Homura's Character After Rebellion

ElPysCongroo said:
But everybody is HAPPY though in Homura's ending though, Sayaka is alive and best friends with Kyouko, Maim gets a kid to be a senpai too, and Madoka gets her family back and is happy as well. Ignorance is bliss. Madoka wasn't happy as the Goddess, that's a fact from the show, but Madoka is willing to sacrifice her own happiness for the greater good, Homura on the other hand is willing to sacrifice anything for Madoka's happiness, even her own. Both their wishes conflict each other.

Tachikoma1701 said:


Yeh, Madoka was so unhappy about being a goddess, look how she suffered: LOL
http://images.puella-magi.net/f/fc/Puella112_000272-1.jpg?20120301020804
I think that we saw two, very different TV series - in my PMMM , Madoka was unhappy that she was powerless, that she couldn't help others and she wanted to have meaningful life.

As for girls being happy: illusionary and forced happiness is not happiness at all. Lesson learned from history of authoritarian regimes all over the world - those system will eventually fall, no metter how much dictators would want to convince citizens that they are happy. And Homura knows that - she wasn't happy in her illusionary world in "Rebellion", she learned the truth and she couldn't accept this lie. So what make you think that other girls won't have this same realisation? If they won't then there won't be season 2!

And I think that Homura's character was practically ruined: now she is obviously evil, more evil than Kyubey - at least he was using those girls for a greater good, and he respected free will. Homura on the other hand is a thief - she stolen Madoka's power- , betrayer - she practically backstabbed her best and only friend -, kidnaper - she deprived Madoka of her freedom -, liar - she erased people's memories and show them illusionary world -, and dictator - now, everyone is just a doll, in Homura's dollhouse. If this is not evil, then I don't know what is? And if this is only beginning of her reign, if there will be season 2, then this is just a top of the iceberg - because absolute power corrupts absolutely.

And BTW, why you are giving Homura extra rights? Why her wishes should be any more important than wishes of Madoka or Sayaka, or anyone else on the planet? Why should Homura decide how people should live their lives? Why she should dictate how world look like? Who elected Akemi, who give her the right to decide about Madoka's fate? Should we agree with this Evil Queen, just because she is currently stronger, than anyone else in the universe? Might make it right? Then why don't agree with Kim Jong Un or Hitler? In fact it's funny that her name is Akemi Homura, work a little with it, and you will get, "good" old Adolf... And yes, he also wanted to make German people happy. And you know, what's funny? Homura would agree with me - she knows that what she is doing is wrong, that's why she calls herself the devil, and that's why she hate herself.

And here is more reasons why I think "Rebellion" basically assassinated Homura's character - this guy told this better than I ever could:
http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAnime/comments/1wrc4k/rebel_with_a_misguided_cause_how_madoka_magica/

hyperknees91 said:
More than likely Homura and Kyubey's lack of intelligence came because of the unplanned nature of the movie. It's a total bummer, and reading your guys responses just makes me more depressed on how this movie went down for her character.

Sigh her blatant obsession with Madoka has ruined her entire character. The movie would have been better if it was about getting over that part of her life then anything. Season 2 will have to focus on this, or have a cop out ending.

hyperknees91 said:
Shinbo and Uro have the same favorite character? That's pretty funny...but makes sense as she was obviously given the most attention in terms of character development.

I think making Homura a seperate character is still pretty much ruining her, it means you just got bored of old homura and just wanted her to do something interesting. Feels silly and just a plain cop out for attention from fans.

I don't doubt that Sayaka will be the main in the next show. Unfortunately Madoka's role and reason in the first has already been stepped all over and the whole show was pointless because of this movie so might as well not focus on her anymore.

Tachikoma1701 said:


Yeh, Madoka was so unhappy about being a goddess, look how she suffered: LOL
http://images.puella-magi.net/f/fc/Puella112_000272-1.jpg?20120301020804
I think that we saw two, very different TV series - in my PMMM , Madoka was unhappy that she was powerless, that she couldn't help others and she wanted to have meaningful life.

Tachikoma1701 said:
As for girls being happy: illusionary and forced happiness is not happiness at all. Lesson learned from history of authoritarian regimes all over the world - those system will eventually fall, no metter how much dictators would want to convince citizens that they are happy. And Homura knows that - she wasn't happy in her illusionary world in "Rebellion", she learned the truth and she couldn't accept this lie. So what make you think that other girls won't have this same realisation? If they won't then there won't be season 2!

