vs Touou heights. Yeah agreed, that whole game was BS and boring. The flashback was also annoying and felt forced if that makes sense, it seems like a bad copy from Slam Dunk. It's lacking in everything for me, I don't think I even have the motivation to finish the season, I'm like 5 or more episodes behind. Awesome OP though. I was watching KnB2 entirely yesterday and when I was watching the Kirisaki Daiichi game, I just kept wondering how fucking stupid the referee was. Did he think that Kiyoshi just got bruised all by himself? That game was very weakly done. As for OP, first was one great, second one... not so much, imo. RedRoseFring said: yhunata said: There are plenty of "bullshit" moments in Toriko, partly because of how over-the-top it is. Still, all these bullshit moments are made pretty damn hilarious by the fact that Toriko takes itself very seriously. For example, there's this one moment while inside the Reagal Mammoth during which Rin recalls how she got the scar under her right eye..... Apparently, she cuts herself to try and imitate Toriko, but because she was looking at a mirror, she accidentally cut her right side instead of her left side (anime changed it to her getting wounded). The reason why this is a "bullshit" moment is that when you're looking into a mirror, your left side will appear on the left side. Of course, this is nothing big, but given the situation in which it was revealed, it came off as fucking hilarious. That's not a problem. She cut her right side because looking at Toriko's scar then looking into the mirror, she would have cut the side on the mirror that appeared to be her left side, but of course it would really be her right. I thought that was actually pretty simple. You can do it for yourself. Go to a mirror and place your hand on the side of your face that appears to be the left side. Step away from the mirror and you'll realize it's actually your right. I get what you're saying. She would've seen Toriko and for her, his scars would've appeared on the right side. I get it, but she would've known they were on his left side. So, unless she was drunk (which is highly unlikely, considering how much she hates alcohol), she really should've figured out that she was cutting the wrong side long before she cut herself. |
Mar 2, 2014 8:24 PM
#917
tsudecimo said: How is it not a DEM? that explanation is only an interpretation from the fans. The omniscient narrator only said it can be achieved after throwing away all of your talent, which is even more confirmed by Killua saying ''What does one have to sacrifice to achieve this aura''. It wasn't clearly stated that Gon did the restriction like how Kurapika did. It came out of no where. It was also never stated before that someone can put restriction on his nen unconsciously or in one single moment of emotional outburst. Or that someone can just sacrifice something to get a huge aura. Nothing like this happened before unless I'm forgetting some details regarding nen. It's a Deus ex Machima. I don't see how can anyone argue against it. What you said about Netero being past his prime and what it symbolize is irrelevant to whether or not it's an asspull. I never commented on the fight being good or bad. I'm specifically talking about the bomb being inside Netero, that it had zero foreshadowing. tsudecimo said: How is it not a DEM? It was within the rules of nen. One, nen restrictions have been long established. Two, it was in line with Gon's enhancement hatsu. Enhancers can "enhance" any aspect of their body so long as it is intrinsically possible (given a person's body make up). Kurapika's dowsing chain enchances cell regeneration (healing process), Palm's ability enchances hair growth, Youpi's metamorphasis enchances his natural shapeshifting abilities and Gon enchanced his body's natural aging process in order to achieve his peak form aganist Pitou. Three, the power granted from the restriction was appropriate the to vow and limitation set. It wasn't clearly stated that Gon did the restriction like how Kurapika did. It came out of no where. We do know that Gon used a nen restriction to achieve his peak form. It was heavily implied during the fight and stated explicitly in the election arc when the nen exorcist failed to remove Gon's restriction because the limitation he set on himself was far too great. A chain blade isn't necessary to set up a nen restriction. Most limitations don't even have death as a consequence. Kurapika could have easily done away with the blade which only served as a physical reminder of the limitation he placed on himself. Nen restrictions are established through strong resolve and the power granted from them has to be (1) in line with the person's nen hatsu, (2) appropriate to the vow and limitation set and (3) possible. It was also never stated before that someone can put restriction on his nen unconsciously or in one single moment of emotional outburst. The possibility of unconscious nen restrictions have been established (Komugi) and the powers granted by restrictions so far have been immediate. The nen restrictions of Kurapika, Cheetu and Phinx were all activated immediately. After setting their restrictions, the amount of nen in Kurapika's chain jail increased tremendously, Cheetu could conjure a small nen space that resembled a Savanna if he hit another person and Phinx could wind up his arm to increase the strength of his punches. Similarly, Gon was able to mature himself to his peak form once he activated the nen restriction. Moreover, if we were to look at the events of the Chimera Ant arc it becomes clear that his decision to use a nen restriction against Pitou was premeditated. Gon knew that he was grossly unmatched yet he didn't show any sign of doubt or fear during or before the palace invasion. He even told Killua that Pitou was his in episode 95 (which is why Killua said that he was going to faill into supoprt mode so that no one could interfere with his fight against Pitou). When you factor in Gon's intention of forcing Pitou to heal Kite through a fight then it all becomes clear. Given all of this it only makes sense that his decision to use nen restrictions was premeditated, otherwise, there would be a huge logical disconnect between Gon's behavior/actions and his decision to have a one on one fight in order to heal Kite. It felt like Togashi didn't know what to do with Gon and Pitou and didn't find a realistic way for Gon to leave alive so he resorted to this Deus ex. Togashi plans his stories well in advance. No one knows the exact time he planned Gon's powerup but we do know that he chose to take that path during the Phantom Troupe detour (foreshadowing of Alluka). Personally I believe that he planned it even earlier than this especially since the events in episode 95 were extremely critical in relation to Gon's story in the CA arc. I never commented on the fight being good or bad. I'm specifically talking about the bomb being inside Netero, that it had zero foreshadowing. It was actually foreshadowed far in advance. At the end of episode 88, Netero says something along the lines of "I'm not sure I can complete this mission unless a person is sacrificed". He was going to put the rose before the initial attack on the ant castle in NGL. Unfortunatrely it never happened since the king was born prematurely (one month in advance) and fled with his guards to Peijing. Note: Due to time constraints I didn't have the time to read all of the posts here pertaining to HxH and had to finish this post in a hurry. Sorry if I repeated something you already answered. |
CresherhsmMar 2, 2014 11:16 PM
Mar 3, 2014 1:04 AM
#918
