To those that hate GC

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Nov 2012

Not really evolution is evil. But the fact that building a world with Sin as the building block is evil. To be removed of free will.

Dec 26, 2012 4:29 PM

Red_Keys

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Sep 2012

19234

Actually, this is pretty interesting. My comment about evolution was mostly a joke, btw.

But what would you say their "goal" for making it so based on religion is? Like does the religious symbolism have a purpose? Or is it just there? Does it actually add substance? Or is it just to give the illusion of looking deep?

Red_KeysDec 26, 2012 4:32 PM

Dec 26, 2012 5:09 PM

Amon-Raw

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Jul 2012

745

If your looking for connections to religion you could always watch To aru Majutsu or play some Shin Megami games I would suggest Devil survivor the first one which the main character and his brother are reincarnations of Cain and Able.
Also Persona Trinity the main character and his brothers persona is Cain and Able.
It's a unique interpretation though.

Dec 26, 2012 5:13 PM

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Nov 2012

I'm not sure about the goal but I'm pretty sure that was their intent. The name is Guilty Crown. I read that as someone who isn't worthy but possessed the power of God. Or it could mean the actual crown that was worn by Jesus. It either means to carry the guilt of the world or it means the guilt of living as a human?

To me it added a whole lot of substance. Without thinking about the meaning of this anime, like I did, it would just be mediocre. Nice art and music but many things that you can't really get a grip of. The ending, for me, the first time through made me mad. I almost flipped the desk but I thought about it in a certain way. That the writers, if they have half a brain, had some goal or had some purpose to what they did. So I basically did some research and thought about it a whole lot. Then I came up with this interpretation.

Honestly, without the meaning I would rate it at about 5-7. Because of my new interpretation of it I see it as a 8-9. It might be biased because I'm religious. However, there were still many things that should have been added or left out. I believe it had a lot of potential to please the majority but you know, time straints, greed, and just unprofessional decisions that made it so the anime wouldn't be liked unanimously.

I still think it's deep though. If you just ignore the clutter of other things. Introverts would be able to understand and relate to Shu. He's effing annoying in the beginning but it's because he's scared. People just hate on him because he isn't your typical all out super powered protagonist. But his actions are what any and most people at that age would do. To run away from what scares us. To fear commitment. To fear change. And they did a perfect job of his character development when the girl dies due to his inability to man up and take charge. And also the fact that at the end he has a chance to just leave everything but he comes back to save everyone despite the fact they all betrayed him.

Inori, to me, was the spotlight. The reason I hated the first run through was because I was expecting romance. But the point of the show isn't romance. It was just about her being with Shu despite everything he does. He is a pansy and she stays with him. He becomes a tyrant and she stays with him. He's betrayed and hated yet she was still on his side. She was the shoulder that he needed. The one to keep him walking. She gives herself up multiple times to save Shu. The most important would be the two times at the end. When he was injured and when he was deciding to destroy himself with the virus.

I just think there was a lot of clutter that just got in the way of people's attention of focusing on the real point. Even without the religious meaning, I would think this anime was deep. It was just enhanced further when I interpreted the way I did.

So basically if you look passed all the unnecessary crap they put in it IS very deep with or without the religious meaning. But it's very hard to look at it like that. LOL

Dec 26, 2012 6:43 PM

Amon-Raw

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Jul 2012

745

Lol yeah if only your concept /interpretation was actually apart of the anime sounds really cool I like that kind of story. If they made it apparent that there was a religious connection that would be awesome.

Dec 27, 2012 1:07 AM

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Feb 2012

4070

Really? Trying to make things up just to justify that shitty ending? All of the religious crap you claim to see in the show simply is not there. You're reading way too much into it, buddy. There is a certain concept about the Guilty Crown title and Shu himself (i.e. rape him mentally until he ends up sitting on a bench, remembering his late love), but interpreting it as some uber religious message is nothing but a petty attempt to explain blatant flaws. It's the writers' fault for destroying a potentially amazing show, accept it and don't try to make it look good.