Tachikoma1701 said:
And I think that Homura's character was practically ruined: now she is obviously evil, more evil than Kyubey - at least he was using those girls for a greater good, and he respected free will. Homura on the other hand is a thief - she stolen Madoka's power- , betrayer - she practically backstabbed her best and only friend -, kidnaper - she deprived Madoka of her freedom -, liar - she erased people's memories and show them illusionary world -, and dictator - now, everyone is just a doll, in Homura's dollhouse. If this is not evil, then I don't know what is? And if this is only beginning of her reign, if there will be season 2, then this is just a top of the iceberg - because absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Tachikoma1701 said:

And BTW, why you are giving Homura extra rights? Why her wishes should be any more important than wishes of Madoka or Sayaka, or anyone else on the planet? Why should Homura decide how people should live their lives? Why she should dictate how world look like? Who elected Akemi, who give her the right to decide about Madoka's fate? Should we agree with this Evil Queen, just because she is currently stronger, than anyone else in the universe? Might make it right? Then why don't agree with Kim Jong Un or Hitler? In fact it's funny that her name is Akemi Homura, work a little with it, and you will get, "good" old Adolf... And yes, he also wanted to make German people happy. And you know, what's funny? Homura would agree with me - she knows that what she is doing is wrong, that's why she calls herself the devil, and that's why she hate herself.

Faust91x said:
Actually you can interpret Homura that way and is valid, Tachikoma1701. That was the entire point of Rebellion. If you think she's evil, you're right. If you think she's the true victim, you're right too. The movie was meant to be that way.

And she was never meant to be the Messiah, that is Madoka's schtick.

What I didn't like was how contrived the story was so that the plot could work. Starting with how Homura broke her oath to protect Madoka's world so fast it was underwhelming and I believe it was months because Tatsuya looked as young as in the series.

How in the end there was nothing more than Madoka to her, makes her less dimensional and how she was willing to obey the Madoka in the barrier when it could just be an illusion or be a brainwashed version of her. As you said, she never in the series mentioned discomfort with the idea and was willing to do the right thing and stand her ground for once, that was what the 12 episodes of development were about. The conversation was just way too convenient as an explanation that I felt the scene was put there just to justify the ending.

Homura was less intelligent than in the series. I expected her to analyze why there was a Madoka in the barrier which was the biggest impossibility rather than going against Charlotte. Or question Kyubey, she knows better than anyone else that he is very sneaky.

Kyubey too was felt more stupid in the movie. I would have at least put an explosive on Homura's Soul Gem so that if Homura went against me, her Soul Gem would be annihilated. If he has tech that can interfere with Universal Laws, I'm sure he could have designed something to stop the experiment or at least try to disable it if they rebelled against him. Then I'd pack my things and restart the experiment on another Puella Magi. He had no qualms on experimenting, it was only basic scientific procedure to set safeguards if God decided he doesn't like me playing with his charges.

Well I decided to compile all my thoughts and poison in a single page so that I don't have to reconstruct them from scratch :P:

http://faust91xroleplayingpage.weebly.com/1/post/2014/02/my-thoughts-on-puella-magi-rebellion-story.html

EDIT: Just read the review you posted and agree with it wholeheartedly. The execution was wrong, but oh well...what's done is done.

ElPysCongroo said:


And that actually make no sense: Madoka didn't hurt Homura, quite the contrary - she could be her salvation of all other Magical Girl, only Homura selflessly rejected this salvation. And only time Madoka ever said something like that is when she have no memories of the previous events, so she is not this same person that she was in the end of the episode 12. Also Madoka is not as selfless as you think she is - helping other people was making her happy, that was what she really wanted.



Yes, she does! Did Madoka wanted to be removed from her position as a goddess? No, she didn't, if I remember correctly she begged Homura not to do this. Also invading people minds and foreign their moemories is absolutely against free will, it's something from "1984" novel. Also changing physical reality without asking people if they want to live in this new, "improved" world is also action against free will. And it's funny that you want to justify Homura's actions as something moral in this same time you want to argue that her soul gem is corrupted and she is essentially a witch - witches are monsters from the Id, they are by their very nature evil, so Homura's actions can't be good if she is a Witch. And wanting to create "happy" dictatorship, is nothing good - dictatorship is still oppressive system, no metter how you look at this. And Sayaka said what she said only for now - wait for a season 2! She said also that this world is unstable and she called Homura a demon - so she don't have highest opinion about Akemi and her new creation.



