Who is the strongest servant in Fate-verse?
| Yeah guys, you're forgetting that Kirei... |
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| They also forget that he has two Servants under his belt: Lancer and Gilgamesh. And yeah, unlike Tokiomi, Gilgamesh is fine with Kirei using and wasting Command Spells as he wants. The trick with Gilgamesh is making him like you to function properly. Kirei did that effortlessly. |
ThessMay 21, 2012 2:45 PM
| Anyways since servant battles are about compatibility, its hard to make tier lists. Instead I think match based are more logical...without PIS or CIS. FSN lancer: not held back by that stupid command spell and under Kotomine obvious stuff like Gil and avenger will not be included > Is win < Is loss = Is draw or mutual death Cu Chulainn < or = Diarmuid (in ireland its Cu Chulainn's win) < hercules >EMIYA >Lancelot >Medusa >Shirou Saber and Kiritsugu Saber <Rin Saber and Saber Alter >Iskander >Gilles >True assassin and Zero Assassin >Sasaki Kojirou >Medea Any objections so far? |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| I' BloodRequiem said: I'd object with F/SN Rider. Shinji Rider is pure shit, but Real Rider can obliterate him. She can actually even totally petrify him with her Mystic Eyes and open him up to quick death via Bellerophon or however she wants. The only weakness Real Medusa has is the limits of her Master which are similar to Kariya's, except for the fact Kariya sucked as a Mage and Medusa's Master doesn't.Anyways since servant battles are about compatibility, its hard to make tier lists. Instead I think match based are more logical...without PIS or CIS. FSN lancer: not held back by that stupid command spell and under Kotomine obvious stuff like Gil and avenger will not be included > Is win < Is loss = Is draw or mutual death Cu Chulainn < or = Diarmuid (in ireland its Cu Chulainn's win) < hercules >EMIYA >Lancelot >Medusa >Shirou Saber and Kiritsugu Saber <Rin Saber and Saber Alter >Iskander >Gilles >True assassin and Zero Assassin >Sasaki Kojirou >Medea Any objections so far? |
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Leon-Gun said: I'd object with F/SN Rider. Shinji Rider is pure shit, but Real Rider can obliterate him. She can actually even totally petrify him with her Mystic Eyes and open him up to quick death via Bellerophon or however she wants. Nasu gives the edge to Cu Chulainn over Medusa, because he's specialized in killing monsters like her (it's same of Lancelot > Arturia). One Gae Bolg and she's done for under Sakura. She has freaking Luck E. He also has a bag of tricks like Rune Magic (which counters Mystic Eyes according to Nasu), not dying while he's killed, etc. In a normal battles, Lancer would destroy Rider easily. Rider needs more planning to win this. We're going for who will easily trump since the beginning. Now we don't even know how Lancer would perform under Bazett. |
ThessMay 21, 2012 3:44 PM
BloodRequiem said: Anyways since servant battles are about compatibility, its hard to make tier lists. Instead I think match based are more logical...without PIS or CIS. FSN lancer: not held back by that stupid command spell and under Kotomine obvious stuff like Gil and avenger will not be included > Is win < Is loss = Is draw or mutual death Cu Chulainn < or = Diarmuid (in ireland its Cu Chulainn's win) < hercules >EMIYA >Lancelot >Medusa >Shirou Saber and Kiritsugu Saber <Rin Saber and Saber Alter >Iskander >Gilles >True assassin and Zero Assassin >Sasaki Kojirou >Medea Any objections so far? I really doubt that ranking would hold true... Lancelot could easily dodge Gae Bolg due to his high Luck + Protection of the Fairies, then once he touches Gae Bolg Lancer is done for. Alexander could easily dodge Gae Bolg, because he has A+ Luck, and then Ionoi Hetairoi -> Lancer gone... Gilles... not if he summons Cthulu, that thing needs an anti-castle NP, of which Lancer has none. |
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Pan151 said: I really doubt that ranking would hold true... Lancelot could easily dodge Gae Bolg due to his high Luck + Protection of the Fairies, then once he touches Gae Bolg Lancer is done for. Alexander could easily dodge Gae Bolg, because he has A+ Luck, and then Ionoi Hetairoi -> Lancer gone... Gilles... not if he summons Cthulu, that thing needs an anti-castle NP, of which Lancer has none. They should have clarified Lancer with Bazett (but Bazett as the Master makes everything unfair, she can even make Avenger win the Grail War). |