^and this is coming from someone who was in love with the show.

The release of atomic energy has not created a new problem. It has merely made more urgent the necessity of solving an existing one. - Albert Einstein

Dec 27, 2012 1:46 AM

#10

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Nov 2012

GuiltyKing said:
Really? Trying to make things up just to justify that shitty ending? All of the religious crap you claim to see in the show simply is not there. You're reading way too much into it, buddy. There is a certain concept about the Guilty Crown title and Shu himself (i.e. rape him mentally until he ends up sitting on a bench, remembering his late love), but interpreting it as some uber religious message is nothing but a petty attempt to explain blatant flaws. It's the writers' fault for destroying a potentially amazing show, accept it and don't try to make it look good.

^and this is coming from someone who was in love with the show.

LOL. It's called critically analyzing. Obviously your brain is incapable of doing that. It's a shitty ending if you don't know how to interpret things. I didn't make things up? The facts are in the anime itself. The actions done in the anime directly relate to religious actions done before. The summary even says that he gets the right hand of the "king". Jesus was referred to as the "King of Jews". There's even the fact that Mana and Gai label themselves as Eve and Adam. Yet, you say there is no "relgious crap" in the show. People like you, who don't think, are the reason why there is so much dispute going on with animes. Learn to read between the lines. Learn to see events, situations, and aspects in a different angle. Blindly saying something sucks. Something is shit. I must say that blindly saying things are good is just as awful but in my post I explained why I feel this anime was good. If you can't comprehend my thought process then there isn't much I could do for you.

Also.. don't bag on writers. Serious shit. If you are criticizing others for their work be able to accept your own faults. If you were such a good writer you would be the one writing and not the current one, don't you think? LOL.

Dec 27, 2012 4:08 AM

#11

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Feb 2012

4070

So you're telling me to make up scenarios in order to like a show. Good idea, bro. What you call critical analyzing, I describe as reading too much into it. You simply can't accept what happened and are now bringing religion into this just to somehow make it better than it is. Hell, I could take every anime there is and find some 'hidden meaning' only I can see and if someone disagrees, then "their brain is incapable of seeing that holy message".

You're right about the writers- I should send them a gift card, maybe visit personally and give them hug; thank them for ruining the show. Oh, and of course I can't criticize writers if I'm not one myself. Yeah, that makes totally sense. 'Cause ordinary people obviously lack any common sense and can't understand such complex scripts, duh.

The release of atomic energy has not created a new problem. It has merely made more urgent the necessity of solving an existing one. - Albert Einstein

Dec 27, 2012 11:57 AM

#12

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Nov 2012

Make up? Which parts that I have stated are made up? LMFAO. You argue against me but you put no examples to the table. You obviously failed your english classes because that's what we are taught to do. To read INTO the story. To examine not just the surface of the story but under as well. Also the "meaning" is clear. I provide examples to state why I feel this anime and religion corelate. You haven't shown me any examples. All you've done is merely put down my thoughts without showing reason.

Also if you feel so much hatred towards writers go fucking become a writer yourself. Don't be all talk. You spew all these angry words towards them but you take no action. Go be a man.

Dec 27, 2012 1:19 PM

#13

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Feb 2012

4070

Sure, let's give it another round then.
For example your describing Inori as God. How can a character that has been mostly used by others throughout the show, be described as an entity like God? At the beginning she was Gai's tool, obediently following his every order. He *told* her to be by Shu's side and that's why she was there (again, talking about the beginning her, not the end). The poor girl was a means for Gai to revive Mana, the crazy chick who wanted to destroy the world.
What happens next? Inori actually acts as Mana's vessel and does nothing really than wait to be saved. Until that point there's no real development whatsoever coming from the person you compared to God. Next she stays by Shu's side because he wants her to so technically- even if it may sound harsh- he's using her to relieve his emotional stress; even throughout his tyrant phase. Again no real development visible until finally Shu loses his arm and is on his own. Only then Inori acts out of her own will to protect Shu. And that happened, iirc, in the 19th episode? Before that she was nothing but a tool, figuratively and literally (uber void sword). Something comparable to God always protecting Shu? Not in my eyes.