No it isn't. Some actions are evil, some are good. If you are want to argue that is otherwise, then prove it. If you say that good and evil are not moral absulutes, then you can't blame Kyubey for what he did - very OOC behavior BTW, TV show Kyubey would never did that. So "torturing" Homura is evil, but Homura betraying, kidnapping, lying and being a dictator is morally justifiable? Exactly why?
As for limitating free will - yes, Homura did this to Madoka, and she did this to other characters by invading their minds and changing their memories, as well changing physical world withouth asking people if they want this changes or not? And again I ask: why Homura's wishes should be more important than anyone else's wishes? Madoka's life is her life, and she can make her own decisions and Akemi have no right to change them - there are not her decisions to make. And again Madoka was happy in episode 12 - once again look at this picture, and tell me that is not truth? :
http://images.puella-magi.net/f/fc/Puella112_000272-1.jpg?20120301020804




Godwins law is completely arbitrary so it's invalid argument. Also respond to my question" why Homura's wishes should be more important than anyone else's wishes? Why you are advocating for dictatorship?

ElPysCongroo said:
Good and evil are purely subjective, true their are some things most people share the same ideals on what they are but its pretty much down to individual interpretation.
I will also make this clear again, Homura does NOT take away anyone's free will, if anything she makes the world a better place than before the tv series and after tv series.
Madoka also recreated the universe when she made her wish as well, and I can't remember anyone agreeing with her to change the universe, in this process everyone loses their memories of their previous incarnation, which is essentially all Homura does as well.
Also if Homura didn't do it, the incubators would eventually find a way to trap Madoka and steal her powers it is an inevitability as they would have an infinite amount of time to be able to achieve with the universe now being infinite and all.

And even if you ignore all that and still make Homura out to be a evil, then so what? It doesn't lessen her character in anyway, the descent of a hero going into villainy is hardly ever shown not in flashbacks form.

hyperknees91 said:
Well it's just what is good to someone might be evil to someone else mainly.

For example say murdering people is in general, regarded as evil by several people. However some people have to take anothers life in self defense or a person can be assigned the death penalty. However in general, this is not regarded as evil even though it has the same consequence. It's things like that where the grey area kind of blends in.

FierceAlchemist said:

You're wrong about Rebellion being a mere epilogue. Look at what Urobuchi said in this interview from April 2012: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/convention/2012/sakura-con/14

"The original idea was to have a concluding story within the original series but through producer Iwakami and director Akiyuki Shinbo's enthusiastic support we decided we wanted something expandable as a world and concept. We wanted to make it have more breadth and be a bridge to the world view within the series and the franchise."

It was always meant to be something that expanded the world, not a concluding story. He also says in this interview (http://feral-phoenix.livejournal.com/685568.html) that Homura becoming the devil was an idea he agreed with and was in the script from the very first draft. There is no evidence to suggest that it was a last minute decision. Urobuchi's original ending was conceived while they were still in the planning stages, it never made it into the script at all.

FierceAlchemist said:

People only cling to it because they like the happy ending more than the complex ending Rebellion gave us.

Tachikoma1701 said:

You see, here's the thing... I don't think that making Homura the devil, was the entire point of "Rebellion", because we know for a fact that originally, film have very different, more optimistic ending."Rebellion" wasn't designed to be a reinterpretation of "Paradise lost", if anything it was designed to be an epilogue to TV series, heavily inspired by both magical girls shows - first 30 minutes - and "Matrix" - entire concept of mind trapped in illusionary world, bullet time battle batween Mami and Homura etc.
So, in a way "Rebellion" is like lady with a dog's head ;) :
http://johnnyjung04.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz1.jpg
this ending sticks out like a sore thumb - it's attached to a movie, which is an epilogue of PMMM series, not a new beginning! That's why I think Homura's transformation is so clumsily written - it wasn't planned and written in advance, so you can't really say that the movie was designed with a purpose of making you think about Homura's tragic fate, because original ending wasn't that tragic to begin with. So I don't think that movie was meant to be that way... As I said before only good think about this transformation is that it's psychologically believable - Homura knows that what's she done is evil, and she hates herself for that. That was a good thing - I admit that.