Cresherhsm said: tsudecimo said: How is it not a DEM? It was within the rules of nen. One, nen restrictions have been long established. Two, it was in line with Gon's enhancement hatsu. Enhancers can "enhance" any aspect of their body so long as it is intrinsically possible (given a person's body make up). Kurapika's dowsing chain enchances cell regeneration (healing process), Palm's ability enchances hair growth, Youpi's metamorphasis enchances his natural shapeshifting abilities and Gon enchanced his body's natural aging process in order to achieve his peak form aganist Pitou. Three, the power granted from the restriction was appropriate the to vow and limitation set. It wasn't clearly stated that Gon did the restriction like how Kurapika did. It came out of no where. We do know that Gon used a nen restriction to achieve his peak form. It was heavily implied during the fight and stated explicitly in the election arc when the nen exorcist failed to remove Gon's restriction because the limitation he set on himself was far too great. A chain blade isn't necessary to set up a nen restriction. Most limitations don't even have death as a consequence. Kurapika could have easily done away with the blade which only served as a physical reminder of the limitation he placed on himself. Nen restrictions are established through strong resolve and the power granted from them has to be (1) in line with the person's nen hatsu, (2) appropriate to the vow and limitation set and (3) possible. It was also never stated before that someone can put restriction on his nen unconsciously or in one single moment of emotional outburst. The possibility of unconscious nen restrictions have been established (Komugi) and the powers granted by restrictions so far have been immediate. The nen restrictions of Kurapika, Cheetu and Phinx were all activated immediately. After setting their restrictions, the amount of nen in Kurapika's chain jail increased tremendously, Cheetu could conjure a small nen space that resembled a Savanna if he hit another person and Phinx could wind up his arm to increase the strength of his punches. Similarly, Gon was able to mature himself to his peak form once he activated the nen restriction. Moreover, if we were to look at the events of the Chimera Ant arc it becomes clear that his decision to use a nen restriction against Pitou was premeditated. Gon knew that he was grossly unmatched yet he didn't show any sign of doubt or fear during or before the palace invasion. He even told Killua that Pitou was his in episode 95 (which is why Killua said that he was going to faill into supoprt mode so that no one could interfere with his fight against Pitou). When you factor in Gon's intention of forcing Pitou to heal Kite through a fight then it all becomes clear. Given all of this it only makes sense that his decision to use nen restrictions was premeditated, otherwise, there would be a huge logical disconnect between Gon's behavior/actions and his decision to have a one on one fight in order to heal Kite. It felt like Togashi didn't know what to do with Gon and Pitou and didn't find a realistic way for Gon to leave alive so he resorted to this Deus ex. Togashi plans his stories well in advance. No one knows the exact time he planned Gon's powerup but we do know that he chose to take that path during the Phantom Troupe detour (foreshadowing of Alluka). Personally I believe that he planned it even earlier than this especially since the events in episode 95 were extremely critical in relation to Gon's story in the CA arc. I never commented on the fight being good or bad. I'm specifically talking about the bomb being inside Netero, that it had zero foreshadowing. It was actually foreshadowed far in advance. At the end of episode 88, Netero says something along the lines of "I'm not sure I can complete this mission unless a person is sacrificed". He was going to put the rose before the initial attack on the ant castle in NGL. Unfortunatrely it never happened since the king was born prematurely (one month in advance) and fled with his guards to Peijing. Note: Due to time constraints I didn't have the time to read all of the posts here pertaining to HxH and had to finish this post in a hurry. Sorry if I repeated something you already answered. Well first of all 'DEM is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly resolved by the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability or object. Depending on how it is done, it can be intended to move the story forward when the writer has "painted themself into a corner" and sees no other way out, to surprise the audience, to bring the tale to a happy ending, or as a comedic device.' We do know that Gon used a nen restriction to achieve his peak form. It was heavily implied during the fight and stated explicitly in the election arc when the nen exorcist failed to remove Gon's restriction because the limitation he set on himself was far too great. No, it wasn't hinted at the actual fight. It being stated in the next arc is Togashi's cleaning up his mess. It's a DEM, because like the definition says 'whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly resolved by the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability or object' and that what happened, it doesn't matter if the author made the best explanation in existence it doesn't change the fact that it was a DEM and an asspull. An asspull because it was never stated that throwing away your talent was an actual thing you can sacrifice or someone can get this one deal of insane power up. The others ones were stuff that you can realistically sacrifice and undoubtedly exist beyond someone perception of reality like one's own life (i.e Komugi, Kurapika). The facts were that there were no realistic ways where Gon can leave alive and to get rid of Pitou, since he wasn't with the guards and the king so he wasn't poisoned. Togashi drove himself into a corner with the situation and brought forth this shitty power up to solve it. The possibility of unconscious nen restrictions have been established (Komugi) and the powers granted by restrictions so far have been immediate. The nen restrictions of Kurapika, Cheetu and Phinx were all activated immediately. After setting their restrictions, the amount of nen in Kurapika's chain jail increased tremendously, Cheetu could conjure a small nen space that resembled a Savanna if he hit another person and Phinx could wind up his arm to increase the strength of his punches. Similarly, Gon was able to mature himself to his peak form once he activated the nen restriction. Moreover, if we were to look at the events of the Chimera Ant arc it becomes clear that his decision to use a nen restriction against Pitou was premeditated. Except Koumgi didn't do it unconsciously , she explicitly did it. She may not know of the existence of Nen but she did a restriction on herself consciously. It was real, if she lost, she would kill herself, she truly believed that and it was something that she is used to do every single time she plays from a long time ago. Gon didn't do that. The other Nen users you mentioned did, and not to mention their resolve were created from a long time ago, so it was natural. Gon did it on one moment of despair. Gon knew that he was grossly unmatched yet he didn't show any sign of doubt or fear during or before the palace invasion. He even told Killua that Pitou was his in episode 95 (which is why Killua said that he was going to faill into supoprt mode so that no one could interfere with his fight against Pitou). When you factor in Gon's intention of forcing Pitou to heal Kite through a fight then it all becomes clear. Given all of this it only makes sense that his decision to use nen restrictions was premeditated, otherwise, there would be a huge logical disconnect between Gon's behavior/actions and his decision to have a one on one fight in order to heal Kite. That's because Gon is not a normal person. Reckless behavior, stubbornness and trying to achieve what he wants no matter what is what Gon usually do. He is not analytical like Killua who avoids conflict if he thinks he has no chance of winning. This was pretty much established since the Hunter exams, with Gon constantly going against opponent who are worlds apart in terms of strength and power. He said Pitou was his because he is the target of his revenge, anger and the likes because of Kite yada yada.. and he wouldn't be okay and contented with someone else killing him. Well that's just like your intrepretation and nothing else. There were no hints, about Gon putting any sort of restrection on him before or during the palace invasion or when he knew that Kite is dead. The moment he walked into the room, he wanted to fight Pitou, in his mind if win against her in the fight, he can forces her to heal Kite. I honestly can't even understand, how are you making this weak connection. Togashi plans his stories well in advance. No one knows the exact time he planned Gon's powerup but we do know that he chose to take that path during the Phantom Troupe detour (foreshadowing of Alluka). Personally I believe that he planned it even earlier than this especially since the events in episode 95 were extremely critical in relation to Gon's story in the CA arc. It certainly doesn't feel like it. He had so many hiatuses and finished the arc in 5 years. In the final part of the invasion, you can just feel that he just wanted to end the arc. With all the cop outs and anti climax. What path? the only path that hinted regarding Gon, is the dark path and the self destruction path. It doesn't hint how exactly is