Pan151 said: BloodRequiem said: Anyways since servant battles are about compatibility, its hard to make tier lists. Instead I think match based are more logical...without PIS or CIS. FSN lancer: not held back by that stupid command spell and under Kotomine obvious stuff like Gil and avenger will not be included > Is win < Is loss = Is draw or mutual death Cu Chulainn < or = Diarmuid (in ireland its Cu Chulainn's win) < hercules >EMIYA >Lancelot >Medusa >Shirou Saber and Kiritsugu Saber <Rin Saber and Saber Alter >Iskander >Gilles >True assassin and Zero Assassin >Sasaki Kojirou >Medea Any objections so far? I really doubt that ranking would hold true... Lancelot could easily dodge Gae Bolg due to his high Luck + Protection of the Fairies, then once he touches Gae Bolg Lancer is done for. Alexander could easily dodge Gae Bolg, because he has A+ Luck, and then Ionoi Hetairoi -> Lancer gone... Gilles... not if he summons Cthulu, that thing needs an anti-castle NP, of which Lancer has none. You forget striking death flight which will get Lancelot every time. Gilles needs time to summon his sea monster then basically every servant without an Anti fortress will be screwed. PIS and CIS are off so it would be really illogical for a servant to give his opponent several minutes to complete a summoning ritual. In a straight up battle Gilles sucks. Again striking death flight applies to Iskander. Lancer with Bazett will be too haxed. |
BloodRequiemMay 21, 2012 3:50 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: You forget striking death flight which will get Lancelot every time. Gilles needs time to summon his sea monster and basically every servant without an Anti fortress will be screwed. It would be really illogical for a servant to give his opponent several minutes to complete a summoning ritual. In a straight up battle Gilles sucks. Again striking death flight applies to Iskander. Lancelot has the biggest luck rating due to fairy hax. So I think he'll win this one. Gilles... on the other hand, even within the monster, the spear will reach him (luck E, IIRC) because it's supposed to do it no matter what (concept only trumped by luck). Of course, the monster would probably still be around but that's not Caster anymore. :) Alexander can evade it with LUCK A+. He'll be injured but he is the superior Heroic Spirit. Out of the Servants in the war, I can see Cuchulainn join forces with him... They have a similar easy going temper and liking for sporty battle (plus he doesn't give a damn about the Grail). |
Pan151 said: Summoning of monsters and spirits take time and preparations. The only reason Caster even managed to call on Cthulu was because everyone ignored his actions until the very end.Gilles... not if he summons Cthulu, that thing needs an anti-castle NP, of which Lancer has none. As for Lancer > Medusa... I guess I can see it happenning if he's not as gung-ho as usual. If he goes in guns-blazing however he can be tricked. The reason Medusa hides all her real weapons behind limiters is to trick opponnents after all. But yeah, I had forgotten Gae Bolg has an edge against monsters but we'd have to assume Lancer knows of Medusa's identity from the start. Lancer under Bazzet would be total overkill btw. |
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Thess said: BloodRequiem said: You forget striking death flight which will get Lancelot every time. Gilles needs time to summon his sea monster and basically every servant without an Anti fortress will be screwed. It would be really illogical for a servant to give his opponent several minutes to complete a summoning ritual. In a straight up battle Gilles sucks. Again striking death flight applies to Iskander. Lancelot has the biggest luck rating due to fairy hax. So I think he'll win this one. Gilles... on the other hand, even within the monster, the spear will reach him (luck E, IIRC) because it's supposed to do it no matter what (concept only trumped by luck). Of course, the monster would probably still be around but that's not Caster anymore. :) Alexander can evade it with LUCK A+. He'll be injured but he is the superior Heroic Spirit. Out of the Servants in the war, I can see Cuchulainn join forces with him... They have a similar easy going temper and liking for sporty battle (plus he doesn't give a damn about the Grail). I meant the Anti Army carpet bombing version=striking death flight. That will get Lancelot and Iskander every time. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: I meant the Anti Army carpet bombing version=striking death flight. I don't think Alexander would even bring his armies in this, the chariot is enough, you know. But once again, I think Cuchulainn would join Alexander rather than try to kill him. He has absolutely no qualms to befriend and ally the 'enemy' (when he doesn't hate them as he does with Kotomine), plus he has no interest in the Grail. I can't imagine any of them fighting to the death to take this seriously. Leon-Gun said: Pan151 said: Summoning of monsters and spirits take time and preparations. The only reason Caster even managed to call on Cthulu was because everyone ignored his actions until the very end.Gilles... not if he summons Cthulu, that thing needs an anti-castle NP, of which Lancer has none. As for Lancer > Medusa... I guess I can see it happenning if he's not as gung-ho as usual. If he goes in guns-blazing however he can be tricked. The reason Medusa hides all her real weapons behind limiters is to trick opponnents after all. But yeah, I had forgotten Gae Bolg has an edge against monsters but we'd have to assume Lancer knows of Medusa's identity from the start. Lancer under Bazzet would be total overkill btw. Lancer and Rider have matched speeds. Immediately output of speed is his, while general is hers (although he's faster when he waits for strikes). She's always weak against anti-monsters types, it's not really something Lancer needs to 'find out'. His magic will block what her Mystic Eyes (Nasu said so), so that was the only advantage she has over him. Using her NP takes more time than his (which is low use and immediate). It'll be her death either way (the spear will ALWAYS reach her no matter what), meanwhile Lancer is a cockroach of survival (battle Continuation A is mean and he can Disengage to try again when something is unfavorable). Anyone with Bazett that isn't a weak Assassin, Caster or Avenger is unfair advantage. A lot of the Servant performances depend on the Master matchups. |
| Even if Iskander doesn't bring out IH, there's no way he can dodge the anti army version. Cu Chulainn backed up 100 meters in the blink of a eye which puts him at at least mach 2 speed so he could easily sidestep Gordius Wheel like Diarmuid did. |
BloodRequiemMay 21, 2012 4:07 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: Even if Iskander doesn't bring out IH, there's no way he can dodge the anti army version. ...The Anti army version is the blockable one (his chariot could do it since it has a greater rank). The unit version is the sure hit one that can only be evaded by luck. |
Thess said: BloodRequiem said: Even if Iskander doesn't bring out IH, there's no way he can dodge the anti army version. ...The Anti army version is the blockable one (his chariot could do it since it has a greater rank). The unit version is the sure hit one that can only be evaded by luck. So Gordius Wheel is a shield now? Because the Anti army version explodes into a mass of thorns that pierces anything in the vicinity. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: So Gordius Wheel is a shield now? It's a Noble Phantasm that travels pretty fast for Lancer to AIM. He needs to slay the lighting bulls to even get to Rider. If his luck was Medusa-tier, Cu could use the normal Gae Bolg (which is better IMO) and call it a day. |
Thess said: BloodRequiem said: So Gordius Wheel is a shield now? It's a Noble Phantasm that travels pretty fast for Lancer to AIM. He needs to slay the lighting bulls to even get to Rider. If his luck was Medusa-tier, Cu could use the normal Gae Bolg (which is better IMO) and call it a day. He doesn't really need to aim when it's carpet bombing. Though I do agree that they'll become drinking buddies. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: He doesn't really need to aim when it's carpet bombing. Though I do agree that they'll become drinking buddies. Which would depend who is faster? Remember that chariot was barely dodged by freaking Diarmuid who has Mind's Eye True and an agility greater than CuChulainn, plus only because Rider wasn't aiming at him, only Berserker. I'll give Rider the edge in the fight because he can just run over him with the chariot which seems to be his first impulse. While Cuchulainn rarely goes for the thrown version of the spear (only did this because Nasu wanted Archer to survive that match). Of course after this, he'll survive (since he's very good at this) and take up the joining offer. I can't foresee blood spilled between them. |
Thess said: BloodRequiem said: He doesn't really need to aim when it's carpet bombing. Though I do agree that they'll become drinking buddies. Which would depend who is faster? Remember that chariot was barely dodged by freaking Diarmuid who has Mind's Eye True and an agility greater than CuChulainn, plus only because Rider wasn't aiming at him, only Berserker. I'll give Rider the edge in the fight because he can just run over him with the chariot which seems to be his first impulse. While Cuchulainn rarely goes for the thrown version of the spear (only did this because Nasu wanted Archer to survive that match). Of course after this, he'll survive (since he's very good at this) and take up the joining offer. I can't