But point I was trying to make was not that characters were dumber than they were in TV series, or that they were simply written out of characters, no. Point I was trying to make was that it's next to impossible, to try to defend Homura's actions, to say that what she did was good or at least that it wasn't evil. Every time you try to do this you are advocating for dictatorship. Now, Homura is essentially a Big brother; she is invading human's minds and changing what people remember and what they think - if you read "1984" you will see that controlling what people think and what they remembered, give you nothing less than ultimate power over people. Now, she is all about power and control. And what she is doing is not even done in the name of the greater good - it's all done just to make this one person "happy". Kyubey was not only more moral than this but also his actions created interesting ethical dilemma - you can't really dismiss the notion that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, but at the same time you have to ask yourself if you can justify suffering of all those girls with utalitarism? Homura's actions, didn't create such dilemma - not only her actions are aimed against free will, but also can't be really justifiable because they are notserving the greater good. So she is only character in franchise that can be called evil, even though she is tragic and pitiful character - tragic villain, is villain nonetheless.

ElPysCongroo said:

And even if you ignore all that and still make Homura out to be a evil, then so what? It doesn't lessen her character in anyway, the descent of a hero going into villainy is hardly ever shown not in flashbacks form.

Faust91x said:
I agree that her descent is psychologically believable, but I felt the plot was tweaked to make it believable rather than letting it flow like a natural progression. For example as I wrote before, the conversation with the fake Madoka is way too convenient and only appears once, and what's worse, Homura accepts what that Madoka says without considering that:

a) She didn't have her memories.
b) She could be an illusion expressing Homura's inner desires. Logical given what we have seen of witch barriers in the series.
c) She could be a hologram or something made by the Incubators to fool her.

She doesn't take the time to check if she is really Madoka, just accepts what she says and interprets it on her own way.

ElPysCongroo said:


You have to remember Homura is pretty much a witch at this point or the very least a mg with a fully corrupted soul gem, so its fair reason to say that Homura isn't going to be thinking rationally.

Faust91x said:
I agree that her descent is psychologically believable, but I felt the plot was tweaked to make it believable rather than letting it flow like a natural progression. For example as I wrote before, the conversation with the fake Madoka is way too convenient and only appears once, and what's worse, Homura accepts what that Madoka says without considering that:

a) She didn't have her memories.
b) She could be an illusion expressing Homura's inner desires. Logical given what we have seen of witch barriers in the series.
c) She could be a hologram or something made by the Incubators to fool her.

She doesn't take the time to check if she is really Madoka, just accepts what she says and interprets it on her own way.

FierceAlchemist said:

But we learn in the film that it is the real Madoka, just a Madoka without her powers or memories, probably best compared to the Madoka we saw in episode 10, the one who saved Homura. She hasn’t experienced the tragedy Madoka did in the TV show and learned the truth about magical girls. And Homura knows this.

Madoka says, “That is right, Homura-chan Sayaka-chan, Mami-san, Kyouko-chan, papa, mama, Tatsuya and Hitomi-chan and the rest of the class, I don't want to part with any of you. Even if that is something I must do, I would not have the courage to go through when the time comes.” A few lines later, Homura says, “I know, that you are kind to everyone and not afraid of making choices. When you feel that there is something that only you can do, you would not hesitate even if it means hurting yourself.”

FierceAlchemist said:

Homura knows that if this version of Madoka were put through the same circumstances as the Madoka of the TV show, she would make the same decisions. Homura knows how brave and selfless Madoka is, even if this Madoka doesn’t believe it. But notice how Homura says, “even if it means hurting yourself.” Madoka’s own words have confirmed what Homura’s felt for a long time, that Madoka becoming the Law of Cycles wasn’t the best outcome for Madoka. Of course she misses her friends and family, how couldn’t she? Of course it was a sacrifice for her. Now I believe Madoka found a certain kind of happiness being the Law of Cycles but giving up her existence definitely was not the ideal scenario for Madoka or Homura. I think Madoka’s wish was pretty much the best she could’ve come up with in episode 12 given the circumstances, but it was not a happy ending, it was bittersweet.