he gonna self destruct himself. But a safe guess, would be through self recklessness. The events in 95 have no coreleration or foreshadowing regarding Gon's sudden power up. I'm only taking about the power up here, not how Gon is gonna act during the invasion and when he meets Pitou. It was actually foreshadowed far in advance. At the end of episode 88, Netero says something along the lines of "I'm not sure I can complete this mission unless a person is sacrificed". He was going to put the rose before the initial attack on the ant castle in NGL. Unfortunatrely it never happened since the king was born prematurely (one month in advance) and fled with his guards to Peijing. No, that foreshadowed Netero's death or one of the other guy's death. It does not foreshaodw the bomb or hints at it's existence. It's just an asspull imo and one that messes with the world logic. Chemical bombs were never used before in the HxH world. All fights were resolved through Nen and fighting. Modern weapons were shown to be useless regarding Nen battles (i.e Uvo). This was such a cop out, I never expected Netero to win but the King dies because of a bomb? are you fucking kidding me. And not only that but it conveniently killed the guards too. Why not use the bomb from the beginning. What was the fucking point of the invasion. They could have set portals to the palace, through Knov and just fucking kill them. This undermines the danger of the King and his guards so fucking much. They never had any realistic chance in dominating the world at all. I never particularly liked the deaths in HxH but the ones in Chimera ant are just anti climactic as hell. (The King and Komugi scene was great though) P.S: They are a lot of spelling errors. I'm too lazy to correct them. |
tsudecimoMar 3, 2014 1:13 AM
Mar 3, 2014 7:16 AM
#919
DEM or not... (hxh spoilers) using a bomb to pretty much resolve everything was pretty lame. It would've been far better if the hunters at least found a way to outsmart and defeat Youpi, and if Pouf gave his entire body to heal the king (so he could die on his own terms). I wouldn't have had much of a problem with that. That would have been far more interesting then taking out the most powerful ants in one fell swoop. |
gedataMar 3, 2014 7:24 AM
Mar 3, 2014 2:26 PM
#920
gedata said: DEM or not... (hxh spoilers) using a bomb to pretty much resolve everything was pretty lame. It would've been far better if the hunters at least found a way to outsmart and defeat Youpi, and if Pouf gave his entire body to heal the king (so he could die on his own terms). I wouldn't have had much of a problem with that. That would have been far more interesting then taking out the most powerful ants in one fell swoop. I feel the same way. It was a big anti climax. Pouf didn't even have one legitimate fight. And Youpi basically fought everyone except for Gon but didn't manage or wanted to finish anyone and aside from his trick against Knuckle, I thought all of his fights were extremely disappointing. They were so disjointed. What Killua did to him, undermined him and took away all sense of danger from him, it felt like they were playing with him even though he is stronger. Not to mention him transforming every five seconds... In retrospective, they only won because of Netero's bomb and Netero's bomb alone. All the other hunters simply delayed the royal guards from coming to Netero and the King. Which wouldn't have mattered anyway if they came, since bomb > them. I remember how the royal guards were hyped and how strong they appeared especially Pitou but in the end they were all taken out in a very disappointing manner. I strongly believe that Togashi didn't plan the bomb or their demise this way from the beginning but only he knows if that's true. Fights in HxH sometimes had anti climaxes but it wasn't this bad imo. |
tsudecimoMar 3, 2014 4:23 PM
Mar 3, 2014 2:53 PM
#921
You know, for once I can see where TsunTsunderecimo is coming from. It doesn't seem like he -hated- the palace invasion, just thought it could it have been handled much better. |
Mar 3, 2014 4:05 PM
#922
Definitely the Umineko no naku koro ni anime. The entire plot hinges around whether or not magic is real or not. The problem is that the story makes it INCREDIBLY obvious that magic is real. |
The more you know, the more you don't know, you know? |
Mar 3, 2014 6:25 PM
#923
Ed can do alchemy at three years of age. Screw logic!/ Ed goes to training for six months and immediately knows enough alchemy to commit Human Transmutation. |
y'all need to shut the fuck up. |
Mar 3, 2014 6:32 PM
#924
Mar 3, 2014 6:47 PM
#925
SolBlade said: UnderTheBridge said: Ed can do alchemy at three years of age. Screw logic!/ Ed goes to training for six months and immediately knows enough alchemy to commit Human Transmutation. Well... he did fail. So it isn't exactly BS. Yeah, I don't really see the problem that UnderTheBridge is talking about. |
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
Mar 3, 2014 8:51 PM
#926
Angeldust7 said: Definitely the Umineko no naku koro ni anime. The entire plot hinges around whether or not magic is real or not. The problem is that the story makes it INCREDIBLY obvious that magic is real. Ahaha.wav Maybe,in a way,this is the only success of the anime? Not BS or plothole but big LOL moments when Ange and Battler become witches |
Mar 3, 2014 10:00 PM
#927
SolBlade said: UnderTheBridge said: Ed can do alchemy at three years of age. Screw logic!/ Ed goes to training for six months and immediately knows enough alchemy to commit Human Transmutation. Well... he did fail. So it isn't exactly BS. I thought Human Transmutation always fails. |
Mar 3, 2014 10:05 PM
#928
UnderTheBridge said: Ed can do alchemy at three years of age. Screw logic!/ Ed goes to training for six months and immediately knows enough alchemy to commit Human Transmutation. 1. Having Hohenheim's blood, he (and his brother) was a genius. There is such a thing called self-study. Besides, they could only create some basic figures at the time, nothing big. 2. When they went for training they were around 8/9 years of age, meaning they had been studying alchemy and planning human transmutation for around 5-6 years. 3. Six months is a big thing. They were taught by one of the best and were taught it thoroughly. Nothing illogical there, buddy. SolBlade said: UnderTheBridge said: Ed can do alchemy at three years of age. Screw logic!/ Ed goes to training for six months and immediately knows enough alchemy to commit Human Transmutation. Well... he did fail. So it isn't exactly BS. Technically speaking, he didn't fail. It was just impossible in the first place. |
Mar 3, 2014 10:11 PM
#929
FMA:B spoilers #1) The first time Father reabsorbed Greed, he COMPLETELY reabsorbed him into his body, as in he became like he was before he gave birth to Greed. The second time he reabsorbed Greed, Greed not only retained his consciousness, he somehow was able to nullify Father’s alchemy/regeneration and turn his body into charcoal (or weak carbon), which, for some reason, Father wasn’t able to turn back to flesh, despite the fact that he STILL had THOUSANDS of souls within him. Also, it was stated his body was supposed to be MADE OF Philosopher’s Stones, not contain one like the Homunculi (in other words there’s no part of him, except for his soul, that’s not a Philosopher’s Stone). However, when a hole was punched him him, they are all suddenly seen escaping. When Father punched a hole in Hohenheim (and when he was shot many times in the manga), the souls didn’t escape. Also, how could Father destroy Greed just by biting down on him, especially if he was in such a “weakened” state? #2) Father’s arm was still inside of Ling AFTER he removed all of his Philosopher’s Stone and Greed. How was Ling able to survive being run through if Father removed his Philospher’s Stone? Seems this was done/stretched just for the sake of convenience to the plot. #3) Also, did Ling actually figure out how to gain immortality with the Philosopher’s Stone he took back to Xing? If not, why did he become emperor? And if he didn’t learn how to insert it into himself to make himself immortal while in Amestris, who’s to say the emperor simply wouldn’t have taken it from him to use on himself? In the manga, May said that the emperor is the kind of person who might do that, hence why she didn’t want to take back to him the method of creating the Stone, or the fact that it’s composed of human souls—because he just might actually try to make one to prolong his life. #4) King Bradley constantly keeps his Ultimate Eye covered with an eyepatch. Yet somehow, he is