| I've been getting more and more into manga lately. Especially lot of the behind the scenes lately and I find lots of mangaka really fall into the one or two categories and mostly that later. They either have a majority of the story written out and in some cases story boarded from beginning to end (making tweaks along the way) or going in blind with a very vague idea, a lot of the beginning down pat but stumbling their way through the rest if not the whole later half of the series. And this doesn't just apply to Shounen which many fall into the later I believe (very few cases don't hxh, one piece, bnha) but especially romance Shoujo among many of the ridiculously epic sport manga that go on for eternity. Do you think mangaka should have a preplanned story ahead of time? The biggest fall back I can see on this is that lots of series get canceled and that'd be pretty disheartening to see a bunch of planning and hard work go into a story that'll never be finished. Or do you think these mangaka should go in for the most part blind and practically stumble upon fame and get greenlit to go further only to not have any idea how to extend or the usually biggest problem, not knowing how or where to end (cough). I think there can be a reasonable compromise in here but many of these publications are weekly. So having a month or so of a break a year to plan out the story is almost unheard of, unless you're Togashi, Miura, Araki, anyone who takes hiatus. Would planning make the story better? Or do mangaka who are writers shine under the pressure? |
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| I think they should be planned, but in a general way, not exactly how they think it should. Why I say that is that might lead to some issue, such as as you mentionned the serie being cancelled and that work would have been for nothing. Also, if you let yourself some leawa with the way you wrote your outline, you'd be able to gauge from fan reactions and have for exemple, some character do something you wouldn't have planned, or take an event in direction you wouldn't have taught to be popular but actualy is. I'm also under the impression that editors may or may not mess with the stories/concepts. I remember seeing here and there from randoms mangas side pages with interviews and Q&A and such that they we're forced to change settings, some characters (design or personality), to make them more popular/increase sales. I mean, it can be a good thing, but I'd rather have the author do his/her things how they planned it, because that's the way they wanted their stories to go, not because someone predicted this or that might be more popular. There's also other issues that might crop up, like deadlines or staff issues. But yeah, I think the best idea would be to have a general outline and let yourself some leaway in case somethings unexpected happens or need to change. |
ChibiRico8 said: I'm also under the impression that editors may or may not mess with the stories/concepts. I remember seeing here and there from randoms mangas side pages with interviews and Q&A and such that they we're forced to change settings, some characters (design or personality), to make them more popular/increase sales. I mean, it can be a good thing, but I'd rather have the author do his/her things how they planned it, because that's the way they wanted their stories to go, not because someone predicted this or that might be more popular. The biggest one I've seen with this issue is Naruto. Almost to the point where they changed the entire course of the manga. They made Kishi add Sasuke when Naruto didn't initially have a rival and after the first arc he was going to explore the world instead of the chunnin/tournament arc. Which over the course of rereading makes me feel like these changes were good for the story at the time but over the entire course of the series it really brings it down. Granted I haven't heard any other MASSIVE changes like that made publicly in interviews but I'm sure it happens more then we'd like to believe. I've heard it depends on what kind of relationship the mangaka and the editors have in the long run. And maybe some of these changes are good, I know a lot of the Dragon Ball manga changes were for a more arc moving story rather then stagnate but if the editor knows and understands the vision because the mangaka has the story decently laid out then I think these hiccups can be prevented. |