Also, although we the audience view the Madoka from the TV show as the “true Madoka,” let’s remember that to Homura who traveled through all those timelines, every version of Madoka is just as real as any other. She’s also obeying the will of the Madoka from the 3rd timeline who asked her to “keep foolish me from getting tricked by Kyubey”. I think in Homura’s mind, the combined beliefs of those two Madokas and her own selfish desire to be with Madoka justify her actions, even though she obviously feels horribly guilty about the whole thing.

Faust91x said:
We the audience know its the real Madoka because of the information given by Urobuchi, but there was no way for Homura to know that by that point unless she has some magical detection abilities.

What I argued was that up to that point for all Homura knew that could have been simply an expression of her barrier or a machination by the Incubator or an external agent such as Kriemhild Gretchen.

Still ElPsyCongroo argued that Homura could believe that because Homura may have been clouded by despair, which fits Sayaka's behaviour on episode 8 and too desperate to fight back. But plot wise, I still stand that Homura has no way to prove that's really Madoka, even if we know and thus if she didn't have the excuse of her memories being cloudy by her barrier and despair, didn't make an intelligent decision by not making sure first that she wasn't imagining things.

hyperknees91 said:
Yeah I don't think its a big concern. I think that's more of a nitpick then anything. That's the main problem I had with that big long review that was posted. He seems to be so sure that the characters must absolutely be a certain way, and otherwise it's OOC. Which I don't think we can put the OOC label on so easily.

I think the only proper time to put the OOC label is when a character is given the exact same situation and is in the exact same psychological state, but makes completely different actions. It's seemingly possible for Madoka to not choose the ending she chose if different things happened quite honestly.

hyperknees91 said:
So I forget...is it impossible for Madoka to make any wishes now? If so how will she act different in the proceeding season. I mean she is going to face a real problem. Her whole everything is being of use to people, but that would mean she would have to probably fight against Homura. Who is her best friend.

So yeah it's possible Madoka won't totally get shafted, as it's still very much possible for her to get some interesting development here. The key point is the execution of course. I think if the execution was tweaked a bit in this movie, it would have been fine (well ok people would still complain but yeah).

You know what would be amusing. If because of Homura's actions, her madoka wouldn't be so "madoka" like anymore. She idolizes Madoka to an extreme degree, so it would be amusing to see her reaction if Madoka's character drastically changed and it became a "Oh god what have I done" moment. Like say she decided she doesn't want to help people anymore because her doing that seems to cause nothing but problems for the world in some fashion. It's not unlikely if she finds out everything.

FierceAlchemist said:

Well we know she's the real Madoka because of Urobuchi and because Sayaka and Kyubey say so. It's just Madoka without her powers or memories. Also I don't think you're giving Homura enough credit. She says in the flower scene that at first she thought Madoka was a mirage or illusion:

"As I thought ... you didn't remember it. Once I thought you were just a mirage ... a construct made by someone else. How else would I have been able to meet you again like this? But I know, you definitely are the real Madoka. I am really happy, to be able to speak to you again, to be able to feel your gentleness like this once more." https://wiki.puella-magi.net/The_Rebellion_Story/Transcript

Just from talking with her, Homura can tell this is the real Madoka. Her selflessness is genuine. After all those leaps through time, Homura knows Madoka better than almost anyone so it's fair to say she knows what she's talking about. I suppose she could have begun grilling Madoka with questions that only the real Madoka would know, but that would've brought the pacing of the movie to a screeching halt.

FierceAlchemist said:

Finding out if Madoka was real or not wasn't really that important to the narrative in Rebellion.

hyperknees91 said:

You know what would be amusing. If because of Homura's actions, her madoka wouldn't be so "madoka" like anymore. She idolizes Madoka to an extreme degree, so it would be amusing to see her reaction if Madoka's character drastically changed and it became a "Oh god what have I done" moment. Like say she decided she doesn't want to help people anymore because her doing that seems to cause nothing but problems for the world in some fashion. It's not unlikely if she finds out everything.

Faust91x said:
I agree she's the real Madoka, still without knowing what Urobuchi told us because Homura had no way to contact the writer and ask so, and Sayaka going all cryptic. She had no way to reality check that. Kyubey talked but only after the flower scene.