still able to use it to dodge and predict anything and everything. He also removed this patch when fighting Greed/Ling at Central HQ, commenting that, like when he fought Ling before, that it was his “blind spot.” So, he is able to, at least partially, see through what we assume is a completely opaque material (or it could just be inconsistent writing either way—he can use it when covered by his eyepatch, but it’s still somehow his “blind spot?”). However, Buccaneer is able to stab him by thrusting his sword through Fu into Bradley, impaling both of them, commenting that “even with Godlike eyes, there’s no way you can dodge an attack that you can’t see!” A solid, opaque object (Fu) was blocking Buccaneer, just like how Bradley’s eyepatch is a solid, opaque object. Seems like this was done for convenience of the story. -->#4a) A supplement to that: How would Bradley be able to avoid a _hail_ of bullets? Some of the bullets/artillery shells would block from view some of the other bullets/artillery shells, especially when facing a whole platoon or army. Futhermore, when he was still rising up through the ranks as a young man, wouldn’t it be possible that some of the higher caliber bullets could pass through the men nearby/in front of him who were blocking his view and still be able to hit him without him seeing them? He explained to Greed that his Ultimate Eye is the reason he was able to “dodge flying bullets on the battlefield” and rise to his current rank, but situations like the ones just mentioned must have arisen at some point, right? -->#4b) Also, the ONLY thing I can think of to explain that is that his eyepatch appears opaque from the outside, but allows him to at least partially see through it from the inside? Even this is somewhat of a stretch, though, in my opinion. #5) Why do Selim and King Bradley act like father and son even when no one is around or when they think no one is around? They seem to have an inconsistent relationship (sometimes occasionally when no one is around, their roles will switch; Selim is Pride and older than/senior to King Bradley/Wrath). Also, why would Selim drop over and over again to his mother and others around him that he admires/likes/wants to be like the Fullmetal Alchemist all the time? Wouldn’t it be smarter not to do that, as a homunculus? And how come his eyes glaze over and he gets so excited when he meets Alphonse? I don’t think he could be that good of an actor—it’s not all that believable. Neither is his complete personality change from when we think he’s just a normal boy, Selim Bradley, to when we find out he’s actually Pride. It’s just not portrayed/developed well, in my opinion. #6) Why the HELL would Lust think it’s okay to kill both Alphonse and Roy Mustang? NONE of the other homunculi, including Father, EVER try to kill EITHER of them, EVEN when they discover the nationwide transmutation circle, AND stumble across Father’s lair. Even after Lust is killed, they never take it even close to that level by trying to harm or eliminate any of them. Totally inconsistent and ridiculous. Lust is also aware of Father and the other homunculi’s motives and what they are and are not willing to do, and that totally goes against that. She would’ve majorly screwed things up/made things difficult for Father if she had actually killed them, and I’m sure none of the other homunculi would’ve been happy with her if she had done that OR handled it in the way she did. #7) Pride doesn’t seem to be injured in the same way as the other homunculi when fighting Heinkel, and isn’t seen regenerating, but still comments his Philosopher’s Stone has been weakened from fighting him. This is odd and inconsistent. #8) How could Edward know what would happen when he made himself into a Philosopher’s Stone to invade Pride? He could’ve been lost in the torrent of souls or sucked in by Pride; he has no idea what would’ve happened. #9) Is Pride’s “true form” shadows or the small infant seen after Edward defeats him? They’re completely different substances. Selim says he needs a new “container” when his body is breaking down , but what’s left when he is defeated IS a container. Also, Hohenheim remarks that Father made Pride in his image—as a mass of shadows, implying that the SHADOWS may actually be his real body. Hard to make sense of this.. it seems a little inconsistent. #10) Father DOES seem to genuinely care for his “children” at first (except for Greed, whom he only melted down and reabsorbed because he openly rebelled against him and was potentially a big liability). He toasts the rest of the homunculi goodwill after reabsorbing Greed, calls Gluttony “my son” and takes care to recreate him with all of his former powers and memory intact after his Stone runs out, AND seems to confirm by his reaction Hohenheim’s accusation that the REAL reason he expelled his sins and created the Homunculi is because he wanted a family. Yet all of a sudden he abandons Pride, and Edward does convince Pride (or at least gets under his skin about it) that Father doesn’t care about him. This COULD be interpreted as Father simply wanted to take care of business and then return to Pride, or thought Pride could handle himself. Things don’t QUITE add up no matter which way you look at it. ***#11) Scar: this is a big one. So, it’s eventually discovered when he’s fighting King Bradley that before the Promised Day, he tattooed his left arm with his brother’s reconstruction array. So, he uses his right arm to destroy surrounding materials and sever Bradley’s arms, and his left arm to CREATE spikes which rise up from the ground. HOWEVER, it has been stated many, many times throughout the series, the three steps of alchemy are: understanding, deconstruction, and reconstruction. In other words, you have to 1) Know what you’re deconstructing, 2) BREAK IT DOWN, and 3) reconstruct it. That arm ONLY has the array for RECONSTRUCTION on it. Therefore, he shouldn’t be able to transmute ANYTHING without using BOTH of his hands (or perhaps even clapping them together first like Kimblee did to perform his alchemy), to deconstruct and THEN reconstruct it. The only thing I could POSSIBLY see his left arm being able to do (and this is a stretch, since it’s been made very clear you HAVE to go in order with those three steps of alchemy and there haven’t been any other cases of an entire step being skipped in the manga or in Brotherhood) without his right arm is bonding things together, like turning hydrogen and oxygen in the air into water, etc. #12) Mustang—If he couldn’t see, how could he clap his hands and create that barrier from the ground when fighting Father with Hawkeye? He couldn’t see what material, or at least what kind of stone, he was transmuting. It’s possible he just already knew since he’s been in HQ a lot, but not necessarily in that particular area of HQ. Edward couldn’t break Buccaneer’s automail arm when fighting him for the first time near Briggs Fortress because he didn’t know what it was composed of (he thought it was made of iron, but it wasn’t). Also, if I remember correctly there are other times when characters used deconstruction without knowing what they were deconstructing. #13) Sloth didn’t need to be hurt/killed as many times as the other Homunculi, especially Envy/Lust—look how many times they are “killed” vs. the few times Sloth is killed. Yes he suffered massive damage each of those times, but Lust/Envy often had their WHOLE BODY incinerated; one time Mustang even took Lust’s Philosopher’s stone out and it had to regenerate her body from NOTHING, which is equivalent to destroying her ENTIRE BODY once (Sloth never incurred that much damage), and regenerating it once. -->#13a) Note: I admit this MAY be because Sloth is bigger and therefore has much more mass than the other homunculi, therefore takes more energy to regenerate his whole body; still though, that might be a stretch. #14) Why didn’t Edward keep his automail as diamond-hard carbon when fighting Father? It wouldn’ t have been destroyed then, most likely. It seemed to be in this form when fighting Pride in Father’s lair, because he was able to block his attacks. Did he THEN transmute it back afterwards?? Why? Seems like this was done SOLELY so that Alphonse would later transmute his soul to restore his flesh-and-blood arm, when in fact that situation was easily avoidable by Edward. #15) Greed- I think it’s idiotic that Greed doesn’t fully (or even close to fully, really) harden his body when fighting others, especially homunculi. I know he explained that he doesn’t LIKE to because it covers his handsome face, but if that’s the case, WHY would he break it