| Also, if so, why? This thing is what I don't understand with this quite overused term. |
| i don't understand what "panders" criticizm even mean... if it's for otaku then what? doesn't change the content even a bit... does being shoujo mean automaticaly girly? and man who watch it is girly? if we are rooting for late nigh TV shows/ova/movie for niche mareket stuff.. even NGE and LOGH can be classified as otaku stuff... |
KumaApr 30, 2016 11:38 AM
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| Contrary to what ThatAnimeSnob and his drones may lead you to believe, no, it doesn't. |
| No, it's elitist bullshit to say that... and besides.. no one spends more money on merchandise than otaku.. so ofc most anime are made for otaku |
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| It's a terminology that you'd only use with something that sucks. It's effect-cause instead of cause-effect. |
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| No, Steins;Gate and Monogatari Series are "otaku pandering" shows that have good stories and very memorable characters, even better than some "non-pandering" anime. Target audience has zero to do with actual quality. |
| Pandering is ok in moderation but you can take it too far. |
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Lordwen said: It's a terminology that you'd only use with something that sucks. It's effect-cause instead of cause-effect. So if a show panders, the possibility of it to *suck* is increased? Why, though? |
| I use that term when something is obviously pandering to a certain demographic. Like Tyler Perry movies. He needs to stop. Mamster-P said: No, it's elitist bullshit to say that... and besides.. no one spends more money on merchandise than otaku.. so ofc most anime are made for otaku But... but... I've seen "Elitist pandering" used a whole lot more than "otaku pandering". I must be bugging. |
| Oh look another thread that asks an irrelevant question! 99/100 anime are made targeted at some demographic. No show is bad unless one deems it to be so. You can never judge a book by it's cover. Who knew the recent KonoSuba would be a huge success? |
 I don't know why people write that they are approachable persons, if you were you wouldn't be on MAL. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Extended families or lovers on MAL are a farce. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| It's complicated. Everything is made with a target audience in mind. Would you say that action anime pander to people who are into action anime? I'd say it's bad if it's just a cheap, cold, manufactured cashgrab without any real substance that was created to appeal to its respective demographic. I'd say that your average echchi harem is probably just as bad as your average battle shounen. It's basically the same thing. Mamster-P said: so ofc most anime are made for otaku The general Japanese public watches animu just like wed watch movies. |
Gesu-Apr 30, 2016 12:14 PM
| You got no idea OP. These shows are the best kind of shows. ( And a lot better than all those SoLs ) |
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| One can argue that any anime panders to a certain group of people more so than others, based on the content. Certain groups and / or types of people will always enjoy something more than others will if it falls in line with their own likes. Saying something is bad because it has content that a certain group of people will enjoy seems quite silly. |
 It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether! It's an entirely different kind of flying. |
| Everything panders to someone at some degree. Cowboy Bebop panders to westerners, Mushishi panders to deep thinkers, and ufotable panders to anyone who isn't blind (if you're blind and offended by this comment, fuck off liar). It's best to just get over it, a show's quality isn't measure by who it appeals to but rather whether it's willing to sacrifice substance for said appeal. |
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CapitalistGod said: Because pandering has this indulgence meaning as a negative connotation. If you simply want to say that a show appeals to a kind of watcher you wouldn't use that word.Lordwen said: It's a terminology that you'd only use with something that sucks. It's effect-cause instead of cause-effect. So if a show panders, the possibility of it to *suck* is increased? Why, though? |
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| I can think of one of the greatest piece of pandering with no substance.... Tetsurou Araki's High School of the Dead It's entertainment at its finest though. |
| i think i ever read explanation about otaku pandering stuff somewhere by @umashikaneko that otaku stuff is visible in manga magazine... umashikaneko said: Kuma said: Yes it is number of print copies of the magazinesso, few printing is otaku oriented or something? No,there are many minor magazines that are far from otaku-oriented magazines. I just cited that list from my comment I wrote in the past. Well,but I don't think there is even single otaku-oriented magazines whose sales is on per with Young Jump or Young Magazine or Weekly shounen Magazine or Morning Even famous ones such as Kirara or Dengeki Daioh are 50-100k at best.Maybe I'm wrong but as far as I know there is not any. and guess what? most obsucure stuff that prised by "elitist" comunity is otaku oriented stuff, when they are looking down on "non otaku" oriented stuff like Jump product.... |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| no, and pretty much every anime is made to appeal to a certain crowd. and can you really blame creators for wanting to make a successful series? |
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Ratohnhaketon said: Everything panders to someone at some degree. Cowboy Bebop panders to westerners, Mushishi panders to deep thinkers, and ufotable panders to anyone who isn't blind (if you're blind and offended by this comment, fuck off liar). I would have been offended by your comment but I am blind and can't read it. Anyway "otaku pandering" is a term usually used by those with a herd mentality. It's a cheap and easy way to criticise a show/genre, instead of actually taking the time to go into specifics. Additionally, anime has ALWAYS been otaku pandering, it's just that the interests/demographics of otaku have changed over time. Back in the 80's, when the archetypal anime was military SF mecha or something similar, they pandered to otaku by creating material that could obsessed over by model-building-nerds and such. Now it's the same shit it's just that the type of nerdiness has changed. |