I digress and actually I believe you're giving her too much credit (no offense and I actually praise that you support your statements with such a good logic). Kindness isn't exactly hard to replicate and Madoka isn't the only being capable of kindness even if to Homura she most probably is.

As you said, she could have asked something only the real Madoka could know, or maybe not go for a Homura ties Madoka to a chair and smacks her with a baseball bat until she reveals the truth (although that would be scary and amazing, Homura giving the Murderface treatment XD) but have a scene beforehand where Madoka shows that, it wasn't really that hard to do just by having her say something beforehand and Homura going hey! there's no way anyone else could know that, you are really Madoka!.

They could even hid that among the pandering of the first minutes and it would have made sense! A scene, a hint at it. It would have been nice.

Faust91x said:
Also digress. By knowing she was real and what she really thought about her role and what had happened would have been very useful in taking her decisions.

Even knowing what had really happened to her, which Madoka being the Law of Cycles incarnate had knowledge of, all of it would have been useful for Homura to avoid all the distress she suffered and be able to pass away in peace or work a compromise that would thwart the Incubators for good.

I still point that Urobuchi having to explicitly tell the audience that she was the real Madoka shows their attempt at conveying the points of Rebellion wasn't exactly the best.

FierceAlchemist said:

I'll admit they could've done it better and hinted at it or put in a line that Homura would recognize somewhere in the film. I guess it just didn't bother me because it was explained later and it really wasn't a plot point. Homura wasn't questioning if any of the girls were real when she found out they were in a labyrinth, why should she question Madoka?

FierceAlchemist said:

I would point out that Homura didn't exactly have the time to sit down and chat with Madoka after they were in the real world. Madoka is not really a godess, but a concept that absorbs despair. Homura's soul gem was past the point of no return and Madoka had to cure it and then move on. There's an interesting theory here (http://wiki.puella-magi.net/The_Rebellion_Story/Spoiler#AI_YO) that Homura splits Madoka by interfering with the Law of Cycles. By keeping Madoka in one place when she needed to be elsewhere saving another magical girl, she forced the Law of Cycles apart while holding onto the human part of Madoka.

As for Urobuchi, it's not like he had to explicitly tell the audience in an interview so we could understand. The interviewer just probably thought it was a good question.

Faust91x said:
Yeah that too, I actually thought at the middle they would show that all the others were only familiars or products of Homura's delusional mind. If they were it would have been even more tragic as it would mean Homura is really all alone.

I always wondered why Homura never questioned that but I'll go with the memory reset and despair clouded her judgment.

I don't know how canon The Different Story manga is, but on it



I'm sorry about being so harsh, I'm just used to watching shows such as BBC Sherlock and the like where everything has a point and even the smallest hints count. I like it when they make use of information previously established or hidden to present a strong argument.

EDIT:
On it not being a plot point. That conversation motivated Homura into saving Madoka from her goddess state. I'd say it was very influential even though to me was just to justify the ending.

Faust91x said:
I'm referring more about Madoka talking to her when they were in the barrier. I still don't get why Madoka had to lend her memories when Sayaka and Nagisa kept them (and did nothing useful with the information...Homura had to uncover everything herself...).

I answered your Reddit post but will submit it here, on it you said that Madoka varies depending on the timeline and that Homura was actually obeying the petition of Timeline 3 Madoka. But in episode 12 Madoka tells her that she finally understands Homura after having watched her suffer in all the other timelines, so in my opinion Madokami had the widest knowledge and thus the most information to make a decision. By keeping her memories Madoka could have talked with the distressed and confused Homura with the truth, that she had become a witch and that Madoka was there to take her away but the Incubators were interfering. Give Homura the emotional support she needed and maybe even work a way that was mutually beneficial and that thwarted the Incubators.

Maybe even have Madoka temporarily let Homura take her power and ruin the Incubators for good or take over her role and give Madoka a happy life until she was ready to go back to being the Law of Cycles (kinda like an extended vacations for God that would end when Madoka was 100 years old or so). Obviously if this happened it would be a cop out ending and the flames would be worse, but its an idea.

What I didn't like was for all things to conveniently be there, the plot felt kinda forced so that Homura could reach the conclusion at the end when it could have been managed better.