out almost right away when fighting Edward and Izumi, and then NEVER use it again until the VERY end as Greed/Ling (junk like this has been done in other anime series too—a character will go full-out in his first appearance, but then never do that again for the rest of the series, even when his life is in danger; it’s just done to “punch up” the story or something at the expense of inconsistency)? Had he done this, instead of simply only hardening his arms as he usually does, he wouldn’t have been captured and melted down by father, would basically be nearly invincible when fighting (except against alchemists) and could make short work of his opponents, and most importantly, had NO REASON to run away from or be scared of Bradley when he attacked him in his residence and Bradley tried to decapitate him. This is DEFINITELY done for the convenience of the story, in my opinion. No fun having a character that’s too powerful or invincible, so we’ll just make it that he’s too dense to figure out he could win ALL his fights and not get himself into NEARLY as much trouble if he just completely used his powers rather than half-assing it. Total crap. Bradley could never beat him if he fully used his Ultimate Shield, and neither could Pride. Making it so he doesn't utilize it fully most of the time when he easily could only creates forced and artificial tension/drama. #16) The thing with Greed being able to regenerate but Bradley not being able to just isn’t explained well, or at least fully (yeah, you could argue his thing about explaining that after fighting the Philosopher’s Stone when first becoming Wrath he was left with one soul and therefore couldn’t regenerate.. but I don’t buy it. How could he have any powers as a homunculus anyway with just ONE soul, like any ordinary humans? Their super speed/strength/etc. assumedly comes from the stone, which contains a multitude of souls). Although Bradley’s missing ability to regenerate might explain his aging (all the other homunculi who can regenerate don’t age, although not enough time passed to see if Greed/Ling would age), it still seems like this was done for convenience—he’s already hard to kill with his Ultimate Eye, so he would’ve been impossible for the characters to kill if he could regenerate as well. #17) The thing about Hohenheim dying at the end because he ran out of Stone.. I don’t buy it. He should’ve become a normal human if he had only his soul left. Furthermore, Bradley said he was left with only one soul after becoming Wrath, and Hohenheim is very similar to a Homunculus anyway (the structure of his body is identical to Father’s). Bradley didn’t deteriorate into nothing and/or die after this, and neither should Hohenheim have. Maybe my argument is a stretch here, but I still think it’s dumb that he died at the end just because he only had one soul left. #18) Eclipses don’t usually last as long as was depicted; Father should’ve started his transmutation RIGHT before the moon completely covered the sun, not right when it did. By doing that he risked the eclipse ending and the circle surrounding the eclipse dissipating before opening the Sun’s door/gate. #19) Although Alphonse was very upset when he met his body in front of the doors when his soul left his armor body after it was transported to Father’s lair along with Edward, Izumi, and Mustang, because he knew that it was so atrophied and weak that he wouldn’t be able to use it to fight… WHAT could he have traded to get it back??? The body was calling his soul to it, as in the body probably wanted his soul to return to it in the gate/doors. Did Alphonse really think he could just take his body back to Father’s lair without paying a price? This part definitely doesn’t add up. AND Alphonse is an accomplished alchemist who’s even seen the Truth; there’s no way he could be so dumb or ignorant as to not know that he’d have to pay something to get his body back and couldn’t just “take it with him” just because. Makes no sense at all. If anything, trying to unite his body and soul would end with BOTH being trapped in the gate/doors. Although, really, Alphonse probably should have just stayed there, at least for a period of time (if that was an option), without uniting with his body, so that Father wouldn’t have a fifth sacrifice to use. #20) Aren’t Ed, Al, Izumi, Mustang, and Hohenheim supposed to be human _sacrifices_?? They weren’t sacrificed at all; they were fine at the end, and Father even had to try to kill them AFTER the eclipse transmutation was over because they were clearly not dead. What was their role in the transmutation, why were they even required? I think if these were five random Alchemists that the reader was not familiar with OR were just people that the homunculi forced to perform human transmutation who weren’t major characters or important to the plot, Arakawa would’ve written it so that they would’ve died. But obviously no one would want to see five major characters die, so it was, in my opinion, done for convenience of the plot. #21) Mustang should’ve lost his eyes, not just his eyesight, in the human transmutation, just like Judau did in the “Blind Alchemist” side story. This is just straight inconsistency, which in my opinion arose most likely because 1) readers didn’t want to see him without his handsome face, i.e. missing eyeballs & scars around his eyes, 2) the author intended his sight to be restored later (psh, like I never saw that one coming.. he kept his eyeballs to make that easier to happen for God’s sake). You could argue the punishment might’ve been lesser because it was a FORCED human transmutation that was performed against his will, but still—that might be a stretch. I mean he even gained knowledge from the doors/gate in exchange—he could use the clapping transmutation after that, so it was a legit human transmutation. #22) Why would Father and the other homunculi have waited till the last minute to finish up SO much of this stuff? They had over 400 years. If Sloth was even slightly slower in carving the tunnel, it never would’ve worked out. They should’ve gotten on the thing with Ishval and Briggs WAY earlier. Also, letting Mustang roam (relatively) free instead of holding him like they did Marcoh allowed him to rebel and could have cost them dearly. #23) Forcing someone to perform a human transmutation is ridiculous anyway, in my opinion. I think Arakawa might’ve painted herself into a corner with that one (just couldn’t figure out how to make it so Marcoh or Mustang would willingly perform human transmutation, or accidentally developed them so much that it would’ve then been very out-of-character to do that), and used that as an “out.” By the way, one of the sacrifices is going to be a Philosopher’s Stone in human form (Hohenheim)? How do you know that’s even gonna work?? He’s not actually a human anymore. Wouldn’t that screw things up? How do you know if that would even work out? Plus, you think it’s gonna be easy to subdue a human Philosopher’s Stone? Finally, Hohenheim has powers equivalent or near-equivalent to Father; if he HADN’T reached Father’s lair first, or hadn’t come in time, would father actually have been able to use alchemy to transport him there like he did with Ed, Al, Izumi and Mustang? Who’s to say he wouldn’t be able to resist something like that, considering he and Father are identical? AND Father tried to steal his Philosopher’s Stone before the eclipse transmutation? Wouldn’t that kill him and therefore eliminate him for use as a sacrifice? -->#23a) Come to think of it, much of the way Father planned his grand scheme seems rather poorly thought out and could have easily failed. #24) Why did Father return to his original ball-of-shadows form when he was brought before the doors/gate at the end? Hadn’t he said before, when Hohenheim destroyed his body and it was revealed that his shadow form had grown to adult size, that he had evolved beyond that form in the 400 years since he was a ball of shadows in Xerxes? To me this is equivalent to a human infant growing up into an adult in the country of Amestris, then being reduced back to an infant when brought before the doors. #25) I almost decided to let this one go, but alas, here we go: we’ve discovered that Father used the machine in his lair to spread the Philosopher’s Stone in his body throughout Amestris to dampen the effects of alchemy in that country, and to “turn off” alchemy there when needed. However, we’ve also discovered that Philosopher’s Stones usually have a size proportional to how many souls they contain. The number of people in Xerxes when the populace there was transmuted into a Stone was