foresee blood spilled between them. I guess it would depend on who is faster. Cu Chulainn can rune boost too. Anyways up next: Medusa with Sakura as master Medusa>EMIYA >Iskander <Hercules >Lancelot <Sabers >Gilles >Zero Assassin >True assassin >Kojirou >Medea >Gilles |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: I meant the Anti Army carpet bombing version=striking death flight. That will get Lancelot and Iskander every time. Actually no. It would get Lancelot but it most probably wouldn't kill him. And as for Alexander... no chance. That thing has a maximum range of 40m and a maximum capacity of 50 people. Alexander can easily move away with his chariot, then use his 2000+ Servants to take Lancer down... Lancer doesn't even stand a chance... |
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| Considering that Saber needed a special prana-bursted bike to keep up with the chariot, you really should know the answer. BloodRequiem said: >Iskander >Lancelot Seriously doubt it. You need to consider how they usually fight. Medusa doesn't go for Mystic Eyes at all, unless Sakura is somewhat involved. She prefers to do her spider-snake-like fighting. Neither of them (specially Iskandar) would threaten Sakura (lol Lancelot is fighting for Sakura in an indirect way). First Lancelot, who is the most skilled in battle among all these Servants, and has high stats overall. He would demolish her in battle before she can react. Kind of what happened against Kuzuki, who was most skilled in his technique. Iskandar usually goes for his chariot as default. While Medusa usually... hangs around the floor and tries to fight with those spikes she has as default. One hit and she's done for. |
Pan151 said: BloodRequiem said: I meant the Anti Army carpet bombing version=striking death flight. That will get Lancelot and Iskander every time. Actually no. It would get Lancelot but it most probably wouldn't kill him. And as for Alexander... no chance. That thing has a maximum range of 40m and a maximum capacity of 50 people. Alexander can easily move away with his chariot, then use his 2000+ Servants to take Lancer down... Lancer doesn't even stand a chance... Lancelot cant tank that attack and striking death flight's range is not 40 meters...the max that was shown was 40km and can prob go further. Also you are assuming Iskander has IH open at the start of the fight. Thess said: Considering that Saber needed a special prana-bursted bike to keep up with the chariot, you really should know the answer. BloodRequiem said: >Iskander >Lancelot Seriously doubt it. You need to consider how they usually fight. Medusa doesn't go for Mystic Eyes at all, unless Sakura is somewhat involved. She prefers to do her spider-snake-like fighting. Neither of them (specially Iskandar) would threaten Sakura (lol Lancelot is fighting for Sakura in an indirect way). First Lancelot, who is the most skilled in battle among all these Servants, and has high stats overall. He would demolish her in battle before she can react. Kind of what happened against Kuzuki, who was most skilled in his technique. Iskandar usually goes for his chariot as default. While Medusa usually... hangs around the floor and tries to fight with those spikes she has as default. One hit and she's done for. I said in that Lancer post it was PIS and CIS off (or else servants like Gil will be the subject of trolls saying "overconfident therefore loses") PIS CIS off Medusa pulls mystic eyes right off the bat. Iskander with his rank D magic resistance and C for mana stands no chance. Medusa doesn't need to charge Lancelot head on. Use noble phantasm and Lancelot can't do shit against pegasus. Bellerophon doesn't take that long to use. |
BloodRequiemMay 21, 2012 5:12 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: PIS CIS off Medusa pulls mystic eyes right off the bat. Iskander with his rank D magic resistance and C for mana stands no chance. Medusa doesn't need to charge Lancelot head on. Use noble phantasm and Lancelot can't do shit against pegasus. Bellerophon doesn't take that long to use. Well, idk for Lancelot, but Medusa's eyes are useless against Alexander. If he ever get's petrified, then he can simply use his reality marble - he doesn't need to move or anything - and materialise far enough from medusa to actually break the effect. Then he can drop the reality marble (because it's useless againsty her) and then we'd have a lovely Bellerophon vs Via Expugnatio air battle... |