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| Hahahaha, Naruto is precisely what I was thinking of when I wrote that, actualy. And yeah, this is probably the biggest offender on such a case xD (In this case, it worse for me because I CANNOT stand Sasuke. The first second of the anime he appeared, the first pannel in the manga I've seen, I immediatly taught I would not like him, and damn was I right.) Bleach also had HUGE changes in it too, but for very different reasons than editor being involved, showing that there are many reasons for changes of plans. I remember reading that it was actualy supposed to end after the shinigami substitute/hogyoku arc and the whole hueco mondo and whatever else is after wasn't planned. There are rumors, don't know if they are confirmed or not, that it was because the author recieved a letter from a sick/possibly dying fan that wanted the serie to continue. I'm assuming Aizen was supposed to stay dead and that everything from this point on was completely improvised, which explains the massive contradictions on some rules the series had (I'm not an expert on that, but I read a few of them on boards, some are actualy interesting and makes you wonder why they even happened). Well damn, I just checked on that, and apparently, IT IS true. As much as I didn't like the direction Bleach took after that, that was a really cool move from Kubo. |
ChibiRico8 said: Hahahaha, Naruto is precisely what I was thinking of when I wrote that, actualy. And yeah, this is probably the biggest offender on such a case xD (In this case, it worse for me because I CANNOT stand Sasuke. The first second of the anime he appeared, the first pannel in the manga I've seen, I immediatly taught I would not like him, and damn was I right.) Bleach also had HUGE changes in it too, but for very different reasons than editor being involved, showing that there are many reasons for changes of plans. I remember reading that it was actualy supposed to end after the shinigami substitute/hogyoku arc and the whole hueco mondo and whatever else is after wasn't planned. There are rumors, don't know if they are confirmed or not, that it was because the author recieved a letter from a sick/possibly dying fan that wanted the serie to continue. I'm assuming Aizen was supposed to stay dead and that everything from this point on was completely improvised, which explains the massive contradictions on some rules the series had (I'm not an expert on that, but I read a few of them on boards, some are actualy interesting and makes you wonder why they even happened). Well damn, I just checked on that, and apparently, IT IS true. As much as I didn't like the direction Bleach took after that, that was a really cool move from Kubo. I neither hated nor liked Sasuke all that much. I think he was a nuisance to the story because he inadvertently became the duderagnist yet he got more story then Naruto somehow??? And Sakura was elevated to being the same importance because she was on the same team yet was so sidelined that she hardly mattered. So it ends up being so unbalanced in the long run and hardly structured to balance out Naruto in any other department other then power and somewhat half-baked ideals that never pan out. << Good call editors. Truly. And the whole gripe with Kishi not being able to explore the Naruto world in the end really effected the politics by the time the damn war came around so he ended up shooting himself in the foot with that one. So again. Editor call being truly aces here. To be fair. Kubo isn't all that good of a writer.....it's been years since I've read Zombie Powder but it's basically Bleach but more dull with the same writing faults kept in; just not as good of a concept or character bases. It should've ended with Aizen and honestly Bleach being as drawn out as it was, was the down fall. It should've been pretty close ended or maybe pull a Hunter x Hunter and let the story not be about Ichigo for a while. I think there would've still been issues but Ichigo isn't the best protagonist and seeing the story through Rukia for a while would've been ideal and good change of pace to explore the Soul Society. Aka what everyone obviously wanted if we were filling this story with fan pandering. Byakuya should've also stayed dead and Kubo shouldn't have budged on that either, fuck the fan out cry. |
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Stripes said: And Sakura was elevated to being the same importance To be fair. Kubo isn't all that good of a writer It should've ended with Aizen and honestly Bleach being as drawn out as it was, was the down fall. Byakuya should've also stayed dead and Kubo shouldn't have budged on that either, fuck the fan out cry. Sakura was such a wasted character... Even her actual good moments were because of someone else, like when she defeated Sasori, she was literaly someone's puppet and would probably not have defeated him if she wasn't controlled by granny what's-her-face. But to be fair, many mangakas have trouble figuring out how to create good female characters, for instance, Akira Torimaya often said he had no idea how to do women. I don't see how so many creators have issue with females characters, it shouldn't be that hard. I used to make girls all the time when I was on RP boards and nobody ever suspected I was in fact a dude. Like, don't create a character and then add a personality, starts with the personality and THEN had a gender, that way there really shouldn't be an issue, but I kinda got sidetracked here... Anyway... Fair enough xD Especialy with the (very) crap-tacular ending the manga had. Haven't read all of it but went ahead and read the ending. Could not have been more dissapointed xD It's funny you should say that because I saw a very