The Great Rift in the Fandom (Episode 11)

Fuhrer_Wrath said:
For example on Imdb, this season only has 2 episodes below a rating of 9.

Xilver said:

Yes, and those episodes were back to back, the alliance forming episodes. Those episodes are also #80 and #81 on IMDB for the entire show, mostly among OVAs.
So while 8.9 is not bad at all, for SNK it's on the absolute lowest end.
I expect them to get lower too, after the ending.

Manga community kept on coping that the series is brilliant, even a masterpiece up until the very ending, and only after ending a lot of previous problems started to get pointed out. And the general opinion of the series changed.
People really wanted this series, which is one of the few anime series that truly broke out onto the worldwide arena to be good, really good, to earn respect for the entire medium. And it had a real chance to. But alas.

Fuhrer_Wrath said:


Yes. And those episodes were immediately followed by episodes where the Alliance brutally kills of majority of the Yeagerists. And are one of the highest rated episodes of this season and AoT overall.
So make of that what you will.

I would love to know where you are getting your ranking of 80 and 81 for these episodes. Because right now on Imdb there are 9 AoT episodes with a rating below 8.9. That would firmly put both "Sunset" and "Pride" at 76 and 77 ranking out of the 86 episodes released till now.

And on this same line of argument. You said that 8.9 is at the absolute lower end of rating for AoT. Meaning a rating below 9 is indicative of the season bieng less well received.
Season 1 has 9 episodes with a rating below 9 with only one episode having a rating of 8.9.
And Season 2 has 3 episodes below 9. With 2 having a rating of 8.9 and one below 8.9.
Compared to that S4P2 only has 2 episodes at 8.9.
So S4P2 is already better and better received than both seasons 1 and 2.
So again I don't see how this season has a bigher divide when it's better received.

The general opinion about the series was already divided among the Manga readers after the Rumbling. And even after the ending. The manga readers were at worst divided over the ending.
And considering that the opinions of the majority of the general audiences/anime Onlies has been almost opposite of the manga readers/Yeagerists. With them bieng far more critical of Eren and supportive of characters like Gabi.
It's safe to assume that the biggest problem manga readers had, Alliance bieng presented as the good guys and , won't be a problem for them.

Like I said. Just look at the latest episode. The Alliance brutally murders the Yeagerists and it has one the best rating of the entire series.

D_Doc said:
Fuck the alliance. These last 2 definitely were not the best episodes of this season. These 2 are the most controversial ones. I just can't accept Eren as a villain. There is too much great backstory and understanding for him to be a villain. The best of this season definitely was the eren and zeke and Ymir one. So stop acting like a critic. Statistics won't make your opinion more factual.

Fuhrer_Wrath said:
I would love to know where you are getting your ranking of 80 and 81 for these episodes. Because right now on Imdb there are 9 AoT episodes with a rating below 8.9. That would firmly put both "Sunset" and "Pride" at 76 and 77 ranking out of the 86 episodes released till now.

And those episodes were immediately followed by episodes where the Alliance brutally kills of majority of the Yeagerists

Xilver said:

From imdb obviously. I just looked into everything released https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?series=tt2560140&view=simple&count=250&sort=user_rating,desc&ref_=tt_eps_rhs_sm
They're tied of course when it comes to score itself. But it doesn't matter really, 80 or 76, it's at absolute lower end.


The perception among general audience is that of "it's a legitimate conflict between old comrades put into terrible circumstance with legitimate stakes", and not "woow avengers are killing these evil nazis yasss". The general audience has full trust in Isayama, they don't believe yeagerists are a caricature, it doesn't help that mappa made the presentation of yeagerists much better, and especially Floch's. Which helps to create the illusion that the author isn't just shitting on one side. After the ending, it will become clear that yes this is indeed the avengers full of plot armor going on an adventure to save the world.
Once the illusion dissolves in retrospect people will fully understand that this episodes are indeed avengers killing stormtroopers. And will retrospectively also their reception. In the manga i thought this was just meh, i didn't hate it i didn't love it, i just wanted the yeagerist plotline to be done. I still had trust in Isayama to deliver in the end.
When you trust the author you tend to look at everything through rose-colored glasses.

Yes, the ending probably won't be received as badly as it was in the manga community. But what it will certainly do is turn snk from the anime of the decade that is to be remembered many many years after, to just another anime, with its ups and downs. People usually criticize less because they care less, those people were never going to be those to stick with the series after it ended for any prolonged time. Hardcore communities is what keeps series alive after their ending, manga community was simply far more hardcore than the anime one, that is almost always the case, and it is to be expected.

imbAF said:
Do you, really think the ending will turn aot from anime of the decade to another anime. Stop the cap bro, it's cringe...The only thing the ending will do, will increase the amount of debate in the fandom. But, we will have to wait and see, even tho it's pretty obvious that AOT will end, as the decade defining anime. And the only anime in the ENTITY industry, since it's beginning , that has broken multiple records, when it comes to viewership and ratings..But yeah,,, just another anime

Xilver said:

From imdb obviously. I just looked into everything released https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?series=tt2560140&view=simple&count=250&sort=user_rating,desc&ref_=tt_eps_rhs_sm
They're tied of course when it comes to score itself. But it doesn't matter really, 80 or 76, it's at absolute lower end.


