Naruto Chapter 686 Discussion

tsudecimo said:

The sage of six path existence was established since the introduction of the Rinnegan. Further more, Naruto power up is him having Rikodu powers, and having the yang seal which btw why he was able to save Gai from death:-


^ That happened more than 100 chapters ago, for all of those saying that Naruto healing power is hax or asspull. He is able to fly, because he has Rikkoudo powers, just like sage of six paths himself, and when Madara and Obito became the Jinchuriki.

5 powers up eh? I don't know what you mean by that. He got his godly powers from being the Jinchuriki of the ten tails, I'm not sure how is this an asspull, when it was the point of him and Obito fighting the Shinboi alliance. Black Zetsu, is what made him turn into Kagyua, or rather released his mother, because it said that she became part of the ten tails and it's creation after she was sealed.

When and where was it stated that BZ was s06p brother? he is the manifestation of Kagyua's will, as literally stated by himself. From what I remember it wasn't said that Kamui can't connect to other dimensions, because it was not a possibility in the first place, since Kagyua's dimensions were not known to them. A manga page of what you said would be appreciated.

What jutsus? Gai is able to use Taijustsu and the eight gates, Hirudora (which is classified as Taijutsu and Kinjutsu) and Ninja weapons (nunchucks). He was established to be weak when it comes to using Ninjustu and Genjutsu, and never used a high level ninjutsu before, although he is able to dispel a high-level genjutsu, and is able to summon that turtle, but that's about it. So yeah I'm not sure what jutsus Gai was able to do earlier but now later he couldn't. His main fight style was always Taijustu and the Eight gates, same as his student Lee, but unlike Lee, he could a bit more.

While I don't like the BZ plot twist. Kagyua and her backstory was established several chapters before it actually happened.


He doesn't need to keep the story longer, nobody is forcing the mangaka to end the series, since he is a very famous and successful mangaka, he can continue creating the manga as long as it's profitable. The decision for ending the manga came from himself, so he is free to shape the story into whatever conflict he think is better. And there was some subtle hints for continuing the story beyond Madara, I mean the whole Madara being the final antagonist is something the stupid fanbase decided on, much like the misconception about the author saying Naruto is going to end in 2014, in December last year, when he didn't say anything like that, and there is still no confirmed date for the manga ending. Hopefully it's at least in mid 2015.

And if that's the glaring problems you had with past 100 or so chapters from the top of your head, then maybe you are just not remembering the events clearly, seeing as some of what said is wrong and never happened (BZ being so6p brother, Gai thing). Nothing you said so far is an asspull or a plot hole.

TonyTonyStark said:

Killing Neji for shock value was easy, but Gai's inevitable death gets a no-go? Why? Makes no sense.

tsudecimo said:
While I think the execution of Neji's death was bad, and underwhelming for two reasons. One, he didn't have any significant screen time, and was neglected after the time skip, for no valid reason. Two, the actual way he died, was really meh (getting stabbed by those things)

But one thing for certain. His death was most definitely not even remotely for shock value. And had several layers of depth, and meaning to it. And had it's purposes. If it was for shock value, why not Chouji? why not Lee? Why not Kiba? why not the other side characters? Why only kill him, and not kill some other support characters too?

The answer to those questions, are because, it was supposed to mean something for Naruto specifically, and Hinata. Before that death, Naruto stated, while Obito was trying to break Kakashi's spirit ''I will never let my comrades die''. He has been going with those past words that were taught to Kakashi by Obito. This is why, Neji died in front of Naruto. It served a purpose to drive Obito's speech home, so Obito can shake down Naruto's resolve, to kick him while he was down sort of speak. Death of nameless ninjas, won't work to crush Naruto spirit, and dwell him in despair, any human no matter who he is, won't be as broken down, by the death of other people, compared to the death of someone he actually knows. It had to be someone who he had a personal connection with, an actual comrade. And it had to be Neji, because of Naruto and Hinata. No other person was suited to break Naruto from the despair, that was going to overcome him, and make him believe that his words are not empty, that Neji's sacrifice had meaning and wasn't in vain, other than Hinata, because Neji also means something to her, Neji's death should affect her too, and while Naruto was momentarily broken down in shock and panic, and was about to be consumed of fear, and despair, she remained calm for the sake of him, you can argue that Hinata, understands Naruto the most, since she watched him, from so long ago, and continued doing so. This is all references, and expansion of previous details, of the relationship between Naruto, Neji and Hinata, back in the Chunnin exam, and how their relationship with each other developed so much.

The layers of complexity and depth, I earlier mentioned were.

Neji's finally understanding what his father meant, what true freedom is like, his purpose, resolve, and ideals. Choosing your own destiny. A final conclusion to truly get what his father meant.

Neji's words to Naruto, and their reference to their meeting back then, and how Naruto significantly changed him, why he decided to save him and Hinata. Naruto ''Because you called me a loser'', Neji ''Because you called me a genius'''.

The relationship between Naruto, Hinata, and Neji and how it's completely different in so many ways, from the Chunnin exam.

Gave a chance to put emphasis on Obito's annoyance, and irritation of Naruto. Because he sees his former self in him. He is bitter, and wants Naruto to have a similar experience to his. Wanting validations, that it's not his fault, that he became this way, that anyone would become like him, at due time, because of the world they live in. To validate his ideology and to feel he is right in what he is doing, and that his plan is the only right course of action.

Obito's speech, and why Naruto was shaken down by Neji's death. Obito brutally attacking Naruto's biggest insecurities and fears, that we all know of, since the beginning of the series. Loneliness, if his comrades die, one after another like Neji, what will be left for him, and his hopes and ideals, what will those possibly do, if that truly happens. Acknowledgement. The speech, really got to Naruto and made him speechless, until Hinata snapped him out of it.

His death fulfilled what it's supposed to do, and had it purposes, all of what I wrote above, happened because of that particular death, and wouldn't have worked with other characters. The execution of the death itself was the only thing that was lacking, his death alone would have been more impactful if he had more screen time, and relevance, and wasn't basically neglected after the time skip. It was not random, or for mere shock value. Heck, I don't think that '' everyone can die in a war'' was one of the main reasons for it to happen.

jpem said:
It's especially shit when considering Gai's death specifically would have been one of the most badass deaths possible.

JizzyHitler said:
What the hell was the point of killing neiji off for anyhow? like final arcs should have casualties in action series especially with a series as many characters as this, but hes like the only major supporting character that has died in this war. It just feels sloppy how he shows up to die yet it adds on to nothing nor was he part of a larger group of impacting deaths, by making him the ONLY death of a major supporting character to lose his life.

jpem said:
Besides giving an awesome character a fitting ending and sticking to established lore. Had Madara not been written to have such absurd regeneration abilities the blow he landed could have actually been something important, potentially slowing Madara down enough so Naruto and Sasuke could fight him.

jpem said:
And how is Gai and the 8 gates being demoted to a plot device to show how awesome Naruto is any better than giving a character a worthy ending? There's pretty much nothing he can contribute to the series now.

I meant actually weakening him.

Not that any of this matters anymore.

Behemoth11 said:
Cover Tankōbon 70!

http://s7.directupload.net/images/140729/bhemvaxb.jpg

Sapewloth said:
That cover. My fears are being confirmed. Dammit, Kishi.

tsudecimo said:

Hmmmm?

embracebuddha said:
i heard from a couple friends that around that time kishi had sold the rights to the anime so he was being asked to extend the story for sales. i never researched it to confirm it but it does make some sense. plus its pretty much a sure thing that sasuke and naruto arent going to fight unless its for fun.