at least one million (AFTER using the stones in his body to perform some alchemy, and setting up his own nationwide transmutation circle, Hohenheim stated that he had a little over 500,000 souls in his body). With all of the people there, Xerxes is much smaller in physical size than Amestris. So, would half of the souls in Xerxes really be enough to completely cover the ground in Amestris (or really under the ground, but you know what I mean)? ***#26) Long-distance transmutation- ah, this is a big one, and one of my favorite (or least favorite) plot holes in the manga and Brotherhood. It’s said that alchemy is incapable of long-distance transmutation, while alkahestry (also known as "rentanjutsu") is. The long-distance transmutation is done by drawing a transmutation array on the ground, putting knives in each of the points of the array, reading the “dragon’s pulse” to understand where the flow of chi in the Earth lies and in what direction(s) it’s flowing, throwing ANOTHER set of knives at a distant object in the same formation as the original set of knives, and then transmuting. HOWEVER, there have also been instances of somewhat long-distance alchemy transmutation in the manga. Kimblee is seen doing it when he kills Scar’s family. Edward is seen doing it when chasing after Paninya in the mountainous area of Rush Valley (this is the most obvious example, ESPECIALLY in Brotherhood). And there are many other instances of that happening throughout the series; an alchemist is able to transmute a distant object or set of objects, often by letting the alchemic energy they’re using flow through the ground, or a nearby wall or path. Yet the Elrics are very surprised when they see May do her long distance transmutation, when they themselves are capable of similar or near-similar feats. I just don’t think this was thought out very well by Arakawa beforehand, or she slipped up and wrote some inconsistencies without thinking about it, because I’m still not entirely sure of the difference between long-distance alkahestry transmutation and just transmuting a not-so-nearby object using alchemy. *A lot of plot points, including the ones above, seem to arise from dumb luck, and involve poor planning/leaving things to chance on the part of several characters, and it often seems like the author didn’t think it all the way through. AND it seems like a lot of the inconsistencies also arise from, as mentioned before in some places, for the sake of CONVENIENCE to the story. Things like that really cheapen it, in my opinion. |
Mar 4, 2014 5:31 AM
#930
tsudecimo said: gedata said: DEM or not... (hxh spoilers) using a bomb to pretty much resolve everything was pretty lame. It would've been far better if the hunters at least found a way to outsmart and defeat Youpi, and if Pouf gave his entire body to heal the king (so he could die on his own terms). I wouldn't have had much of a problem with that. That would have been far more interesting then taking out the most powerful ants in one fell swoop. I feel the same way. It was a big anti climax. Pouf didn't even have one legitimate fight. And Youpi basically fought everyone except for Gon but didn't manage or wanted to finish anyone and aside from his trick against Knuckle, I thought all of his fights were extremely disappointing. They were so disjointed. What Killua did to him, undermined him and took away all sense of danger from him, it felt like they were playing with him even though he is stronger. Not to mention him transforming every five seconds... In retrospective, they only won because of Netero's bomb and Netero's bomb alone. All the other hunters simply delayed the royal guards from coming to Netero and the King. Which wouldn't have mattered anyway if they came, since bomb > them. I remember how the royal guards were hyped and how strong they appeared especially Pitou but in the end they were all taken out in a very disappointing manner. I strongly believe that Togashi didn't plan the bomb or their demise this way from the beginning but only he knows if that's true. Fights in HxH sometimes had anti climaxes but it wasn't this bad imo. tsudecimo said: 'DEM is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly resolved by the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability or object. Depending on how it is done, it can be intended to move the story forward when the writer has "painted themself into a corner" Except Togashi planned this well in advance. It wasn't a “new event” or “ability”. Nen restrictions have been long established the power granted from it was in line with Gon’s enhancement hatsu (enhanced the natural aging process) and appropriate to the vow and limitation set. Immense power can be granted through restrictions so long as the limitation is equally immense and the power granted from it is possible and in line with a person’s nen category (or at least the categories he could use adequately) and Gon’s power up passes all three conditions. Not only that but Togashi has been building up Gon ever since he decided to take on Pitou as someone who clearly had a plan in mind. Despite his admission of weakness in episode 91, he was confident about taking on Pitou, an opponent who grossly outmatched him, one on one, even going as far as promising that he would definitely get Kite back (and Gon doesn’t break promises). It wasn’t something that he had to “weasel his way out of either” since Gon’s near demise through his powerup was thought of as early as the PT detour (where Alluka was foreshadowed in the Zoldyck family photo). The facts were that there were no realistic ways where Gon can leave alive and to get rid of Pitou, since he wasn't with the guards and the king so he wasn't poisoned. Togashi drove himself into a corner with the situation and brought forth this shitty power up to solve it. I don’t know if you’re aware of this but the CA arc is a tribute to DBZ’s cell saga. The King and his guards are far and above any other characters in the series in terms of power and that was the point. The CA arc was a “HxH take” on monstrously powerful enemies. He could easily have written Youpi off (he could have made Knuckle not give in) but he still needed Youpi to aid in order to aid in feeding the King (Pouf still had so much to do so Youpi was needed to lighten the load), for his important role in Pouf’s latter game with the King and to hint that the bomb contained poison (his inexplicable death and Welfin swearing that Youpi died before his attack even hit him). His role wasn’t over yet. No, it wasn't hinted at the actual fight. It was heavily implied. - His line of "I don't care if it's over so I'll use everything" is when he activated his nen restriction. - Killua's statement of "This is a form that should have taken him countless years of training to reach" means that this form attainable and that Gon achieved his peak form. His long hair is also a sign of the drastic aging process he underwent. - Killua's statement of "Just what must one sacrifice for an aura of this magnitude" meant that Gon had to give something up in order to attain that power (that Gon placed a limitation on himself). Then it was explicitly stated in the election arc but you wrote that off as Togashi cleaning up his mess so alright. We won’t get anywhere arguing about that. It was real, if she lost, she would kill herself, she truly believed that and it was something that she is used to do every single time she plays from a long time ago. Gon didn't do that. The other Nen users you mentioned did, and not to mention their resolve were created from a long time ago, so it was natural. Gon did it on one moment of despair. I stated the other nen users and their restrictions because the power they received from them (the restrictions) were immediate, just like Gons. And I only answered your part about Komugi in order to correct you and point out that not all nen restrictions are set up like Kurapikas, since you seemed to be fixated on that point, and not because I was arguing that Gon set it unconsciously. The reason why we can’t progress in this part of the argument is because we disagree about Gon’s power up being premeditated. So let’s get to that right now. That's because Gon is not a normal person. Reckless behavior, stubbornness and trying to achieve what he wants no matter what is what Gon usually do. I agree but Gon's recklessness throughout the series wasn't baseless. When he jumped out of the ship to save a crew member in episode one he only did it because he had faith that Kurapika and Leorio would catch him. He reached into Bourbon's body because he knew that there was a good