The perception among general audience is that of "it's a legitimate conflict between old comrades put into terrible circumstance with legitimate stakes", and not "woow avengers are killing these evil nazis yasss". The general audience has full trust in Isayama, they don't believe yeagerists are a caricature, it doesn't help that Mappa made the presentation of yeagerists much better, and especially Floch's. Which helps to create the illusion that the author isn't just shitting on one side. After the ending, it will become clear that yes this is indeed the avengers full of plot armor going on an adventure to save the world.
Once the illusion dissolves in retrospect people will fully realize that these episodes are indeed avengers killing stormtroopers. And that will retrospectively also change their reception. In the manga i thought this was just meh, i didn't hate it i didn't love it, i just wanted the yeagerist plotline to be done. I still had trust in Isayama to deliver in the end.
When you trust the author you tend to look at everything through rose-colored glasses.

Yes, the ending probably won't be received as badly as it was in the manga community. But what it will certainly do is turn snk from the anime of the decade that is to be remembered many many years after, to just another anime, with its ups and downs. People usually criticize less because they care less, those people were never going to be those to stick with the series after it ended for any prolonged time. Hardcore communities is what keeps series alive after their ending, manga community was simply far more hardcore than the anime one, that is almost always the case, and it is to be expected.

The perception among general audience is that of "it's a legitimate conflict between old comrades put into terrible circumstance with legitimate stakes", and not "woow avengers are killing these evil nazis yasss". The general audience has full trust in Isayama, they don't believe yeagerists are a caricature, it doesn't help that Mappa made the presentation of yeagerists much better, and especially Floch's. Which helps to create the illusion that the author isn't just shitting on one side. After the ending, it will become clear that yes this is indeed the avengers full of plot armor going on an adventure to save the world.
Once the illusion dissolves in retrospect people will fully realize that these episodes are indeed avengers killing stormtroopers. And that will retrospectively also change their reception. In the manga i thought this was just meh, i didn't hate it i didn't love it, i just wanted the yeagerist plotline to be done. I still had trust in Isayama to deliver in the end.
When you trust the author you tend to look at everything through rose-colored glasses.

Yes, the ending probably won't be received as badly as it was in the manga community. But what it will certainly do is turn snk from the anime of the decade that is to be remembered many many years after, to just another anime, with its ups and downs. People usually criticize less because they care less, those people were never going to be those to stick with the series after it ended for any prolonged time. Hardcore communities is what keeps series alive after their ending, manga community was simply far more hardcore than the anime one, that is almost always the case, and it is to be expected

Fuhrer_Wrath said:
That majority of the people don't see this as Avengers vs Nazis. They see it as a complex conflict where former comrades have to fight each other because of conflicting idealogies.and that's because that is exactly how Isayama presents tbis battle.
It's only the ending haters that call this Avengers vs Nazis.

The Alliance is clearly killing Yeagerists in order to stop Eren. It is absolutely clear by now that the Alliance are the good guys. That they are trying to stop Eren. And because they are the good guys they will probably succeed.

Aot doesn't need a perfect ending to be remembered and recognized in pop culture history

Which was then remedied with a very confusing

Xilver said:

But it was indeed at the end.. just another anime/manga. Nothing more, nothing less. Just a shounen.
As regrettable as it is. We will, in fact, see it.

imbAF said:
But it wasn't tho. The fact that it's so controversial it's a sign that it ain't just another anime, let alone a shounen. But w/e makes you sleep at night I guess

D_Doc said:
Fuck the alliance. These last 2 definitely were not the best episodes of this season. These 2 are the most controversial ones. I just can't accept Eren as a villain. There is too much great backstory and understanding for him to be a villain. The best of this season definitely was the eren and zeke and Ymir one. So stop acting like a critic. Statistics won't make your opinion more factual.

Fuhrer_Wrath said:
Honestly it may seem like there is a rift because of a loud minority on both sides.

If you look at the ratings for this season. It's clear that the general audiences mostly like/love this season.
For example on Imdb, this season only has 2 episodes below a rating of 9.
And the last 3 episodes, which were essentially the Alliance coming together and then defeating the Yeagerists. Had a rating of 9, 9.5 and 9.8 respectively. One of the highest of the entire series.

People claiming that this season the writing is as bad as the last season of GoT. But last season of GoT had a much worse response.
Season 8 of GoT had Imdb ratings of 7.8 at best to 4.0 at worst.

This season has mostly had very positive response from the general audiences.