Let me quickly talk about the 'reading into it' and 'writer' part of the post before coming to a conclusion.
- Regarding the former, I said that you're reading TOO MUCH into it. Of course the audience is supposed to read into the story and see what they make out of it but not to such a degree, wouldn't you agree? If you read into it, go by the evidence (i.e. the actions of the character in question) provided and build your opinion rather than ignoring some parts to make it more convenient.
- About the writers... that again? Am I supposed to go take a writing class if I want to criticize a writer for their poor story? Going by that logic I wouldn't be allowed to tell off a mechanic for deliberately kicking a car just because I don't share the same profession. I think you can't comprehend the principle, really.

Now, to conclude this wall of text and more or less summarize my stand on the matter -- I don't completely disagree with you. You raise same valid points concerning the overall frame of the story. What I think you're doing wrong though, is over-analyzing the story partly (mainly Inori). So again, sometimes it's better to go by the actual material than reading too much between the lines.

The release of atomic energy has not created a new problem. It has merely made more urgent the necessity of solving an existing one. - Albert Einstein

Dec 27, 2012 2:05 PM

#14

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Nov 2012

Do you understand the concept of "God"? He was "used" as well. Human beings rely on him only when convenient. They go to him when they are at the lowest points of their lives. That's the reason why Inori's character relates to God. It shows that people just try to use God to get what they want. For example, staying alive, getting a better test score, or many other vain needs.

Also I have stated that my interpretation and favoritism over this anime is probably biased. Due to the fact that I AM religious.

If you don't want to think and actually be open minded then there isn't much I can say to you. I have already said that I felt the same way about the anime being poorly done. And how there is a clutter of unneeded aspects. But I don't like just disapproving something because I can't understand it. That's being close minded. And I choose to read INTO it because I like being able to find the depth of a story. I have ALSO stated that this is MY interpretation. I'm not forcing my ideals on you. or anyone. I am simply allowing others to see a different view on the anime.

If you have rebuttals on my examples I would be happy to address them but currently you haven't shown much example except about Inori. But I believe that the reason you disapprove of my point of view is that you haven't actually researched or taught yourself of what I am comparing.

I know that this religious meaning applies to many. However, when this is applied then it creates depth. An example would be "The Dark Knight Rises". In the end he "sacrifices" himself for the city. A city that killed his parents, a city that betrayed him, and a city that hated him. It's my opinion but I love stories that are built around that. To be able to give your life for people that have done you wrong. To die for your enemy. And that is what Shu/Inori did.

Well, I've said enough. We can just agree to disagree. LOL

Dec 27, 2012 2:15 PM

#15

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Feb 2012

4070

Eh, the dark knight dies at the end? Damn, now I don't have to watch the trilogy anymore haha.

Agree to disagree, that sounds fair.

The release of atomic energy has not created a new problem. It has merely made more urgent the necessity of solving an existing one. - Albert Einstein

Dec 29, 2012 3:04 AM

#16

pogi09pj

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Nov 2012

149

watch Code Geass (CG)

you'll see some reasons why they hate Guilty Crown (GC)

and if you like GC, you will definitely like CG more

Dec 29, 2012 4:53 AM

#17

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May 2012

3087

People hate because some plots didn't explained very well. Even I had some serious issue about this show since it's just won't leave me alone. Like I said on this:-

http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=536112&pages=2&show=20#msg19127760

JafriZinDec 29, 2012 5:25 AM

Dec 29, 2012 5:17 AM

#18

VoidGenome

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Nov 2012

131

pogi09pj said:
watch Code Geass (CG)

you'll see some reasons why they hate Guilty Crown (GC)

and if you like GC, you will definitely like CG more

not necessarily. I watched both and liked GC far more. It's just that CG had a better ending which didn't seem so utterly rushed. That's pretty much the only thing in CG that I like more than in GC.