chance that he carried an antidote with him. He blew up his arm against Genthru because he had faith in the plan he, Killua and Bisky came up with and knew that they would win (enter the "Breath of the Archangel" card and viola). When things really got dangerous on the other hand, Gon reacts like any normal person. He was nervous when he tracked Hisoka alone and before their fight in Heaven’s arena. He was scared when he saw met Mike (sweat like crazy and refused to fight him if you don’t remember) and fazed when the Spiders discovered their whereabouts. The only reason why Gon attacked Neferpitou in episode 85 was because a person whom he loved was in danger and that took precedence over his own well-being. Was there anything Gon could put his faith into besides sacrificing his natural talent (or ability to use nen) through a nen restriction in a one on one fight against Pitou? Nothing at all. He knew he was weak and he was going to fight an incredibly strong creature one on one. Yet despite this he didn't show any signs of doubt or fear. On the other hand, he was confident that he was going to get Kite back. It’s clear that he had a plan, otherwise there would be a huge logical disconnect between Gon's behavior/actions and his decision to have a one on one fight in order to heal Kite. The moment he walked into the room, he wanted to fight Pitou, in his mind if win against her in the fight, he can forces her to heal Kite. I honestly can't even understand, how are you making this weak connection. Okay and how exactly was he going to win? He was going up against a person who killed an extremely skilled Hunter like Kite one on one. Even after all that training with Biscuit Gon still couldn't beat Knuckle. He knew he was weak (“I never knew how frustrating weakness could be”) and he hated it. He despised the fact that his "being weak" resulted in the death of a person he loved and respected and this bothered him to no end. It was actually foreshadowed far in advance. At the end of episode 88, Netero says something along the lines of "I'm not sure I can complete this mission unless a person is sacrificed". He was going to put the rose before the initial attack on the ant castle in NGL. Unfortunately it never happened since the king was born prematurely (one month in advance) and fled with his guards to Peijing. No, that foreshadowed Netero's death or one of the other guy's death. It does not foreshaodw the bomb or hints at it's existence. Well of course it couldn’t be explicit (it’s foreshadowing), what did you expect him to say? It's good foreshadowing and the line itself was placed at the best place, when they were still planning to attack the castle at NGL. The attack never happened because the King was born but that means Netero thought about it before the first attempt in NGL and not only before the attack at the palace in Peijing. You mentioned that it was a generic line people would use before a dangerous mission but it’s far from that. Netero said “It may be impossible to complete his mission unless someone is sacrificed”. He didn’t say “without a few people”, he said “someone”. He didn’t say “without a few loses or deaths” he said ”sacrifice”. Let’s assume that they did attack the ant castle in NGL (King was never born and Netero ends up dying in a fight against the Royal Guards, activating the rose bomb in the process. How would “It may be impossible to complete his mission unless someone is sacrificed” be poor foreshadowing? I think it’s the length between the foreshadowing and the actual bomb detonation that’s getting to you but that makes the foreshadowing so much stronger since it was foreshadowed well , planned far in advance and placed at the best place possible (at the first instant it could be placed and not at the second). In other words, before the supposed NGL castle attack and not before the palace invasion). Even ignoring the foreshadowing completely, Netero was extremely well prepared for the fight. Although we didn't see much besides a meditation scene we do know that Netero spent the entire 10 "waiting days" prepping up for the invasion and his fight with Meruem. The amount of preparation and thought Netero put into invasion can be seen in his line to Pitou during the Dragon Shower "I've been anticipating a few different kinds of attacks but that's a bad move little ant". The man was well aware of the immense weight his fight with the King carried. In a situation like that, it's really only common sense to have a contingency plan. "Let's see if I can beat the King" wouldn't make sense for anyone, especially for a devilish well-prepared man like Netero. Chemical bombs were never used before in the HxH world. All fights were resolved through Nen and fighting. It’s been established that the HxH world is similar to ours with cars, fighter jets, tanks, cell phones, skyscrapers, modern airships, etc. Moreover, one major theme of the arc is humanity’s endless potential to do evil. Togashi explores this the entire arc with dictatorships, drug factories, human trafficking, etc. The rose bomb was the “crowning jewel” of that entire theme. In the end, Meruem underestimated this potential and that’s why he lost. Check out the last panel of this page until page 18: http://www.mangareader.net/hunter-x-hunter/311/11 Modern weapons were shown to be useless regarding Nen battles (i.e Uvo) Except were talking about a weapon of mass destruction here, not a bazooka he was able to block with one hand. As for the poison the bomb carried, that’s something not even nen could stop. Why not use the bomb from the beginning. What was the fucking point of the invasion. They could have set portals to the palace, through Knov and just fucking kill them. Because Netero was leading the mission. The world leaders absolved themselves from any involvement in the ants situation and the Vice Chairman was doing everything in his power to make the Chairman fail. He was the one who hand-picked the Hunters who would participate in the misson and was in charge of the entire plan. As you know, having read the manga, Netero is a bored man as a result several years at the top unchallenged. He loves the thrill of a challenge more than anything (dodgeball game with Gon and Killua and making the association harder for him to govern by making Partison is Vice Chairman) and enjoys testing the limits of those around him (last phase of the Hunter Exams and his challenge to Gon and Killua to beat Knuckle and Shoot). His goal in life was to have a fight with a worthy opponent where he could give it his all and he saw that in the King and his Royal Guards. He had the rose bomb implanted in him as a contingency so he was going to hit two birds with one stone either way (whether or not he lost his fight with the King or not). There is also the issue of thousands of people living in Peijing but that didn’t really matter to Netero since he subscribes to the “end justifies the means” philosophy (he was willing to have 5 million people die in order to lie low until the selection day). Keep in mind that the primary goal of the mission was the King's death, anything else would've been the bonus. The punitive team's mission was to separate the RG from the King for as long as possible so that Netero could have the King all to himself. You also seem to be forgetting that Knov was only able to get deep into the palace and plant exits because Pitou wasn’t using her en to guard the palace perimeter but that’s beside the point, there was no way Netero was going to bomb his dream away without having a taste first. It certainly doesn't feel like it. He had so many hiatuses and finished the arc in 5 years. In the final part of the invasion, you can just feel that he just wanted to end the arc. With all the cop outs and anti climax. Actually this is the arc that Togashi put the most thought into and anyone who could appreciate the invasion and can see the immense amount of thought that was put into it. This is the arc where Togashi explored his creative license to the fullest and it shows. Remember those two consecutive episodes that seemed oddly similar to each other (episodes 109 and 110). Togashi took one of his longest hiatuses after the manga chapters covered in 109 and planned most of the invasion. When he came back he fleshed out characters and refining story events that weren’t important before but were going to be for the remainder of the arc. As usual, I’ll agree with the art. Those black panels during Meruem’s death were definitely lazy, though Togashi never slacks with his story. Of course, with the exception of Alluka's exception of Killua in the next arc, which is something that will always leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Arcs ending in an anti-climatic manner aren’t new in HxH. In the Hunter Exam, Gon was knocked out by Hanzo and the rest of the tournament was shown in flashbacks. In the Zoldyck arc, Gon and co dangerous trip up the mountain was put to a stop when Killua’s dad casually let him go. Yorknew had Kurapika incapacitated by a sickness and most of the spiders getting out alive. This discussion looks like it's going to be a long one and my schedule at the moment, especially in the coming two weeks is going to be pretty tight. I was thought that I could handle a discussion about Gon's powerup but the scope of our discussion is evolving to be a lot more than that. So with that said, this will be my last post in this thread. |