LobindeApr 30, 2016 12:12 PM
| It has no meaning whatsoever, people who use that as an excuse to criticize a show are just trying to make their criticism seem valid when it's not. |
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| Not at all, what's important in an anime is not the public it's mainly made for, it's not the premise either, it's the content. Akagami no Shirayuki-hime is a shoujo, yet i'm an adult man, and i'm 0% feminine, yet i really liked it, the characters are really good and the story is nice too. Oh and it's studio Bones so you're also in for great art, animation and openings/endings. If the content is good then the anime is good. Who cares who it was made for. BUT it is a fact that most works ( It doesn't matter if it's anime, movies, books ) that the author writes for himself are better than most ones written in a way to please people. When you try to please some people, you also make others dislike for the same reason. This is mainly why Ecchi Anime are so hated and so loved. Ecchi is not automatically bad but if it's the only thing the anime has to offer then it's bad. Some ecchi anime are pretty good. |
 Profile Picture and Avatar/Signature made by SenpieX, requested in this thread :https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1568530&show=0 |
Ratohnhaketon said: Everything panders to someone at some degree. Cowboy Bebop panders to westerners, Mushishi panders to deep thinkers, and ufotable panders to anyone who isn't blind (if you're blind and offended by this comment, fuck off liar). It's best to just get over it, a show's quality isn't measure by who it appeals to but rather whether it's willing to sacrifice substance for said appeal. That sir is a quality comment, I couldn't agree more. CapitalistGod said: I can think of one of the greatest piece of pandering with no substance.... Tetsurou Araki's High School of the Dead It's entertainment at its finest though. |
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| This is like asking "is entertaining bad?" |
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Irrelative said: But... but... I've seen "Elitist pandering" used a whole lot more than "otaku pandering". I must be bugging. can't tell if serious lol... NEVER seen that term used xD i don't think that changes that the most hardcore watchers/buyers are probably otaku i think i was already at the very bottom lol |
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gedata said: This is like asking "is entertaining bad?" But we shouldn't watch for enjoyment because "m-muh objectivity". |
| No, it doesn't matter what it appeals to it matters if it's an objective masterpiece or filthy trash. If it's filthy trash you can use "it appeals to filthy neckbeard otakus" as a side argument. AltoRoark said: gedata said: This is like asking "is entertaining bad?" But we shouldn't watch for enjoyment because "m-muh objectivity". Agreed. Tatami Galaxy is still objectively better then your favorite anim- shit your favorite anime is Bebop. |
| every single one of my forum posts is dumb and invalid except for 1, I don't claim them it was a different person it was all fake |
| No The 1st Idolmaster panders to male Otaku and it's a masterpiece Love Live panders to Otaku of all genders and it's nearly a masterpiece |
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| There's nothing wrong with wanting to appeal to a certain demographic or type of person |
   I envy your delusion; I wish I could live in it  |
RLinksoul said: I like this definition, it shows how nebulous the term is. I really like medieval battles, are Berserk and Game of Thrones pandering to me and others with that interest? Although I guess the "instead" is important here since it's about the disconnect between the two. But how do you arrive at the conclusion that a show is sacrificing quality? Things will appeal to different people based on what context they bring into the show, subjectivity, yadda yadda. So it's really only bad if it hurts the quality, which will depend on the viewer. So to answer your question OP, good things are good, bad things are bad, and fun things are fun.Pandering, by the definition used on TV Tropes means "Doing what the fans want, instead of what makes a good story". Naturally people can take this in many different ways, viewing something as pandering when someone else wouldn't. |
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| Depends. If you want to treat the term as something neutral, just bringing stuff that appeals to the target audience, then of course not, or every anime would be bad by default. If you want to treat the term as a negative, just trying too hard and failing, then it is nothing more or less than the consequence of a failure. You wouldn't be complaining if the anime was successful, so the reasoning is circular and useless. In conclusion: just another worthless buzzword. |
| Its depend on how we defined "bad". Its bad for "elitist" for sure. But most people out there just using it as excuse to look cool when they dislike certain series. |
| This salad is salty favored |
| There are great shows that also happen to pander to certain audiences, but I don't think pandering is ever a good thing. For example Steins;Gate would be a much better show if it didn't have all that "Feyris-nyan" bullshit. I mean, given that otakudom is a core part of the setting, the show can't help but be inherently appealing to otakus, but it goes too far at many points - some of the voice acting is so ridiculous (Feyris, Hashida). |
| Of course not. If an anime is trying to garner an otaku fanbase, who cares? It's just silly to judge the worth of an anime based on the target audience. |