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BloodRequiem said: PIS CIS off Medusa pulls mystic eyes right off the bat. Iskander with his rank D magic resistance and C for mana stands no chance. She rarely removes the blindfold. BloodRequiem said: Medusa doesn't need to charge Lancelot head on. Use noble phantasm and Lancelot can't do shit against pegasus. When has Medusa ever noble phantasm head on? That's right. Never. You're going against Berserker Lancelot who jumps out nowhere and beats your ass as common greeting. Medusa's doomed against those attacks, even when they are performed by non Servants (see Kuzuki). Secondly Arondight would be able to perform a saving thrown against pegasus with ease. It killed a dragon which is more powerful than pegasus. Also you're forgetting a detail: Lancelot was ran over Rider's chariot and survived and that Arondight makes him more powerful (in addition of being a sword that cannot receive any damage!). Pan151 said: If he ever get's petrified, then he can simply use his reality marble - he doesn't need to move or anything - and materialise far enough from medusa to actually break the effect. Then he can drop the reality marble (because it's useless againsty her) and then we'd have a lovely Bellerophon vs Via Expugnatio air battle... Some of his soldiers have higher stats than Iskandar himself. They could finish her. |
Pan151 said: BloodRequiem said: PIS CIS off Medusa pulls mystic eyes right off the bat. Iskander with his rank D magic resistance and C for mana stands no chance. Medusa doesn't need to charge Lancelot head on. Use noble phantasm and Lancelot can't do shit against pegasus. Bellerophon doesn't take that long to use. Well, idk for Lancelot, but Medusa's eyes are useless against Alexander. If he ever get's petrified, then he can simply use his reality marble - he doesn't need to move or anything - and materialise far enough from medusa to actually break the effect. Then he can drop the reality marble (because it's useless againsty her) and then we'd have a lovely Bellerophon vs Via Expugnatio air battle... What? Reality marbles break petrification now? How? Pegasus has more durability and is faster (needs to be confirmed). And I'm pretty sure the trampling NP attack wont work in the air. Lancelot only survived Iskander's attack because it wasn't a head on collision. And just because Medusa doesn't usually use mystic eyes or NP right away doesn't mean she can't. Or else it would just end up with Gil going easy on everyone when we get to him. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
Well, you can materialise yourself and your opponent pretty much however you want inside a Reality Marble. And if you materialise Medusa 100 metres away I think it would be fairly obvious that she couldn't use her mystic eyes on you anymore... As for the air-fight, idk... she sure has much better agility, but her endurance is pathetic - a single hit from Rider's chariot would finish her off instantly... |
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Pan151 said: Well, you can materialise yourself and your opponent pretty much however you want inside a Reality Marble. And if you materialise Medusa 100 metres away I think it would be fairly obvious that she couldn't use her mystic eyes on you anymore... As for the air-fight, idk... she sure has much better agility, but her endurance is pathetic - a single hit from Rider's chariot would finish her off instantly... Pegasus boosts durability and IH takes time to materialize. And by that logic Archer coulda just opened UBW on Medusa in HF... |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: What? Reality marbles break petrification now? How? It's a bounded field that affects targets in her range (what will happen to a bounded field within a reality marble I have no freaking clue). Also, within the RM, Rider can place where wherever he wants. Furthermore, as we know in VG I, his Servants have Noble Phantasms (aside of the ones with better stats than his-with Waver as Master-). Since we don't know what they are, makes Rider very difficult to measure overall. What if one happens to have an anti monster Noble Phantasm? That's why I always... hesitate to include Rider in this because this bit of information is vague. :/ BloodRequiem said: Pegasus has more durability and is faster (needs to be confirmed). Actually, they are about the same. What Saber faced in FZ was a weakened version since Rider wasn't in his best state: “About that… if all goes well, I won't be able to use Gordius Wheel in its most powerful form, but simple flight shouldn’t be a problem.” Only flight one (convenient!). He can easily use lightning strikes without even TOUCHING pegasus. Which naturally couldn't use in his Saber battle because lolpranaloss convenient. BloodRequiem said: Pegasus boosts durability and IH takes time to materialize. And by that logic Archer coulda just opened UBW on Medusa in HF... IH was pretty immediate against Caster's beast. |
ThessMay 21, 2012 5:36 PM
