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Jul 3, 2016 1:53 AM
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Homura_ said:
Sadly, Naho's relationship with Suwa seems forced. If Kakeru was alive, of course she would have ended with him, even with that fight they had and even if she said she would still marry Suwa. It would have been better for Suwa to end up with someone else. Which can happen if Kakeru is saved. But after reading all those 19 chapters, probably he will not be saved since not everything can change. Plus him dying will have more of an emotional impact on the story. Also the author's other work, Yumemiru Taiyou has some similar relationships... Like the main couple has a forced relationship, there is again someone similar to Suwa and so on.
i don't really see where the forced relation is really i tried hard but no and i usually complain about forced realations
Jul 3, 2016 1:54 AM
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if something is closed to forced its kakeru but even so its still believable at some degree
Jul 3, 2016 1:58 AM

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The purpose of the letters was to stop the guy from dying. Their future selves valued his life more than whatever consequential differences in relationship that may occur.
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Jul 3, 2016 6:39 AM
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MortalMelancholy said:
The purpose of the letters was to stop the guy from dying. Their future selves valued his life more than whatever consequential differences in relationship that may occur.
i wonder why they value him so much since they barley knew him anyway the reason is obvious
Jul 3, 2016 10:33 PM

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Homura_ said:

Happily married, yet Suwa still tells his younger self to not be with Naho. I understand he does it to prevent from Kakeru dying but still. If he really loves Naho he can think of a plan where Kakeru is saved, yet himself ends up with her. I mean, is Kakeru dating Naho the only way to be saved?


Often times, in many situations we see love as satisfying your desire to give something to someone. Whether it be give yourself to someone, to be in a relationship, or even objects. Like a mother giving their beloved children gifts and spending so much time with them.

But love, I would like to argue, is also about sacrifice. Sometimes, I think the greatest act of love is sacrifice. A mother who sacrifices so much time she could be with her kids while she is single handily trying to feed her children, and give them clothes. A mother would sacrifice her life to save her children, even though some people may judge her and say it was selfish of her to give her life away. When she could've spent more time with them.

You can't tell her that it's not painful for that mother to work so hard and barely see her children. That she doesn't love her children enough. You can't tell Suwa his feelings weren't as genuine because he didn't act on his feelings. He didn't let them go either. He sacrificed his happiness in the future, because he prioritized her happiness, and that sacrifice is such an admirable, beautiful act of love. These are just my personal thoughts.
Jul 4, 2016 1:39 AM

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Gal3riel said:
I mean Naho in the future regrets not being with Kakeru (some lines in the manga makes me think like that), even after having a baby with Suwa, she wants to change the past, which is way too cruel. Suwa is the ONE who saved her heart, its like she regrets being with Suwa. This is like a dagger in a heart. Poor Suwa. If the synopsis was different I might have loved this manga but with something being like this, I just can't stand it! It's disgusting! But I want to believe she ends up with Suwa because it's their destiny. (I fixed your grammar, punctuation spelling, btw).


I know what you're feeling as well. But if you think about it, I don't think Suwa x Naho in the original universe in the future is forced. Why would Naho first off marry Suwa, second of all make a child with him? There's nothing forced with that. Naho chose Suwa in the original universe and that's fact. All Naho wants is have Kakeru here alive and happy. The same goes with all the others. Even with the ways Naho and Kakeru were going ever since the fight at the Fukashi Shine. I think Naho would've still ended up with Suwa in the orignal universe. Because, if you read the manga, Kakeru had already given up since he didn't mind Suwa going out with Naho and had already given up in life. But besides that point, I find it cruel that Kakeru had to suffer so much in the original universe. Having his mother pass away, having no one had to rely on and to force to commit suicide. That's what I found cruel about this book. In the alternate universe however, I also find it cruel that Suwa had to sacrifice his love to Naho despite having loved her so much. The letters may have influenced his decisions ultimately in the end. But, that's what makes his character so great, to be willing to sacrifice his love to save another person. But regardless, Naho would've still chosen Kakeru. It was inevitable for the start because she already had fallen for him. I honestly felt bad for both Kakeru and Suwa, as there was only one route to take. If I had to choose one route, I would take the alternate. As having the original being bitter and with the alternate being bittersweet. I would rather take the bittersweet route. The lesson I learned from this manga is: The greatest sacrifice is when you sacrifice your own happiness for the sake off someone else. This is what the message, the author wanted to convey.
_LorDNiCo_Jul 4, 2016 2:32 AM
Jul 4, 2016 9:03 AM
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EarlCiel said:
Homura_ said:

Happily married, yet Suwa still tells his younger self to not be with Naho. I understand he does it to prevent from Kakeru dying but still. If he really loves Naho he can think of a plan where Kakeru is saved, yet himself ends up with her. I mean, is Kakeru dating Naho the only way to be saved?


Often times, in many situations we see love as satisfying your desire to give something to someone. Whether it be give yourself to someone, to be in a relationship, or even objects. Like a mother giving their beloved children gifts and spending so much time with them.