interesting video a long time ago, where the guy was explaining what went wrong with Bleach and what caused its downfall, it was extremely well documented with actual sales chart for the mangas all around the globe and stuff like that. The very moment the manga was supposed to/and should have ended was where it started going downhill. It came up a bit from time to time, but it was on a continuous drop. It's kinda sad, really, because I really loved the high points of the story, it was great, and while the chraracter weren't really all that inspired design-wise (not helped by the fact they had standardised clothing), they we're fun and had interesting interractions. A different viewpoint would have also been interesting, but honestly it would still feel unneeded. This thread is kinga getting all over the place <_< sorry for having kinda hijacked it somehow |
LordFartdinkleMar 31, 2018 9:02 PM
| Yes, every planner needs strategy. It goes the same way with authors or directors. They have to organized all of pieces in the story to make it entertaining to watch or read. Conflict, essence, main story, development, climax till sollution needs to be in one package before they started the whole part, and that is the writing part. If they got ideas while working on it then they have to balanced it well with the story that already been organized |
| It'll work well if you start becoming a mangaka. I'll cheer on you in the sidelines while bashing your work on the internet. |
ChibiRico8 said: Sakura was such a wasted character... Even her actual good moments were because of someone else, like when she defeated Sasori, she was literaly someone's puppet and would probably not have defeated him if she wasn't controlled by granny what's-her-face. But to be fair, many mangakas have trouble figuring out how to create good female characters, for instance, Akira Torimaya often said he had no idea how to do women. I don't see how so many creators have issue with females characters, it shouldn't be that hard. I used to make girls all the time when I was on RP boards and nobody ever suspected I was in fact a dude. Like, don't create a character and then add a personality, starts with the personality and THEN had a gender, that way there really shouldn't be an issue, but I kinda got sidetracked here... Anyway... Fair enough xD Especially with the (very) crap-tacular ending the manga had. Haven't read all of it but went ahead and read the ending. Could not have been more dissapointed xD It's funny you should say that because I saw a very interesting video a long time ago, where the guy was explaining what went wrong with Bleach and what caused its downfall, it was extremely well documented with actual sales chart for the mangas all around the globe and stuff like that. The very moment the manga was supposed to/and should have ended was where it started going downhill. It came up a bit from time to time, but it was on a continuous drop. It's kinda sad, really, because I really loved the high points of the story, it was great, and while the chraracter weren't really all that inspired design-wise (not helped by the fact they had standardised clothing), they we're fun and had interesting interractions. A different viewpoint would have also been interesting, but honestly it would still feel unneeded. This thread is kinda getting all over the place <_< sorry for having kinda hijacked it somehow  Females seem to be hard to write for some reason. Even to other women I perceive. There's just a layer or two extra of what femininity traits to have and how BEING female in fact effects them, which isn't needed and maybe shouldn't be written by writers who have no tact. What I find from the major shounen writers even some of my favorites who do write women very well, is that, women hardly take up big significant roles outside of a love interest. Which is sad because that is not what they're for and should be interesting to inflict that chemistry with the two characters. I'm not asking for main character status, despite the fact that the main heroine takes up commercial interest as being a "main character" but is relegated to the side character status. /sigh Kishi consulted his wife on stuff like feelings on being a mother when he was writing Kushina but maybe he should've consulted her the entire time because Kushina is probably one of the better females and she isn't even really in the story all that much. Oh well..... I was very interested in Bleach (I still want to revisit it and it's ....... 74 volumes) more on an aesthetic and premise type trial in the beginning but nonetheless it's sad that Kubo just can't keep up a thread of structure in his stories. I've watched a lot of stuff about it's downfall, from fans and nonfans and it just amounts to nothing from the beginning is really used to tie up the ending, especially since Ichigo's qualms about his dead mom and other stuff was wrapped up in the beginning for the most part and that was all he had; other then finding out he was a quincy hollow soul reaper THE WHOLE TIME. If maybe this was somewhat implied in the beginning and not pulled out of a shock jar, maybe I could've bought it. no no, take it over, it's fun. |