I sing for my people, I sing for my friends
I sing for justice, so that the world finally ends
I sing for my father who rests high above
and also for my mother who I deeply love
But as I sing I wonder, what is it for?
when there is no one who sings for me anymore...

Dec 29, 2012 9:58 AM

#19

Bouum

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May 2011

Pretty interesting... I've been thinking about it ever since they called Mana Eve and Shu or Gai Adam but, I discarded it. If this was really their goal... they should have been more clear about it maybe it wasn't clear enough.

But I'd like to think this is really the 'Symbolism' behind it all ! =)

jaejunn said:
I know that this religious meaning applies to many. However, when this is applied then it creates depth. An example would be "The Dark Knight Rises". In the end he "sacrifices" himself for the city. A city that killed his parents, a city that betrayed him, and a city that hated him. It's my opinion but I love stories that are built around that. To be able to give your life for people that have done you wrong. To die for your enemy. And that is what Shu/Inori did.

If only Shu was the one to die but he didn't. This is the part that's been bugging me a lot with this. Inori should have been able to live and Shu should have died taking all the 'sin' away. This part didn't make sense when I watched it and it still doesn't really make sense with this Religion meaning hiding behind it all.

Dec 29, 2012 12:47 PM

#20

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Nov 2012

Yea. Honestly, I believe Shu should have died as well. Also I agree they were not clear with a LOT of things. Which is why I get frustrated sometimes watching it.

Also I have watched Code Geass. Honestly I would only like Code Geass better because of the ending. The ending was done better to show the tragic hero. However LeLouch's personality was almost constant throughout the anime. I like having big flaws in my main characters. But LeLouch was too pro. LOL.

Dec 29, 2012 8:53 PM

#21

Omegadark

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Feb 2011

283

Thats actually really interesting. There are multiple things that would make it seem like its based on religion. Like Gai's cross, the incident being called Lost Christmas, characters being called Adam and Eve. Also i believe Inori means prayer in Japanese right?

Dec 29, 2012 11:21 PM

#22

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Nov 2012

Omegadark said:
Thats actually really interesting. There are multiple things that would make it seem like its based on religion. Like Gai's cross, the incident being called Lost Christmas, characters being called Adam and Eve. Also i believe Inori means prayer in Japanese right?

Oh wow. I didn't even notice the Christmas and Cross part. Thanks for the input. It makes me see more of the picture now. Also if you listen to the translation of the song she always sings. It's about like anti-war-ish theme. Kind of to promote love. Which is basically what Christianity is based off.

Also I agree with Guilty Crown being poorly executed. I've talked this over with some friends and they also believe that it had potential but writers weren't thinking straight. LOL.

Dec 31, 2012 6:42 AM

#23

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Feb 2012

4070

Wait wait wait. GC being better than CG? Oh hell no. You can tell me much but comparing Guilty Crown to a masterfully done anime like Code Geass and then even calling it better? No freakin' way.
And you tell me there's no romance in CG? How about watching it properly first before making such a baseless statement?

People these days...

The release of atomic energy has not created a new problem. It has merely made more urgent the necessity of solving an existing one. - Albert Einstein

Feb 21, 2014 1:29 PM

#24

Kitoge

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Oct 2013

2433

ihateuimeanit said:
Remake? :3

No Guilty Crown was good because it left watchers to think.

Feb 27, 2014 9:49 AM

#25

A_Medic

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Sep 2013

152

Drakewinm said:

ihateuimeanit said:
Remake? :3

No Guilty Crown was good because it left watchers to think.

true statement.

Mar 12, 2014 6:21 AM

#26

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May 2012

3087

I can't believe those people still make an excuses over bad writing, plot holes, some stuff never addressed & etc.

Hell, even Valvrave had a same issue as this later on. Typical writer.

Seriously people, I actually cared for this series so much with so many over-reactions, ramblings & etc that NO one cares.