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| Almost guaranteed. So yes, for the most part. |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
| >Does the fact that a show panders (to otakus or etc.) means that it is automatically bad? I am the measure of all things. If a show panders to me, it must be a good show. Even if it would not provide any substance, it will at least have a lot of things that I like. Really, this phrase really means "I don't belong to the show's target audience and can't appreciate the show, and I'm going to dump shit on it because I don't even understand the concept of target audience.". |
| No, that's something certain people who dislike X anime but don't know how to explain why they disliked it make up, but it doesn't count as viable criticism of a show. |
Iizbakaokay said: You can never judge a book by it's cover. Who knew the recent KonoSuba would be a huge success? I'm derailing a bit here, but I don't understand this^ line of thinking at all. KonoSuba made use of one of the most recently popular and downright interesting settings in anime. That alone should be an indicator that it has potential for success, yet many people seem to think that using that exact same setting is a flag that it's going to suck. Why is that? |
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
Mamster-P said: No, it's elitist bullshit to say that... and besides.. no one spends more money on merchandise than otaku.. so ofc most anime are made for otaku It's not elitist bullshit. Anime is clearly overly sexualized and often perverted (think of how often you get loli and incest in anime, it's really bad). If their target audience were more respectable people, that wouldn't be that case. |
| your waifu is shit |
| Because otakus does not represent a large demographics of the anime industry or anything. |
| It doesn't mean it is automatically bad. But it is more likely that it is lackin in other parts (characters, story/plot) which could make it worse. Stuff like Shougugeki no Souma which is for otakus that like "fighting" (it is similar to some fighting shounen only with cooking battles) was pretty entertaining. Your usual stupid schools harem that only wants to offer 1 boring guy + some boring girls ... that is boring. Only for the single otaku boys that want to be the main and get their favorite girl (that's why there are a lot of different types of girls). |
Caelidesu said: Iizbakaokay said: You can never judge a book by it's cover. Who knew the recent KonoSuba would be a huge success? I'm derailing a bit here, but I don't understand this^ line of thinking at all. KonoSuba made use of one of the most recently popular and downright interesting settings in anime. That alone should be an indicator that it has potential for success, yet many people seem to think that using that exact same setting is a flag that it's going to suck. Why is that? I am not really sure what is so hard to understand. KonoSuba is what you call a sleeper hit o the season. Just read the first 5-6 comments on this thread: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1387119 As soon as they read the synopsis and studio name they form opinions on the anime itself :/ Any anime can be success if it's done correctly. My top two examples for this are Nazo no Kanojo X and Oofuri. Maybe add Rakugo to the list as well. |
| I don't know why people write that they are approachable persons, if you were you wouldn't be on MAL. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Extended families or lovers on MAL are a farce. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| No, Gintama is a prime example of this. |
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I don't really understand what it truly means either, even though I say it jokingly at times. Every genre of anime is going to pander to a specific mindset, demographic, belief, hobby, and anything else that has ever been appealing to at least one person. If a show sucks then a show sucks, but "pandering to otakus" wouldn't be the reason for why that show sucks or why it's low quality. This is also a bad style to use when criticizing because pandering to otaku needs can either mean they pander to people who watch one piece, k-on!, pokemon, anything. If you think a show is bad, and you want to explain why you think it's bad, then throwing the "pander to otaku" argument and running away basically means you don't know how to critique. AltoRoark said: Contrary to what ThatAnimeSnob and his drones may lead you to believe, no, it doesn't. Like I told ThatAnimeSnob on hummingbird, he overrates most of his anime listed and he throws out broad terms without articulating his statement. If you look at his list more than half of the series he gave higher ratings are basically shit or painfully average shit. (note that this isn't on MAL, but another site) He can be funny though, I'll say that. And at least he likes the tatami galaxy, so we can relate there. I'm still waiting for his review on it.... *tick tick* |
 Banner credit to @turnip |
Meritas said: gintama is WSJ stuff.. how they are pandering when wsj priority is wide appeal?No, Gintama is a prime example of this. |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
SuperRed said: No, Steins;Gate and Monogatari Series are "otaku pandering" shows that have good stories and very memorable characters, even better than some "non-pandering" anime. Target audience has zero to do with actual quality. The lame jokes about tsundere aren't exactly the most interesting part of those shows. |
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| No, it doesn't mean that, why would it? |
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SzJ said: Mamster-P said: No, it's elitist bullshit to say that... and besides.. no one spends more money on merchandise than otaku.. so ofc most anime are made for otaku It's not elitist bullshit. Anime is clearly overly sexualized and often perverted (think of how often you get loli and incest in anime, it's really bad). If their target audience were more respectable people, that wouldn't be that case. Great bait mate :D I think I'll just refrain from responding lol |
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