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Stripes said: Kishi consulted his wife on stuff like feelings on being a mother when he was writing Kushina but maybe he should've consulted her the entire time because Kushina is probably one of the better females and she isn't even really in the story all that much. Oh well..... other then finding out he was a quincy hollow soul reaper THE WHOLE TIME. Another reason why I'm starting to like G.R.R.M. more and more xD It's true he does have interesting female characters, and while G.o.t. has a shit ton of sexual stuff in it, it's not that ''main'' goal about most of these women. Yeah, from what I've seen of Kushina she seems to be an interesting character, but I already had dropped Naruto at this point, and like you said she had barely any presence. I don't know about consulting his wife ALL the time, but asking for her opinions here and there definitely would have helped. Yeah but that's the thing ; this BS stuff is all over the place and almost non-sensical. Hey you lost power, oh noes. Wait nevermind, you got the back. And more. But you're not what you we're now, you're something else. Haha that was a joke, you're still that thing. YOU ARE EVERYTHING. I mean, at this point how does that even work? I'm feeling this wasn't planned at all (ah, getting back on topic!) and that really should've been more taught of/planned in advance, along many other things. Oh well, can't do much about it. |
| Editor san is super scary, as you could have most of your story planned out, but suddenly... your draft is rejected. You begin to inquire the reason why, and maybe the editor gives the reason the scene that was supposed to become a major plot point in your story is just too convoluted and strays too far from the target readers. As you begin to sweat through every pore of your body, you hear the doorbell ring, and it seems that deadline-san, your worst enemy, is here to visit. He sucker punches you in the stomach and spits on you, and goes on to tell you that there are 3 days left before you'll be eating his axe if you don't make the deadline. It's cold heavy voice sends shivers down your spine before you crumple on the floor helplessly. To stay warm you have to burn up all the notebooks containing your story ideas and your early drafts, but it isn't enough. You need something even hotter, something that will keep you warm from the harshness of the manga world. And as if a prayer has been answered, it descends from the heavens. You immediately use it and you feel much better, it was the most obvious solution from the start, the hottest thing in existence. My new mix tape. |
Kirbyzcheese said: Editor san is super scary, as you could have most of your story planned out, but suddenly... your draft is rejected. You begin to inquire the reason why, and maybe the editor gives the reason the scene that was supposed to become a major plot point in your story is just too convoluted and strays too far from the target readers. As you begin to sweat through every pore of your body, you hear the doorbell ring, and it seems that deadline-san, your worst enemy, is here to visit. He sucker punches you in the stomach and spits on you, and goes on to tell you that there are 3 days left before you'll be eating his axe if you don't make the deadline. It's cold heavy voice sends shivers down your spine before you crumple on the floor helplessly. To stay warm you have to burn up all the notebooks containing your story ideas and your early drafts, but it isn't enough. You need something even hotter, something that will keep you warm from the harshness of the manga world. And as if a prayer has been answered, it descends from the heavens. You immediately use it and you feel much better, it was the most obvious solution from the start, the hottest thing in existence. My new mix tape. 'Cause sometimes you just feel tired, you feel weak. And when you feel weak you feel like you want to just give up. But you gotta search within you, you gotta find that inner strength. And just pull that shit out of you and get that motivation to not give up. And not be a QUITTER. no matter how BAD you want to just fall flat on your face and collapse. |
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| Agreed. Outlining plots and stories, while reviewing each arcs in advance could help prevent any unwanted plot-holes or even wrong outcomes, or even plan ahead in case of bad things ahead. There are some mangaka however that writes by the seat of their pants, in which they just write whatever they want and went along as it goes. However, that may create several problems or even plot-holes that can be prevented if that particular mangaka had outlined everything earlier. Just my opinion though. |
| It's time to play the Game folks! |
| Yes. Because seeing the series is obviously getting dragged due to "sudden new ideas" is just a pain to see and usually it doesn't end in a good way. |
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