| Summoning pegasus wont take longer than opening IH. IH is useless against pegasus so it will prob end up with air battle which I think pegasus will win. And for Arondight: Not enough information is given on how it actually works. We don't even know that limitless factor is even passive or requires activation. Sure Nasu or Urobuchi can say all they want but without actual feats to back it up those are some very dubious claims. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: Summoning pegasus wont take longer than opening IH. IH is useless against pegasus so it will prob end up with air battle which I think pegasus will win. More of a Via Expugnatio vs Pegasus double KO. Then Medusa vs Rider and his men. |
Thess said: BloodRequiem said: Summoning pegasus wont take longer than opening IH. IH is useless against pegasus so it will prob end up with air battle which I think pegasus will win. More of a Via Expugnatio vs Pegasus double KO. Then Medusa vs Rider and his men. I'm not saying that I'm right but I'm pretty sure that NP boosted trampling attack won't work in the air because its pretty much impossible to trample in the air... |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: Pan151 said: Well, you can materialise yourself and your opponent pretty much however you want inside a Reality Marble. And if you materialise Medusa 100 metres away I think it would be fairly obvious that she couldn't use her mystic eyes on you anymore... As for the air-fight, idk... she sure has much better agility, but her endurance is pathetic - a single hit from Rider's chariot would finish her off instantly... Pegasus boosts durability and IH takes time to materialize. And by that logic Archer coulda just opened UBW on Medusa in HF... The whole thing took place inside Bloodfort Andromeda, which cuts off connection with the outside and escape routes. Reality Marbles presumably fall under the category of escaping and thus are not useable. Also, Medusa's eyes only completely petrify owithin close distance. Even Shirou was able to move under their influence, simply because he was standing a bit further back - I doubt Alexander would ever get close enough for Medua's eyes to work in the first place... |
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BloodRequiem said: Thess said: BloodRequiem said: Summoning pegasus wont take longer than opening IH. IH is useless against pegasus so it will prob end up with air battle which I think pegasus will win. More of a Via Expugnatio vs Pegasus double KO. Then Medusa vs Rider and his men. I'm not saying that I'm right but I'm pretty sure that NP boosted trampling attack won't work in the air because its pretty much impossible to trample in the air... The trampling isn't everything. The chariot itself and the lighting is another effect. None of this Rider could use against Saber because he was limited to flight when they fought (prana exhaustion). BloodRequiem said: Sure Nasu or Urobuchi can say all they want but without actual feats to back it up those are some very dubious claims. Eh, you're disregarding word of god. Lancelot wouldn't even need to use this. Medusa is dead the second he punches her. She's pretty weak against surprise attacks of trained people who are faster and stronger than she is. No need to even measure Noble Phantasms here. Even if we do, Arondight is going to be powerful as Excalibur 'sister' blade in terms of divine mystery. Even Nasu admits Lancelot is a brutal hax. |
Pan151 said: BloodRequiem said: Pan151 said: Well, you can materialise yourself and your opponent pretty much however you want inside a Reality Marble. And if you materialise Medusa 100 metres away I think it would be fairly obvious that she couldn't use her mystic eyes on you anymore... As for the air-fight, idk... she sure has much better agility, but her endurance is pathetic - a single hit from Rider's chariot would finish her off instantly... Pegasus boosts durability and IH takes time to materialize. And by that logic Archer coulda just opened UBW on Medusa in HF... The whole thing took place inside Bloodfort Andromeda, which cuts off connection with the outside and escape routes. Reality Marbles presumably fall under the category of escaping and thus are not useable. Also, Medusa's eyes only completely petrify owithin close distance. Even Shirou was able to move under their influence, simply because he was standing a bit further back - I doubt Alexander would ever get close enough for Medua's eyes to work in the first place... Sakura's command not to harm Shirou. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: Sakura's command not to harm Shirou. No, the eyes can only work at people during their range. It also turns into a divine mystery vs divine mystery contest (since we're dealing with bounded field and reality marble). What is more powerful a gorgon's eyes or a legendary army that 'conquered the world'? |