But love, I would like to argue, is also about sacrifice. Sometimes, I think the greatest act of love is sacrifice. A mother who sacrifices so much time she could be with her kids while she is single handily trying to feed her children, and give them clothes. A mother would sacrifice her life to save her children, even though some people may judge her and say it was selfish of her to give her life away. When she could've spent more time with them.

You can't tell her that it's not painful for that mother to work so hard and barely see her children. That she doesn't love her children enough. You can't tell Suwa his feelings weren't as genuine because he didn't act on his feelings. He didn't let them go either. He sacrificed his happiness in the future, because he prioritized her happiness, and that sacrifice is such an admirable, beautiful act of love. These are just my personal thoughts.
_LorDNiCo_ said:
Gal3riel said:
I mean Naho in the future regrets not being with Kakeru (some lines in the manga makes me think like that), even after having a baby with Suwa, she wants to change the past, which is way too cruel. Suwa is the ONE who saved her heart, its like she regrets being with Suwa. This is like a dagger in a heart. Poor Suwa. If the synopsis was different I might have loved this manga but with something being like this, I just can't stand it! It's disgusting! But I want to believe she ends up with Suwa because it's their destiny. (I fixed your grammar, punctuation spelling, btw).


I know what you're feeling as well. But if you think about it, I don't think Suwa x Naho in the original universe in the future is forced. Why would Naho first off marry Suwa, second of all make a child with him? There's nothing forced with that. Naho chose Suwa in the original universe and that's fact. All Naho wants is have Kakeru here alive and happy. The same goes with all the others. Even with the ways Naho and Kakeru were going ever since the fight at the Fukashi Shine. I think Naho would've still ended up with Suwa in the orignal universe. Because, if you read the manga, Kakeru had already given up since he didn't mind Suwa going out with Naho and had already given up in life. But besides that point, I find it cruel that Kakeru had to suffer so much in the original universe. Having his mother pass away, having no one had to rely on and to force to commit suicide. That's what I found cruel about this book. In the alternate universe however, I also find it cruel that Suwa had to sacrifice his love to Naho despite having loved her so much. The letters may have influenced his decisions ultimately in the end. But, that's what makes his character so great, to be willing to sacrifice his love to save another person. But regardless, Naho would've still chosen Kakeru. It was inevitable for the start because she already had fallen for him. I honestly felt bad for both Kakeru and Suwa, as there was only one route to take. If I had to choose one route, I would take the alternate. As having the original being bitter and with the alternate being bittersweet. I would rather take the bittersweet route. The lesson I learned from this manga is: The greatest sacrifice is when you sacrifice your own happiness for the sake off someone else. This is what the message, the author wanted to convey.

FIRST i understand and i'm ok with this kind of thinking both of you but
.
""The greatest sacrifice is when you sacrifice your own happiness for the sake off someone else"""
.
i'm the type of person that won't sacrifice my happiness for others except maybe if i find someone i truly like but that doesn't mean i would give up if i can have her even if she likes someone else, of course if i can't have her i won't lie to myself telling me i'm happy if shes happy i would try my hardest to forget and go on, i believe in our hearts we all are selfish/egoist more than altruists but sometimes we just have to give up..well now i do understand the want to save him but i never understood why they care so much about him anyway the ending is kind of open so its not clear how things will go on..sorry about my writing XD
Jul 4, 2016 1:22 PM

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Gal3riel said:

FIRST i understand and i'm ok with this kind of thinking both of you but
.
""The greatest sacrifice is when you sacrifice your own happiness for the sake off someone else"""
.
i'm the type of person that won't sacrifice my happiness for others except maybe if i find someone i truly like but that doesn't mean i would give up if i can have her even if she likes someone else, of course if i can't have her i won't lie to myself telling me i'm happy if shes happy i would try my hardest to forget and go on, i believe in our hearts we all are selfish/egoist more than altruists but sometimes we just have to give up..well now i do understand the want to save him but i never understood why they care so much about him anyway the ending is kind of open so its not clear how things will go on..sorry about my writing XD


If you were in history class and learned about Thomas Hobbes, then you'll know that humans are naturally selfish in nature. And, that it's a true statement. By the way, Suwa had many chances to tell Naho how he felt about her. Asuza, Chino, Hagita and even Kakeru questioned him and that he should confess his feelings to Naho. But, he selfishly sacrificed his own love just to make Naho and Kakaru happy together. I get where you're coming from but it's Suwa fault for not confessing feelings to Naho. It sounds cruel, but that reality for you. If you let the girl that you love hanging, some other guy is going to take her. But, it was already inevitable from the start (like I said in my previous statement) anyways since Naho had already fallen for Kakeru at the start. Also, the letters didn't say Suwa could hold back his feelings for Naho nor did the letters say they couldn't be together. That would be downright cruel. Lastly, I don't mind about your writing at all! Just make sure it's readable. :D
Jul 4, 2016 1:36 PM
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626
_LorDNiCo_ said:
Gal3riel said:

FIRST i understand and i'm ok with this kind of thinking both of you but
.
""The greatest sacrifice is when you sacrifice your own happiness for the sake off someone else"""
.
i'm the type of person that won't sacrifice my happiness for others except maybe if i find someone i truly like but that doesn't mean i would give up if i can have her even if she likes someone else, of course if i can't have her i won't lie to myself telling me i'm happy if shes happy i would try my hardest to forget and go on, i believe in our hearts we all are selfish/egoist more than altruists but sometimes we just have to give up..well now i do understand the want to save him but i never understood why they care so much about him anyway the ending is kind of open so its not clear how things will go on..sorry about my writing XD


If you were in history class and learned about Thomas Hobbes, then you'll know that humans are naturally selfish in nature. And, that it's a true statement. By the way, Suwa had many chances to tell Naho how he felt about her. Asuza, Chino, Hagita and even Kakeru questioned him and that he should confess his feelings to Naho. But, he selfishly sacrificed his own love just to make Naho and Kakaru happy together. I get where you're coming from but it's Suwa fault for not confessing feelings to Naho. It sounds cruel, but that reality for you. If you let the girl that you love hanging, some other guy is going to take her. But, it was already inevitable from the start (like I said in my previous statement) anyways since Naho had already fallen for Kakeru at the start. Also, the letters didn't say Suwa could hold back his feelings for Naho nor did the letters say they couldn't be together. That would be downright cruel. Lastly, I don't mind about your writing at all! Just make sure it's readable. :D
well i do remember in the last chapters that suwa did not act when he had the chance but i never recall something in the begging that could have pointed to him being ok with this (i mean him in the future first chapters). still i find it odd how naho fell in love with kakeru so hard all those big connections seem like coming from nowhere...
" he selfishly sacrificed his own love just to make Naho and Kakaru happy together" he might have thought kakeru would die but also its possible his feelings were so developed maybe...
Gal3rielJul 4, 2016 1:41 PM
Dec 17, 2017 12:05 PM

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Gal3riel said:
i mean naho in the future regrets not being with kakeru (some lines in the manga makes me think like that) even after having a baby with suwa and she wants to change the past, way to cruel for her doing it to the ONE who saved her heart


The manga did its damage to me when I read it when it was ongoing. I have read a similar story to this one where a group of friends were given a chance to change the future to save one of their friends in the past. However, the characters in that story, although are extremely flawed (which only makes them more human imho), behaved more normally than those in Orange. The difference is, the characters retained the memories of their future selves.

As a matter of fact one of the main female characters who I initially considered to be annoying for not being cooperative to change the future to save her friend's life turned out to be far more realistic because of the boy she had in the future. I felt it was more realistic for a mother to act like that unlike Naho. That character said she wouldn't trade the whole world for the boy she gave birth to in the future and just the thought of not being able to see her boy in the future made her go cynical and claim she couldn't care less about saving the life of the friend if it meant altering the future where she might not see her boy again. Unlike Naho, that character seemed far more realistic because that's how mothers are. I think the author of Orange never really considered how a mother would react in a situation that she created through her story.

Tbh, I liked neither Kakeru, nor Naho (because of her future self and making that cruel decision).

I was just reading a recent review on the anime version of orange so I thought I would share my thoughts after all these times as I stumbled upon this thread.
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Feb 2, 2018 1:00 AM

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After reading the manga and then watching the anime I've rethought my view on it. Naho x Kakeru's relationship isn't healthy. Naho spends the whole time walking on eggshells as to not say anything 'wrong'. In the end she's even quoted saying "I will save you time and time again" which is sweet but from here on out Kakeru needs to learn to save himself. Plus he was downright rude to her at times. What type of relationship is it if he's always going to rely on her to say the 'right' thing or else he'll kill himself? Still, I liked that this touched on the subject of suicide. Suwa is the healthier choice for Naho but can't most people relate to being madly in-love with a person who didn't treat them right? The heart wants what it wants. Maybe it is wiser to go with the person who will treat you well. Bittersweet food for thought. Mirai should be interesting.
Apr 5, 2018 12:46 AM
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What do you expect? its a well disguised NTR series.

And BTW Suwa deserves someone way better than all those dipshits.
Ozy94Apr 5, 2018 9:47 AM
Jan 14, 2021 7:06 AM
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Jan 2021
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The plot of this manga is so wrong. Yes it's admirable to sacrifice your happiness to save your friend, but not in the cost of other lives. To save Kakeru, his friends created a whole new timeline by making impact to a different universe. They have no right to do that, because it would later (with great possibility) prevent many people from being born as they supposed to be (Just like Suwa and Naho's children, their grandchildren - and people who can be saved by them if they exist, etc.). Considering the butterfly effect, they did twist a whole universe. That's absolutely most serious crime that a person can dream to commit.

I have a child myself, and I would never sacrifice my child's life to relieve my regrets in the past. Never, even in a parallel universe. I would not ever consider to do that, as a parent - just like I have no right to do that, as a human. I really can not understand Suwa and Naho deeds as parents. They are so cruel.
emperortanJan 14, 2021 7:19 AM
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