FierceAlchemist said:

I think the difference with Homura is that she was already a witch. She didn't need to be tempted to fall into despair because she already had. She just took the form of Homura the magical girl in order to continue the deception.

FierceAlchemist said:

There's no doubt that a Madoka with her memories would have been able to comfort Homura more in that scene, but the whole point was that if Madoka was Godoka in the soul gem world, Kyubey would know and would be able to trap her. She gave her memories and powers to Nagisa and Sayaka because Kyubey wasn't focused on them, so Kyubey would think Madoka has been affected by the barrier world's memory wiping. Her only opportunity to talk to Homura as Godoka is when they're in the real world which, as I said, doesn't really work.

cruiser2710 said:
I have a question to ask. This's been running through my mind when she descended into the realm of despair and beyond.

To me, Homura is similar to Vader. Both wanted to protect the one that they love. Both were "willing" to do it by any means necessary even if they become the very embodiment of "evil" itself.

During the scene where Homura the Witch fought against the 4 of them, Battle of the Heroes was running through my mind. Just like Vader..... Is it possible, even in the most slightest and most remote of possibility, Homura needs to become the very evil that she had swore to fight in order to bring back balance and peace to the universe?

Urobuchi actually referenced Anakin and Homura in an interview. http://feral-phoenix.livejournal.com/685568.html

How do you want the fans to enjoy “Rebellion?”

Urobuchi: Honestly, I think some will beautify it and some will reject it completely. These days, static characters who don’t change are popular, and if characters ever change even a little bit there’ll be people who’ll call that out-of-character and get angry. In this movie, Homura grows, and she changes. In the end, I’m a little worried as to whether people will accept a character like her. If they’ll think she’s OOC, or that she’s evolved. I’ll be happy if people accept that Madoka Magica is the kind of drama where characters grow and change like this. But that’s up to the viewers to decide.

Stories where characters grow and change are very traditional. Does this mean that Madoka Magica is conforming to archetype?

Urobuchi: Even in “Star Wars”, Anakin is a cute little kid in Episode I, but by Episode III he grows up to be Darth Vader. But you know, “that’s how stories are”. I think the choice of whether or not to accept that is up to the viewers.

bluedragon777 said:
It is cliched that they established this kind of evil vs god with Homura nad Madoka,but yeah Homura only had good intentions.

straggy said:


She was battling the Walpurgisnacht that was going to destroy the world all by herself. She was therefore protecting the world by doing that.

adipati_sepuh said:
The problem with Homura is that everybody still expects her to keep her sanity after all she has gone through. Think about 14 years old girl who has seen her loved ones died not once, but MANY times. That at least changes something in her head. IMO this explains why she does that thing at the end of Rebellion.

adipati_sepuh said:
The problem with Homura is that everybody still expects her to keep her sanity after all she has gone through. Think about 14 years old girl who has seen her loved ones died not once, but MANY times. That at least changes something in her head. IMO this explains why she does that thing at the end of Rebellion.

Botato said:
]
Well, she's a witch.

Botato said:
Hmmm..
Not insane, but after 8 years I'd say she's really desperate and would do anything to protect Madoka, even if it's to "pull her down from heaven and undermine her."

ssjokg said:
Well that is basically most of her character..

GibsonFlyingV said:
I honestly love the depth that the movie added to her character. She went from generic "I have to save my friends!", to extremely complex with selfishly obsessive flaws. Absolutely awesome development and I hope that the franchise is officially over and does not do anything to "solve" this.

Botato said:
There's nothing to solve about Homura.
But there's something called "annoying cliff hanger ending" that screams "fix me!!"

Ghostalker said:
the movie for me is a closure of Homura's story something that was not really done in the TV series

Ghostalker said:
that someone who wishes for a 4th film or a continuation of Madoka and believes in the power of happy ending are just fooling themselves. Just let go of Madoka Magica, not letting it go doesn't make us any better than the Homura who decides to rebel in the 3rd film ----->>>> unable to let go, bound by endless loops, the more we wish for a sequel the more Madoka become distance to the viewers just like the situation Homura is right now.

Botato said:

That's true but it's not what I'm talking about.



Uhhh okay?
I don't want a happy ending, just a more resolved ending because I didn't find Rebellion's ending satisfying enough as a "closure" to the story.