I don't care anymore, guys. This is MAL. I'm free to voice my thoughts & opinions about it.

JafriZinMar 13, 2014 5:50 AM

Mar 12, 2014 4:55 PM

#27

Preciize

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May 2011

576

Since the time I watched Guilty Crown, I don't think any other series after has given me such an emotional rollercoaster ride as this one. Granted, I'm not someone who watches a ton of anime (probably like 5-6 series on average per season). The music/OST was well done too, I'd put it right next to Naruto OSTs in terms of sparking my emotions.

This series is definitely one I'll remember, probably forever.

Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.

Mar 13, 2014 5:50 AM

#28

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May 2012

3087

pogi09pj said:
watch Code Geass (CG)

you'll see some reasons why they hate Guilty Crown (GC)

and if you like GC, you will definitely like CG more

What kind of BS is this... another excuses for watching Code Geass instead?

God, people on MAL these days...

Mar 25, 2014 9:52 AM

#29

ynat1

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Mar 2014

Interesting interpretation but I believe Inori is not a representation of "God" but maybe an Angel instead in my mind that makes far more sence considering 1. Inori is a girl and 2. Having God be possessed and overtaken by Eve, not a chance in hell that would happen.

Mar 25, 2014 3:30 PM

#30

DeadZeroSource

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Jan 2014

1442

If you talk about religion, if you played Final Fantasy X you'll see it's pointing out something about religion also,but i'm not quite sure if its Christianity. Like in there is the Teachings of Yevon, that they followed for thousands years but in the end the main characters discovered the teachings where all just a big lie..

By the way I don't hate GC, it's just that the writer made a bad decision in making the story for the ending and left so many feels to some viewers, that's why they either hate it or love it :3

Got something to live for, I know that I won't surrender,

A warrior of youth,

I'm taking over, a shot to the new world order

I Am Bulletproof. . .

Mar 25, 2014 3:39 PM

#31

MrAM

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May 2013

537

Guilty Crown definitely had religious symbolism, and made a genuine effort to tackle a lot of interesting themes. The problem is that it failed at even the most basic levels of good writing far too often.

My anime blog
Latest Post: The Zero Requiem (Analysis of the Ending of Code Geass)

Apr 13, 2014 11:08 AM

#32

Jackyhk

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Apr 2014

Hahaha, interesting post. I think Inori is God is a little far fetched. But the rest I like, especially on Shu. Shu is easily one of my favorite anime character because of how realistic and down-to-earth he is (especially for a teenager).

But yeah, I don't get why all the hates for GC. I mean, for a shonen with only 22 episodes and literally TONS of plots to cover, the series executed and ended as good as it can get for having only 22 episodes. I mean, if you compare to FMA and Code Geass, they literally have 50 episodes to explain every detail to you, and even so there are still plot holes uncovered such as in CG: where does Geass actually come from anyway? Why does V.V. has same power as C.C.? How in the world Lelouch actually able to kill Charles despite he is immortal, and what happened to his code? etc etc.

It's definitely potential wasted and rushed since they can easily push 30-50 episodes of this goodness. Tons of stuff that could have been better explained but didn't and is left to our own interpretation. But oh well. At least I enjoyed the anime.

Apr 13, 2014 9:02 PM

#33

Thi123

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Jan 2013

I personally felt like Guilty Crown was executed in it's own special way that complements what the anime is all about. Having those complex(confusing for some people) went so well for me with this anime. The whole feel felt just how it should be, and I wouldn't want anything else.

Just seems to me like soooo many complainers are just complaining about "plot holes, shit didn't get explained, I'm dumb as fuck to not understand!". Sheesh, people have their own little standards on what they deem enjoyable. I don't really care personally, since I got excellence from the anime and don't see it any other way. The things people say though are cancer-filled lol.

Please send me a message/profile comment since I will most likely not check my forum posts. Thank you.