Thess said: BloodRequiem said: Thess said: BloodRequiem said: Summoning pegasus wont take longer than opening IH. IH is useless against pegasus so it will prob end up with air battle which I think pegasus will win. More of a Via Expugnatio vs Pegasus double KO. Then Medusa vs Rider and his men. I'm not saying that I'm right but I'm pretty sure that NP boosted trampling attack won't work in the air because its pretty much impossible to trample in the air... The trampling isn't everything. The chariot itself and the lighting is another effect. None of this Rider could use against Saber because he was limited to flight when they fought (prana exhaustion). BloodRequiem said: Sure Nasu or Urobuchi can say all they want but without actual feats to back it up those are some very dubious claims. Eh, you're disregarding word of god. Lancelot wouldn't even need to use this. Medusa is dead the second he punches her. She's pretty weak against surprise attacks of trained people who are faster and stronger than she is. No need to even measure Noble Phantasms here. Even if we do, Arondight is going to be powerful as Excalibur 'sister' blade in terms of divine mystery. Even Nasu admits Lancelot is a brutal hax. Well the source material always goes above the word of god. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: Well the source material always goes above the word of god. Source Material has Medusa falling to a high school teacher... Plus Gilgamesh being cornered by a high school student. Maybe Rider can recruit high school professors for his army. Obviously Medusa's weakness. You see how ridiculous it is, right? |
Thess said: BloodRequiem said: Sakura's command not to harm Shirou. No, the eyes can only work at people during their range. It also turns into a divine mystery vs divine mystery contest (since we're dealing with bounded field and reality marble). What is more powerful a gorgon's eyes or a legendary army that 'conquered the world'? Range is probably a factor but if Iskander is within range: "Those who possess Rank C or lower in Mana will be immediately petrified." Shirou was prob either out of range or protected by plothax...like always. About Rider being defeated by Kuzuki (Having Shinji as a master is prob a factor) and Gil beaten by Shirou (Gil being a retard therefore all of the matches I posted had PIS and CIS off): You just misunderstood my sentence. What I meant was the feats demonstrated by the characters will always be taken into consideration before the word of god. Like how Shiki sliced Arc 17 times in an instant etc. (which is word of god but disproved by his feats later on) |
BloodRequiemMay 21, 2012 5:53 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: Pan151 said: BloodRequiem said: Pan151 said: Well, you can materialise yourself and your opponent pretty much however you want inside a Reality Marble. And if you materialise Medusa 100 metres away I think it would be fairly obvious that she couldn't use her mystic eyes on you anymore... As for the air-fight, idk... she sure has much better agility, but her endurance is pathetic - a single hit from Rider's chariot would finish her off instantly... Pegasus boosts durability and IH takes time to materialize. And by that logic Archer coulda just opened UBW on Medusa in HF... The whole thing took place inside Bloodfort Andromeda, which cuts off connection with the outside and escape routes. Reality Marbles presumably fall under the category of escaping and thus are not useable. Also, Medusa's eyes only completely petrify owithin close distance. Even Shirou was able to move under their influence, simply because he was standing a bit further back - I doubt Alexander would ever get close enough for Medua's eyes to work in the first place... Sakura's command not to harm Shirou. Well, Rin besides him can also move, so it's not the Command... |
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BloodRequiem said: Thess said: BloodRequiem said: Sakura's command not to harm Shirou. No, the eyes can only work at people during their range. It also turns into a divine mystery vs divine mystery contest (since we're dealing with bounded field and reality marble). What is more powerful a gorgon's eyes or a legendary army that 'conquered the world'? Range is probably a factor but if Iskander is within range: "Those who possess Rank C or lower in Mana will be immediately petrified." Shirou was prob either out of range or protected by plothax...like always. If he gets within range it will most probably be with in his Chariot going at Mach speed, which means he'll get out of range and will be depetrified immediatelly anyway |
