No Matter How I Look at It, It's You Guys' Fault I'm Not Popular!
How would you classify Watamote? (in terms of its world view)
| This post by tcfenstermaker looks interesting enough for a separate thread: It strikes me that this is a very un-anime-like anime. Just look at a lot of the comments here: "When is she going to grow?" "Something good has to happen, right?" Awkward high school students are a staple of anime. But they grow and become loved as they are. That is a hallmark of the slice-of-life genre. This, though, is very ... western ... in its cynicism. This could very easily be aired on the Cartoon Network right after Regular Show. So if this really is not being well-received in Japan, I'm guessing that's why. Being "cynical" means believing that people are motivated only by self-interest and being distrustful of human sincerity or integrity. Some words similar to "cynical" are: contemptuous, derisive, ironic, mocking, pessimistic, sarcastic, scornful, skeptical, suspicious, unbelieving and lacking values. Some words that are roughly opposite to "cynical" are: believing, hopeful, optimistic, trusting, having values. Here are some examples of western cartoon series that might be cynical: The Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park, Archer, American Dad, Futurama (in other words, all of them, basically) In this respect, is Watamote similar to western cartoons? |
okanaganAug 7, 2013 3:45 AM
| I'm not sure I follow here, but how does being cynical relate to whether the characters actually progress though a certain plot or story to where they actually somewhat change themselves? If that is the case and we're comparing Western animations to Japanese anime by whether characters actually go through a certain plot, then as ravagestorm said there are plenty like that in Japan... But if we're just talking about whether Watamote is very "un-animelike" because it is cynical, I disagree. That statement doesn't even make sense considering that your definition of anime could be subjective and different if you think that every anime out there is very happy-go-lucky or in your typical slice of life genre.. I'd also think that a lot of people are asking when she is going to grow up etc. because they were expecting something entirely different. |
SacredFactorAug 8, 2013 10:17 PM
| hmm... I think you're unto something here... But I imaged it differently, I imagined this series as a "bite" on the typical moeblob anime... the anime even references it at one point. It is not necessarily associated with American cartoons at all. |
| I haven't seen a series which did exactly this. In a way it seems like it's just a unending cycle of finding hope, losing hope and waking up the next dat to do it again. In a way I get the thought behind relating it with the never ending Western Cynical shows. tcfenstermaker said: This, though, is very ... western ... in its cynicism. I agree. I'm not that familliar with all these shows, so my opinion is probably based on a small amount of anime out there. |
| Tsuyuu said: I imagined this series as a "bite" on the typical moeblob anime... the anime even references it at one point. You could be right. At 17:43 in Episode 2, while Tomoko and Yuu-chan are sitting in the cafe, they have this conversation: Y: So, do you still watch anime and stuff? T: Huh? Y-yeah, I guess... Y: Really? That's great! I don't have anyone else I can talk about that stuff with. . . Have you seen any good ones lately? T: There are a lot of anime aimed at moe pigs this season. Y: Really? T: I hear they can only make slice-of-life anime because regulations are so strict . . now. There is a similar conversation in the manga in Chapter 3, Page 6. But Tomoko doesn't say "aimed at moe pigs". Definitely, it seems to me that this is fourth- wall humor where the anime is taking a direct shot at other anime series which are directed at viewers who enjoy moe characters. Tomoko actually uses the phrase "moebuta" (萌え豚) which translates as "moe pig". Traditionally, we have called such people "moe fanboys" and so on. Personally, I hope that the term "moe pig" will catch on with English-speaking anime fans since it is neither sexist nor homophobic. It is not necessarily associated with American cartoons at all. Right. This is a Japanese story and it makes no reference to the world outside of Japan. For that matter, it doesn't go beyond the Tokyo region. Also, Watamote has nowhere near the cynicism of South Park where the message seems to be that all ideals are meaningless. South Park believes in nothing. However, I think that the worldview in Japan was strongly affected by the March 11th, 2011 disasters. I think this has made them lose faith in their government and their image of Japan as a safe, clean place. And of course, Japan has big problems with its economy. So maybe now people are feeling depressed and some might be in the mood for watching an anime where the main character is a somewhat-deluded perverted morally-flawed negative-thinking unpopular girl rather than a stereotypical picture-perfect K-On clone. |
ravagestorm said: No. There is too much assumption in your post. It is much safer to assume that Watamote was conceived because girl otaku specifically the fujoshi type is becoming a norm in Japan. You guys must have noticed this already but the fujoshi market is literally growing every year to the point where there is a day in Comiket where majority of doujinshis are for girls. Also a popular otaku manga like Genshiken immediately turned into a fujoshi-centric story why? Because fujoshi is the new market. This. |
| I think the issue is people are approaching this like it's a school drama where the characters should grow and there should be clear plot progression when it's really just episodic cringe comedy. It's easy to feel sorry for her and want her to catch a break, but I'd rather it continue to be really funny than throw in half-assed development and ruin the comedy. |
| I think it's cynical compared to a lot of high school anime that like to sugarcoat and idealize everything there is about the life of being a high school student in present day Japan. In some ways it's kind of a breath of fresh air as far as high school comedies go cause I'm still just so weary of those kinds of shows even if the ratio of them to everything else isn't quite as disproportionate as it was towards the end of the decade. |
okanagan said: A bit tangential, but I think this is a gross mischaracterization of South Park. The message is less "all ideals are meaningless" and more "no ideal [or indeed, nothing and nobody] is beyond ridicule". And while the creators' viewpoints don't fit neatly under any label, they certainly do have beliefs and are actually somewhat notoriously preachy about them (they even poke fun at that tendency of theirs themselves in the episode Cartoon Wars Part I). Some say the show's underlying philosophy is moderate libertarianism, others say that it's the Golden Mean Fallacy played painfully straight.Also, Watamote has nowhere near the cynicism of South Park where the message seems to be that all ideals are meaningless. South Park believes in nothing. |
ryokutya said: I don't think watamote is a rare manga. Every year, at least 10,000 titles of different manga compilations are published in Japan. You should read more manga if you want say "This manga is not japanese style" or like that. I have similar feelings. There are so many outlandish manga out there. Homunculus comes out as one for example. Also, Gintama is closer to Futurama and Simpsons than this series. |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
| I think you're making this out to be more complicated than it actually is. Watamote is about Tomoko, who has severe social anxiety coupled with unrealistic views of what should be happening to her and feelings of resentment toward those who have what she thinks she should have. That's a lot to overcome. Social anxiety alone is often a vicious cycle type of thing, and it can be unbelievably difficult to break out of. I think the perceived cynicism is more likely just the result of Tomoko struggling and struggling and struggling with great effort to muck through all her internal issues. It's painstaking for her to make even the slightest progress. Because it's so hard for her, at times she views people who have seemed to so effortlessly obtain what she cannot, despite her best efforts (well, best to her deluded mind, anyway), with great resentment. This resentful negativity and pessimism is what people are thinking is cynical, but it seems to me to be nothing more and nothing less than a product of her struggles. |
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