Apr 16, 2014 10:42 PM

#34

Ninja_Magic898

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Apr 2014

Alright I'm new to forums and was completely late on the GC bandwagon but I have a different interpretation that blew my mind if I thought about it so I had to post it somewhere to get feedback. Here goes...

So I really hated the ending at first saying "This is horse shit, this can't be real." so pondered and looked at reviews and such for about an hour and thought I wasted time. But it hit me that they kept making references to the story of Adam and Eve and I tried to put the pieces together. In all honesty all those "plot holes" people keep complaining about, it's going to be one of those things where if they found out or learned about it, it's most likely gonna be brushed off later, it's more of a "Oh so that's how it happened" sort of thing. But relating their story to Adam and Eve. Mana is essentially Eve and Inori is a vessel for Mana, so either way there is 1 Eve (Inori and Mana). But they needed candidates for Adam so there are multiple "Adams" (Shu and Gai). I interpret that the virus is the fruit of truth as Mana (Eve) is the first to come into contact with it. Daath is basically the serpent as he/they have an obsession with the virus (the fruit) and wanted another kingof the new world (Adam candidate) to partake in it, thus the whole story.

(For anyone skipping the paragraph)
Shu = Adam 1
Gai = Adam 2
Mana/Inori = Eve
Daath = the Serpent
Virus = The fruit

Now for the ending, basically this is where the romantic tale is thrown in with a bit of skew to the Adam and Eve story. Basically when Adam also took the fruit with Eve they were kicked out the Garden of Eden. In essence after defeating Gai, Gai showed Shu the point of convergence which I think is a vision of the new world after they (Inori and Shu) both take the fruit. This is where the sad part comes in, I think this is a story of what happens if Adam never took the fruit with his wife (Eve) thus Inori sacrificed herself with the virus and voids so that Shu may remain in a current Eden with no virus (fruit) or void (which can be interpreted as the original sin). And rest about Shu going blind because he and Inori are connected keeps the romance stronger. Thus, I'm sticking through with a tragedy of what if Adam never took the Fruit with Eve.

Add on or call me out but I needed something to fill the hole it left in my heart and made me love it tenfold so I'm giving this a 9/10 for being up there in my new favorites.

Apr 17, 2014 9:01 AM

#35

ForteInazuma

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Jan 2014

If we could always overanalyze things, we can just make all these excuses for School Days.

PITCH A TENT! PITCH A TENT! PITCH A TENT!

"When it comes to people you really love..., you don't care about yourself!" - Yamato Kurosawa

"Someday, maybe you’ll find someone like you to share your pain with. I can’t tell you when that will happen.... But the important thing is to not reject them". - Mei Tachibana

"When you trust someone and get to know them, you eventually learn about their wounds, too. - Mei Tachibana

Apr 17, 2014 9:50 AM

#36

Z4K

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Apr 2014

6858

ForteInazuma said:
If we could always overanalyze things, we can just make all these excuses for School Days.

No you can't, it was pure garbage from whatever angle you looked at it.

Apr 18, 2014 11:10 AM

#37

WyattEarp

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Apr 2009

339

You'd have to be either blind or completely ignorant of Christianity to not see any religious connections with this show. Come on they're obvious, I didn't even need to think about it much, it was so blatantly shown to us. Although i don't agree with every point OP makes thats for sure.

pogi09pj said:
watch Code Geass (CG)

you'll see some reasons why they hate Guilty Crown (GC)

and if you like GC, you will definitely like CG more

Meh I definitely enjoyed Guilty Crown more, and I watched both seasons of Geass first.
Simply put I thought GC had better atmosphere, pacing, and art. With a delicious soundtrack. The only thing I really liked about CG was the incredible ending the first season had.

Apr 18, 2014 4:40 PM

#38

TheRealDeal51

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Nov 2012

104

I really liked the first 2/3 of this anime but the last 1/3 went completely downhill in my opinion, I didn't pick up most of you interpretation whilst watching though.

May 3, 2014 7:28 AM

#39