CresherhsmMar 4, 2014 10:50 PM
Mar 4, 2014 7:19 AM
#931
Mar 4, 2014 11:19 PM
#932
Cresherhsm said: This discussion looks like it's going to be a long one and my schedule at the moment, especially in the coming two weeks is going to be pretty tight. I was thought that I could handle a discussion about Gon's powerup but the scope of our discussion is evolving to be a lot more than that. So with that said, this will be my last post in this thread. I will reply to you then, when you think you are free or maybe when they animate that part :P |
Mar 4, 2014 11:35 PM
#933
tsudecimo said: Cresherhsm said: This discussion looks like it's going to be a long one and my schedule at the moment, especially in the coming two weeks is going to be pretty tight. I was thought that I could handle a discussion about Gon's powerup but the scope of our discussion is evolving to be a lot more than that. So with that said, this will be my last post in this thread. I will reply to you then, when you think you are free or maybe when they animate that part :P I'm up for that. |
Mar 4, 2014 11:43 PM
#934
Mar 5, 2014 10:06 AM
#935
I stopped watching code geass when they had that part where they blow up the building they are inside of to escape. I don't even remember the details because it was so dumb imo. |
Mar 5, 2014 1:48 PM
#936
gedata said: SolBlade said: tsudecimo said: Lots of text Damn... you're probably one of the few people here who actually pointed out possible flaws in Fullmetal Alchemist. Going against the norm, eh? It was actually someone else's doing: http://www.fullmetal-alchemist.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13702 I thought it was obvious, since the style of writing is completely different and all. I honestly don't even remember what he is talking about since it's been so long since I watched FMA. I was so surprised to find so much criticism towards the series, I couldn't even find that much when I Google one piece's or Naruto's. I wanted to correct them but I didn't :P. |
Mar 5, 2014 1:53 PM
#937
tsudecimo said: gedata said: SolBlade said: tsudecimo said: Lots of text Damn... you're probably one of the few people here who actually pointed out possible flaws in Fullmetal Alchemist. Going against the norm, eh? It was actually someone else's doing: http://www.fullmetal-alchemist.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13702 I thought it was obvious, since the style of writing is completely different and all. I honestly don't even remember what he is talking about since it's been so long since I watched FMA. I was so surprised to find so much criticism towards the series, I couldn't even find that much when I Google one piece's or Naruto's. I wanted to correct them but I didn't :P. eh I deleted the message anyhow, didn't quite get my points out the way I wanted to. |
Mar 5, 2014 1:56 PM
#938
I thought your point made sense regarding longer series. How many of those are legitimate anyway? there is probably some nitpicks there. |
Mar 5, 2014 2:02 PM
#939
I never notice any plotholes when watching anime - I simply don't care enough about the consistency of the story to really dig into all that stuff. All I care about is the things I do understand about the story. Guilty Crown is my favorite anime, and apparently it's known for having a really in-consistent story and some fucked up character development (I kinda get that a lot). But I don't care, cuz' I think it does everything just right. - Says anders as he shamelessly advertises his favorite anime. |
Mar 5, 2014 3:55 PM
#940
Mirai Nikki. Even though I like it .. they just suddenly when dragon ball Z and just had powers that were never explained. and probably the " berserk " modes in all of the evangelion rebuild movies because going berserk mode was something that was really rare and was really bad but in the rebuild movies it was glorified and was " sooooo cool ". |
Mar 5, 2014 10:02 PM
#941
WayneCon said: Mirai Nikki. Even though I like it .. they just suddenly when dragon ball Z and just had powers that were never explained. and probably the " berserk " modes in all of the evangelion rebuild movies because going berserk mode was something that was really rare and was really bad but in the rebuild movies it was glorified and was " sooooo cool ". Didnt the first two movies have only 2 Berserk modes, at least one less than the original?So how was it more rare in the original? And only one of them was "so coool" because this time it wasnt mommy to the rescue |
Mar 5, 2014 10:09 PM
#942
The entire Campione story line. i recently watched it and all the MC did was lock lips with a different girl in every episode. but do keep in mind it was all in the name of saving the world! |
"When you walk in a dream but you know you're not dreaming Signore Scuzza me, but you see, back in old Napoli that's amore" |
Mar 5, 2014 10:13 PM
#943
Oh and, pardon my french but, what the F@*K was Mawaru Penguindrum about!?! The entire series was a big gaping plot hole! |
"When you walk in a dream but you know you're not dreaming Signore Scuzza me, but you see, back in old Napoli that's amore" |
Mar 5, 2014 10:25 PM
#944
ShiroNeko89 said: The entire Campione story line. i recently watched it and all the MC did was lock lips with a different girl in every episode. but do keep in mind it was all in the name of saving the world! Not like he doesnt do that in the novels but there are more things to do except kissing. ShiroNeko89 said: Oh and, pardon my french but, what the F@*K was Mawaru Penguindrum about!?! The entire series was a big gaping plot hole! Metaphors and symbolism that not all care about. |
Mar 5, 2014 11:46 PM
#945
Skateboarding mecha to outsmart the empire - code geass. God that was stupid. |
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Mar 6, 2014 4:18 PM
#946
Naruto naruto vs sasuke: rasengan and chidori . what is more important nature or shape? supposedly chidori. why both techniques have the same power? 2. the first the first meeting between tobi and Madara..... Etc Naruto sucks Fairy Tail natsu ate etherion and he became stronger |
cronosteso23Mar 6, 2014 4:25 PM
Gintama: "The blade is not to cut down your enemies Nor is it to cut away your own weakness A sword isnt meant to protect your body A sword is meant for protecting your soul" |
Mar 6, 2014 4:28 PM
#947
tsudecimo said: gedata said: SolBlade said: tsudecimo said: Lots of text Damn... you're probably one of the few people here who actually pointed out possible flaws in Fullmetal Alchemist. Going against the norm, eh? It was actually someone else's doing: http://www.fullmetal-alchemist.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13702 I thought it was obvious, since the style of writing is completely different and all. I honestly don't even remember what he is talking about since it's been so long since I watched FMA. I was so surprised to find so much criticism towards the series, I couldn't even find that much when I Google one piece's or Naruto's. I wanted to correct them but I didn't :P. I had a feeling you wouldn't write that much... I'm surprised at the amount of criticism too, especially for something like FMA Brotherhood. |
Mar 6, 2014 4:38 PM
#948
cronosteso23 said: Naruto naruto vs sasuke: rasengan and chidori . what is more important nature or shape? supposedly chidori. why both techniques have the same power? 2. the first the first meeting between tobi and Madara..... Etc What? I honestly never understood one single post you have written ever. |
Mar 6, 2014 4:46 PM
#949
SolBlade said: I had a feeling you wouldn't write that much... I'm surprised at the amount of criticism too, especially for something like FMA Brotherhood. Most of it are nitpicks from a butthurt fan who prefer the 2003 version of the anime though. |
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