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BloodRequiem said: Range is probably a factor but if Iskander is within range: "Those who possess Rank C or lower in Mana will be immediately petrified." If she pulls pegasus first (which was the reasoning of this battle), he will realize who she is. He's not stupid, he loves Greek myths and his 'father' is Zeus. Once again, her technique isn't the eyes, it's the BOUNDED FIELD she creates through them. We don't really know how would a bound field resists against a reality marble which it's a divine mystery is higher qualifier as factor. Within his RM, Rider can place himself and his army away from her range (since he chooses the positions). We don't know how many anti monsters specialized and NP his soldiers have. The issue about Rider's RM is that we never saw the full capacity because when he was going all out, Gilgamesh used EA all out. Point: Unlimited Blade Works isn't a 'real noble phantasm' (in CM). It also needs an incantation unlike IH. It doesn't have the divine mystery-quality measurement that Nasu uses to decide the battle wins rather than powerlevels. That's why you need to take them into account in the other battles. Higher divine mystery usually is the winner unless they are NP as Lancer's or Bazett's that have special properties. BloodRequiem said: About Rider being defeated by Kuzuki (Having Shinji as a master is prob a factor) It doesn't matter, she was one-hit-killed by Kuzuki. If "master is a factor", well duh, so does freaking Waver for Rider. And Kariya for Lancelot. Rider was at least getting prana from external resources. |
ThessMay 21, 2012 5:58 PM
| I can accept Lancelot winning against Medusa but I still think Medusa will win against Iskander. Iskander because Bellerophon was 90% of Excalibur's output (or something like that) and Excalibur owned Gordius Wheel. |
BloodRequiemMay 21, 2012 6:10 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: I can accept Lancelot winning against Medusa but I still think Medusa will win against Iskander. I don't know who will win between Iskandar and Medusa. Because of the bounded field vs reality marble factor which is unknown. Also details we don't know about his soldiers (including their np, attributes, etc). You understand what I'm trying to say? Their steeds would be about as equal in their optimal state. They have different effects. But yeah Lancelot is stupidly strong... He's not even my favorite Servant, but even one of his abilities can be summed up as "plothax" (protection of the fairies). BloodRequiem said: Iskander because Bellerophon was 90% of Excalibur's output (or something like that) and Excalibur owned Gordius Wheel. This is what Saber 'owned': “About that… if all goes well, I won't be able to use Gordius Wheel in its most powerful form, but simple flight shouldn’t be a problem.” Gen must have hated poor Arturia. He basically justified her victories as "lol her opponent was weakened" (aside of Caster) :/ |
ThessMay 21, 2012 6:08 PM
| Well considering the shit he dumped on Dairmuid's honor, Arturia probably wasn't one of his favourites. Based on what hes done before I'd imagine Gen liking someone like Sakura. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: Well considering the shit he dumped on Dairmuid's honor, Arturia probably wasn't one of his favourites. Based on what hes done before I'd imagine Gen liking someone like Sakura. He likes Dark Sakura, to be specific. He wanted loli Dark Sakura p. badly. |
Thess said: BloodRequiem said: Well considering the shit he dumped on Dairmuid's honor, Arturia probably wasn't one of his favourites. Based on what hes done before I'd imagine Gen liking someone like Sakura. He likes Dark Sakura, to be specific. He wanted loli Dark Sakura p. badly. loli dark Sakura....HNNNNNNNGGG |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: loli dark Sakura....HNNNNNNNGGG Don't forget Loli Hassan. Something tells me that Gen's lolicon. |
Thess said: BloodRequiem said: loli dark Sakura....HNNNNNNNGGG Don't forget Loli Hassan. Something tells me that Gen's lolicon. Lol loli Hassan... It's possible if you consider his other works (Madoka, Saya no Uta, etc.) that contain lolis.. |
sallym613 said: Lolis who then get thrown into the pits of hell. He's a sadistic lolicon.Thess said: BloodRequiem said: loli dark Sakura....HNNNNNNNGGG Don't forget Loli Hassan. Something tells me that Gen's lolicon. Lol loli Hassan... It's possible if you consider his other works (Madoka, Saya no Uta, etc.) that contain lolis.. |
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| I can't believe Hercules has only 10 votes. He should at least have the third most IMO. |
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