The people that are complaining are the weebs. And even among them a large portion are the manga readers that made up their mind last year.

mk_tb said:

There is a vital part you’re missing about the imdb ratings for the previous few episodes tho and it’s the popularity and number of reviews because normal aot ep average between 15 and 25k reviews and action packed episodes average between 45 up to 90k reviews on imdb, but non of the previous 4 episodes broke the 10k barrier and even the lastest ep which people put on par with the biggest aot episodes is far of the expected mark, which shows a general decline in interest and shows that a lot of the fandom either dropped or genuinely lost interest in the previous ark

Pio_neer said:


WRONG
>>Normal aot ep average between 15k-25k
Most season 1 and 2 episodes have around 11k ratings with a couple of exceptions
The same goes for season 3 episodes as well, with exception of basement episodes

>>Action-packed between 45k-90k
Besides perfect game and hero, not a single action ep crossed the 45k mark from season 1-3
Only 3 episodes the war hammer titan, Assault, and two brothers(Not entirely an action episode) crossed the 45K barrier from season 4(Judgement and Sneak attack are at 33 and 28K respectively)

Now only Hero reached close to 90k(88K at the moment), in 3 years.....it had just over 70K before season 4 part 2 premier and only 40k before season 4 part 1 premier (it had less than 20K when it first aired)


Now,
>>non of the previous 4 episodes broke the 10k barrier
Season 4 part 1 finished airing on Mar 27 now let's see how many votes each episode got
Screenshot of March 27 from way back machine https://web.archive.org/web/20210327064917/https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2560140/episodes
After episode 9, all episodes either barely crossed 10k or didn't even reach 10k(this includes one of the most loved episodes like sole salvation and action-heavy ones like Savagery as well..)
Now compare it with this season :), this season is performing better than the previous one I'd say
The no. ratings increased with time, most episodes got a huge boost after season 4 part 2(that'll happen with this season as well in one year probably)

mk_tb said:

yes the first 5 episodes of this season were performing very well but not the previous 3 which are the ones in question and the numbers don’t lie it’s pretty clear that the previous 3 episodes are not as popular as anything else s4 offered again you don’t compare with season 1 because it’s way too old and the hype and popularity were a lot less compared to now the latest example is two brothers and the 2 episodes that followed which crossed 10 to 15k reviews in less than 12 hours that’s when the hype was at it’s peak and the fandom was united the latest 3 episodes are not performing anyway near that level which shows the decrease in interest compared to when s4 part 2 was at it’s peak 4 episodes ago

Pio_neer said:

Now,
>>non of the previous 4 episodes broke the 10k barrier
Season 4 part 1 finished airing on Mar 27 now let's see how many votes each episode got
Screenshot of March 27 from way back machine https://web.archive.org/web/20210327064917/https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2560140/episodes
After episode 9, all episodes either barely crossed 10k or didn't even reach 10k(this includes one of the most loved episodes like sole salvation and action-heavy ones like Savagery as well..)
Now compare it with this season :), this season is performing better than the previous one I'd say
The no. ratings increased with time, most episodes got a huge boost after season 4 part 2(that'll happen with this season as well in one year probably)

Pio_neer said:

You said 'all' episodes that's why I gave season 1-3 examples...and did you read everything?

mk_tb said:
omg just leave it to fanboys to turn facts into a debate i mean the numbers are there now on the website for everyone to see it’s not a debate you can’t tell me that retrospective had the same hype and popularity as two brothers or memories of the future because it’s clearly not the case

Pio_neer said:



Dude, where did two brothers and memories of the future come from?
..." number are there now on the website for everyone to see it's not a debate "
That's what I am saying as well.....I even posted the link with way back machine..so you don't have to bother searching for it yourself....but welp you are repeating the same thing without reading what I wrote.... so good day ig.

mk_tb said:

There is a vital part you’re missing about the imdb ratings for the previous few episodes tho and it’s the popularity and number of reviews because normal aot ep average between 15 and 25k reviews and action packed episodes average between 45 up to 90k reviews on imdb, but non of the previous 4 episodes broke the 10k barrier and even the lastest ep which people put on par with the biggest aot episodes is far of the expected mark, which shows a general decline in interest and shows that a lot of the fandom either dropped or genuinely lost interest in the previous ark

Diehardoriginal said:


Build-up episodes always had less no. of ratings tho? for instance, in the first cour of season 4, the no. of votes decreased drastically in the second half of the season. They didn't broke 10k barrier either when the season was airing.

Fuhrer_Wrath said:
Honestly it may seem like there is a rift because of a loud minority on both sides.

If you look at the ratings for this season. It's clear that the general audiences mostly like/love this season.
For example on Imdb, this season only has 2 episodes below a rating of 9.
And the last 3 episodes, which were essentially the Alliance coming together and then defeating the Yeagerists. Had a rating of 9, 9.5 and 9.8 respectively. One of the highest of the entire series.

People claiming that this season the writing is as bad as the last season of GoT. But last season of GoT had a much worse response.
Season 8 of GoT had Imdb ratings of 7.8 at best to 4.0 at worst.

This season has mostly had very positive response from the general audiences.

The people that are complaining are the weebs. And even among them a large portion are the manga readers that made up their mind last year.